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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:27 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hopeandchange
Yesterday, W shared her feelings as to how it is not fair.

She keeps saying she wants a D... My STRONG advice is for you to NEVER reward a closed off spouse. Sharing feelings is a reward. Attractive is a man who gives his woman what she wants.. She wants a D, give it to her. Keep the theme.. I am giving you what YOU want.. You decided to get your head 100% back in the marriage, No less, Only then will I talk. NO SEX.. YOU 180 her.. Go review it again. BE NICE but keep it all business right now. I say you do NO servicers for her. Let her get her own insurance.. She does not respect your blessings.. H&C.. I am for your M… I am not for you ending it. But it takes two.

H&C.. you must have confidence your life can be so much more rewarding. You know what you need right now… A date. Do you have a friend that knows a woman who you can just take out for a drink or something.. You are allowed to have a woman friend in your case. A woman who knows exactly your situation before you go and make it clear it will go nowhere..go have fun just talking… and not about your M… FOR YOU.


7 yrs..

WW also thinks we are and will remain best "buds" once she moves out

I had to laugh at that.. It was exactly something my W said to me.. My response.. “Are you fucking kidding me? I won’t want to have anything to do with you…” then she went off crying..


MC… Sometimes during an R, you can get in a very negative place. The M you can have can be very loving, caring, giving and intimate.. if you lead this R. I say you give your W a good chance to be far more open with you. You can lead her into being very open. It takes some actions by YOU. Her profession is high stress. She is not allowed to make a mistake. Somehow you need to figure out how when she comes home.. she is free, safe, away from work… The pressures of her job are left at work.. and home is comfort. Think about ways to make her feel safe in every aspect.. then there are things you can say to her, do to her, that might help her be more open and lower that steel curtain. More later brother.

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:29 PM, March 20th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Nomorethankyou
♀ Member
Member # 37591
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ok I'm back. And the kids(well some of them.. no telling with those teenagers) are asleep and the dog in his room.

So many of us in transition right now.

7 years flushed -- gosh I have gone through the entire gamut of parenting possiblities during the past 9 months. Originally, I wanted to be at the point where I treated him like everyone else in my life. I had this thing about not letting him control the kind of person I am BUT it is foolish to open yourself up to people who can not or will not reciprocate. It is being true to my sense of integrity and self worth to keep him at arms distance. He was clearly intent on keeping his life secret. I needed to begin to build some protective walls. We have tried being together for birthdays and then just coordinating gifts to now, just managing on our own.

I am not his friend -- we do not co-parent. I have rules at my house and budgets and chores and expectations and he has his. I was completely worked up too often about the way he was indulging some things (our finances were a mess -- he lost two jobs due to his affair and spent a year out of work, and the first 3 months of separation were spent without income...) so now boundaries are much more in place -- and it is great. I do not chit chat, frankly I'm pretty lax on the please and thank yous. I am sure I will soften but right now I ask for nothing, I have stated my expectations and I am much much more sane. That said.... my wh has no problem disregarding all the rules and showing up and using the house etc... when I am not around. In fact, he spent about three weeks basically rubbing his control in my face because I dropped him from one of our two joint credit cards. Self protect. I have a great lawyer and therapist and I must pick my battles. I am finding I care less and less.

It makes me wonder, if that is how he felt during the affair. (or ongoing affair, who knows??)

Miracle -- that is a heartbreaking story. And actually even knowing how little respect I have for him. I know without doubt that he would be at his child's side (to be tested this summer as our soon to be 16 year old son is to have back surgery) Of course, we will always but the kids first -- it is in the day to day stuff where we sometimes fail. Especially with teenagers who know so much and spew their version of their pain on whichever parent is nearby. I am horrified to say I have failed TOO many times lately with holding my tongue with my 17 year old daughter.

I am investigating family therapists but great resistance from the kids

Anyone have experience getting reluctant teens to counseling? Or group family therapy?


