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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 31
TrustGone
♀ Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Details have always really not mattered that much to me. Yes there were some things I wanted answers to, which I never got, but I never wanted to know the gory details. I only saw one text he sent her as he was always really good about phone hiding and password protection on his phone and usually erased all messages. That was enough to make me ill and so the rest I didn't want to know. Maybe thats why I don't really have a lot of mind movies.

My main thing I always wanted to know was about what he actually said to her about me and our marriage. What lies he told her to get her to continue the affair, that kind of thing. OW filled me in on a lot of that herself when she was mad at him on DDay#1. So I knew enough details to last me a lifetime.

Now I no longer even care about the details I wanted to know. It won't change what happened or the reason for him doing it. So he can take his dirty little secrets to his grave for all I care anymore. They are his to feel guilty over or not, but that is no longer my problem or my concern. So yes, I think that is in a way part of healing process. If your WS won't help you heal the hurt, then you must do it on your own.


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am working on a beer bucket at a waterfront bar thinking about the Tribe and a boat named All-Good went through the pass into the Gulf. Everyone on board was smiling, I hope she is too.

SI is a place for transitions. I hope we all sail off happily into the rest of our lives in due time.

(Tribe)


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 5:01 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No hugs, just a butt slap:

Tribe
------

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 5:02 PM, March 8th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:02 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack-
You look very fit and very happy in your pic!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 6:03 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brooke,
This post is about reconciliation.
You can place a label on my suggestions and call them as Passive-aggressive. We all have each one of those described mental illness within us. All to one degree or another. My own obsessions have resulted in very positive things. I have wealth well beyond most Americans.

Yes, my H and I have also both been very fortunate in our careers and finances - I'm not sure I'm understanding the correlation here?


So I challenge you…
Tell me this… if you are not attractive to your H because he is overweight. It is disgusting to you now. What exactly will to tell him?
Brooke, “ ????”
H, “So you hate the way I look” he thinks, he feels.. what? Will he disqualify himself?

In all honestly, it's hard for me to imagine this situation and how I would tackle it, but, yeah, if my H allowed himself to become seriously unattractive in a way that really mattered to me and in a way that was under his control, I would find a way to talk about it with him.


A value to us all should be to take care of your own body. But after years of liking what we like, to change and eat carrots is not so rewarding. Eating is natural human requirement to live.. we store fat. A most difficult value to enforce. It take a person of strength. We can offer our strength in two way…
1) We share our most deep inner thoughts. Very hurtful thoughts to the M and to our spouses.


2) We choose what is good for the M. We choose to encourage, to support, to reward, to lead them… And it is done starting with very light pressure.. or maybe implied pressure. A passive way. That is the healthy way I have learned.

I'm sorry, Tryn, I'm not trying to be dense or combative. I understand that number 2 is the less hurtful way, but I don't see how it's the healthy way. It feels to me like manipulation, like the way you would manipulate a toddler into not having a tantrum. My H is a grownup, he's at least my intellectual equal - he deserves for me to treat him that way. If his feelings are terribly hurt, yes, it might hurt the marriage, but on the other hand, if I care that much about his weight, I have to accept that his being overweight will eventually hurt the marriage one way or another. And, yes, of course I believe spouses should encourage, support and reward each other. But not for accomplishing something that the other is trying to manipulate them into.

In this way, If someone is not respecting their own health, we can build the pressure with some consequences later if we need that. It might get to a point that our spouses are unable to change. We then decide what we can take or not take. The ultimate end is you give the ultimate consequence like H&C is faced.

If your spouse doesn't know what it is you want them to do, how is it fair to enact consequences? This just seems completely antithetical to open communication. H&C's wife has been given every chance. She knows what she needs to do and is choosing not to. To me, that's a totally different thing.


But should I find something that is totally disgusting to me. I think we must approach it in a way that is completely fair. You keep your attractiveness in-tack along the way. Allow them to really understand in a slow way because change take time and most get to a point they make the choice to change.. or should they make the choice not to change and do their part to make sure the M is strong… I make a choice to change knowing I was completely fair along the way.

Yes, change does take time, of course. But I don't find the idea of a spouse talking honestly about difficult subjects unattractive....

MCJack - I'm sorry if this topic was a trigger for you. You look great and your picture really made me miss living close to skiing. We usually go for ten days in the French Alps every February but didn't get to go this year because of an unusually busy work period. I've been feeling very deprived.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(1) Who cares whether or not the A relationship was "real" or not? It's not your relationship. Eyes on your own paper.

I really agree with this 100 percent. The thing is, I also think it takes time and some distance to get to this realization. I mean, you may realise it intellectually early on, but that doesn't mean your heart is on the same page.

