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the whys, excuses, and explanations for lying, cheating, and betraying your spouse is just crap, in my opinion. (i'm venting here)....but this is how i feel. i have been through hell and back with my husband. and you know initially, i needed to understand why he did this...i wanted an explanation...anything.

was it me? was he unhappy? was the marriage bad? was the sex not good? was she prettier than me? better body, maybe? better sex? did we not communicate? well, he had a lot of issues with his dad...was that it? well, he never felt like he was loved? he never got enough attention? when i was pregnant, he felt left out? not enough attention? what could i have done better? did i not listen to him? talk about his job enough? stress? not happy? we're fighting too much? he is overwhelmed about being a new dad? it was his childhood? his dad abandoned the family? it was how he was raised? his friends are a bad influence?

and the list goes on and on, and on....and you know what? after all the answers that i was given....to the answer to these questions....some were not answered...but that doesnt matter anymore....what i have learned is that IT IS ALL A BUNCH OF CRAP!

THE BOTTOM line is that my husband cheated on me....because he wanted to do it....PERIOD. now, i can sit here and go on all forever about why he did it...he needs ic, he needs help....he needs this and that to figure out the why.....blah, blah, blah....he cheated becasue he wanted to. and here is the dirty truth:

1. the sex was not bad...he liked it, that is why he kept doing it. i have stopped kidding myself on this...and refuse to believe for one minute that my husband didnt like it. of course he liked it. he got excited about what he saw, got an erection, and had an orgasm...over and over again. i will not accept bullsit about this.

2. he didnt wear a condom all the time...of course not. it felt too good. i refuse to make excuses about that too. he knew exactly what he was doing...and made the decion that the sex was so good that he wanted to feel flesh on flesh....he did that.

3. sure he is broken and has a lot of issues...but he knew what he was doing. even if the answer to all the questions that i listed out was yes...he still could have made the decision not to cheat. he plotted, schemed, and sought out other women because that is what he wanted to do.

4. he abused substances becasue he liked the party lifestyle...partying, cheating, drugs and alcohol all went along with the party lifestyle...and he had fun doing it...make no mistake about it.

5. guilt? to me, that is crap...he didnt feel guilt when he was cheating...he kept doing it. that is a load of crap.

so...now fast forward to now....we are trying to r...and he is doing everyhting he needs to do to reestablish trust...he's in rehab, fully transparent, stopped drinking, in mc....all friends gone...he seems completely committed to our marriage....but it is still early. it is going to take a longtime to repair the marriage...and he knows that.

but what has helped me is that i have STOPPED accepting excuses, the whys, and the explanations. i have come to realize that they will never make me feel better. never. he did that. he did all the horrible things because it was exactly what he wanted to do. and he would have kept doing it until he got busted. it hurts to write that...but it is the truth! and once and for all, that is all i want to deal with. i do not want to play the "why game" anymore!

he was a jerk, and a monster who was acting like an immature college kid at 40...thinking he could "get away with it."

bottom line is that i put his ass out of this house and did a complete 180...not even a 180 really...i packed up all his shit and put it outside. and we were separated for 3 months. he could come back until decided to make some serious changes in his life....and respected the boundaries that i set for my own emotional safety. and the first order of business was rehab...the second was complete access to his phone records...the on line bills that show the call detail. i wasnt interested in having access to this physical phone...no way...i wanted the bill...and i wanted to go back as long as i wanted to see everything. and that is exactly what i did.

and it was all bad. but i needed to know the truth before i could do anything. and as we move forward through this reconcilation process....i have come to accept that none of the whys, excuses, and explanations mean shit.

he needs to own what he did. admit that he made some horrific mistakes, and take full and complete responsibility for what he WANTED to do. dont blame anything, or anyone...dont blame the drugs, dont blame the booze, dont blame friends....the marriage....nothing....he did that because it was exactly what he wanted to do.

as much as it hurt me...the truth is what i needed. so when he said what he said below the other day, i finally felt like we were making some progress...i take it day by day, you know?

after i told him that i felt like a fool, and how hurt i was for all his lies...he said that. now the healing can continue....

"i know i have hurt you...terribly. i dont want to say i am sorry anymore. you already know that. what i want to do is show you with my consistent actions of honest behavior that i am a changed man. one thing i want to do is take complete responsility for what i have done. there is nothing that justifies why i did what i did. nothing. it was all foul. i dont want to lose you or our family, and i will do whatever it takes...what ever it takes. and i know it will take a long time to regain your trust. i hope that you see me being in rehab, our mc, and me being fully transparent with you as actions that show i want to change."

that is what i needed him to say. stop making excuses and bullshitting me. just be accountable. you cheated, and kept doing it because you liked it, and thouhgt you could get away with it....you did that. now, show me that you DESERVE to be with me.

you know?