Me BW, 48
Him WH, 48
5 children. Girl (17), Boys (15,14,12,9)
Married 20 years, LTA 3.5-4 years
DD1 3/19/11
DD2. 10/02/11
DD3. 7/03/12 separated that night.
OW. Ugly girl.

There are no shortcuts.


Posts: 107 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: North Carolina
iwantamiracle
♀ Member
Member # 22812
Default  Posted: 10:22 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thankyou: as heartbreaking as it is, is as heartwarming as it is!!!...my heart hurts for that childs pain, the torture for her and her mom til she arrived there....but and its a BIG BIG BUT....last year another kid who lived on my block, 22 years old.....took a bus because he was drinking, only to get off the bus and get hit by a car and was killed instantly...

SOOOO....we are SOOOO grateful that THIS child will be ok....she is fixable...


as for co-parenting...i can understand that...and for these 2 people, they do things completely differently, dad is there but not there on a deep emotional level....i could literally go on and on.....but the bottom line is that the 2 of them when push comes to shove are there TOGETHER as a unified front for all the big stuff....that phrase comes to mind..."don't sweat the small stuff".....and its so true....all the "other" stuff is just that...stuff.....years later, none of that matters...what she will remember is that mom and dad came together for every occasion, happy, sad and major and stood together for their kid....whether it is a birthday party, graduation or getting hit by a car!!! she knows that mom and dad will always be there for her when it counts....

i am still living with my ws...plan to divorce him eventually and he knows it....coparenting with him is a nightmare most of the time....we have 2 different styles, not to mention that he sucks in the effective parenting...but i CAN say that i know he will also step up for all those occasions....not sure he will step up for much else... ...but thats neither here nor there....i would hope that being he sees it done with our friends he will follow suit!! i know i will do my part and then some...i already do!!! kwim

as for family counseling...i had and have 3 stubborn kids who for the most part refuse!!! we did take the boys for a bit....it helped minutely....and i do mean minutely!!...

sometimes i feel like a beat my head against a brick wall with them and this whole mess

until recently the did not all know about their dad....it finally out in the open and all 3 know...and all "SEEM" to be dealing with it...except for manchild, (19 yo ds)...he has always been the exception....quite a rebel he is!! and he does stupid well too, alot like his dad.. ... its actually kind of scary how much!!!

anyways...if you can get them to therapy...good luck...its worth trying


(((tribe)))


i am taking my life back, one step at a time!!!!!

Posts: 5994 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: looking for my rainbow
Nomorethankyou
♀ Member
Member # 37591
Default  Posted: 10:40 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Forgive me for hogging the forum today.

MC -- you are still on my mind and heart.

By all rights, I should have been the vulnerable partner and have had an affair. I have some pretty rough FOO issues (so maybe everyone does?) No I wasn't beaten but a lot of image issues and conflicting messages and a family in disarray, strong overpowering sibling dynamics -- a therapist's dream. My father is a retired army general, my mother was a model, I am the youngest of six children, was bullimic and started drinking very young (skipped a grade) and was bullimic for years so graduated hs at age 16 and off to college. Drank too much and slept around too much. And had an abortion at 21 (he loves to bring that up. yes he had an affair but I murdered a baby) And oh yes, catholic. So we meet in NYC, worked together, he pursued me, he was very green but sweet and well, I was due some stability! So whirlwind, fun, drove cross country together, then grad schools apart, then married. Good careers, then babies.. boom,boom, boom, boom,pause, boom. But I arrived into married life with anger issues. I could take a lot and had most of my life but now I was married and SAFE and secure and planning but still too indulgent with my moods but for the first time in my life I felt very loved by my equal, I was always in love but I didn't get the harm I was doing.

DISCLAIMER -- I DID NOT CAUSE THE AFFAIR.

