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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-10
irisher
New Member
Member # 38120
Default  Posted: 1:36 PM, January 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Caught my wife of 20 years having an affair. She apparently has developed an online fetish- addiction and has been using social media and cell phone to flirt with dozens of men AND women who she has then met for sex and has had several affairs over the past few months. I am on the fence, as to whether she can get better or not. Quite hurt and confused here.

Posts: 3 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Cincinnati
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 5:44 PM, January 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So..my question is..how do you know if your WS is a SA? Or if they're just selfish assholes?

((((((confused)))))))))
((((((irisher))))))))))

Well, IMO, SA are BOTH addicts and selfish assholes. And certainly can be women.

If you read the first page of this thread, there are some excellent links to resources to educate about sex addiction. Also, IMO, it IS an addiction, and is best treated by a specialist in that field and by attendence in a 12 step program. SA is progressive and will eventually kill the addict as more and more risky behaviors are needed to get the high.

You must take care of yourself and any kids involved. There are several "slogans" that have helped keep me sane. Attendence at a 12 step program for spouses of addicts can be enormously supportive and life saving for you.

"You didn't cause it, can't control it, and can't cure it"

Don't Even Think About Controlling Him/Her (DETACH)

(God)Grant me the serenity to accept the thinks I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Post here, too. We all come to this place with different and similar stories and needs. But we care and can share our perspectives and give our opinions. Some of us have stayed with our marriages, some have not. Sometimes that is a simpler decision than other times.

Be well.


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2924 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
sodeeplysaddened
♀ Member
Member # 26709
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I thought I would share what I think is similar to how our SAs think.

I asked my SAFWH last night, "if you could cheat and be 100% sure you could get away with it, would you?"

He answered, "wouldn't everybody?!!"

Duh.... NO. That forsaking all others crap meant something to me.

He is working with a CSAT and goes to a men's group therapy that the CSAT facilitates. However, knowing he thinks like this may just be the end for me.

Also, ((HUGS)) to confused and irisher. So sorry you're here, but glad you found it.


WH - 49
BS - 47 (me)
dday1 - 11/16/09
dday2 - 12/1/09
dday3 - 1/13/10
Dday 4 -10/21/12 - trolling Craigslist again

married 16 years, 2 kids: 11 DD, 13 DS
In process of R


Posts: 246 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: In R.
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 12:14 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SK,

It's torture. My SAfWH, fortunately, even though we had no sex life, WAS a cuddler. Of course he was also a critical, raging, verbally abusive SOB, but when he'd apologize and come to bed, he'd want to cuddle, so I at least got that.
He tries to explain the "no sex" thing. He was actually impotent with me. Either he couldn't get it up or he couldn't climax. Apparently I was "real" and he could only perform in his fantasy life
.

I totally get this! My H was a cuddler, too. Ugh. I would get so pissed off, because he could want a hug or want to sleep in the same bed, but would never want to have sex! So frustrating. For me, I had gotten to a point where I didn't want to be "romantic friends" that cuddled, talked, etc., but I was completely shut out of his fantasy life. I didn't even want to sleep in the same bed. I would rather work overtime than be home with him, and worked for weeks on end to avoid those sad lonely nights when we did share a bed. My H was also impotent with me. Ugh.

Funny, now that he has been active in recovery for over 3+ years, impotency is never a problem anymore. That part is nice. I am sorry that you feel like you can't reclaim that part of you. I felt dead sexually for many years, and it was hard for me, too.

[This message edited by TooManyYears at 12:15 PM, January 15th (Tuesday)]


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nature Girl, I am going to echo what you said in your great post.

I stayed to try & protect my kids from the very real possibility of them being at his place with whoknowswhat in the environment.

And then I found hard-core teen porn on the same computer my kids played Webkinz on. No passwords to protect them. That stuff was just one curious click away from polluting my children's minds.

And then I found the chair they sat in to play computer games was encrusted with ejaculate, as was the keyboard & mouse & desktop.

And then I found pictures of WH getting his dick sucked on stashed where the kids could have easily found them.

And then of course WH jacked off to porn every night with the kids just in the other room. When they were younger he did it with them in the room. At least once he was holding a baby while he was jacking off to porn at the computer.

My point?

You aren't protecting your children by keeping a SA in your home. You cannot control an addict. You cannot control the environment. Children will know what's going on eventually. They might walk in & see Dad masturbating. For sure they're going to hear it. They'll discover porn or pictures. They'll read letters or texts.