Totally get it.

but what has helped me is that i have STOPPED accepting excuses, the whys, and the explanations. i have come to realize that they will never make me feel better. never. he did that. he did all the horrible things because it was exactly what he wanted to do. and he would have kept doing it until he got busted. it hurts to write that...but it is the truth! and once and for all, that is all i want to deal with. i do not want to play the "why game" anymore!

God, I cannot wait until my mind gets to that point in the process. I hate the why game. I logically know nothing can be gained, but feel like I'd go mad if I don't "know."

I think the realization that you have come too is the hardest thing for waywards and betrayed spouses to come to terms with.

Waywards do not want to think of themselves that way, and neither do their betrayed spouses.

The pain of the betrayal makes you want to rationalize it and blame it on anything but the real truth.

It was a selfish, self-serving, event, with no thought to anyone elses feelings. It puts everyone in harms way, and they just don't care. It is an insanity that they hate to look at, and we as betrayed spouses don't know if we can love someone who truly behaved that way.

There were a lot of things going on in our marriage and in my husbands life also, but neverthless, he did a terrible thing, to me and to himself. He still has a hard time coming to terms with that, but I see it as you do, and am watching him build himself into a better human that I can truly love.

Long process, but we are getting there. Good insights, thanks for the post. K

Each situation is unique, yet there are so many similarities. To paint it all the same for every situation is not realistic, yet when questions are asked, they are going to be answered based on that individuals experiences and those experiences may or may not apply.

thanks for the replies. one thing that i also wanted to add...and it is very important.

he knew all of the risks....he knew that it would hurt me, he knew that his behavior could give me a disease...even kill me...he knew that it could destroy the family, that it would be humiliating if caught...he knew all the risks....and he also knew very, very, very well that if i ever found out, he would just break my heart.

but he did it anyway...he knew exactly what he was doing. but felt at the time that it was WORTH the risk..and he did that.

it was a shitty thing to do. that's it.

forget about all the whys, excuses, and explanations...it will not make me feel any better.

if anything...it is just another form of rugsweeping...even if some bad thing happend to him as a kid...or the drs said he had some mental problem....he still knew what he was doing...and did what he wanted...knowing all the risks.

the "drs diagnosis", childhood trauma, or even additions dont make it any better...doesnt mean a damn thing anymore in my book.

you still did it.

thanks baxter...but the answers to the questions in the end mean nothing..at least not for me. it doesnt make the pain any less....nope. in the beginning...sure it made me feel better to think there was a good "why." and there is not.

when i started to accept that, then i could move forward.

he did what he did because he liked it, got away with it..adn thought he could contunue until he got busted.

plain and simple.

the waywards need to just own that....stopped with the excuses...which to me is just trying to weasel out of the truth again...and just be accountable.

someone on here...a wise SIer told me "you cant make sense out of nonsense." and that is so true. cheating is nonsense. and i am going to stop trying to "understand" why he did it.

the waywards need to just own that....stopped with the excuses...which to me is just trying to weasel out of the truth again...and just be accountable.

This fits your situation. It doesn't fit others. To make a blanket statement like this to the WS here is totally negating the shit they are trying to work through.

That's where the statement that "each situation is unique, but similar" comes into play.

ETA - adding that I think it is great that you've realized this about your own WH. Sometimes it is just that.

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 11:50 PM, February 9th (Saturday)]

"i know i have hurt you...terribly. i dont want to say i am sorry anymore. you already know that. what i want to do is show you with my consistent actions of honest behavior that i am a changed man. one thing i want to do is take complete responsility for what i have done. there is nothing that justifies why i did what i did. nothing. it was all foul. i dont want to lose you or our family, and i will do whatever it takes...what ever it takes. and i know it will take a long time to regain your trust. i hope that you see me being in rehab, our mc, and me being fully transparent with you as actions that show i want to change."

This is what I need to hear as we'll excuses are bullshit. They change nothing. They all made choices and need to own their actions and the actions to repair the damages

and have you noticed that over time...it always seems to be more than one why, excuse or explanation? and it can vary. it may have been all of the those things...or maybe just one thing...but none of them make a bit of difference in the end.

and you know what? i know this because when i was given a why, excuse or explanation...for a while i felt "better." i did. but i was kidding myself..because deep down...and you know...the times where you are really honest with yourself...like in the car, or shower, or when you are lying in bed about to go to sleep...and cant stop thinking about all of this...it is during this time...that you know in your GUT that it is all BS. you just know. but because we love them, and want to work it out, and keep the marriage...we "accept" the why, excuse, and explanation. that is what i did. and i never felt good about it...not for long.

and pretty soon, i was back to feeling terrible...and asking all the same questions again. almost like i thought he could say it again, or give me another why, excuse, or explanation that would make me feel better this time.

and it never did. never. i always knew in my heart that he had a choice. kind of like when i used to pretend to myself that it was "just sex...and not that good." yeah right. it was good...it certainly wasnt that bad. he kept going back. you know?

my truth came when i finally accepted that there wasnt a "why", "excuse", or "explanation" in the world that would ever, and i mean ever make me feel any better about what he did. not even a "note from the dr."