He was solid, sweet, immature, boring family but solid, funny, well read, creative. What I knew but did not give as much weight to -- indulgent (I did not like that he had put on so much weight, wasn't exercising, drinking too much -- see my judgement issues! playing right to my personal worries), too aware of people's approval, not as courageous.

So why did he fall down the rabbit hole and not me?

The answer was too easy actually -- because he could. He wanted to be a big player and have at his side some shining bright star to reflect all that he valued (and my urging him to exercise came back to bite me -- that became their focus, she runs marathons, the cult of self was on) I was more of an emotional liability, a drag. What he wanted
trumped everything. He deserved to be recognized for all of his accomplishments. And though he accused me of being needy, it was actually he and his girlfriend who were the neediest and well that they found each other felt pretty great.


The whys were so transparent and ultimately, I realized with my head and now with my heart, that the whys do not matter. That was your take away point :) It does not matter what twists and turns and hurts occurred that landed them on that point. It matters that they took that path. It matters that they returned to that path.

And absolutely, it matters if they have their transformative moment (and I believe mightily in those moments of clarity and change) and I pray that path of light and goodness will hold more for him at the end of the day. He is capable but as miracle so beautifully put it: he must turn the door handle (I love that image)

I have said this often so forgive my redundancy:

I did not want him back if he thought he was strong enough to resist the temptation, I would only want him back because he wanted nothing to do with the temptation.

And this is why I think we are all a bit worried about your wife's stances. She seems to perhaps be going through the paces, recovering her balance and then life as usual and then what? Tryn's point about the constant focus and stress of her career is right on, it is humbling how she has devoted herself (and see! I have not met her but that is a deep contradiction -- does the balance of all the good she has performed, outweigh her mistakes?) My husband is a great father (but is he...?:)) Because you love her and see these contradictions, you understand and eventually, that empathy brings forgiveness. But does that mean you are obligated to stick around and risk a repeat? no.

She is very bright, no way she can't be. She has a sister that married well and is sorting through the same dysfunctional mess. And she saw you, married you because you could save her? See my husband thought I could maybe take him to the next level (Ha! held him back, that'll show him:))

She is smart enough to do this if she wants to, she has the discipline in spades -- her schooling is for a very few. That is perhaps why I fear you are rationalizing. All that has been available to you to sort through the cards you have been dealt, is available to her.

I would still be fighting and losing my mind and damaging my children's sense of security if I hadn't found his email declaration of love last summer. It made the path clear. He had to go. I do not envy you making this decision without that kind of tangible evidence that the end was here.

But now, I no longer feel like anyone is keeping a score card on how I behave. I no longer sleep with one eye open.

And I don't think I spoke to what you asked But I do think that is the most I have ever written on SI.

Night all.


Me BW, 48
Him WH, 48
5 children. Girl (17), Boys (15,14,12,9)
Married 20 years, LTA 3.5-4 years
DD1 3/19/11
DD2. 10/02/11
DD3. 7/03/12 separated that night.
OW. Ugly girl.

There are no shortcuts.


Posts: 107 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: North Carolina
honesttoafault
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Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, March 20th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest.. you got.. even say if I win that powerball.. My gift to you will be freedom.

Ahh, Tryn, that brought tears to my eyes. Thank you!

H&C: It is all sad. Your WW says it's not fair, and she's absolutely right! It's not fair she decided to have an A and this is the fallout. She could have decided to try work with you to fix the M and if that didn't work, the two of you could have a more congenial D.

7yrs: Best buds? What planet is she from? I think that is in the WS handbook! Sure, my best bud cheated and betrayed me.

Miracle: That is some story. I'm glad the girl is ok now. Co-parenting is a difficult thing to do after D, especially if you are having trouble while you are M.
Luckily for you, your kids are getting older, so pfm won't really get to mess up the everyday stuff as much once you are D
Manchild is NOT his father. Remember there is a lot of you in him!

