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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-10
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:10 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UCLAMOM, I was wondering how you were doing. I want to ponder a while on how I want to respond to your sitch. I can identify with a lot of your concerns but I need some time to make what I want to say coherent, LOL.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 2:32 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Hath for the great advice on group!! The CSAT office in my town does run women's groups and I am going to email. What I may do is alternate weeks on IC versus Group. Naturegirl, I know what you mean that this can start to feel very overwhelming time and energy and stress-wise. I feel like a professional patient these days!

UCLAmom, a missing piece of info for me is whether your husband is in recovery without relapse or whether there is is relapse and possibility for that to affect your kids or for them to find out. Assuming he is in recovery without sexual acting out and without porn viewing in the house, I see what a tough decision that is. What is unclear to me though is why it is divorce would be devastating to a high schooler but a child making that huge transition to college or, as is often the case, getting their sea legs still at year 2 or 3 of college? I don't think there is a perfect time and your needs count in the balance too.

Is splitting the difference an option worth considering? That is, taking three or so years to get yourself in the position you need to be financially and professionally and then divorcing when your kids are in high school.


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 2:56 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UCLAmom, before I go into my thoughts, I wanted to throw a few things out there for you and maybe others.

SA phone meetings are available for the SAs in all flavors and multiple times of day. So that is an option if the SA does not live near an SA meeting. I believe the info is available on the SA website.

S-Anon has phone meetings as well, I think. They do not list the stuff online though. You have to contact S-Anon to get the info. Not sure if phone or email is best. So there is that option too.

I have heard good things about COSA meetings, if that is an option, and I have also heard good things about Al-Anon meetings as a substitute for S-Anon. It's worth going once to see it is a good fit.

Also, remind me, are you in therapy for yourself? Because that is critical for you now. You are stuck, and need a pro to guide you through this roadblock.

Again, I have other stuff I want to say because I so strongly identify with so much of what you posted, but I need some time to sort it out in my head first.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 6:08 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, UCLAMOM. I have had some time to collect my thoughts. I am going to give you my perspective on the stuff I identify with, YMMV of course. I am also going to presume you are effectively about 7 months out from finding out he's SA, given your tagline. If that's not true my apologies but what I say may still apply. And CDS this may answer some of the questions you initially had on SI before you found this thread.

So when I found out 23 months ago, my world was shattered. I couldn't imagine how I could possibly recover from it. I figured our M was destroyed, how could I possibly trust and have a relationship with someone capable of doing what he did. Every day brought on a new discovery of more evidence of how deep it went. I couldn't stand to look at him, touch him. It was all I could do to fake it in front of the kids that nothing was wrong with mama and daddy. I was basically trying to put one foot in front of the other while getting my ducks in a row. I did want him to get better, seek treatment, etc but that was mainly so he could be a good father to the kids, and I could hopefully avoid the nightmare some of the others here have had with divorcing an SA that refuses treatment.

Fast forward seven months later. He was doing the minimum needed, like yours. He started going to his CSAT and SA meetings. He starting being present and being a good dad. He tried, and often failed, at doing what husbands should do anyway. Wasn't reading books on SA, being proactive in his recovery, basically doing the minimum to meet my boundaries because that was all he could do at that stage of the process. I was super frustrated he wasn't any further along than he was, and he was super frustrated he wasn't being recognized for doing what he was "supposed" to be doing. What I didn't know what it was because he hadn't admitted to himself how bad it was, he hadn't totally accepted he was an addict, hadn't fully disclosed the extent of his problem to me or anyone else, hadn't even truly taken the first step, let alone the other 11 of the 12 steps. So I was totally justified at seven months out to be feeling disgusted and frustrated and all those things you are feeling because things were not as they seemed, and were not what I needed, even though I didn't know to what extent. In your case, are you feeling that way because it's not what you need, or is your gut telling you there is more to the story?

My goal all along was to try to go the 2-5 year route to heal with us both in the same house, at least co-parenting if not a real couple. Have my ducks in a row in case he did not choose recovery, but try to make it easier for everyone by staying together as long as everyone was safe during that time. I wanted to be able to tell my kids, if we split up, I did everything in my power to avoid D. However, I never intended to stay with him long term if I wasn't getting what I needed from the relationship, even for the kids. I didn't want to model a relationship I didn't want my kids to have, KWIM? They do what they see, that is their normal.

