I experienced extreme stress and anxiety after d-day.
I was a basket case but I did see a doctor early on and I'm convinced that meds saved me from going off the deep end.
I needed anti anxiety meds (Xanax) that I took when something was extremely stressful.
I also took ADs (anti- depressants for about 2 yrs).
And.... sometimes I needed to take sleeping pills to help me sleep!
all of that and...
I tried to de-stress the natural way too- by taking lots of long, hot, baths at all hours of the night and splurging on massages now and then and taking yoga classes once I calmed down a bit.
I also went to IC for 4 yrs.
That was extremely helpful for me.
I needed to talk it all out.
I stopped taking ADs after 2 yrs and I have stopped needing the Anti-anxiety meds as well as the sleeping aids.
So, you are not alone in feeling stressed.
A while back I mentioned a book by Dr. Ortman-Transcending Post Infidelity Stress Disorder.
He gives a variety of spiritual/meditation type exercises to help 'get over' the infidelity.
The book is directed at those that divorce after infidelity as well as those that decide to reconcile.
He feels that either way the BS often exhibits PTSD like symptoms.
I have a very low stress tolerance now. And ten years ago I was working full time, I had a toddler, and I was going to law school at night.
So, I hear you.
ATS got me reading a bunch of Buddhist stuff and it's been super-helpful. Just a thought. But the bottom line is that I've had to cut WAY back on what I do. Not all of that is due to having 4 kids in Kindergarten or younger, and a 5th older child as well. Though that certainly adds another layer to how little I can do.
I am going to try the meds and see what that does. I have doctor phobia due to 10yrs of missed diagnosis's and so many different meds for things they diagnosed me with that was not the real medical problem. They are trying to get to the root of my internal bleeding issues now. Hopefully I can use that as an excuse for my stress and I don't have to go into my personal issues with this new specialist.
I wuld love to talk with an IC, but with all my other medical bills right now, I can't afford to do that.
I am glad to know that others have had the same thing happen. I was beginning to think I was losing my mind and I guess in a way this has affected my stress coping skills. I will also order the PTSD book you suggested. Anything that will get me out of this funky feeling will be greatly appreciated.
MC. My fWH continues to see his consequences all on his own. It's things that will hit him every so often. He took the OW to hockey games (my family is all about them) He now gets sick to his stomach even thinking about it. His A has ruined an event that he used to enjoy with the kids and now he can barely tolerate it. He sees the pain he's caused and knows how many things he can't go back and change. He runs into his consequences all the time without my help at all.
He went to IC for about 1 1/2 years and did some very very hard work.
My first dday was in 1999. He was somewhat remorseful, but never got to the root of his issues and the A went underground going from an EA to a PA. I wish I had known then what I do now. I would encourage your spouse to keep working on herself and her issues. My husbands issues were childhood sexual abuse and the A turned into an addiction, a way to tolerate the pain of the past and relive the trauma. It's really hard to explain but I feel confident that we're moving forward.
On a side note I'm attending a retreat for Betrayed Spouses only in April. I will report back on how it went
You improve things, truly, by changing yourself, not your spouse
M3: So simply put, but very, very profound!! Thank you.
I do know what you mean. So many years ago I had soooo much on my plate, I don't know how I did it.
I used to give the analogy that I was like one of those performers who had dozens of plates spinning on those long sticks and kept them going all at the same time. I was like that. I was a single mother, working full time, going for my masters, taking care of BPD mother and my grandparents.
Then I had to have an emergency gall bladder operation. Once the plates started falling, I couldn't get it going again. Everything broke.
Trust: I truly understand what you are saying about meds. I'll try to share what I experienced. With my first xWH #1 about 25 years ago, I was adamantly opposed to taking AD's because I thought they were "mind altering". Finally, after research and confiding in a coworker/friend, I found out that with a lot of stress, it is well known that it can cause all sorts of havoc on people physically: ulcers, heart conditions, blood pressure, etc etc. Another PHYSICAL component of stress is on the brain and the uptake of serotonin. This is a phyical thing. All AD's do, is to try to balance the uptake of the natural serotonin in the brain that was upset by extreme stress. Try to think of it as a person who has diabetes and needs meds to balance the insulan.