I like your analogy about turning the handle. I believe I've been staring at it for a long time and keep looking away and getting distracted by something else, like my emotions and fears. I've been stuck in that room for far too long. I gave up.....on myself.

But, I am seeing a light coming from under the door every once in a while

Nomore: You are not hogging the board. Tryn very aptly put it a few pages back that if someone has a problem, we all gather together to help. You did not cause the affair. I told my WH that if he put ever a quarter of the time and effort into our marriage that he put into hiding and lying and betraying me with the A, we would have the best marriage in the world. It doesn't matter what the scenario was. I believe a lot of BS's had more of a reason to have an A than the WS's, but we didn't CHOOSE to do so.

MC: Let us know how you are doing. I agree that her anger seems to be a red flag. Instead of being remorseful, she's angry instead.

Forgiveness? With my xWH#1, perhaps I did get to a point of forgiveness. I know after many years I was able to understand some of the reasons he did it. It isn't an excuse for his actions, but I guess I came to an acceptance of it.

I was able to coparent with xWH#1 mainly because we didn't have a problem while we were married, and luckily enough, we still respected one another. We both were products of parents who were divorced, so we fully understood how much the kids hurt and what can make it worse.


Posts: 1897 | Registered: Jan 2010
7yrsflushed
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Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 7:56 AM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the discussion and comments on coparenting all. I believe I can work it like it's a business arrangement. I just don't think my WW understands the reality of our interactions after S and D. I am going to think positive but set my expectations rather low.

Nomorethankyou, your posts and many of the issues you touch on could have been said about my WW.

I did not want him back if he thought he was strong enough to resist the temptation, I would only want him back because he wanted nothing to do with the temptation.
This is exactly the point I got to with my WW. Once I knew the complete her, the one with the "mask" and what she was capable of without the mask I couldn't settle for anything less than her to become a complete person. This is why I don't think remaining in the status quo after Dday especially in LTA's is healthy for either spouse. A remorseful WS trying to do the work isn't remaining in the status quo. The BS working on themselves is breaking the status quo as well. Once the BS knows what the WS is capable of, both good and bad, it eventually becomes a waiting game. Either the BS gets tired of waiting for the WS to fix themselves and moves on or the WS eventually goes back to the blackhole again because they refuse to even attempt to do the work. This dynamic also can go the other way as shown by RSEB's situation.

My WW couldn't even try to be whole so I chose to focus on me and as MC-Jack stated below, this is exactly where I ended up.

Meaning I would be married to a half-person, wearing a mask. The mask in place to hide the brokenness. Do I want that? What are the trade-offs?

I was willing to wait for a bit longer but my WW couldn't and basically said she wanted out of the M but never did anything to leave. So I left (filed for D) because hiding behind her mask was more important to her then our family. I could not accept living with half a person that eventually/possibly will do something to hurt herself, me, or our kids again. Everyone's path is different but my WW already had 2 A's so i'll be damned if I was going to stick around wondering when the 3rd was coming.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1566 | Registered: May 2011
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:16 AM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No more/7yrs/honest/tryn/all; thank you.

Nomore, your story resonated with mine:


I arrived into married life with anger issues....I didn't get the harm I was doing...

Yep. That was me. I have posted before (maybe I should add to profile) my FOO issues, but my mother channeled all her resentment to me and I have spent many, many years trying to make my mother 'happy.' See I was the oldest son of a single mother (my dad died when I was 11 at age 79.) I worked through these things in 2011. I wish I had gone to IC many, many years ago. My life would have been mine, with my own hopes and dreams, not living out my mother's...

This is the money comment:


She seems to perhaps be going through the paces, recovering her balance and then life as usual and then what? ... you understand and eventually, that empathy brings forgiveness. But does that mean you are obligated to stick around and risk a repeat? no.

That is what is going on. She is recovering her balance. We are going back to the old marriage but with key differences, based on my changes, not hers.