I can tell you, now, 23 months later, I can look at him, enjoy his company, hold and kiss him, even fool around with him sexually. The mind movies are much fewer and farther between. I can't have sex with him and I can't totally trust him yet. He has not progressed enough to earn that from me. But I can model a good relationship for my kids, of what they see. But he had to do a lot of work, as did I, to get there. Lots of therapy, lots of recovery work. We are by no means a real married couple IMHO, we are a couple still working on our individual recovery and exploring the possibility of long term R. As long as he continues to do the work and make progress, that is how it will be. If he doesn't, I have my ducks in a row enough to split households and D.

I don't want to be in a position where I am only staying for the kids. That's not healthy for anyone, kids included They will pick up the bad vibes, even if only subconciously and wind up doing them in their future relationships. And I deserve better than that anyway.

I don't think it's bad to stay together while we work on ourselves/recovery and co-parent, in addition to exploring R, as long as boundaries are maintained and needs are met. The kids still see two parents loving and supporting each other. As long as that happens, and the boundaries and needs are met, we can stay in the same house and remain married. But even that can't go on forever unless it looks like we can really R long term. I don't mind doing this under these circumstances, because honestly this works best for me with the kids, and I couldn't possibly think about a new beginning right now until I am further along in my own recovery.

This is long and rambly. I'm not even sure it makes sense. But I guess what I am saying is don't just stay for the kids. Stay because it is what is right for you, and what you need. Stay because it makes sense to do that now while you figure out what you want, and what you need to do to get it. Accept what you feel now, that your feelings are valid, and that your feelings may change as you progress in your own recovery, and that what you want and need to do may change too.

I wish you the very best. I wish I could give you more wisdom than I currently have. I am just sharing what I know as of now.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 10:31 PM, May 2nd (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My SAfWH's counselor is a SAT but not certified. She has done all the training but hasn't gotten the paper. She is good. My IC is an addiction specialist and has read up on and has had experience with SA spouses. She is serving as our MC which has been a good choice for us, although unconventional. There are several CSAT's in our area, and I have heard mixed reviews about them.

I felt much the same way. How could I be a co-dep if I didn't even know about the behaviors? But I was co-dep to the dysfunction. The Sanon sistership wasn't at all fanatic about that piece of the pie. But they ARE right, IMHO, about the part that is essential, and has been reiterated here. WE MUST DETACH AND PUT OURSELVES FIRST. Until we stop trying to change the addict (once we find out about it) we cannot find peace. We cannot monitor their every move, but we can set boundaries. Sanon was particularly helpful while I was trying to figure out how to do this without being co-dep or controlling. And it SO helped to hear that I wasn't alone.

There are limitations to group work such as a 12 step, self monitoring program. I tend to become too "helpful" IRL, thinking that my problems aren't worth sharing with others because I need to help THEM with theirs. (anyone recognize themselves here?) And this is where SI is so valuable to me. I can be sad and whiny, dependent or needy and all of you will reach out to help ME. I get that nowhere else, and have NEVER gotten that anywhere, anytime in my life, not even when I was a small child.

So, thanks, sisters (lurking brothers?) Keep up the self care. We are all worth it!

********(((((((((SPOUSES)))))))))**********


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
UCLAMOM23
♀ New Member
Member # 36653
Frustrated  Posted: 12:24 AM, May 3rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Hath & CD,

Thank you for your opinions and concern. My SAH had a 2 year emotional/physical affair when my oldest son was a toddler and we were separated for about 6 months. (I actually met someone in Parents Without Partners and dated him for a while at that time. He was a nice, normal guy who was in the same situation I was in. It gave me hope that there are nice guys out there.)

As soon as I caught him, he cried and begged and swore that he would be a better husband, and that our marriage wasn't good for him and he wanted to fix it. I decided to try to work things out, because he seemed very sincere and I didn't want to raise our baby as a single parent. We had about 2 years of marriage counseling and moved about 200 miles away from the bad memories to start our life over.

We had two more beautiful kids and I was eventually able to put the past behind me. Truthfully, it took me about 10 years to just stop thinking about his affair. Although he was always emotionally distant and always working long hours, I thought we had a decent life. Our kids are well adjusted and happy, and we always did family activities on the weekends and at night.

I discovered very explicit emails between him and two different women at work, and he fessed up to sexting numerous women during our marriage. He also told me that he had sex with one of them on two different occasions about 10 years ago and was fondled by a hooker on a business trip during this same time period.