Hi sri624 – you have hit the nail on the head which is very hard for some to swallow. People choose to have affairs! Simple.

Undoubtedly a myriad of varied issues in the background will have created the desire to stray. These may have resulted from the state of the marriage, something unbalanced in the background, narcissism or just plain selfishness – looking after number one at any cost.

In the initial stages after discovery we try to find meaning as to why we were betrayed. Often we feel like it was our fault – maybe we did something wrong or possibly we didn’t do something that we should have. Then we realise that the affair wasn’t about us and we displace our anger and frustration largely onto the OP. That provides a safety valve of sorts that gives us the respite to try and rebuild bridges with our spouse.

Finally the realisation comes that it wasn’t the OP luring our spouse away – sure he or she also decided to enter the toxic relationship. It was our spouse who made the conscious decision to abandon their oath and have an affair. They could have tried to meaningfully address any marital imbalances, or made their desires known in such a way that they could have been addressed in the marriage or at least brought to a head so that the way forward could have been determined within the confines of the relationship. But no they chose to go outside the principal relationship. The whys and wherefores need to be understood and addressed after the event and during that reconciliation process, but entering in to an affair was not an innocent or chance happening that our WS just happened to get dragged along in. It was very conscious and deliberate decision and one probably not made on the spot but after a great deal of consideration.

That doesn’t make things easy but there is nothing to be gained in trying to exonerate our WS for that decision!

The whys might help me sympathize a little, but I agree that at the end of the day the WS made choices, selfish choices.

But I do think it is important for us as a couple to know the whys. For me, the whys are about him working through his boundary issues and finding his vulnerabilities to he can guard against them. To help us as a couple to recognise danger points and be able to talk openly.

IMO, the why's do matter. You can't fix what you don't know is broken. I agree that there will never be a why that makes a BS feel any better, hands down. IMO, having a WS who knows they have issues and flaws and is willing to figure out those flaws and fix them.... that is very valuable and goes a long way in helping repair the M that they have ruined. Doing the work to get to the weakness and working on it is definitely not rug sweeping. If one chooses to avoid any responsibility in their M and focus solely on fixing their issues, then yes, that is rug sweeping. But fixing yourself and working on your M isn't rug sweeping and I'm not sure how it could be.

And definitely not every WS has an A because they like it and they can and that's it. I happen to know that there are many people who will actually punish themself with an A. Some have risky sex as a way to get a disease so they can "kill" themself without having to be messy about it. Doesn't sound fun and exciting to me. Some have A's because they are cowards and can't end their M so they want the BS to do it after DDay. And lots and lots of other un-fun reasons.

It sounds like you might be having a bad day, and I really am sorry you are in this place. Vent away, and may tomorrow bring you more peace. (((Sri)))

Great post!

I think the Whys are important for the WS to work out, for themselves, to help fix their brokenness if that is what they are inclined to do.

BUT as far as I am concerned I couldn't care less WHY he did it. The bottom line is he did it. He valued sleeping with his ho-worker more than he valued me. He chose her. That's it. No explanations will alter that fact that HE PICKED HER. He went back more than 40 times, he slept all night in her bed more than 40 times, he fucked her senseless more than 40 times. Why? Because he liked it.

Thank you sri624,

Understand everyones situation is different, but this is the kick in the butt that I need. It gives me much to think about Take care

I firmly believe in knowing the why but you are spot on on this...

Knowing the why doesn't make it any less painful. This is SO TRUE.

I think in my case it has even increased the confusion and made it harder to heal but we would have never made it to where we are without it and we are in a good place.

Infidelity sucks!

You know, i am actually having a better day than i have had in a while...even with him. Why?? Because i am accepting that his "why" is irrelevant when it comes to the pain i feel. It wont make me feel better. Like some of you said...the "why" can help him because we all know that theyare screwed up...let him get some "help" for that as mine is. But me...no way do i feel better at all.

I remember watching oprah interview bill clinton long after that monica fiasco...and she asked him "why did you do that?" And he said..."Because i could." And she applauded him for being brutally honest. "Because he could, and because he wanted to...and because he like it and didnt think he would get caught." Does he have a "bunch of issues?" I bet he does...may need to see a shrink, maybe he didnt get enough love as a kid...but he still did that.

I remember my mom years ago talking to me about men...she is so wise. But of course at the time i was naive about cheating...i just was. But she was not. I remember asking her if all men cheat. She said..."No, they dont. It just depends on if he is 'that kind of guy'." Now..i really think about that..."That kind of guy..." My husband IS "that kind of guy." This applies to women as well.