This is what she has always wanted, even now. The long-distance A was her bulimic coping skill since there was conflict (what real life presents):

...Somehow you need to figure out how when she comes home.. she is free, safe, away from work… The pressures of her job are left at work.. and home is comfort. Think about ways to make her feel safe in every aspect...

So, my take today is I am in the holding pattern where 7yrs and possibly ATS were...

I am going to do my best to provide her the peace at home that she wants. It will be better for me. I have to overcome my codependency...fixing her, making the marriage more important to me than my own self.

ATS's message about only when he was able to let go of the marriage was he able to make it work still sticks with me.

I have a LOT of work to do on myself. Bottom line: I don't have a purpose. I am afraid of being a provider. Even though I have made a good living, and have worked for the same place for 14 years, I am always talking about quitting, doing something else, afraid of changing, afraid of losing my job. I inherited my mother's insecurity about 'providing'. Worse: I received a message from her that rasing children is a burden and grievance. I love my kids, I can't seem to look at my employment as 'providing' for them. I probably married my WW as it must have seemed as a choice to minimize the provider pressure. I have to fix all this so I don't carry it forward into whatever relationship(s) I have in the future. As 7yrs posted on a different thread:

Stop focusing on her and focus on yourself. Your M doesn't define you, her A doesn't define you, whether or not you stay married or not doesn't define you, YOU define you.

I think I spent the last year 'rescuing' my WW and being her fantasy husband. I was a very good fantasy husband, with a bottomless well of compassion and a magic wand to make the A 'go away'. As a fantasy husband, I was able to displace the fantasy MOM. Now with recent events, reality is setting back in. Real relationships have conflict. Yes there are consequences to sleeping around. So, it's time to go back to the old marriage. From my WW's perspective, it will be good: I am now meeting her needs (physical - now in top shape, like being active, e.g. skiing and running; spiritual - now back in church with family after 5 year hiatus; emotional - I now 'listen' to her, blah, blah, and provide love languages).

But THANK YOU 7yrs for saying what I could not put into words as simply as you did:

I couldn't settle for anything less than her to become a complete person.

So if home is to 'be comfort', when does the hard psychological work happen? I can see now why folks in high stress jobs get divorced. It's not the job itself, it's the toll it takes on what one is able to do at home.

The crystal ball shows me that a very possible future is that I provide the safety that trynhard describes and there is peace at home; my WW and I 'live in the present' and sweep the past under the rug, she does not cheat anymore for various reasons, BUT I am not happy. For good reason. I want to be in touch with her soul not just providing a vehicle for her to safely make it through life until she dies, tucked behind her

steel curtain.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:11 PM, March 21st (Thursday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 12:51 PM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_J posted:
ATS's message about only when he was able to let go of the marriage was he able to make it work still sticks with me.

This was the point where I could begin to do what Tryn has been posting. I let go worrying about what FWW was or was not doing to be better. Now I work on being a good Ats, I presume FWW is being the best FWW she can be. If there are things FWW has influence or control of in the relationship that I do not like I let her know. I expect her to do the same for me, and let me know what I could make better in the relationship for her.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3963 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC,
I think you're asking yourself some very good questions. How are you going to find the answers? I can give you some tools, if you like (via pm), having gone through this myself. Posing this in IC and telling him/her what you want to figure out would probably be extremely helpful.

I'm really proud of you for soul-searching. It's hard, dirty, scary work but it is so so necessary if you are going to lead an authentic life!!!!

High five. Keep questioning!


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:28 AM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Attractive is a man who gives his woman what she wants..

Tryin.. I do not believe that is attractive. My W wants to maintain the same lifestyle she has today (kids, housing, time off, etc) with me providing financial support for it and not being married to me. So "giving someone what they want" is not always attractive. In fact, this is what coccurred during her A as I was out of the country a substantial portion of the time.

I did not want him back if he thought he was strong enough to resist the temptation, I would only want him back because he wanted nothing to do with the temptation.