So, here I am again. He told me that when he had his big affair 15 years ago, he was lying to me, the counselor, and himself and never admitted he was a sex addict. He told me that he has been acting out since he was a teenager, he was addicted to porn, etc. He has been working on SA stuff and I honestly haven't really been involved, because I have disconnected myself from him emotionally. He mentions workbooks, his sponsor, etc., but I really don't ask much.

I asked my IC why I wasn't as devastated as most women seem to be when they discover they are married to a SA, and she said that she thinks that I disconnected from him emotionally 15 years ago and never really gave my heart to him again. I think I've been slugging it out for my kids, and I wonder if I will ever be capable of having a loving, adult relationship with anyone ever again.

I told him that I am here until the kids are out of the house. I just can't bring myself to even think about trusting him again. I was burned too badly. I feel that I've wasted 20 years of my life with him. He was never, ever completely faithful to me during our marriage EVER. He told me that he cheated on me when we were engaged.

He says he wants to be with me someday, but I just don't see that happening. I see my IC, and it helps to vent, but I don't really feel like I'm getting anywhere. My SAH is constantly trying to engage me in activities and speak and listen to me (which he never did during our marriage), but I just don't feel like I can engage with him again. I don't hate him -- he is a decent human being with a big problem. I just hate to think that I have to live my life being married to someone whose relapse means he would be cheating on me again.

My #1 concern is my kids, of course. They think that we're the Cleaver family. We have always been very close do family activities all of the time. My SAH is a good father, and devotes lots of time to them. He has actually become a MUCH better father since I caught him, as he is trying to rewire his brain and not be self-centered and selfish. I know that any divorce would result in a custody battle.

I am capable of supporting myself financially. We have been frugal and have saved money over the years, and I am employed.

So, that's the situation. I really would someday like to be in a relationship where I am not constantly worrying about checking someone's cell phone. I just always wanted to end up with the father of my kids. Other than the elephant in the room, we are very compatible. However, the elephant is huge and I thought that I had gotten rid of it. Boy, was I wrong. I am afraid of ending up alone.


I am: BW 47 years
He is: WH 47 years and has suddenly realized that he's a sex addict

Married 19 years
Together for 25
3 sons: (17, 13, & 11)
D Day 1 - July 1997
D Day 2: 8/29/12


Posts: 32 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: California
sadone29
♀ Member
Member # 38597
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, May 6th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I've found both a CODA and S-Anon group in my area. Are they similar? Anyone have suggestions on which to attend?

*edit* Never mind! I realized I was just putting off making another decision. I called S-Anon and will be going to my first meeting Wednesday!

[This message edited by sadone29 at 2:05 PM, May 6th (Monday)]


SAWH: working hard on all addictions
Out of limbo hell. R Feb. 15
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding -proverbs 3:5

Posts: 448 | Registered: Mar 2013
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, May 6th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UCLAmom, I wonder if you might benefit from shopping a new therapist. In my view, your therapist should be a place to vent but also a place to either work through leaving your marriage or to actively figure out how to find peace within it.

I still wonder if your kids don't suspect a thing. I would just hate to have you sacrifice years of your life only to find out later, as so many parents have, that the kids knew something was wrong and were troubled by it the whole time.

As for being alone, I do tend to think it is better to be with someone in good relationship. However, what many of us are experiencing is not that. It seems to me like you are already pretty alone in the marriage and divorcing may not increase your feelings of loneliness. Just a thought.

I do hear you on the custody issues. That is a major issue for me especially given the possibility that the kids could be exposed to porn or the SA and that could put them at risk.

Think about a few sessions to try out a different therapist. Sometimes we outgrow a therapist or need a different set of skills or approach to keep us growing and healing.


Posts: 210 | Registered: Apr 2013
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, my H and I finally found a way to talk without him getting overly defensive. I had forwarded him an article and he responded with his comments and since then we've been having this odd email conversation which we both totally ignore when together, but at least he's admitting to childhood issues. That's great but so far he's avoided the parts of my emails referring to his sexual compulsions. He refused counseling so of course has not been diagnosed but along with the porn, webcam sites, PAs, EAs, and online sex, I have found evidence of acts which, while victimless, showed progression toward a really scary and probably criminal compulsion.

I did IC for awhile last year and my therapist told me then that my H needed to learn how to self-soothe without acting out sexually and the longer H was able to refrain from his drug of choice (illicit sex), the healthier he would be. As far as I can tell my H has been coping without porn for more than a year now and it's been nearly two years since he's engaged in online or real-life As. He's much calmer now and his anger issues are much better. If he's white-knuckling it, at least the white knuckle is working for the moment.