You cannot protect your children if you stay married. You cannot protect them if you divorce. You cannot control the addict.

At least if you divorce you'll have a custody evaluation process to document the SA, which in turn will affect the custody & amount of unsupervised time your child(ren) will have with the SA. There is some degree of protection available, albeit not much, by divorcing & evaluating & putting the SA on notice that people know what he's up to & he had better keep himself together around the children.

Children who grow up in the home with an active addict, be it an alcoholic to sex, will grow up dysfunctional. They will repeat your patterns that you model for them. You are only fooling yourself - a codep specialty - if you think that staying for the children is to anyone's benefit.

I thought my kids were better off growing up in a two parent home (emotionally, financially, etc.), but they did find his depraved porn, they did find out about some of his acting out, and they did know that I knew what he was. I have spoke often about the fall out of all of that. The things I thought I was protecting them from. How unhealthy I was before the last d-day.

SA IS PROGRESSIVE. I can't say that enough. In what manner the SA progresses is individualized, and the rate at which they progress, the triggers that send them off are all very individualized. People don't just become SA's in their 30's, 40's. The foundation and acting out behaviors begin for most of these addicts in adolescence or even before adolescence (in my H's case).

Anyone who says, "but my SA would NEVER do that" has their head in the sand. There were many times I moved that line in the sand of my limits and what I would accept. A true SA will progress to levels of depravity that we cannot even begin to fathom. If 21 years ago you would have told me that my SA would act out prostitutes, child porn, use work computers, and start grooming an underage victim, I would NEVER in a million years have believed you. All men look at porn, right? All men are interested in sex, right?

I grew up in a very dysfunctional household of abuse and addiction, so my radar of what is healthy was way off from the start. I don't wish that on my kids. I don't want them to become addicts (of any sort) or enter relationships with addicts because their parents modeled that behavior and unhealthy dynamic for them their entire lives. I am desperately hoping that the changes that we have made and the honest conversations I have had with them now (obviously there are details they still don't need to know) will assist them in healing and provide them with hope that they don't have to fall into the same pit of despair that I lived the first 16 years of my marriage in.

"Protecting" my children in the manner I did is my biggest regret. I did not "protect" them from anything.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Sodeep)))

TMY, I love hearing your advice. Let me ask you, so if you do divorce, how do you keep your children from being exposed to the SA fallout anyway? I read NG's and CH's and many others on S&D that have the stuff of nightmares. If my SAWH was actively acting out, and I was court-ordered to hand the kids over for visitation...I might wind up in prison, to be honest. We are not in a day and age where dads get every other weekend as the norm, and tend to neglect the visitation schedule as time passes. My state expects at least a 60/40 split of parenting time, and bad things happen if you don't hold up your end of the deal. And God help you if Mom is the SA and dad is the spouse. It's clear the courts don't consider SA as a valid reason to restrict custody.

Again, I don't have any answers. Just grave concerns.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 2:52 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A true SA will progress to levels of depravity that we cannot even begin to fathom.

What's the best book for information on this? My child spends time with his father now. We're divorced, and I may not find out much about what he's doing, but I'd like to be a little more prepared for what might be happening. He's already been using prostitutes for gosh, maybe decades? Porn since his teens. I suspect he's progressed to men at times, but I think his main area of interest is younger and younger women.

I stayed married a long time because I didn't want him drinking and driving my children around. The thought of him having the children without me there really concerned me. Of course, now I see that I raised my children in an alcoholic marriage. (I kept hoping he'd hit a "bottom" and decide to get help.) And now I know it was a sex addiction marriage, too.

The damage is there either way. There's no winning choice, for sure.


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 3:53 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see my name here.

In my case, my children have never been exposed to anything inappropriate by their father. He doesn't really look at porn, though he uses CL and other sites for partners. But there's no porn to be found on his computer. He's a master at hiding his tracks. I'm 99.9 percent sure he's never done anything in front of his children - at D-Day I was able to track his activities by date and time. He did it at work and after I was asleep.

He has never been verbally or physically abusive. (However, he did play all sorts of mind games with me, and we did have some blowout fights - thankfully rarely in front of the children.) Until D-day, he was nothing but pleasant, likable, etc., socially and in front of his children. (He did have escalating personality conflicts at work in the past two years, but I attribute that to his escalating NPD more than the SA.)

So he compartmentalizes very well. My children think of him as Super Dad. They love him. It's very worrisome to me. And infuriating of course.