The truth is that there's no version of an affair that isn't unbearably hurtful. UKGirl struggles because her H's affair was (she feels) meaningful. I struggled forever because my H's two and a half year A seemed to have no meaning - I remember in my hysterical ranting phase, screaming, "you almost threw everything away for nothing???" That just boggled my mind - I could get, in a way, the idea of risking everything for what you believed to be an earth-shattering love, but for some easy sex? It made no sense to me on any level. I used to look at people's stories on SI and think, well at least his/her WS *loved* their AP. That's how ridiculous things can get if you give in to that kind of analysis.

Which is a boring and long-winded way of saying again that M33 is right - you can struggle to come to grips with things, but at some point you just have to accept that it doesn't really matter and it may not be helping your healing to focus on what the A was or wasn't.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Ok, last post for today - mind movies.

I think some people have really good results with controlled techniques to make them stop, and some people (like me) just have them and have them and have them until they go away.

Everyone processes things differently, and I know that's my way. I was in NY on 9/11 and I went through a very similar process with that. I know they're awful, but do try to take comfort in the thought that they are ultimately a coping mechanism. One day, you'll realize you haven't had one in forever.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:15 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Brooke - no trigger at all. Just my truth. I was unattractive along lots of dimensions. Poor health and medical procedures related to that. Big anger problems. Not anymore. Glad to have my life back. In all kinds of ways. I am much happier.


The only thing I have not tackled yet is my ADD. It has gotten worse over the years. 5.5 years of grad school kind of exagerated it in a weird way. I bought a book on Amazon on 'Being married to someone suffering from adult ADD'. It was an eye opener. So I have decided to take my issue seriously and evaluate medication.

Anyone here have ADD experience?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:19 PM, March 8th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats -- you did indirectly "someone will see you in the hotel parking lot".

Ah -- years of tears and machinations can go into "eyes on your own paper" I was giving you the answer without teaching you to get it: kind of like only learning to do math with a calculator.

Peaceful weekends to you all.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 2:02 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"
eyes on your own paper"

M3: That's interesting, and I think hard to get to. I know with my xWH#1, I can do it. We've been D for about 25 years, (and yes goddamnit, I still miss who he was....) and the other day DS37 was talking on the phone with him and I could hear his voice...and Memories (geez I'm thinking about the movie and song "The Way We Were") anyway, (sorry for the ramble), I thought if we ever got back together, it wouldn't bother me about the fact that he had remarried, etc because as M3 says "eyes on your own paper"

I think if the WS is over and done with the AP, that could be possible. It takes a LONG time to do that.

In my case, OW is still there and always will be. So it's always a threat. Something I can no longer live with. It's taken me soooo long to come to grips with everything. Anytime WH offered me some crumbs, I grabbed it, I was starving. But I'm realizing how deep the emotional abuse has been. How isolated I've become. I'm starting to step out a bit, and making new friends and deepening friendships of some wonderful people and I'm starting to realize, I'm ok. I'm not perfect, but ok

Sorry for the ramble.

MCJack: Love the pic!!!

Trust: You are in my thoughts and prayers. I hope that the docs can find a diagnosis for you.

Ats: I love that you saw that boat. I also liked your analogy about fixing your boat. In time, I feel, that you will learn to trust. You deserve it. Mrs. Ats really has been trying too and I hope that you both can go off into the sunset happily. The funny thing, was as you were describing seeing the boat "Allgood" , I got a pic in my head that the LTA tribe got together on your boat and stopped somewhere and Dip did the grilling and we would have a great get together

Brooke: I love your posts, and agree!! Everyone processes things differently and it's good to have different suggestions and experiences from various people to see what can work for you. It's not "one size fits all"


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:39 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC... I’m glad you shared your pick.. When I read M3, Laura, UK, ats (I’ve met) DeepPurple, Nell all post I see their picture in my mind. ReunitePangea once posted..
” Wow Tryn, you are quite the quality man, if I batted for the other team I would want you, lol.”
I won’t go that far… but on the slopes, looking fit.. wish I was with ya. ADD? I know nothing about. MC, you are doing great and are on a good new path. Can you think everything YOU do is an opportunity for growth… We all need to work toward fix’n something.

Brooke.. I get what you are saying and I am ok with your method of communication if you want to be that direct. It changes or ends things that much more quicker. I just happen to believe for me, it is better to take your time, be nice, and with repetition someone will change with positive re-enforcement.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:54 AM, March 9th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 8:46 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

a beer bucket at a waterfront bar thinking about the Tribe and a boat named All-Good went through the pass into the Gulf. Everyone on board was smiling,
That is so serendipitous, ats. It made me smile. I hope everyone in the Tribe is smiling this weekend.

As far as "eyes on your own paper" and who cares if the relationship was "real" or not. Obviously, I am suffering some unhappiness and anger about this. I feel I explained that for quite awhile I was drinking the SI kool-aid that it wasn't a "real" relationship. Which is probably quite true for ONS, people who used prostitutes, very short term affairs, etc. But, for LTA's it isn't the truth.

