I was referred to this thread based on some of the information I provided in my first post. (details are now in my profile).
While I am not ready to jump on the SA bandwagon, I have read through quite a bit of this thread and Looked at some other online SA resources. I've got to admit, I see shades of my BH in what I am seeing.
My WH has been engaged in A's for quite some time, even with the wives of several of his friends. His favorite podcast is Savage Love - does anyone know what that is? Does anyone else find it a little extreme? He also has very liberal ideas about sex and sex education and human sexual behaviors - it is almost a hobby for him.
He has always masturbated a lot, often to porn. He would hide his porn use if I ever freaked out about it, so even though I knew he did it, we just didn't talk about it. A lot of his A activity occurred at his workplace and because of his schedule (12 and 24 hour shifts with his own room) he was able to hide his phone calls, texting, emailing, Skyping and some actual PA encounters.
He also had a habit of engaging in an A, then disengaging, and still remaining good friends with these women! After DDay2, I had the horrific realization that I had frequently been in the same room, or at the same event, with at least 1 and often 3-4 of his current or former OW at the same time! He had A's with a number of women in our social circle, and I regularly see either an OW or a BH when I leave the house. After Dday1, I blasted the OW to everyone. After Dday2, I couldn't do that because the OW included a neighbor, a best friend and a co-worker. My kids still interact with some of these OW because they are best friends with their kids. I don't believe my kids know about the newest discovery of OW, but they may be suspicious because we don't socialize with the pareents any longer.
After Dday2, I asked my WH to move out again, but he is back home now. He has been in IC since the summer of 2011 and MC as well. He is remorseful, doing everything I ask, he is attentive to me and the kids, he helps around the house and he is actively involved in a couple of volunteer activities.
I guess I don't know what I am looking for in this post. Any advice is welcome. I don't know if anything I've outlined above raises serious red flags, or is pretty typical of a 40ish, sexually liberal guy. Thanks for any insight you can provide.
Are you doing any reading related to SA yet? There are a lot of resources listed on page one of the thread. While I understand that learning about SA is a depressing idea and can be overwhelming, it is very important that you understand what SA is (primarily an intimacy disorder and much less about the sex than one would think) and why a very specific regimen of treatment is prescribed.
Even with treatment there are no guarantees. My H has over 3+ years of recovery under his belt, and I do not live in a fairy tale world thinking he is cured or fixed. This is a life long battle he will fight, and will always be a recovering addict. I have the financial means to live independently, and I have been working on my recovery, too, so that I have the emotional strength and I am working on developing healthier coping mechanisms. I still find self-care to be the hardest component.
White-knuckling refers to when an addict is not using (or acting out) and they are trying their hardest not to, but they are not in recovery. It is a cycle a lot of addicts go through. They get caught (or have a consequence), and they are going to change or quit the addiction. However, white-knuckling never lasts. It can go on for awhile, but unless the addict does the hard work of recovery, they will return to the addiction.
A CSAT and 12 step group really are mandatory, if he is serious. Most addicts aren't serious the first time or two around. Recovery for the spouse cannot be emphasized enough. So glad you signed up for a group. Now start learning about SA, practicing self-care, and doing what you can to make yourself stronger in case he does not enter a real recovery. Keep working on it!
Hi and welcome. If your WH is interested in exploring whether or not he is a SA, he should be evaluated by a CSAT. Regular IC and MC are not going to help if he is indeed a SA. I understand the reluctance to jump on the bandwagon! I think a lot of people are quick to say SA, but the behaviors you have brought up are all very characteristic. The obsession with sex (as a hobby...for my H he loved sexually oriented news stories) is definitely a red flag.
Is he open to the idea of being a SA? Is he open to seeing a CSAT and working diligently on recovery?
There are a lot of resources listed on page one of the thread. I encourage you to read all you can and learn about SA. Most of all, take care of yourself!
In regards to what u said about S-anon...my H came home from his mtg Tue night with the contact info for a spouse (of one of the group guys) that runs an Sanon group. It's less than a mile from our house! This wasn't listed on the website, so your advice to call & check is so good. Her SAH is a church leader. I work at a church, & our son attends a Christian school -- this feels like such a Godsend to me! They meet on Tuesdays, so next week I'm going.
