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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura- Thanks for letting us know about UKgirl.
I will be keeping her in my thoughts and prayers.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl: I am so sorry for your loss. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 1:39 PM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((ukgirl)))))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:45 PM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((UKGirl))


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
anewhaven
♀ Member
Member # 34246
Default  Posted: 6:44 PM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm so sorry, UKGirl. You were the first person to greet me here, and I haven't forgotten your kindness.

Posts: 68 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: USA
forgivenotforget
♀ Member
Member # 11053
Default  Posted: 7:36 PM, May 25th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sending hugs to you UKG. I am so sorry to hear about your mother's passing. I hope it helps to know so many of us here care about you and hope the memories of your wonderful mother bring you the comfort you need and deserve.
(((((((((UKG)))))))))


D-day - 12/23/05 LTA - 8 years.
"Love's a matter of trust and I just want to believe in us." M McBride

Posts: 1901 | Registered: Jun 2006 | From: A tunnel where I'm beginning to see the light
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 7:24 PM, May 27th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl,
Love and hugs from your tribe.
I am so sorry for your loss.
XOXO - Nell


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 4:46 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

HUGS friends

Checking in:

Have made it past 3 years

21st May - mum died. 3 years ago I called FWH to come to be with me at the hospital because she was dying. He said he couldn't get there. Had something else he had to do. I found out later it was because OW3 wanted him to come screw her. (A week or so after dday I heard him on the VAR laughing with her on the phone about it).

26th May - Mum's funeral 2pm . He was pissed at me that morning because I became upset when he told me at about 10am that he had invited his nephew to come to our home for lunch with his new girlfriend. He was pissed off because I told him to phone his nephew and cancel. I couldn't understand why he would do that????

28th May - Dday

Yes I am still pissed off.

As UK said some time ago "I stay with him because it suits me and I like him well enough" (or something like that).

My DS22 has a serious life-threatening illness and major depression. He can't take ADs because they make him manic and suicidal. I need to hold it together for him.

On the 21st May this year FWH said nothing about the anni of my mum's death. (She thought the sun shined out of him and treated him that way). A day or two later I asked him if he had forgotten. He said "No I remembered, but I didn't get around to saying anything". (Something killed two of his prize FDs (fucking ducks for the newbies) that day and he was in a state so I guess that's why it slipped his mind).

So I am staying. He hasn't really stepped up in the way I needed and I know that. I have accepted that. I can't see him ever doing that.

I now realise that for most of our M he used me. In every way.

So now I am using him.

I will stay because it suits me. Because I need him sometimes when things are bad with DS. Not because I love him.

I have given up on ever seeing real remorse.

But you know what? I am OK. I really am. I haven't shed a single tear today and don't plan to.


HUGS

Laura

ETA: My SIL who doesn't know posted this on FB tonight. How apt!!! I am actually a really nice lady. I really am. My students love me and I will walk across hot coals for people. But cross me and I am a vindictive bitch!!! Vent over.


[This message edited by Laura28 at 5:34 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:22 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura-
I'm so sorry.I did not remember the story about your mom.

The thing with WS is that when they are in the middle of their acting out and cheating it is like a drug for them.

Nothing takes precedence.

They are often very selfish and detached from their family and from real life.

The key to successful reconciliation and healing is what the WS does after d-day.

The WS has to be remorseful and willing to do the work.

I have always believed that IC for the WS is crucial.

Ending the affair or in your FWH's case ending the philandering is simply not enough.

I have compared it to a 'dry drunk'-an alcoholic who stops drinking but doe nothing to work on all of the internal issues that brought him/her to that place.

I have read on SI that there are some instances where the WS has made a big turn around without IC.

But, in my husband's case intensive IC and AA meetings for the years following d-day were crucial.

Are the WS narcissists?

What you are describing of your FWH sounds like that.

I know my FWH was exhibiting very selfish and narcissistic traits during our marriage.

He is not that way today.

I credit the shock of d-day with waking him up.

I also credit the intense therapy that he got after d-day.

I think it opened his eyes to make him realize that there is a different way to live his life.
He had been incredibly selfish in many ways before this epiphany.He is not that way now.

And the side benefit to him is that he is a much much happier man.
He has finally figured out the secret to true happiness and realized it was not in a mind altering substance, it was not found in alcohol or in degrading sexual encounters with the MOW.
He found happiness and peace when he started doing for others.
He now puts other people first.
He does not focus on his own selfish needs.

It took him 55 yrs to get there.
It sometimes makes me sad to think about how many years he had wasted.

But, when my mind goes there I say to myself "that was then this is now".

I'm grateful that he finally figured things out.
Our marriage is really good now. So is our family life.

Is there any way that you could get your FWH to go to counseling?



