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User Topic: Tell me about "kisa's."
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:21 AM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cheese-its........that's it. We need to get some male insight on how in the hell it goes from helpful to fycking

As in, do KISAs just bullshit their way into Vaginatown?

I'm sure some do, but that's not really a KISA imo, it's some dbag playing a woman. These men and women who portray as a KISA aren't just in it for sex but for all the other validation and look-good reasons that come with it. Sex happens as part of the HowCanIEverRepayYou thing sure, or ICanBeABetterManWithYouSavingMe shit, but the sex is just one part of the picture, not the end result IMO.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7341 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
OnAnIsland
♀ Member
Member # 34319
Default  Posted: 3:43 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH broke no contact in October because he was worried about her. Here is what he said of their emotional connection in the affair. She had so much on her plate- so much up in the air. And he was the only one who really knew her and could support her.

In his case, he believed these things about her, and she set him up to fill those needs. i.e. fueled that image of being the only person on the continent who really understood her, etc. and granted this was pure B$. While they had met years ago and had a brief fling, that was it. He didn't really know her. I would argue that he still doesn't.

And he went out of the way to be there for her, while I really needed his support, since we had moved away from my career, family, friends, support network......KISA thing only seems to operate for needy others- not for your own partner....


D-day: Christmas 2011
D-day 2: 3/28/2013

Married for over 15 years
2 beautiful boys in elementary school

You may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Maya Angelou


Posts: 1477 | Registered: Dec 2011
stillhere09
♀ Member
Member # 24924
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Boundaries now include: NO HELPING ANYONE BUT YOUR WIFE, MOTHER & SISTER! I don't care if the woman needs CPR or for someone to talk her off a ledge, you scream for help & get your ass home. Sad...but HE put himself in the situations to require such boundaries.

The above quote is the only way to save a KISA from himself! That boundary is a must.

My KISA took OW home from work while I had to walk home from work. 4 miles in such extreme heat I just about had a heat stroke. I'll never forget that day. I had locked my key in the car, and I called him because I knew he was on his way home from work and he had a spare key to my car. It would have worked out fine, but he had to take his slut home first.

That's just one example of many.

Catlover, I do see your point. I thought the same way. Everyone needs to feel needed. I never could figure it out, but for some reason, it wasn't enough that I needed him. He had to be needed by other females, too.

Even when he was helping me with something, if I was at work, he had to seek others. He wasn't capable of being an adult and entertaining himself for a few hours. He had to play the hero ALL the time.

When I see KISA my mind automatically interprets it with an SS on the end - kissass.

My KISA would "help" even men. It took me years to realize why. These men who needed help had a wife or daughter that he was after. They became his prey.

As someone pointed out, the KISA is often the prey of a user who cares not that she is destroying his M. She wants to destroy his M so that she gets all his money, time and attention. She's too stupid to realize that all his money will go to alimony & child support if the M ends.

I saw this trait in my H when we were in our first years of M. I told him I admired him for his helpful ways and I wanted to be his partner in it. I figured that was the smartest way for me to handle it, because I saw what a problem it could become. OH, NO! No, he didn't want that. HE wanted to get ALL the glory himself. Big waving red flag!

A KISA ia a predator looking for his prey, plain and simple, no matter what they try to tell you, that's the way it is. They often find a user who is after prey herself, and they get sucked in. Serves them right.


Me-50 BW
Him-55,STBXWH

Walk a Mile In My Shoes
Married 14 yrs. Now Separated & in NC
2 grown DD's - his from previous M
4 grown kids (2DS, 2DD) mine from previous M


Posts: 3020 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: Ohio
KBeguile
♂ Member
Member # 38348
Default  Posted: 10:02 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm just going to say this to agree with this thread: KISAs NEED to establish boundaries for themselves, or they're just going to end up repeating similar behaviors. It's one of the first things Heart pointed out with me, and I've kept it forefront of mind ever since.


Me: fWS 32
Her: BS 35 (HeartInADustpan)
DS: 4yo
M: 7 years
DDays: 2012/11/14, 2013/02/05, 2013/03/09
-
"Everything that happens now is happening 'now.'"
"What happened to 'then'?"
"We passed 'then.'"

Posts: 754 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: St. Louis
NikkiD
♀ Member
Member # 38173
Default  Posted: 10:10 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And he went out of the way to be there for her, while I really needed his support, since we had moved away from my career, family, friends, support network......KISA thing only seems to operate for needy others- not for your own partner....

Thats is the part that fycks me up. Sure I can fend for myself, but sucka, I married you so you could be MY HELPMATE not every damn body elses.


"Spoil me with Loyalty; I can finance myself...."
ME: BS-33
HE: WS-32
Married 3 years, known 20
2 kids
D-Day #1 12/30/12
False Recovery
D-Day #2 1/21/14
LTA 5 years-ish
Riding the "Struggle Bus"
Living apart....

Posts: 668 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Midwest
HFSSC
♀ Member
Member # 33338
Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm wondering how does it jump from listening/providing advice to the DIDs to screwing them? And in doing so, jeopardizing EVERYthing??