AD's (anti depressants) have the moniker that makes us think they are mood altering meds. THEY ARE NOT.
As my friend so aptly put it, YOU do not feel a big difference in mood per se, but the people around you will notice that you are starting to "be yourself" again. You are starting to smile.
For me, the grey veil that was before my eyes was beginning to lift. After a while, I started to feel, " Hey, my problems are bad, but maybe, just maybe I can start to handle them".
That's what an AD can do. It is NOT a "mind altering" drug like an anti anxiety drug like the old fashioned Valium. It is working on a physical condition: stress that interruptied the serotonin uptake in your brain.
You will NOT feel "high" or whatever. You will start to feel you can begin to handle things.
Of course, one may have to try different kinds of AD's to see what works for them. Just like some people may have to try different blood pressure meds or even allergy meds to see what's best for them.
I do know in most cases, the AD's are temporary to help things balance and with IC help things can get on an even keel.
I hope this helps.
NJgal: Thank you soooo very much. I put all my eggs into one basket with NPD. Despite everything, I still love the bastard. I believe because of my "training" with a BPD mother and an alcoholic father with a lot of FOO issues and possibly a lot of narcisstic traits, I do look beyond and try to see the good in everyone. I believe I "see" the good in NPD that is hiding deep within and then ignore all the blatant toxic behaviors. What I had to do all my life with mom and dad and xWH.
Maybe I'm in love with the potential, and not the actual reality of what is going on.
I had to be separate from xWH#1 for a few years before I fully realized that he was an alcoholic and "normal" people didn't live the way we lived.
Now, I've tried to distance myself from Mom as much as I can and am finally seeing how toxic she is. I know she can't help it. I know she is BPD and is basically a good and moral person, but she is toxic to me.
No matter what I think I "see" in NPD, he is toxic to me. PERIOD.
This is hard for me.
I wish I had something helpful to say. I don't, but I think you're amazing and sending you strength.
Perhaps my grabbing my W on the arm slinging her to the ground was one... How about that?
Maybe when I sent everything on the kitchen desk all over the den?
Perhaps when I threw with words “not only is she a cheater but a murderer for killing an unborn child. A murderer and a cheat”
Perhaps the things I did was her penance.
It is an absolute miracle I am still with this woman.
I honestly believe that infidelity should be against the law. If you compare this crime to all the other crimes.. what the hell is the difference in the feelings that result? For most, same exact feelings as being raped, molested, robbed, theft of life savings, and murdered love one, you go into depression, you go into trauma, and you have tremendous grief. If I were king for a day, I would pass a law.. The offender loses all assets. If you have no assets, you spend mandatory 30 days in jail (or whatever). You lose any custody of kids when involved.
I know some people will still cheat because this law is in the military. So, they then face the consequences full well knowing. But believe most people have good within their hearts. How many offenders would not cheat? With this type law, you just don’t have those…”It just happened” type adultery… I say this law would give the WS courage to face the issues they have before the fail… to confront and conflict… To end it before a new relationships starts.
TrustGone.. I got on a drug for 6 months. It did alter my mind. I think it helped.. After that, I never again punched a wall or did evil myself. It calmed my anger. I had no more panic attacks.. It gave me huge strength when I got off.. when I got off it felt like I had won something.
Blobette.. Sometimes, bad things happen to us. No, we don’t deserve them, the end never justified the means.. and these things are out of our control. You have blessed your H with something I bet he fully understands. I spent 3 months listening to men who cheated on their wives, giving excuses, reasons, wanting their wives to forgive them, wanting their families back, wanting their wives to love them like before. Most are now D, totally disqualified. R’ing in your situation says it all for me.. Your beautiful.