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi NJ

Thanks for your thoughts.

I know my FWH was exhibiting very selfish and narcissistic traits during our marriage.

Yes. That was mine. When I look back it is quite scary.

He is not that way today.

I wish I could say this. But over and over he proves he has changed very little.

I also credit the intense therapy that he got after d-day.

I begged him for months to see someone. Finally he did. He went twice.. Then he came home and told me that she said he was doing really well and didn't need to come back.

I was horrified. I said "You have got to be kidding. She's obviously useless. We'll have to find someone else". His response. "No. I'm fine. I know what I did and I will never do it again." He has refused since saying it is a waste of time and money.

I had EMDR. It helped me a lot. I started to sleep a little and the mind movies and meltdowns abated. Again I know he thought "Now everything will be OK".

He found happiness and peace when he started doing for others.
He now puts other people first.
He does not focus on his own selfish needs.

I wish I could say this but I can't.

"that was then this is now".

I truly am happy for you. 3 years ago I really thought maybe... maybe there was a chance. Maybe we could be like you and your FWH. I have put 100% into trying with him but I have come to realise that it won't happen. I have to face the fact that no amount of trying will work.

Many years ago when we first had problems I kept thinking if I just tried a little harder things would get better. But they didn't. I kept trying and hoping. For 28 years. Then when I found out about his LTAs I kept trying and hoping - it was hard wired into me.

I am coming to realise that the man I thought I married didn't exist and never has.

Maybe he is NPD. Maybe he is SA. Maybe he is a fuckwit. Maybe he is just plain selfish. Frankly I don't care what label he has. Every day he makes choices and they are about him. Not about US.

It has taken me 3 years to realise that no amount of trying and hoping is enough. Yes he is faithful - I am 99% sure. I actually wonder sometimes if his fidelity is more about keeping his cushy life than me.

As for how I feel - He doesn't get it. He doesn't listen. I actually don't think he cares so long as he has a peaceful life.

I have told him repeatedly what I need and he says all the right things one day and then does nothing the next.

He is a fool.

So. I will stay with him. Not for him. Not for us. For me. I have accepted my sich.

I guess I can now join UK and miracle and nofun.

I think I am OK. I really do.

I still get sad and angry at times but I HAVE to stop trying.

I have repeatedly told him what I need. I have been patient.

It is killing me waiting for him to get it. Trying and waiting day after day is just too hard. I have to stop.

I have to stop hoping. It is too hard. It is too fucking hard.

___________________________________________


Sorry for the long rant. I didn't expect it to go this way.

I actually considered deleting most of this but then realised that maybe my thoughts can help someone.

Every now and then when the lurkers appear I wonder about their stories.

Maybe there are more like me than we realise.

Maybe there are others who don't post because they feel like me and worry that they shouldn't post their negative feelings.

Most of those who post regularly on LTA are trying to recover their Ms. Not all. But most.

I wonder how many there are out there who like me have given up. Who stay with their FWSs because they have nowhere better to be.

I am not afraid of being alone.

I just choose not to be.

I know I could find someone else but I can't be bothered.

My FWH is a fool.

HUGS to everyone

Laura



Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Laura28, I love the wet cat picture and caption.

Maybe he is NPD. Maybe he is SA. Maybe he is a fuckwit.

,I know you were not trying to be funny, but this line just made me chuckle. So many BSs search for the explanation of the WS behavior, The Fog, SA, FOO, chipped fingernail, when often the reality is the WS is a selfish and self-centered person.

btw, OZ doesn't look THAT big on the map, do you ever run into Deeppurple? Wondering how he is doing.

Yes he is faithful - I am 99% sure. I actually wonder sometimes if his fidelity is more about keeping his cushy life than me.

As for how I feel - He doesn't get it. He doesn't listen. I actually don't think he cares so long as he has a peaceful life.

I felt this a lot (about my FWW, not your FWH), and still can end up there. How do you assess if a WS is staying because he or she truly wants the relationship with you, or if you are simply the path of least resistance for him or her?

I guess I can now join UK and miracle and nofun.

This is kind of sad; you are such a beautiful person. So long as it is what you CHOOSE and not just ACCEPT, best wishes.

There was a break-through of sorts in the Ats house this last weekend; we had sex while the sun was still up! I cannot remember the last time sex was not the last thing after a long day before going to sleep.

--Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:26 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((UKGirl))) Sorry for your loss.


(((Laura))) Thanks for posting Laura. I know I have gained a lot reading about others experiences. You have a lot of stuff going on. I wish you the best with your son.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1573 | Registered: May 2011
DecimatedHeart
♀ Member
Member # 37657
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry I have been MIA. Honestly, I've been so depressed that I couldn't bear to go on this site.

h&c - You have a PM.

ats -- YAY to daytime sex lol. I joked with WH the other day that I wasn't getting laid - the least he could do was the guy thing and kill the nasty spider on the wall.