Nomorethankyou.. my W has told me that part of the excitement of her A was the "chase". Trying to schedule time with her AP, pursuing something that was not always available.

My W also has told me that she was not important to her AP. Only his profession, finances, and his son really mattered to OM.

My W has told me that she frequently tried to end the A, and OM would say "okay, are you sure?" and W would almost immediately continue the A.

I saw a post some time ago that stated "the one who cares least in a relationship has the most power" and I laughes. This was a line from a movie "Ghost of Girlfriends Past" which I highly recommend for its entertainment value. I do not belive that the premise of the quote is appropriate for a meaningful relationship.

My W has also told me that she just wanted to be with OM.

So, tryin's post on being attractive and your post on temtation prompted this thought.

My W was attracted to something she could not have and that is not even close to being a whole relationship. And that brings me to the 180 which I believe is intended to foucus on developing oneself and not spending time trying to fix the WS or a dysfunctional relationship.

That I can, have and will continue to do. But I do not understand why that conflicts with my (continuing) to express to my W that we could build a great future together. Comments anyone?

And when does giving someone a D they want become an action? I still want the M so why should I go and make the D happen? Comments anyone


h&c

[This message edited by hopeandchange at 12:34 PM, March 22nd (Friday)]


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:05 PM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey H&C,

I do not think the conflict is located here:

...But I do not understand why that conflicts with my (continuing) to express to my W that we could build a great future together...

You can maintain a great M as a standing offer all you want in perpetuity. The conflict is not in your offer. It is with your deliverable. The issue is that she has declined, so you need to give her reality, which is divorce and she living on her own without the safety and security of H&C.

Once faced with being divorced your WW might reassess what is important to her - what real love is and is not. What is reality and what is not. Who knows. During this whole time you can keep you offer in place. Giving her a divorce is not mutually exclusive with your offer to have a good M if she provides 100% of herself to it. She can always come back and accept your offer if it is still available.

One enabler of being

attracted to something she could not have and that is not even close to being a whole relationship.

is having the real relationship available as life support...whether is be a hubby or mommy and daddy. LTAs are parasites. It is going to take her some time to realize that the fantasy is not something that is really attainable. One can not turn the fantasy into reality by looking hard enough.

Well that's my 2 cents. You get the amateur opinion first. Smarter people will arrive soon I hope.

By the way, and you can ignore this question, how bad is your vision? I know you can't drive, but was wondering...

Jack

ETA: I removed evidence of my idiocy.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 1:08 PM, March 22nd (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 1:02 PM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And when does giving someone a D they want become an action? I still want the M so why should I go and make the D happen?

That is a fair statement, asking why should you act in a way counter to what you want to do...

Why does your wife not just go initiate a D if that is what she wants?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:45 PM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C
Once faced with being divorced your WW might reassess what is important to her - what real love is and is not. What is reality and what is not.

Exactly

Your W is not at resolution or believe me, the papers would be done and in your hands.

Your wife is in state of limbo. Until you take the chance to remove that limo.. YOU both will always be stuck too. She may even be think how can this man be putting up with so much? Women don’t respect that.

This is why I am saying stand up for your good values. You should not reward a spouse who is behaving closed off.

She wants to be single.. make her single today. You start 180 her and go find a date and make it no secret. You make her react to YOU. And you do this to not place such high value on the relationship. If you react to her, then this is a sign of weakness. Most woman want a strong man.. be this man.

She may the commitment 100% when you live the ultimatum. Good.

“Wife, I have decided to give you want. I don’t want this but I am finding my own peace. You cannot afford this house, never will. That is the reality. I will be visiting my attorney on X date to proceed in giving you what you want. If you happen to change your mind, just let me know. I will accept nothing but 100%! no less. So, when are you moving out?”

The only way you let her back in your world now is 100%.. She comes back to you saying.. I want the M... I want YOU H&C.