I'm sure that you were not serious in your comments about natural consequences.
Extreme anger is often a reaction that many BS have after d-day but not something that anyone condones or encourages.
An example of a natural consequence for a child vs rug sweeping or coddling and 'protecting' him ...
if a child chronically does not do his homework....a violent, punitive parent may act out by spanking the child,
another less punitive form of discipline might be taking away a privilege like TV,
The natural consequence
approach would be to allow the
child to fail and to point
out to the child that due to
his choices he will receive a
lower grade on his report card
and there will be other
consequences if he keeps it up
he may have to repeat the
class, or have to attend
summer school etc.
And that you as a parent will not bail him out.
Rug sweeping or coddling this
child would be making excuses
for him, blaming the teacher
for giving too much homework,
and doing the homework for the child because you do not
want him to fail or to feel
bad or to have any negative consequences.
That rug sweeping , coddling
behavior in my opinion is just
as damaging as the punitive
spanking because the child
will never change his behavior
and will take this attitude
into his life as he grows up.
Not saying that we should treat our WS like children.
Just using this as an example of why I feel that allowing the WS to feel the natural consequences for their actions is a healthy approach to dealing with infidelity.
Anyway we have signed papers now and my WW has done nothing to resolve her deep rooted FOO and self esteem issues. If she even gets the position she and OM (his BW divorced him) technically won't work together but the teams report to the same Director. So I look at her and say you have no idea what you are getting yourself into do you and she says, that is long over and she is looking at the job for the money. She does need the extra money to pay for her new house, furniture, etc. I honestly believe she is looking at this from the money perspective but I also think even after knowing that MOM was sleeping with other women on the job while he was sleeping with her she is just clueless or the most deceptive person alive. Either way not my problem. If signing the papers means she wants to rekindle her luurrve more power to her. She kept trying to tell me it had nothing to do with him and I told her hey it's none of my business and you can do what you want and kept on about my business.
Just goes to show you that even if she was completely over OM the fact that she would even be willing to put herself in the vicinity of him again thinking she will be "okay" just reinforces to me that I made the right decision. She has no concept of boundaries and what she should or should not be doing. But hey not my choice to make and it's her life to live however she chooses.
This is why detachment is awesome. This would have sent me through the roof 6 months ago. Now I just sit back and count down until July 1, 2013 when she moves out of the house. Then the countdown starts again for July 2014 when 1 year passes and the D can be final. Just more proof that if they can't even make the attempt to resolve their issues or make themselves safe then the pattens just start up all over again and they continue to make bad choices.
My new motto: Only a few more months to go!
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 12:39 PM, March 16th (Saturday)]
She is applying for a job to work with the OM.
Talk about not facing your own demons and not doing any introspection.
She is definitely doing this for more reasons than just money....but, like you say-it's not your problem anymore.
You sound strong!
I know better days are coming for you!
it can be done, but not all can do it!!
me, i have a remorseful ws who does everything on the outside he is supposed to do, but he still lies and tells me that he is a changed man and no one is perfect....he is trying to do the work, wants to do the work and still he can't stop what feels familiar and right to HIM!! when fear guides you, you choose wrong behavior for the most part.....
out of time....gotta go get my dd from the airport...will be back later to either fix what i wrote and hopefully address some other stuff....
meds and stress....stress related to the job is SSSOOOOO different from the stress caused by infidelity....one is based in the heart, and the other in your head....while both will produce strong emotional responses, the emotional connection with those you love will cause a great deal more stress...no one dies thinking bout their job..kwim....its always about the ones you love..
as for taking meds....i tried a.d.'s...i had a strong reaction where i ended up more strung out...i felt like i was literally jumpin out of my skin...xanax however was wonderful...still is....just enough to take the edge off...you still feel what you feel...but that edge is gone.....
anyways...last nite ds was in a play in high school...it was called "in the woods"....bascially lots of disney characters and rapunzel, goldilocks etc....and the story ended up with many morals within....and wouldn't you know it.....cinderella's prince (cinderella was my hero growing up)...cheated on her....go figure!!!!!!
there never seems to be escape from it....