((UK Girl)) and ((tribe))

As for me... WH and I had a big blowup over the weekend that had been building for a while. He told DD that he wasn't talking to OP anymore, then got pissed at me when I asked if it was true (it wasn't).

He doesn't want me to leave, says he loves me, admits he is not treating me fairly but won't quit talking to her. Expects me to not talk about affair and not get upset that he is still talking to her, and not get upset that he treats me with absolute apathy and even contempt while he is 'trying to figure things out' and 'trying not to be done.' I asked him what OP thought the future of my family looked like, and he said she thinks he'll never leave me and DD and eventually he will leave her and make me happy. That she tells him to be with me - to 'fake it till you make it', but then gets angry and still has hope they will end up together. I asked him if he gives her reason for hope and he said 'yes, probably, the same way I do you.' I told him that I don't know OP, I don't like OP, and that I will never think of OP as anything other than a homewrecker and a cumdumpster, but that what he is doing to her isn't fair, that what he is doing to me isn't fair. THAT is when he started crying. I told him that as much as I want to hate him, I still love him and believe we can make it, but we will never make it as long as we're in limbo this way. I told him that I would rather be alone than have him by my side when he is still talking to her. That I realized the other day that my goal in life isn't even to be happy anymore, it's just to not hurt anymore, and that's really pathetic. I don't know what it's like to be alone, but I have to believe it hurts less than this.

He goes to get a shower and I leave to meet a couple friends for lunch and I get three blocks down the street when my DD calls me crying that WH has locked himself in the bathroom, crying and banging on the tiles, won't answer her and she doesn't know what to do. I turn around and calm him down and calm her down and suggest we just play Skyrim (video game)and have a family day. Things went better after that, superficially anyway. He was affectionate and sweet and funny and we ended up having a good weekend for the most part. I broke down crying yesterday, just remembering happier times by the pool, and he hugged me until I calmed down. Last night he kissed me goodnight. I am going for more testing today on my health issues and he sent me several texts to not worry, that it'll be okay.

I am trying to not take the bait, not hope. I told him over the weekend that I was looking for a house, looking for a job, and was planning on ordering a dumpster because if we were breaking up we had a lot of stuff to go through. That seemed to bother him. He said not to do that, not to think like that. I don't know what to think of it. Probably just more cake-eating, but I'm too stupid to quit loving him and walk away.

[This message edited by DecimatedHeart at 11:13 AM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Me, BS 41
Him WH 42 - LTA, EA/PA
Together 24 years
DD13 - the love of my life
DDay#1 11/10/2012
DDay#4 4/5/2013 (NC broken AGAIN)
A supposedly over 6/14/2013

All my posts are edited - I hate typos. :)


Posts: 129 | Registered: Nov 2012
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura,
I'm glad you're posting here again, my lovely. Your voice and your experiences are so valuable! You have no idea...

I am one whose WH never got it... kept secrets and avoided anything that he could do to fix his shizznit, and eventually I gave up and asked for a divorce. I was 39 and the boyos were 8 and 5. It was a little scary, but I had just had it by then... could not take it any longer. That was almost 2 years after DDay#1. It was the best decision I could have made, although it still makes me sad that the boyos have to be Children Of Divorce. But they are thriving and are happy and secure that both parents love them. They also like my SO and wholeheartedly accept mom having a boyfriend.

There is life after all this. Whether you stay married-but-separate, divorce or reconcile completely... things do get better.

ats,
I'm happy for you! Finally, sex is a priority!!!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:58 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura, thanks for posting your stuff. Thanks also for all the help you have provided to others. I understand your wanting to have hope. I wish there was something we could do for u.

D-Heart, your current situation reminded me of the cake-eating story of userID 'I Think I Can'. Read her profile. Though she is not religious from what I have gathered, she took a lot from the book "Love Must Be Tough." And your playing Skyrim? Again, I want to ask, are you some kind of dream-girl? Next you'll say that you like Halo... Anyways, we are all here to support you in whatever you CHOOSE to do. Obviously, the conventional wisdom here at SI says to throw the cake-eating jerk out, etc. But as you have read here at LTA, things are often not that easy.

As for me, I was a hero husband this weekend. And I am more than 1/2 way through the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy." It is an eye-opener.

-- Jack

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 12:24 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know what it's like to be alone, but I have to believe it hurts less than this.