I live in one of the most liberal, no-fault, joint-custody places in the nation, and I've managed to avoid any overnights at all in the past 18 months. Not once have my children gone to his "residence." Visitation takes place here twice a week in my home, and at activities around town. It's painfully difficult for me to have him around my home, but I try to avoid him and will do anything to make things easier for my children.

I am involved in a nasty, god-awful custody fight. It has nothing to do with SA; rather, it's the NPD that has surfaced mostly since D-Day. He is fighting me because he's angry that I would dare to insinuate that he is not the perfect dad. He tends to go crazy around any court dates and deadlines, scaring me to death. But then things simmer down and he doesn't bother to ask for more time with his kids until he gets mad at me again.

I have enough dirt on him that no one expects him to get joint custody. Whether or not we can stop him from ANY overnights remains to be seen. But I'm hopeful. He still has to face the discovery process and a mental health evaluation. Those will not be easy for him. The NPD is making him more and more insane whenever he's challenged or under pressure.

So, this is a work in progress. To me, it was unthinkable to stay married to him, period. To model this sort of relationship in front of my children. To have him in my house, with my children, while he carried on an lived a double life. Completely unacceptable for me and my self-respect and my self-esteem. I would rather my children spend very limited time with him than to have him here ALL the tie with them, exposing his growing weirdness. My children are getting old enough to understand some things - they certainly know that no one should touch them, etc. I'm not so worried about porn. The other woman? She has no interest in meeting my children -OR STBX still has enough common sense to know that he should't introduce them. I think there's a tiny core of decency in him (about the size of a grain of rice) that wants to protect our children. OR maybe he just wants to look like the perfect dad and knows that meeting OW will destroy him forever in his children's eyes.

So that's my story. It's a calculated risk. I comfort myself by knowing that the agony of divorcing this asshole is just a fraction of the agony that would be involved in leaving him fully in our lives. My kids are doing well, as I've posted here before. They just think it's a normal divorce. But only time will tell.

Hath, if you were able to negotiate a pre-nup, would you be able to negotiate a parenting plan that would be acceptable to both of you? Maybe something to consider? There are some very creative parenting concepts these days. Does he have family nearby that you trust?

Good luck everyone. I'll say some prayers for all our little children who need to be protected from their own parents.


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 4:23 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hath,

Absolutely valid concerns. I have no easy answers, that is for sure. Hindsight is always 20/20. I had an advantage on d-day in that I was able to secure a post-nup (as you did). My H knew that the kids were uninterested in any sort of relationship at that point and were of age to decide who they wanted to live with anyways, so custody was not an issue at d-day.

However, if I would have divorced him years ago, as I should have, it would have been much more complicated. I did not understand SA when the kids were little. I knew my H was acting out, but I was pretty naive about the effects on the children. My H was "super-dad" and the kids loved him so much. That is one of the reasons that d-day hit them so hard. They felt like their lives were a lie. I would have been hard pressed to have limitations put on his custodial rights when they were young.

However, are you home with them 24/7? Are you with them every moment that he is? Can you guarantee that he has never acted out in their presence (I don't mean necessarily the same room...I mean while he was supposed to be watching them). These are rhetorical questions; I am not looking for anyone to answer them. When I ask myself that now, while obviously the answer is yes. I know he had porn in the house for years, and I have primarily worked nights for most of my career, so I am sure that yes, he did watch porn and masturbate during hours when he was "watching" the children.

I think that we cannot 100% protect our children. We can try our best. Unfortunately, we had children with SAs. It is not that I have faith in the legal system, but I think the best protection is a post-nup (if legal), and then work on restricting overnights and working on a safer visitation plan.

I have to believe that it is best for kids to grow up outside of the tension of a dysfunctional marriage and with at least one parent modeling healthy behaviors. Whether you believe in co-dependency or not (I happen to), I know I was certainly NOT a healthy parent leading up to our last d-day. I focused way too much attention on his activities and utilized unhealthy coping mechanisms. I really wasn't present most of the time, even when I was physically there.

This stuff is really hard.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Compartmented,

I guess I would read any of Carnes' books, probably "Don't Call it Love." That was the first book his CSAT had both of us read.

I am not trying to exaggerate this issue. Maybe there are SAs who just look at porn or have an affair or a few, but most need to escalate the "high", and vanilla porn won't do that. I know my H talks about the last few years of his acting out as being very delusional, and starting to feel like he could do anything he wanted to without being caught. The risks he took are shocking even to me.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 5:34 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The damage is there either way. There's no winning choice, for sure.