You are either a cheater or not. You are the type of person to lie like this, or you are not.

It IS that black and white for me now. There is no in between. The "in-between" is the whys, excuses, and explanations.". You did that because you are "that" kind of person.

Now...i think anybody can change their behavior. If they really want to. But they still are who they are. They can go to ic, get help, work through those feelings of abandonment, addictions, low self esteem, "i hate myself" issues...but in the end they are still a cheater...and that doesnt make me feel any better.

I would now rather be with my husband knowing the ugly truth. He's'a cheater and knew exactly what he was doing. NO PASSES for anything. You are who you are. Glad your getting help but i know what i am dealing with. The continued trustworthy actions are the only thing keeping the marriage intact. I already "heard" his reasons and he doesnt get a lollipop for telling me his "issues." Show me. That's'it.

He might as well keep all that other crap to himself because i already KNOW "what kind of a guy he is." You know?

You are so right. People do things because they choose to. Period. My WW has told me over and over it was her broken insatiable inner child who couldn't get enough attention that caused it to happen. No. She did it. Like i told the IC, she and her inner child are one and the same. They are not two separate people. And she chose to do it. She says she didn't think of the consequences. Not once? Bullshit. She chose to cheat on me. That's it period. The reasons might have seemed important in the beginning but they were definitely and still are a form of rugsweeping. There is no good reason to have an A. Just admit you did it because you wanted to and be done.

sri624,

I've been crying off and on all day because your post hit such a nerve. And everyone else's posts who said the whys don't matter.

I'm only one month past d-day and I'm still searching for that why that makes it so WH can still be the guy I thought he was. But there is no such thing. He is a cheater. The one quality I wanted most in my husband is lacking.

How can I stay with him? How can I tell my three innocent children who adore him that we're getting divorced? How can I throw away 12 honestly wonderful years? WH was a terrific husband and dad until the A.

i always knew in my heart that he had a choice. kind of like when i used to pretend to myself that it was "just sex...and not that good." yeah right. it was good...it certainly wasnt that bad. he kept going back. you know?

That's another super confusing thing. I believe WH on the details of the sex and it was bad bad bad. Silent, no foreplay, missionary every time, and he had to masturbate to get hard. Never tender, never intimate, never passionate, never enjoying her body. He had to think of other things and go as fast as possible to come. He felt horrible before, during and after.

But he must have wanted that because he kept going back. How could he want that when he had me at home (our sex life is the complete opposite what he had with OW)?

He says there was no ego boost, just felt worse and worse about himself. There was no sense of relief or high. He hated the sneaking and lying. He was not attracted to OW, and there was nothing interesting or appealing about her. She spend 80% of their time crying, accusing, begging, needing. I have never seen my WH as abjectly miserable as he was when he had been with her (he was having suicidal thoughts).

So, did he do it because he liked it and he wanted to?

I am lost.

Because i am accepting that his "why" is irrelevant when it comes to the pain i feel. It wont make me feel better. Like some of you said...the "why" can help him because we all know that theyare screwed up...let him get some "help" for that as mine is. But me...no way do i feel better at all.

Sounds like you have come to a place of acceptance of what your WH did, and that is great to be in that place. However, for me, acceptance is one thing, but the WHY is an important part of the healing process, for me and especially my H. The way I see it is, if he can't figure out all the "stuff" that led him down this path, and continued to direct his decision making, both during his insanity period, and the nearly 18 months after dday, when he was saying he wanted R, but kept making choices that showed otherwise, we will be in the exact same place sometime in the future.

What happens when life throws him a new challenge and he reverts back to his old coping mechanisms? To me, this is exactly why he needs to figure out his why, so he doesn't repeat old behaviors.

I agree that his why can't take away the pain you feel right now. Nothing they can say to us will ever make the pain we feel right, if that makes any sense. Thanks for sharing your perspective. ((sri))

this whole post really resonates with me. I am struggling with the why's and how could you's...but at the end of the day, when the smoke clears, the simple fact is...he cheated. there were a million other choices he could have made. but he made the one that would destroy everything. Why? because he could. because she stroked his ego. because she made him feel wanted. boo-fucking-hoo. are you going to screw everyone that strokes your ego? Give me a break. you are grown up.

So now, i struggle every single day with the fact that i have to accept the fact that there is no why that will satisfy me. Sure, it will help HIM heal. He will know why he did what he did so he wont do it again. Sure, it will help ME knowing why, because it helps answer the questions that need answering.

but at the end of the day...i have to decide if i can accept the fact that he did what he did because he wanted to. because he made a choice to. I have to decide of i can accept the fact that I meant so little to him that he chose someone else over me.