Can you have faith in yourself? YOU are a great man H&C.. you have a good job, you are loving, faithful, good dad, if you are living the man I post all the time to the best of your ability.. you are attractive. You don’t need any woman to enhance your life. If you find a good woman who will ask to join you in life and wants to enjoy it with you.. fantastic.. great! This woman will enjoy all you have to offer. Enjoy her with all the blessing you do.. and the man you should be imo.

No woman is ever again going to place me in a position where I want to die. I am at peace with me… Go get it brother..

Sames goes for a woman.. As Laura post.. a man is only around to enhance your life! If they ain't enhancing.. why keep'm around?

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:58 PM, March 22nd (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC..
So, my take today is I am in the holding pattern where 7yrs and possibly ATS were...

Are you sure you are in those that pattern? I see 7yrs having made the choice to D and soon it will be final. ATS is R’ing. You are just feeling uncertainty. You are now over a year out. Your feelings are still hurt, uncertain, not living in a relationship perhaps that is open, intimate and caring like you wish.

I say if you start getting in that mode…your W is broken, then you must end it. Sounds like to me she is not this woman to me today based on your post. She gave you a heartfelt apology. She is having fun with you on the ski trips.. She is talking to you.. You are having sex yes? You are still M. She is not so closed off to you.

Your BIL is hurting for you. He is going to beat up your W. He is bitter for YOU. He says those things but really only knows your W from the surface. Understand that. When you listen to that kind of talk, it will bring you down. The thoughts he gives you will make you feel bad, damaged, and his is trying to tell you your wife is broken. Nobody can fix your wife. She can either start opening up to you, changing, being intimate with you, start view M as loving, giving, caring, and intimate or not. You too.

Sometimes at where you are at in R’ing, your feelings can still be very depressed, very down, very negative. You feeling are your feelings. It does not men you puke those to her. It is OK to be hurt. You have all of us to express those feelings. Post away therapy let call it.

If you behave so hurt, this is not going to be attractive. You will drive your W right out the door. I say once you make the choice to R, you do all within your own power to make it so. You can tear down that iron curtain.

It happens with two behavior changes..

First and foremost.. You cannot be saying and acting in such a way as to closer her down..

“Don’t feel like that..”
“That is stupid to feel like that..”
Stop all criticism when she comes to you with things.. realize people do thing different ways. You do this often, they will stop coming to you..

The second part is YOU bring it out of her..

You do this by sharing.. You share your feelings.. You can initiate the conversation..

By taking a walk, holding hands. Pose a question.. Google “Retrouvaille dialogue questions” and find hundreds to start..

“Honey, can I tell you how I feel about my job? I am not sure I have found my purpose in life. Yes, I spent years in school but I just don’t love it.. It would be great to want to go work.. I’m searching in my mind right now.. How you do you feel about your job?” then listen.. enjoy the moment, the love of quality time.. affirm her if she is positive.. After a few minutes of this..
Then you kiss and reset the moment.. Go get some coffee.. back to reality..

You do this once or twice a week.. You have plenty of question to ask.. you have plenty of things to talk about.. open this woman up! Bring down her wall…

It may take a few.. no’s.. a few continued closed off times.. then you add light pressure.. with your ultimate end value.. I will only be with a woman who is open to me.. The light pressure might be..
“Bring down your iron curtain to me, I am your husband.. You are the closest person to me in my life and I am opening up to you. I expect the same from YOU.. It’s ok if you don’t feel like it right now.. (Reset).. Let’s go get some ice cream..”

Peace brother! and be a man who can lead your woman out of her closed down mind.

MC.. did you have any father figure in your life growing up?

[This message edited by trynhard at 4:33 PM, March 22nd (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

to tryn:


did you have any father figure in your life growing up?

Nope. Are you available?


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By the way, and you can ignore this question, how bad is your vision? I know you can't drive, but was wondering...

MC_Jack

Not quite Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder bad, but damn close.