Ain't that the truth.

I totally value everyone's posts, it is so helpful for me to bounce this off others that have BTDT. But I feel the need to emphasize my question was what do you do to protect them when you do D, not how do you decide to stay or go with regards to the effects on the kids. And I totally was not saying ANYONE was putting their kids at unnecessary risk with any choices. It's a calculated risk at best no matter what you choose.

Hath, if you were able to negotiate a pre-nup, would you be able to negotiate a parenting plan that would be acceptable to both of you? Maybe something to consider? There are some very creative parenting concepts these days. Does he have family nearby that you trust?

I sent you a PM about my legal particulars, to pick your brain. For the sake of this forum, lets just say our states differ. But no, there is no family, his or mine, within 1000 miles of here. I've only lived here two years, Changed neighborhoods/schools six months ago, so I don't even have neighbors or friends with that level of trust.

TMY, thanks so much for the input. You are able to articulate thoughts I cannot put into words.

As for my sitch, I am not in a place where I *have* to choose because in theory SAWH is in recovery, nobody is currently at risk. My issues are will the progress continue, and even if successful is it too little, too late? Also have the obstacles of post nup not yet signed (lawyer/scheduling issue, not SAWH issue), is there a personality disorder/mental defect in play, and now the potential offender screening. Obviously if the screening says the kids are at risk, he's out the door. At any rate the possibility of D is a very real option I need to be prepared for. And part of being prepared is protecting the kids as much as I can.


Hugs ladies. I appreciate you all so much.



BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My son is older (still a minor). I don't think X would masterbate in front of him, LOL, at this point. But he thinks that what he does is "okay" and who knows what he is doing to encourage my son to adopt his "lifestyle"? He has porn videos in the house, or I should say he did at one point. One thing that worries me is him thinking that these women he meets online might be someone for him to introduce to my son, as if he were "dating" them. It's likely, because there are so many, that these women will be coming up to them in restaurants. I guess my son will see what he will see. (I am back to trying to control what I can control, and not what I can't.)

The thing is, I have other children. They aren't minors. If he exposes them to prostitutes, there's nothing I can do but answer their questions if they ever come to me with something, or if he gets arrested. Or HIV.

He really is delusional, and very much an "entitled" person. He sees nothing wrong with "providing financial support" for women who service him sexually.

That's all icky enough, but another worry is if he starts trolling for men or threesomes or more dangerous levels of prostitutes (drug users).... I'd like to hope he has enough sense not to let my son see this, but his delusional component is the question mark.

Thanks for the book recommendation - I will look for it.

Btw, I hate to even write this but my CSAT wonders if X might not have already gotten a "woman/girl" for my son.

eta: This gold background makes my barfing smilies look like they are dry heaving!

[This message edited by Compartmented at 7:48 PM, January 15th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1060 | Registered: Aug 2010
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 7:59 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As far as damaged kids, I think I got lucky. My kids are far from unaffected, and far from perfect. DS#1 is a recovering alcoholic, fighting anxiety and depression. I would be lying if I thought he would have been healthy if he grew up in another setting. He had stress in early childhood, signs of depression and anxiety as a very young child LONG before my SAfWH changed into Jekyll. The difference may have been that he would have had a father figure to go to for guidance instead of an absentee father. DS#2 is doing well. Both are developing a REAL relationship with their dad, one based on honesty and the realization that parents are human, and that relationships can endure horrible things.

They love and respect me, and don't think poorly of me for my choices. They DON'T know ALL the gory details. But they know enough.

As I've said before, no one size fits all.

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 8:00 PM, January 15th (Tuesday)]


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2924 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So much good information here! I had worried about the same thing when I decided to move out with the kids. I found the porn on the computer and the sticky tissues; would my kids while they have visitation with him?

I have "Don't Call it Love". So many aha moments in the book its rediciulous!

I do the best for me children when they are with me and I found each of them experienced, well qualified therapists. I figure if they can't tell me, they would definitely tell the therapist if something weird is going on at dad's house.

As you already know, I am going back to mediation for the 3rd time to discuss the parenting schedule. SAWH is fighting to the death because he does not want to pay child support. Oh well.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:22 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((torntobits))) good luck - make him pay!

Hath, forgot to mention the role of psychologists, school counselors, and other trusted adults. And a strong community of friends and family around them. More ways of protecting your children from an SA parent.