Wantreal -- I completely relate to your feeling like this cannot be your life! I have thought that SO many times; it's surreal. And don't ever feel like posting is being selfish. That's what this thread is here for, & oftentimes someone's answer is beneficial to all of us. Keep reading, keep posting & call that S-anon number!
Was wondering what you all thought. I have a WH who has always had a high sex drive. He will sometimes masturbate 2-3 x's per day and recently after dday we can have sex 2-3 xs per day. This obviously can not last I have 4 children and a full time job, a house to clean...
My question is - does just having a high sex drive mean he is a SA? He has in the past looked at porn but has never paid for sex, to my knowledge never surfed the net for a partner, and again to my knowledge has had no A until now (married 10 years). He was molested as a child, his mom was unfaithful to his dad and had rough childhood. He has never lost a job because of sexual issues. Maybe in the past we've had issues with him not doing enough (much) around house despite being an at home dad but I don't know if thats because of any sexual behavior or not.
I am lost and scared if I can't keep up with the sexual desires he'll cheat again. He says no not if we are openly communicating but still nervous
Married 10 yrs
Together 11 1/2 years
I've loved him forever
4 beautiful children ages 4-12 (one not bio his) but his through love
He would need an evaluation by a CSAT. He definitely has the FOO issues that are red flags for developing SA, but only a CSAT can diagnose and treat SA.
As for high sexual demands on the spouse, you will find that sadly many of us were in sexless relationships. In my marriage for many years I was lucky to get pity sex from him a couple of times a year, all while he was acting out with porn/masturbation or other people. I am not saying that a SA couldn't make a lot of sexual demands on their spouse, but a seemingly high sex drive is not necessarily an indicator of SA.
I think that the issue warrants more investigation with a trained professional.
I am glad that you are getting hooked up with an S-Anon group. You will find the support amazing. There is something so awesome to be in a room with people who really do understand, that you don't have to pretend with.
I guess my fear is the longer he goes without sex of any kind, I wonder if this won't make him more prone to a slip, which for him would be mb.
I realize that there is this notion that if we aren't fulfilling their sexual needs, they will have to act out. That is not true. Acting out is a poor coping mechanism in an attempt to numb and stifle feelings. There is a huge difference between acting out and having an emotionally intimate encounter.
Your WH will not die if he doesn't have sex. I know my H has said that to newbies. It is so much more important to totally de-emphasize sex at the beginning of this journey and to focus on building intimacy and communication during recovery. Slips may happen (I would like to say they will, but I am sure not everyone slips), but it will have nothing to do with whether or not you two are having sexual relations. It will be connected with triggers and old cycles of behavior. Please try to put aside this fear. I understand that it seems contradictory to de-emphasize sex, but it is important to start from scratch during recovery.
Remember, you didn't cause it, you can't control it, and you can't cure it. If he is going to slip or relapse it will NOT be because of anything you did or did not do.
FWIW, my husband also had a high sex drive, and took Viagra/etc to maintain his high sex drive unbeknownst to me. He has a body count in the triple digits, and never lost a job or got arrested, etc. and I had no clue. He appeared to be remorseful, transparent, and honest when he was caught - about everything I knew about at that time. What I do know, is if he is SA, you are probably in for a lot of new discovery and DDs - there will be a lot more to the story than you currently know. And for the love of God please get STD tested right away if you haven't already. And again in six months, and every six months to a year thereafter as long as you are still having sex with him.
But I do agree get him evaluated by a CSAT. It could very well be this was his only affair, he's not SA, etc. but he's got way too many red flags for you not have that checked out for YOUR peace of mind.
Hi, how are you doing? I have been wondering. Any news as far at the evaluation by the special CSAT?
My F(?)WHSA went to an IC for about 1.5 years and we went to MC. That stopped and he white knuckled - well, we all know where that leads! Now he is with CSAT and men's support group led by the CSAT. He has said what a huge difference it is. The IC was nice, but this is really focusing on his issues.
Fighting mad -- until I accidently caught my husband I had NO IDEA. People always told me the envied our marriage (HA!). I went into sleuth mode and discovered a whole world I never wanted to know. A SAHD has a lot of free time... I'm not saying he's done anything, but he would have opportunity. I agree with Hath – please get STD testing!