Do I think his sexual compulsions are gone forever? No. But our situation has a twist to it since he started showing symptoms of a crippling disease two years ago and now uses a walker and is headed to a wheelchair. Based on his current progression I'm guessing we have maybe five years before I lose him and for much of that time period he will be completely dependent on me.

So my question is: should I just ignore his sexual issues and move on? Even if he wanted to act out sexually his lack of mobility would make it extremely difficult now and nearly impossible soon. Sure he could do something online but if that happens then I will find it and I will leave him. Forcing him to address something which is so horribly embarrassing to him may be impossible and I'm not sure I see the upside since both the future and his ability to act on his compulsions are so limited. Plus he really wants to go out of this world as one of the good guys so his motivation to stay good is huge.

So what do you guys say? Would you drop it or keep pressing?


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 58
Married 34 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 612 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 11:25 AM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((PeaceLove))) Wow, that is complicated.

Here's my two cents, obviously I do not have a spouse with rapidly declining health so I can't totally understand all the aspects that go with that. Just my thoughts as a fellow spouse of a SA and what I see from my limited view from the outside.

First off, I disagree about the "victimless crime". He put YOU at risk at the very least. But I understand not wanting to dwell on things you cannot change to make the most of the limited time you have.

I also understand the white-knuckling is working for him now. My guess is the rapidly declining health is what has made that successful for as long as it's gone on, not the white-knuckling itself. What I do know is if you white knuckle and don't set up a plan for relapse and treatment, you are setting yourself up for failure. Mainly because when it all starts to fall apart (and eventually it will) there is no safety net in place to catch him when he falls. I also believe (and this is entirely my opinion) that he would want to die with a clean conscience, and therapy could do that for him. I would push that, only because he has limited time.

I know you think the decline in health will solve the SA issues. But it may not. One of the saddest stories I have heard on SI (and not in this forum) involved a SA with an extreme history who went into treatment and was making significant progress. It looked so good for him, his wife, his family. Then he had a horrific accident and suffered great physical damage and brain damage.

All of the current stuff in his brain appeared to be lost. He would sexually harass the nurses (verbally) in the hospital, because there was no filter left to stop his old ways of thinking and saying them out loud. He would say other things relating to his old behavior that continually traumatized his wife, and tainted how people would perceive him. I cannot imagine dealing with this in real life, after the trauma of dealing with discovery and going into recovery.

I bring this up, not to be negative, but because it seems like it could be a possibility for you. I don't want you to think that his decline is a guarantee to end the pitfalls of SA, because it probably won't, even if not to the degree of this example. I want you to start thinking about what is the best for YOU in your sitch, not just what is best for him and not just what is the easiest/softest landing for what is coming up for him.

IMHO, which is worth about a nickel LOL, if he really loved you and wanted to go out in the most positive light, he would go into therapy NOW and address the elephant(s) in the room. He should do it for himself, to have a clear conscience on his deathbed, and to support YOU and your healing as well as make it easier for you to care for him during the final days.

But again that is easy for me to say on the outside. I know living in it is totally different. I still stand by my general assertion that you need to do what is best for yourself first.

Many hugs during this difficult time. Holding you in the LIGHT...


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 3:58 PM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So my question is: should I just ignore his sexual issues and move on? Even if he wanted to act out sexually his lack of mobility would make it extremely difficult now and nearly impossible soon. Sure he could do something online but if that happens then I will find it and I will leave him. Forcing him to address something which is so horribly embarrassing to him may be impossible and I'm not sure I see the upside since both the future and his ability to act on his compulsions are so limited. Plus he really wants to go out of this world as one of the good guys so his motivation to stay good is huge.

So what do you guys say? Would you drop it or keep pressing?

So, if he did something online, you would leave him? What if it happens when he is wheelchair bound and needs a full-time caretaker - would you leave him then? I'm trying to think of worst-case scenarios for you.

Forcing him to address something that is so horribly embarrassing to him may be impossible - do you think that this is a cake walk for ANYONE? This is incredibly humiliating for everyone involved; your SAWH is not the first one to be embarrassed by his sex addiction.

He really wants to go out of this world as one of the good guys, so his motivation to stay good is huge, -- SA is an addiction, therefore, the person has NO CONTROL over it. As much as your SAWH may want to be "good," if he is a true SA, he doesn't have any control over whether he is "good" or not.