JM asked me this one day. He said he had never intended for anything to happen, he was only trying to be her friend. He could not understand how he ended up getting kicked out of our house and then in bed with her.

Then he said he was afraid that while he was getting his sh*t together, some guy who already had it together would come along and "rescue" me. I told him the answer to both those questions was the same: I had boundaries and he didn't.

I said to him, "You didn't protect yourself and you didn't protect us. First you opened up your life to her. Then you opened up your heart to her. Then you opened up your pants."

That's how it happened for us.


Me, 47
Him, 40 (JMSSC)
married 17 years. In R. We are making it. The past does not define who we are today.

Posts: 2654 | Registered: Sep 2011 | From: South Carolina
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 11:24 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I get that. But when I needed him he wasnt there for me. I lost my grandfather and father within 6 mos of each other. He wasnt there for me. When I did ask for his help, he would literally tell me "you're smart, you'll figure it out"...I guess the wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the most oil

I think people assume that the "saving" is altruistic. Not at all. It's like any collector. Needs new sources. You've been collected. Now for fresh.

They aren't seeing anyone's pain with the empathy part of the brain anymore than sharks see floundering as something need to assist with. They're looking for their toothpicks.

They just don't recognize the margay. These little suckers can mimic the sounds of baby monkeys then when the adults come in for the save...surprise, surprise, surprise. Deceiptively cute little suckers, and voila...predator becomes prey. 

[This message edited by uncertainone at 11:33 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
onel0ve25
♀ Member
Member # 35974
Default  Posted: 2:54 PM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Definitely! I've told him if he wants to feel like he needs to help/save someone, to help his children & save his wife from further heartache. He's been good about not helping since Dday, he's learned that it's not his problem to save everyone & their mother.


Me: 21, 1 EA/PA 5/10-6/10
Him: 24, multiple online EAs, 2 EA/PAs 7/10-2/12
Our littles: Bunny, 3 & Teddy, 5 <3
A couple of mad hatters hoping for a happy ending...
Together 7 years, Married 3 years
I won't stumble upon something behind me.

Posts: 108 | Registered: Jun 2012
mindbody
♀ Member
Member # 27941
Default  Posted: 4:37 PM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This discussion sheds some light for me and at the same time confuses me. I'd love to have "the answers" in a clear cut, definitive way that puts WSO's affair in an unmistakable category, labeled with the ingredients and directions for the future. This topic just reminds me of all the possible pieces to the puzzle.

On SI we discuss 2 people having an affair as being "broken". IMO both affair partners want/need to believe they are K(S)ISA:

The word "knight" gives it a far more noble ring than it deserves. It's really just predatory behavior of looking for the "weak" to feed themselves. "Funny" thing is the "weak" they find ain't so weak at all.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. WSO wants/needs to believe OW was less responsible. Perhaps if he believes this he can still be a "dry" KISA. So I am wondering why: because of his own grandiosity, his issues with power or control, or/and resentment:

See I didn't need him, not in that way. And I wasn't going to ever be that way. Just not who I am.

I understand compliments and appreciation. Reading the posts about an insatiable hunger for validation from other people - again, IMO both WSO and OW gave/received their admiration fix while playing the part of KISA.

There's a world of difference between doing something or helping someone while expecting nothing in return and being a KISA while participating in infidelity.

As in, do KISAs just bullshit their way into Vaginatown?

They both put a lot of time and effort into foreplay in the form of conversation, validation, secrets, flirting, justifying, etc. I think and believe it took a lot of thought, effort, and energy to be in a LTA. It eventually becomes impossible to maintain the KISA behavior in an affair.

Needs new sources. They aren't seeing anyone's pain with the empathy part of the brain.

Not a great recipe for R and I'm sure most Bs have thought about both.


Posts: 298 | Registered: Mar 2010
crazyblindsided
♀ Member
Member # 35215
Default  Posted: 4:43 PM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

When I see KISA my mind automatically interprets it with an SS on the end - kissass.

^ I love this by the way I think I will use it as my new term for KISA.


BS/FWS (me):40 Madhatter
WS/BS:42 Serial Cheater
Together 18 years, Married 13
DD(10) DS(7)
DDay(s) 5/08, 5/09, 3/30/12
Final Dday 7/11/14 Affair never ended

Posts: 2266 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: California
naivewife
♀ Member
Member # 38375
Default  Posted: 7:34 AM, March 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was talking to WH about the whole KISA thing last night and mentioned how like with him, so many here mention how their WS's were "saving" the AP while their own BS was in a time of need and were being ignored. This rings true for us as well because we had just had a baby and WH basically ditched me to rescue this OW (whom he only knew for a few weeks) from her psycho-somatic illness - all the while I'm begging him for help with our children and managing our home life. Then it dawned on me - do KISA's help other people rather than their own family because when they help dumsels in distress, they are a hero, gaining mass amounts of praise and validation (which they crave) vs. helping their family, which is simply fulfilling their responsibilities which won't garner nearly as much validation? This seemed to be a lightbulb moment for WH.
It's like if he washes the dishes here, if I'm not busy with other things and notice I might say something like "Hey, thanks for doing that" but if he knocks on the neighbor woman's door and says "I'm here wash your dishes" she would be all "Oh my goodness, what an amazing man you are! No one has ever done anything like this for me." and calling all the neighbors to tell them what an incredible guy he is that he came to her house just to wash the dishes for her. Kind a silly analogy, but you see what I'm saying?