Yes, we just can't seem to get away from infedelity. I never really noticed it before this. When XWH#1 had his affairs (drunken ONS's) it didn't seem to affect me as bad as this one has. Yes I would be upset for a while, but not to the degree I am now. I did not let it eat away at me like this LTA has. There really wasn't that much to process: he was drunk, she was available, no emotional attachment, just a fuck that half the time he didn't even remember the details of the next day. I guess that is why I never really had that many triggers and no mind movies. I did not really associate it to movies or songs, because not that many involve a drunk dude and a whore. He never brought them in our home to have sex and it wasn't like it happened a lot over the 20+yrs we were together. Our marriage had always been rocky due to his alcoholism. He finally stopped drinking and I thought we were doing OK, well not Ok, but you know no major problems until his EA/PA? with an 18yr old. I kicked him to the curb and filed for divorce because he could no longer blame it on the alcohol and I was no longer a stupid co-dependant wife and no longer really in love with him. Too much water under the bridge at that point.
But with this 3yr LTA of WH#2 it has been pure hell for me. We had a good marriage and no major issues until he started his affair. I guess the major thing for me is back to that stupid emotional attachment fantasy bull#$%^. Even if he was remorseful,(which he isn't) I still don't think I could forgive him or trust him again.
I just don't think it is possible to love someone and cheat on them. The first thing that comes to my mind when some guy made a pass at me was my husband and how much I loved him and how dare this person think I would do that to someone I love. I even had a BIL make a pass and try to kiss me. I shoved him and told him, I love my husband and you are suppose to love your wife. I then immediately told my husband what happened. BIL was drunk and called to apoligize the next day, but our relationship has never been the same since and won't. I did not tell my SIL, only because my husband asked me not to tell his sister what a slezebag she had for a husband. My husband was in his affair at this time, but I didn't know it then.
Anyway, I'll quit with my long drawn out rambling post. As usual my mind starts to think of all this stuff and it just comes out. I need to start posting in my journal again.
When the WS is in the middle of the LTA they don't love anyone in the way they should not even themselves.
They are in a very psychologically unhealthy place.
Some WS do the work and do become healthy again and are able to be a loving, caring spouse again.
Other WS get stuck in that toxic mindset.
Your shock over WH #2's LTA was due to the trust you had in him.
The more trusting you are the more traumatized by the revelation of an LTA.
It affects the basic foundation of our beings and makes us question everything that we thought we knew about our lives.
Those are the kind of things that Dr. Ortman discusses in his book on PISD.
My counselor likes the plan I have been following with Tryins advice. I am being the best quality wife I can and it is up to him to chose me and if he doesn't the divorce consequence is coming. I'm pretty fed up and angry at how this stuff happens.
My dad isn't doing the greatest with his brain cancer. I am extremely hurt and angry that my husband can't let his ho go while I helping my dad deal with this ugly disease. The least he could have done is let me go and quit dragging me along.
I know my path isn't the most "right" way of dealing with an affair but it is how I had to. I am finally mad enough and put up with enough that I will leave him after our trip if he has contact with her. I have done all I can do and I know I have done what is right and fair for the marriage. It is up to him now. I will face the divorce and my dads death alone but I will be a much better person for it. I can't go on living like this, it is nothing short of hell knowing you are being lied to, wondering what they are waiting for, trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. Oh well, I just want this misery to end one way or another.
I will keep you posted. Strength to all of you going through this hell.
You know your own self and circumstances better than anyone else. You do not have to prove anything to anyone, certainly not anyone here.
I'm glad to hear that you have a plan you are happy with.
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:43 PM, March 17th (Sunday)]