DH, the above statement you made is true. It does hurt less. That was one of my big motivators for eventually filing. The thought of being alone and not married became less scarier than staying in my current situation at that time. Now I "live alone" in my house with my STBXWW. It sucked at first but it's pretty good now. It just takes time for you to get there and you will get there eventually. Continuing to throw the A in your face like your WH does eventually triggers the fight or flight response. He is committing emotional terrorism on you. Just keep focusing on you and your DD. I think you have a plan in place, so keep working it until you are ready to make a move. Everyone does what they can when they can.

You are already so much stronger than when you first arrived. I hope you realize that because it does show in your posts.

(((Decimatedheart)))


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1573 | Registered: May 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:30 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_J,

...1/2 way through the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy." It is an eye-opener

I too read that book. I do not thing I fit the definition of a "Nice-Guy", but there were certainly aspects of that applied.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura: So good to see you. It does really help when you post. You are absolutely right, there are lurkers out there that are really helped by reading other people's stories.
What you are describing about your M and your WH is something that a lot of us are starting to really face. We are forced to look at the reality of what the M really is (or has become) and how are WS's really are. The A is a horrible trauma but after the storm has receded and we access the damage we realize that there is only just so much we can do by ourselves. We can't fix it alone. We have to decide are we better off with them or without them?

Ats: Afternoon Delight?? Good for you!

DH: You are still recovering from the trauma. Your WH is still fence sitting and cake eating.
I am going through the exact same thing. WH calls OW all the time in front of me and then tells me how much he loves me and doesn't love her, but is only with her because of the OC's. Time and time again I buy it because I want to believe it sooooo badly and when reality smacks me in the face, when I see evidence to the contrary, I break down again.

I think that I am the one in
the fog.

But, DH, you need to have a consult with a lawyer. The consult is free. Get your bearings.

Step back and decide what YOU want. Forget about what WH is deciding or thinking about. Think about what YOU want. If you want the M, you know that there must be NC with the OW.

I know you know this deep down. You want him to choose you and DD, and he keeps giving you false hope.

YOU CHOOSE YOU and DD. Focus on what you need to do for yourself. Get yourself ready for anything.

Laura was right, reading someone else's posts helps. Reading your posts, DH, is like I, myself, am writing them. Any crumb that WH threw my way, I grabbed on to it with dear life. Any false hope I made it my lifeline, but reality kept raising its head.
Please don't sell your heart and soul like I'm doing.

You can do it on your own. You have been doing it already.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 3:03 PM, May 28th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 3:16 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell: so good to hear from you. I'm so glad that things are going well for you. I always have admired your strength to keep going and have a good new beginning.

7yrs: It's hard to face the idea of being alone. But then we realize that we really have been alone for a long time while our WS's were in a LTA. They may have been there physically, but not emotionally. We thought they were. It's hard to reconcile all these thoughts.

For me, I realize that I've been more or less alone most of my adult life. xWH#1 was never around, either working, playing softball or out drinking. I took the older DS's to amusement parks, movies, outings, their sports activities, etc etc alone. I more or less raised them alone. The same with current WH. He may have been there at times physically, but in reality, he wasn't with us. He was either on the phone with business or OW, or on the computer.

I'm tired of the blameshifting, TT, gaslighting, lying, emotional blackmail, and being used.

Everything changes, for the good or bad. Trying to keep the house at the expense of my sanity, emotional well being and my very heart and soul is not worth it.

I started going on with the "what ifs". (I guess that is a bargaining stage?)When a very wise and wonderful friend told me something to the effect of: you have to live in the right now, or else in the future you would be looking back to today and then you would be doing the "what ifs" for what is going on right now.

Very profound.

I can't change the past. Yes, we can look at it for a while, learn from mistakes, but we can't overanalyze it to death and dwell there.

We have to look at what our M's are now. Can they be fixed? But we can't do it alone. and if the WS is damaged, there is so little what we can do.

We have to decide what is the best for US. That's a hard thing to do for a lot of the BS's who have always given of themselves. We have to be the best we can be for ourselves.

Now, if I can only follow my own advice


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ats

I know you were not trying to be funny

In a twisted way honey I was. Part of my coping mechanism is being a little silly

more about keeping his cushy life.......I felt this a lot (about my FWW, not your FWH)

.....
we had sex while the sun was still up!

Well......Mmmmm....I don't know

As for DP. I am really worried. I pm'ed him ages ago and even phoned and texted with no response. I spoke to him 3 or 4 times IRL since his dday, the last time about a about a year ago, and although doing it tough I thought he seemed OK. I check daily but he hasn't opened my pm. Yes. I'm worried too.

Nell

There is life after all this. Whether you stay married-but-separate, divorce or reconcile completely... things do get better.

Yes sweetie. You are so right and YOU are living proof. It takes guts to get through this - and you have what it takes. Whenever I see Lisbeth I think of you!!!!

Thanks for the welcome back peeps.

Gotta go

BIG HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
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