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
numbandnauseous
♀ Member
Member # 34525
Default  Posted: 11:10 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is a great discussion and I appreciate all who have taken the time to write.

My situation is that I don't have any "dirt" on SAWH that would limit his visitation. My L said that I would get custody, no problem, since I am a SAHM. But, SAWH would still get them every other weekend. They are so young that I can't even have a conversation about what is going on and that their father is an SA.

So, I am staying for a while more until I can figure this all out. Maybe in the meantime I will get some dirt on him and have a stronger case for no overnight visitation. I would feel much more comfortable with that.

Also wanted to say that my SAWH is a cuddler too - made me feel like, "well, at least we have some affection, if not sex." I felt guilty for wanting sex because I had the opposite of what my friends had: lots of cuddling, no sex. They all had constant begging for sex and no cuddling and they wanted more cuddling. I felt like he had to love me because we cuddled. The whole thing is so strange.

NG, thank you for your post. The problem is, I haven't found anything on our computer and kids don't have access to it. I haven't found any porn, naked pictures, ejaculate ANYWHERE (I don't know what he does with it; I have even searched garbage cans for tissues)

I think he is very good at compartmentalizing too.

We went to a CSAT and his SA screening test was invalid because he was highly defensive, so I don't know where an eval would get us in terms of court and visitation.

I know that SA is progressive and that is my biggest fear. I haven't found any evidence of progression; I wish I could find something - it would make things so much easier.

I am working on FOO too and understand my codep and low expectations for love and respect.

Compartmented, I do worry that X may have gotten a woman/girl for your son. Our CSAT tells a story about one of his clients whose father had gotten him prostitutes from when he was 10 years old on. They see this as how they are supposed to raise a "man" I guess?

Love you Ladies! (and irisher)

ETA: (and irisher)
Also wanted to welcome those who are new and wish you peace. Keep reading and posting - we are here for you!

[This message edited by numbandnauseous at 11:13 PM, January 15th (Tuesday)]


BS (me) - 41
WH - 48, EA with HS GF x 2
M: 10 years, T: 20
2 small children
DDay#1 - Christmas 2011 (OW#1)
Confronted - 4/6/12
DDay#2 - July 9, 2012 (OW#2)
He is an SA (Oct 2012)
Divorcing

Posts: 827 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: the other side
wantreallove
♀ Member
Member # 37534
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We went to our first C session last night with a lady for MC. Both of us were amazed as we went through the normal questions of background stuff that our backgrounds were so different. We talked afterwards and I said to him that I know he's probably scared but that I am pretty sure it's just a matter of time before he's officially labeled a SA. He said he knows. It surprised me because I thought he was fighting it internally. He said he just doesn't feel that draw anymore and that's why it's hard for him. He wants to do the C and is acting very transparent. Says he doesn't want to every do it again and so he's told me as much as he can think of on how he pulled it off for so long without my knowing. He's told me where he hide condoms and how he deleted messages. So as far as him wanting to recover I am sure he really does. His rock bottom was my finding out and almost leaving him. Ok so now my questions. Where do I start for learning more about this? Last night it seemed like the MC was hinting that I would do better with IC. She's not a CSAT and my WH starts his IC next week but not with a CSAT. (the closest is about an hour away) How important is the CSAT vs regular C? What should I be aware of and watch for? Last night my WH and I talked about a 12 step program but neither of us know too much about them. How do they help? Is this really important? He says he's willing to go but not sure how it helps. Not meant in a defensive I don't want to go way but truly asking the question. We want to face this and work together for our M and our family. I can see so much how his FOO has lead him to this and it's so sad.

And then I come here and read what you all are going through and it scares the daylights out of me! Progression sounds really scary and I don't understand it. I don't think my WH would ever hurt our children. He may have not been around much at times but he would never purposely do something to them. Are there different types of SA? I guess I am just looking for more info. Thanks


Me,BS 32
SA fWH (masame5) 34
Married 12 yrs 6 kids age 17-1, and expecting #7
D-day 10/9/12 (caught him through fb chat) D-day #2 11/19/12 thru 11/21/12 (found out about all the rest of the A's.)
8 AP, 12-7-12 WH sober date

Posts: 195 | Registered: Nov 2012
TooManyYears
♀ Member
Member # 26108
Default  Posted: 8:36 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wantreallove,

Where do I start for learning more about this? Last night it seemed like the MC was hinting that I would do better with IC. She's not a CSAT and my WH starts his IC next week but not with a CSAT. (the closest is about an hour away) How important is the CSAT vs regular C? What should I be aware of and watch for? Last night my WH and I talked about a 12 step program but neither of us know too much about them. How do they help? Is this really important?