Now, I need to reframe to accept the reality. Does that make sense? All LTA's aren't the same, either. Some had the "lluurrvv" component and some were nothing more than fuck buddies. Which is were my FWH's LTA falls. Oh, he cared for it as he cared for any "friend", but not more than that. However, it still was a real relationship.

at some point you just have to accept that it doesn't really matter and it may not be helping your healing to focus on what the A was or wasn't.
I agree with this. Don't you think you have to accept the truth and reality, though, instead of what you would like the reality to be, to be able to move on and accept?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 8:46 AM, March 9th (Saturday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8988 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 9:06 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Don't you think you have to accept the truth and reality, though, instead of what you would like the reality to be, to be able to move on and accept?

Yes, I do. The thing is though that--and this is my opinion only--you'll never really know what it was or wasn't. Two effed up deluded people having a secret relationship, my guess is that most affairs are a mix of everything and nothing, if that makes sense. I think they're probably both a very potent cocktail of intense emotion (including bad ones, like guilt and shame and self-loathing) and emptiness.

But if you weren't a participant, I don't think you can really know or understand what it was or wasn't. And this might sound weird, since I'm a big proponent of knowing what you're recovering from, but I think since you can't really know, there comes a point where it's counterproductive to spend time and energy on trying to figure it out that could be going into your own forward progress.

But that's a place that takes some time and distance to get to.


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:25 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm lucky (???) in one way because Daffy's A and AP made sense when I took off my rose-colored glasses and put on the reality lenses.

The combination of his FOO issues, the mental problems the AP had in common with Daffy's twin, his own inability to form (much less hold) principles and priorities--the man was a hot mess of cheater mindset. Still is, actually. He's the consummate Nice Guy and will only be happy on those occasions where everyone pats his head and says that he's a good boy. His A story is such a classic example of the Karpman triangle that it's shocking. He doesn't see it, of course.

While I hope he someday figures himself out, I could only grant him two years of my life while he hid from himself before I had to get away for my own good. And I'm so much happier and completely at peace on the other side of all this.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:01 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hey everyone. Thought I'd share with you all this little text message surprise I got this morning.

If you recall some recent story, I told the other BS on Jan 21. Since then she has called me maybe 5 times or so and we have talked for a few hours in aggregate. She seems to be a sweet, nice, decent woman. She told me that her H was a classic narcissist and had all kinds of things to share. She referred to him as a huge disappointment. She did most of the talking.

In a weird way, I found it healing to talk to her. Gave me another dimension to the terrible A story. So when I think of OM, I don't think about a hotel room, just about his family and what I know about his wife and kids. I now know deep down the guy is just some fucked up, remorseless, non-apologetic asshole, not some love god IYKWIM.

I last talked to her on Tuesday when I told her I would compromise on the phone bills (my MC was on a jihad against me sending them and was just to much current to swim against) and let her just look at them over the internet without taking possession. She demured, saying that her H had confessed that he had 'screwed up' (that was the extent of it), so she really did not need to see them after all.

I then told her it probably did not make sense for us to keep on talking as we needed to focus on our families and separate ourselves from each other. I offered one last pow wow in the coming weeks to answer any final questions. She said she did not know if that was necessary. Our conversations were always friendly and civil. I even reached out to her with some healing resource info.

I went to my phone this morning and saw a text from her phone sent at 1am her time:

"Go f*ck yourself!!! Do not ever call me again with your pathetic stories of your desperate wife and miserable and troubled life. Fix your own problems and leave me and my family alone!"

Hah! How about that!

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:52 AM, March 9th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC,

Does not sound like xMOM found phone records and sent you a text pretending to be his BW. Nope, not at all.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
TrustGone
♀ Member
Member # 36654
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I somewhat agree with the fact that it doesn't matter if there was a real relationship with the AP or not. Either way it happened and there is no taking it back. I think it does however take a while to get to this realization when a LTA was involved.

As a new BS, this was the one thing that bothered me more than anything, that he had a relatinship with this OW. That he told her he loved her, gave her an engagement ring, spent time with her that was my time, brought her into our home and our bed, etc... All the while telling me how much he loved me and how much he missed me when I was working, how proud he was of me and my career, etc....

It has since dawned on me that he really doesn't know the meaning of love and I now see it more clearly. To me it is like the show, Seinfeld, a show about nothing. He was basically in a LTA realtionship about nothing. None of it was real life. None of it had any real meaning. It was all fantasy and mirrors on their part. OW wanted luvvvvve and he wanted sex. He got what he wanted, she didn't because he is really not capable of giving love in the true sense of the word. OW thought he loved her just like I did. He can be oh so sweet and attentive when he wants to be and when there is something in it for him. I have since seen the same trait in almost everyone in his family, even his parents to some extent. They all seem to have a selfish, it's all about me streak. I used to think they were just competetive type people because they were always trying to get one up on the others. Now I truely see them for who they really are and have started to distance myself from them as much as possible.