Whether you drop it or keep pressing is entirely up to you. What if he lives for a lot longer than you think? What if he continues with the online stuff as long as he is able? What if you are stuck with an SAWH not in recovery until he dies? Are you ok with that? The advice on this forum is generally not to stay with an SA not in recovery. I don't think it matters that your SA is debilitated. If you feel sorry for him and don't want to make him go through the pain of recovery and you are okay with being treated as less than you deserve until he dies, that is certainly a choice you have. We are not in your situation and don't know all the variables, your history, etc. Only you can decide what is right for you.

Hugs to you, I know this is so hard.


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 4:48 PM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hathnofury: Thank you for pointing out that I am a victim of his sexual compulsions and of course I know that. Believe me, he has been repeatedly reminded of that. I guess I was really wanting someone to tell me that physical limitations would be a safeguard and I can take this burden off my shoulders, that I donít have to feel responsible for forcing him to face his demons. And maybe that the dry drunk phase can last long enough that I can have some hope of it not cycling back before the illness gets him. Because Iím tired of it all and I want to stop thinking about this all the time.

Numb: Would I really leave him if he acted out? In a sense, yes I would. I couldnít just abandon him and walk out the door but I could help him move in with his mother (a fate worse than death!) or call his last EA/PA and see if she wants him, or move upstairs and treat him like I would any other friend in need. I could even wall off his part of the house to give him his own apartment. Not that Iíve given this any thought. :)

And no, I donít think this is a cakewalk for anyone. I know itís extremely hardóhell, I canít even work up the guts to put the worst of his acts in print because Iím embarrassed for him. But I donít even know for sure that heís SA since he hasnít been diagnosed. Iím assuming itís like being a drunkósome people are alcoholics and canít control it while some people are just bums and wonít control it. Maybe itís an addiction and maybe my H is just that big a jerk that he wouldnít control it. And itís not that I donít want to make him go through the pain of treatment, but more that Iím growing weary of pulling us both up the hill toward recovery and itís not my job to do that anyway. I can only control what I can control and thatís me.

I could change my mind tomorrow but at this moment I think Iíve decided to continue to speak my truthóthat he has sexual compulsions issuesóand refuse to get sidetracked in our attempt to improve our marriage. In other words, Iím not changing my language to suit his chosen excuses. But I wonít leave him as long as heís not actively acting out and is trying to be a good husband and I wonít waste my energies by trying to nag and drag him into therapy. Heís a grown man and itís his job to either fix himself or keep his knuckles white.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 58
Married 34 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 612 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:38 PM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not sure why exactly, but I feel this need to make this statement:

Being a SA and being a selfish asshole are not mutually exclusive. You can be both.

Just one of many nuggets of wisdom I have to offer.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
UCLAMOM23
♀ New Member
Member # 36653
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{PeaceLove187}}}}}

My 2-cent opinion is that you need to take care of yourself and do whatever it is that makes you feel o.k. He had no regard for your feelings during his acting out, so please treat yourself with the respect that you deserve. If you feel better staying with him and taking care of him, then you absolutely should. Please know that SA is NOT a victimless crime. YOU are a victim. Hugs to you and I hope that you find peace.


I am: BW 47 years
He is: WH 47 years and has suddenly realized that he's a sex addict

Married 19 years
Together for 25
3 sons: (17, 13, & 11)
D Day 1 - July 1997
D Day 2: 8/29/12


Posts: 32 | Registered: Aug 2012 | From: California
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 6:39 PM, May 7th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Our MC, who is also my IC brought up an interesting biological point during our last session. We know that a period of abstinence is necessary for an SA to experience in order to begin the work toward sexual health. SAs, in their addiction require more and more extreme behaviors in order to get that dopamine rush they require. This is the escalation that we all know and hate. I guess that those who "white knuckle" can, in part, be helped to some extent, because if they are truly abstinent, their brains are cleared of the extra dopamine for a period of time. Of course we know that unless underlying reasons are addressed, and support fellowship is part of one's life, relapse is imminent. Maybe, PeaceLove, your SAWH's illness will serve a similar purpose in that he will be unable to get his fix.

But I guess the most disturbing part of the MC's comments were what she said about young people. And I KNOW my SAfWH's addiction began in childhood...that the dopamine wash that the growing brain is exposed to, through the use of addictive behaviors, be it sex, drugs or anything, is so inhibiting to brain growth, especially brain growth in the "higher functioning" section of the brain, that it just doesn't develop properly. So the addict continues to "think" using the more "animal" "instinctive" "primal" parts of the brain, seeking out pleasure, lying to protect the source of that pleasure, not making rational decisions, etc.