D-day #1 - 1/23/13
false R, then...
D-day #2 - 3/26/13
I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons. - Hippocratic Oath

Posts: 341 | Registered: Feb 2013
sailorgirl
♀ Member
Member # 38162
Default  Posted: 10:39 AM, March 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

KISA's help other people rather than their own family because when they help dumsels in distress, they are a hero, gaining mass amounts of praise and validation (which they crave) vs. helping their family, which is simply fulfilling their responsibilities which won't garner nearly as much validation

Naivewife, this rings so true for me. WH was actually a helpful husband and an involved father. But deep down, he "knew" he was a bad seed (childhood abuse, never dealt with). When his fear of being a worthless failure got triggered, he needed a huge infusion of hero worship, not just acknowledgement of responsibilities fulfilled.

OW (let's have it stand for Overwhelming Wreckage) was ready and willing to tell him he was her one and only KISA.


Married 14 years, three amazing kids
H had 17 month EA/PA
D-day 1/5/13
Reconcilling

Posts: 787 | Registered: Jan 2013
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 11:15 AM, March 1st (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Steven (Stephen) Karpman IDed the Drama Triangle in which there are 3 roles - Victim, Rescuer, and Persecutor. It looks to me like KISAs take on the Rescuer role.

Sisoon mentioned the Karpman Triangle. I fall into the Rescuer category most of the time, but easily cycle through the other roles too. I recognize where this came from in my childhood.

The Rescuer can be seen a KISA but for myself I see the similarities with control patterns of codependent behavior too. I tried to fix situations and people. It was instinct. I'd give an opinion whether the person wanted it or not.

Soon, I would get bored or frustrated if I saw that the person was not trying to fix themselves....and why should they if I was there to do it for them? Then I would drop them and move on to something else. I didn't want the person to stay indebted to me, or to stay in the victim role too long. I wanted them to see the error of their ways and straighten up.

I don't think I was looking to be seen as a hero. Validation from the person was not my main goal or reward. But we all get something out of a behavior or we wouldn't do it. I think liked feeling I was competent and useful, someone with all the answers, until I was expected to have all the answers and then I would get overwhelmed and annoyed. Makes perfect sense.

None of this is easy to identify, especially when you are in the middle of it and it's even harder to change when it's played out a million times before.

Of course, affairs are the perfect triangle, with all 3 roles in play. I found it the easiest to examine and then see how the same behavior played out in other triangles in my life.


Growing forward

Posts: 1737 | Registered: Sep 2011
darklilly23
♀ New Member
Member # 39457
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, July 9th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So what is it that fuels a KISA?

My stbxh had a old flame call for a shoulder to cry on when she was getting a divorce, however stbxh
knew how much it hurt me, we went through a bunch of MC's all saying that it was wrong and now we are headed down the road to the big D.
stbxh knows that the relationship he has with OW (which they are now exploring feelings they have for each other that would not be there if I had left well enuf alone) is going crash and burn but he would rather go save all his exs than his own wife and marriage.
I just don't get it, what he is getting out of it, or what he could possibly stand to gain.

[This message edited by darklilly23 at 8:47 PM, July 9th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2013
soveryalone1
♂ Member
Member # 39807
Default  Posted: 4:51 PM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am still getting used to all these abbreviations , but KISA is one I think I knew, Ye my old friend had a KISA fantasy for years and years he used to talk about this married woman he was having a thing with , and how he wanted to rescue her away from her unhappy marriage. Guess that didn't work but he finally got his fantasy fulfilled with me and my Ex. He say there chatting with me and with her in facebook messages and I was telling him that her and I were in a really really bad place. And shared a few more things that he later used against me, but he just swooped right in, and began the EA with her , not taking away any blame from her, it takes 2 to tango , they say, and I take plenty blame as well, but in any case , the little that I do know about their EA and now relationship , is that she has driven the 3 1/2 hours to visit him twice now, and just thinking about how badly she wanted me gone and how badly she needed to go be with him makes me ill, but whatever, we feel the pain and process it right? anyways I was 100% sure by now he would have already moved in with her, he was laying the ground work for that before I even left, but He is still in his state and she in still in hers, so I do wish them both well, and all the happiness in the world, but I really hope neither of them try to contact me, hurt me ever again. anyways the whole KISA concept is interesting ... a concept I like better is , hey sir or mam how about you stay the fuck out of my relationship , thanks


jao

Posts: 75 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Vermont USA
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