I guess one of these days I will quit trying to analyze this whole mess (one of my issues). Hope everyone has a great weekend!!!


BW-50
WH#2-51
M-9 yrs T-11 yrs
4 children-none together
DD#1-9/5/11 LTA 2yrs
DD#2-7/3/12 False R
DD#3-4/29/13 (OW broke NC)
Status: Your guess is as good as mine.

Posts: 2420 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: Texas
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Whiskey, er, I mean MC_Jack, I would speculate that wasn't sent by the BS. I strongly believe it was most likely sent by the WH. A peeved WH.
In terms of your assessment, an honest assessment accepted and forgiven is more powerful.
I really liked this in response to my "their relationship was real" post. I will keep this in mind as I come to acceptance.


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8988 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was one of those that had to analyze this issue to death....

and yes....of course they had a 'real' relationship.

The APs are alive and real and any interaction with another human being is 'real'.

There was a big news story recently about a little resort town in Maine....and a prostitution scandal.

The 100 + men were busted for frequenting the local Zumba instructor for sex.


I guess you could say that they were having real and ongoing relationships with this woman.

Many of them saw her every week!

But...to take Tryin's word....were any of these LTAs 'quality' relationships?

How could they be when for many the majority of time spent together was focused on only one thing-sex?

Any married person knows that there is so much more to every marriage.

Trust Gone said that her WS did not know the meaning of love.

I think that is is probably true for many of the WS

The thing is that like Brooke said they were both effed up.

Big time.

You do not live a lie like this for years unless you are.

All we can hope for is that after d-day the WS has taken time to take a long hard look at themselves and the direction that their life has taken and that they try to make changes in themselves.


I think my FWH's alcoholic behavior has given me some insight into the concept of compartmentalization.

He had a lot of toxic thinking going on for years...even before the LTA.

And one thing that alcoholics have in common with WS is that they are selfish.

They are focused on fulfilling their own selfish needs without any regard to others.


There was another thing that was similar for my FWH at that was that he wanted to end the behavior but did not.

For ex. my FWH wanted to stop drinking and would always say that this would be his last binge or drink etc.

Later after d-day he explained that he never wanted the LTA to go on for as long as it did.

His intention was always to end it.

And after every encounter he would say...this will not happen again...until it did.

so very similar to his alcoholic behavior.

Back to the concept of compartmentalization.....

My FWH started that with his drinking.

He had his 'drinking buddies' and then he had the rest of his life.

He rationalized that because he worked hard, and had to commute from the city, and there was traffic etc. etc.
He needed to unwind and stay after work for a 'few' drinks with his drinking buddies.

This behavior caused many arguments in our marriage.

There were many nights when I was home with young children waiting for 'daddy' to get home from the office for dinner and he would not show up!
(This was pre-cell phone)...

so, he had a 'real' relationship with these drinking buddies....real enough to risk arguments with his wife over them.....

but not really....
because he kept the drinking buddies in a compartment.


he never included these drinking buddies in the rest of his life.
They were not treated the same way as his 'real' friends.

They would never be invited to our home for a party, or to family christening, or join us on a family vacation.

(and this was not my choice it was his...)

They were relegated to this one sick, toxic, compartment of his life....

They were not people that he wanted to interact with outside of this bubble.

I do think that for some WS that is how the LTA is...it is a bubble ....it is not integrated into the rest of their life....

that's why I have said in the past that the LTA was not a 'real' relationship.

But, I probably should have said that it was not a whole relationship, or a quality relationship.

Again... I want to repeat so as not to upset anyone here on the LTA forum...
I am only describing my own experiences.

This may be very different from how you see things or what your experience has been.

We are all different and at different stages of recovery and every situation is different.

So, all we can do is to listen to each other.

Offer support.

And take what we need from each others posts.


MCJack-

IMHO The WH definitely sent you that text!


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
cheerless
♀ Member
Member # 38135
Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

… like Brooke said they were both effed up.

Big time.

You do not live a lie like this for years unless you are.

And one thing that alcoholics have in common with WS is that they are selfish.

They are focused on fulfilling their own selfish needs without any regard to others.

So true, so true.


♪I'm not fine; I'm in pain
It's harder every day ~ Maroon 5♫

BS:45 WH:47 needhelp123
8yr EA&PA w/MCOW emp/frmr emp
19y M * 25y T, 2 teens
DDay 12/31/12*5w TT
Sick tired sad


Posts: 273 | Registered: Jan 2013
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