Quick question for all you very smart veterans: My husband's CSAT suggested I go EMDR therapy. I'm open to anything to help ME heal, but what is this exactly and does anyone have any experience in it?
married 15 years, 2 kids: 10 DD, 11 DS
In process of R
Watching2bSure, I am so sorry you find yourself here on this thread.
Putonahappyface, Thanks for letting me know you relate. It's amazing how comforting that is to me. I called the number and all that I got was an answering machine. The first time I hung up. I'm so afraid of someone in my family finding out that WH is a SA, but at the same time I called back and realized I have to do this for me. I left a message. We'll see if they get back soon.
Fightingmad, My WH's drive is pretty high too. He's told me before that he would MB several times a day and still be up to sex with me. We had dry periods but we probably had sex about 4 times a week. Even now I find we have sex at least 4 times a week. (Although I am noticing I am greatly affected by his SA and the mindsets that I have towards making sure his needs are fulfilled to stop the acting out. I am now reading that this isn't healthy. This is so hard!)
Not that this gives me any measure of comfort about unsupervised visitation if we did D, because as we know the acting out just in and of itself puts everyone at risk - crazies that now know where you live, porn not hidden well enough, crabs on the bathroom towels, etc. But at least I have comfort in knowing his SA really has nothing to do with children or being violent.
I will expand on other, non-SAWH things about the state of my recovery later, but it's going well. And I have done some minimal EMDR, very positive experiences, I can share about that too. But I need to go pick up my kids and I probably won't get a chance again to post for a while.
Holding you all in the light...
(((Hugs))) to you all - you are a very strong and supportive group!
Can anyone let me know how they brought the subject up to their WS? He has been extremely supportive since DDay, no TT that I know of,...but to suggest he has a psychiatric illness may turn him completely off.
She asked that I share my blog. www.repairingshatterepieces.wordpress.com
I have recently added a ton of resources many of which I got from the wonderful ladies here. Books, SA, s-anon, etc. I've been active recently in some other SA threads here and have gotten several pm's so I thought I'd share.
I don't think I would be anywhere close to where I am right now without this thread (and others before it).
Former 80s Icon wishful thinking
But Fighting, about bringing up SA. So I found out what SA was less than a week from DDay thanks to SI. Also at that time, SI pretty much told me that ANY WS should be willing to do just about anything to R, or it ain't gonna work. There is very few things they can really legitimately refuse, like accept your physical abuse, etc. You have to understand if he is refusing to do anything, that's pretty suspect to begi with.
It is not unreasonable to ask him to go to a CSAT and be evaluated for SA - even if he doesn't believe in it. He should go and do it because it is important to you and your healing. I told my SAWH it would be required about two weeks after DDay. Told him I didn't care what he thought about it, didn't know if he was SA or not, but he needed to get it checked out. He was willing to do anything, he said.
What we wound up doing is actually going to a MC, and she did a joint first session and two IC sessions thereafter. I fed her all the stuff I knew about him that raised SA red flags. At our next joint session, she referred him to a CSAT. So it was a therapist telling him he needed it as well, carrying more weight.
And he did. Long story short tho, you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink. He did do the full evaluation. He was pissed he was diagnosed as SA. He was resistant to going to the intensive workshop, but when I told him I'd go to it anyway, and he could choose between that and IC with a CSAT for me to consider R, he went to the workshop. And in all fairness participatedin the workshop, but lied and did not get the full value of the program because he was not ready to fully accept it. It wasn't until he resumed IC with a new CSAT, after the workshop, that he started to make any progress. It has been a painful year as he has fully accepted what he is and what he has done, where he needs to be and what he needs to do to get there. We are 19 months out, and he's only now truly in recovery, and still only near the beginning of it.
You deserve a healthy, faithful partner who is committed to you and you alone. If you want your WS to be that partner, he should be willing to move heaven and earth to repair the damage he's caused, regardless of his SA status. If he's not willing to do it, I am afraid that doesn't bode well for R.
Did you already have your house put in your name, or is that part of the pn? Do you know if that carries the same fees as a re-finance? The only area I really feel vulnerable is financially. Thinking of realistic ways to improve that, & you seem to be very strong in this area