There are books and resources listed on page one of this thread. Start reading and learning as much as you can.

A CSAT is VERY important. A regular counselor will not be able to properly treat a SA. A 12 step group is also very important. There are 12 step group for the SA and groups for you as a spouse, too. These groups provide accountability and real life support from others who have BTDT. Working the steps is also important to progress in recovery. MC is fairly useless when dealing with SA until the SA is well into recovery. At 3+ years out, my H and I have never even done MC. We still see our own CSATs. Sometimes we join each other at appointments, but less as an exercise in MC and more as an enhancement to our own IC, to offer perspective. It isn't that we don't have other issues in our marriage, but SA and FOO issues affect every part of a marriage, and by continuing to work on these issues, our communication and marriage has become stronger.

His rock bottom was my finding out and almost leaving him.

A word of caution: this may not really be his rock bottom. My H admitted in a suicide letter 10 years before our last d-day (when I had caught him posting and answering personal ads) that he was a SA. He saw a few regular ICs, white-knuckled at times, and said he wanted to change. He didn't. He would quit acting out for awhile, then something would happen to trigger the cycle all over again. That is where progression comes into play. The things that may have been enough before aren't, and they end up doing riskier things.

My H's rock bottom involved our teenage children finding out about some of his activities, and a police investigation into his acting out.

Are there different types of SA?

There are different levels of acting out, and different acting out behaviors. It is not uncommon for men who identify themselves as straight to end up acting out with other men. Or for SA's to end up viewing child porn as the addiction progresses.

Recovery is very hard, and requires a full commitment and a complete change in almost every area of the addict's life. Even at 3+ years out, my H still spends 5-7 hours a week on recovery activities (12 step, CSAT, posting on Recovery Nation, doing workbooks, reaching out to other guys in the program). He has also developed hobbies that are healthy and provide him with creative outlets. If your WH is serious about the idea, he should definitely see a CSAT, start reading and learning about SA, and attend a 12 step group. You should also do the same, because it is very important to take care of yourself. Then, if he does enter into a real recovery, you can grow together. If he does not, you will be healthier and able to deal with the steps you need to take for yourself and your children. Put as much emphasis as you can on YOUR recovery. He needs to change for himself and he needs to be self-motivated. You did not cause this, you can't control it, and you can't change it. You can only work on YOU.


Me- 40
H, rSA- 46
2 young adult children
Married 21 years
Last D-day 9/19/09 (Many before this)

Posts: 496 | Registered: Nov 2009
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:50 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hath, forgot to mention the role of psychologists, school counselors, and other trusted adults. And a strong community of friends and family around them. More ways of protecting your children from an SA parent.

I do the best for me children when they are with me and I found each of them experienced, well qualified therapists. I figure if they can't tell me, they would definitely tell the therapist if something weird is going on at dad's house.

While this does give me some measure of comfort, the idea of having to pay for a CSAT out of pocket for three kids as a single parent, even with CS, while we really can't afford to do it for the both of us as a married couple, gives me no comfort at all. Yes, the trusted adults can help find the red flags, give some guidance, etc. but IDK that garden variety counselors and trusted adults can really specifically address "child of SA" issues. Gah.

But I appreciate bringing that up. I hadn't even considered the cost of therapy for the kids. Crap.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

Posts: 1408 | Registered: Jun 2011
torn2bits
♀ Member
Member # 28376
Default  Posted: 7:49 PM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hath and all, you know what I have to say. I had spent so much time trying to figure out what was going on in my husband's head. What he was doing or not doing.

Today, I am not living with him, I am not searching and whatever is or isn't doing is his issue.

On Recoverynation.com (another great, great site with lots of information) states that if you decide to leave, sometimes all that work the SA needs to do is done while separating and divorcing. They talk about couples R after the D because later, you don't have to worry if they are going to choose recovery. By that time, they already did the work on their own.

I am here for my kids. There are no guarantees for any of us on how our kids will be or if our SA will recover. No sense spending our lives worrying about it. Just be the best you can be each day and that's it.


Me: 44/WH (SA): 49
M: 24 years 3 kids over 10 yrs old
EA/ PA Dec. 2009 -Divorce pending

Posts: 1240 | Registered: Apr 2010 | From: Midwest
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