It's scary. Especially because of my SAfWH and because of my son.

Hugs to everyone. I think of you all daily and hold you in the *****LIGHT**** None of us deserve any of this and all of us deserved to have had better lives and better husbands.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2921 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 5:59 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So I'm here. No doubt I belong here. I've been visiting PoSarc, youtube vids, like those from Marsha Means. Doesn't seem to be any meetings around here for S-Anon, PoSarc, or the like. No CSATs around either. I'm in 180, really actually preparing to be done forever with this relationship. Can others give suggestions for support organizations and/or sites, books, videos, etc? Ready to do the internal work to put a stop to allowing this behavior in my life.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
PeaceLove187
♀ Member
Member # 33559
Default  Posted: 8:43 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hathnofury--LOL! Yep, SA and asshole are not mutually exclusive terms.

UCLA--I know I'm a victim, even if I hate that term. I believe there are always choices and I've always refused to think of myself as a victim. I only meant the potentially illegal activities didn't victimize any third parties, although even that's only marginally true.

ScaredyKat--I hope you're right and the physical challenges of getting his fix will help control his impulses. Actually even talking about it (or typing about it) has helped. At this moment I feel far less responsible for fixing him, and that from a person who feels responsible for fixing everything. If he screws up, he screws up. I didn't cause this, I can't fix this, and if he acts out again then I can leave with my head held high because I'm actually a pretty fabulous person.


BW--Me, 57
FWH--Him, 58
Married 34 years
Empty Nesters

Posts: 612 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: Midwest
hathnofury
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Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Windows, there are CSAT treatment centers that do intensives for spouses, like weekend/overnight type things. I don't know of any specifically, because I have a lot of options locally and never needed to explore them, I just know they exist. In addition many regional and the national S-Anon have conferences and intensives. I'd look into that too. It is so fantastic to be surrounded IRL with people who have been in your shoes, goes a long way toward your healing. And then as you talk to these IRL people, you find out about other therapy options. Like many others have posted, CSAT is not the only viable option, there are others that are equipped to do therapy for you but don't have that particular credential - you just have to find someone who has BTDT and can vouch they can help you.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
windowsnotwalls
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Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hathnofury -- I'm more looking for treatment / support group options for myself. He doesn't think he's SA, just believes he has a high drive, and he certainly doesn't care to listen to any of my own amateur diagnosing. And if he doesn't believe he's SA, then he'll never get treatment, things will never get better. I just want the treatment for myself, to stop accepting the behavior, to recover from the past 4yrs, maybe find a bit of my old self eventually, be able to walk away for good, NC, not falter if indeed he won't be treated. I'm to a point I don't even recognize me anymore.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
cds22
♀ Member
Member # 39083
Default  Posted: 11:21 AM, May 8th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

windows, I am in the middle of Marsha Means' book Your Sexually Addicted Spouse and it is helpful.

I met with a CSAT once to get some info on treatment, likelihood of recovery, steps I should take, etc. One thing they mentioned is our particular place discourages separation unless you likely want to end it. If the spouse or spouses need separation then they go through a process to draw up a "therapeutic separation" for working through the issues.

I also found it very helpful for my husband to go through a very detailed (as in hundreds of questions) evaluation battery and an evaluation by a CSAT. While of course no one can give you a promise, we were able to get some info that my husband was on the middle-low end of their scale, mainly confronting a porn addiction, extremely high scores in honesty and consistency. Based on that *and* his very high level of motivation, they were very optimistic that he could be in recovery, not viewing pornography, not escalating to sexual contact, etc. Anyway, don't know if this would be helpful to your process. And I am by no means discouraging you from leaving if that is what you want to do! Frankly, I suspect more SAs relapse than remain in recovery perm. and if I didn't have kids and 20 years in with this man I would be out the door. And I still may be.

Good luck windows!!

ETA: Oh sorry I just saw that he won't even go to treatment. Well, in that case I think you need to decide what your limits are and if you are willing to live with a SA not in treatment and working toward recovery. It sounds like no. I would find a therapist with background in addiction, preferably including sex addiction, and trauma. I am still scouting out support groups and my only advice here is that some of them seem to focus unduly on codependence - - that is the spouse is "part of the problem" and a co-addict. That does not sound like you so I might ask support groups how heavily co-dep is emphasized.

[This message edited by cds22 at 11:47 AM, May 8th (Wednesday)]


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