Much, much more than you expected so all please skip if you are not interested in a non SI issue.


When I take an eye test, they do not use the eye chart because most of the time I cannot see the E at the top of the chart. Instead, the nurse will stand 4 feet from me and ask how many fingers I see (and I am never perfect).

I use a 4x magnification to read. Have a portable device to read newspapers. On the computer, I use a software that provides the magnification.

Going to restrauants, I use a pocket magnifier to read the menu (which works most of the time).

At my kids sporting events, I use binoculars (yes, this stinks) to catch some of what my kids do. Followed up by extended conversations after the game to learn what happened. My DD once joked that I was the "pervert" in the stands watching the teen girls play soccer.

I am very much dependent upon environment to recognize people along with their body shape. If I encounter a work colleague in an unfamiliar social setting, I will not recognize them. I have mistaken friends around our home for my W and children.

So, my vision is pretty bad. It is the central vision which has the fine vision for reading. My peripheral vision is fine and I can see moving objects easier than those fixed in place. Until my Ds was thirteen and it became too dangerous for me, I would play catch (baseball) with him with only the occasional injuries.

If you were to meet me, you would not be aware of my vision loss unless I told you. I work in an old school industry, engineering and construction, and very very few folks know about my vision loss. It is my perception that sharing this information would create a negative image and impact my earning capability.

I lead a large project team, conduct large meetings, give presentations to clients, and am at the top of my profession. I have "sttled" into a comfortable level within my organization as the push to be a partner would be too much considering my visual and hearing limitations.

The key for me is that I take the time to be well prepared and put myself in positions where I am in control and unlikely to encounter surprises.

I use technology to the fullest. The iPhone is great! Not only can I use large font but I can also increase the image with a tap on the screen or spread the image larger with my fingers. I am also able to highlight text and have it read to me audibly. The majority of time I listen to the posts on SI. It has some limitations as it just reads the text regardless of quotes and so I have to really concentrate.

My IC recently encouraged me to share my limitations with my reports and colleagues at work beliving this will help me funtion better. Normally, I would not have responded in this length but I guess she has moved my needle.

If there is anyone, that can benefit from my experience and the tools I use to compensate, PM and I will share what I know.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:31 AM, March 23rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h&c, you are amazing. I admire you. Thanks for sharing your sight limitations with us. I know some people have a hard time feeling comfortable with sharing stuff like that.

I will try to remember in the future when I post directly to you that I type the word "quote, end quote" if I am including a quote.

So, do we all have the same voice when you listen to us?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8934 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, March 23rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h&c-
Thank you for sharing.

You are an amazing man and a wonderful devoted father.

Just like the rest of us here on LTA you do not deserve any of this mess.

Stay strong. Take care of yourself.
Remember your children need a healthy dad.

As for your wife......

Some times you have to risk losing your marriage to save it.
Open the door and let her have her freedom.

Do not beg or plead anymore as that will make her feel as if she is trapped.

Let her see if freedom and the single life is all she thinks it will be.

Let her deal with the consequences of her actions.

She may eventually wake up and realize what she is giving up but be prepared in case she never does.
Focus on yourself, your children.
Seek out help if you need it. IC was key for my recovery and healing.

Surround yourself with people that love you and care about you.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, March 23rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C,

I too am impressed by how you get along. I am in the same profession as you - can't imagine your routine. But, planning is the central theme to it all.

You're inspirational along many dimensions.

Jack


Btw, anyone here watch Downton Abbey? I found that show on Netflix last Sunday and have been watching it every day. I am now in season 2.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:53 PM, March 23rd (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 788 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack,

I am off to work in a few minutes...just wanted to send you good thoughts and tell you YUP I am a Downton Abby Junky...I found it on Hulu about six months ago when I had a week off...caught up in that week on the entire first two seasons...I LOVE LOVE LOVE it...can't wait for season 4 to start :-)

Have a great day everyone.
RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
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