Whatever you do do not give up your source for information to your W. Once she figures out how you are keeping tabs they will find other ways around it. you don't have to tell her how you found out. Just tell her you know she talked to him again. She will drill you for how you know but turn this back around and ask why she lied about the contact.
I can't tell you how important this is....you CANNOT share your sources, do not tell her!
Even after I thought we were R I told her how I was tracking her and removed the spyware and keyloggers, only to find out she was at it again. You will be back to square one and even further behind. You have valuable information, I'm telling you man, bite your tongue and do not share that you know she is lying to your face.
You can't change the past.
Stop living in it.
I believe the OM is your best source to get the info you need. You've got the power now to make him tell you!
eta: I would bluff the shit out him and make him believe you know more than you do to make squirm and come clean.
[This message edited by toby at 4:16 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]
anyway, good Lord you have a lot on your plate.
first let me address the "budding EA" crap. I can agree with you that EA's can be more one sided. My WH had a fairly one sided EA with a woman at work, even had dinner with her a couple of times (with others present)..I confronted him and called her immediatly after finding dozens and dozens of texts and calls (even on xmas day, he text her a dozen times)..She is ill, and probably dying now, so he kept telling me he felt sorry for her and was just a friend...but she told me her husband left her for another woman and it bothered her that he kept calling her, but since they worked together she didnt know how to tell him to back off. I had no problem telling her. She even transfered departments to get away from him. However this doesnt sound like your issue.
She flirts, he listens..i dunno. YOur only getting the chat log off that one game. They live near each other, are you sure there aren't face to face meetings?
I can't agree with some that she's for sure sleeping with him, but i can add that if she isn't now she will probably in the future unless its nipped in the buttocks.
Yes i agree tell his wife. Two pairs of eyes are better than one, and i'm sure if you explain to his wife that you asked them to stop speaking to each other and they won't she probably can get him too. I have a feeling he isn't that invested in your WW.
You guys need MC, but more importantly you need IC and to see a lawyer. The moment my WH knew i was seeing a lawyer (for our post nuptual agreement) he freaked and i learned more then that i cared to know. I also did not like his response to wanting a polygraph..he finally agreed to it, but got angry about it..said he was scared that it would show he was lying when he wasnt (which can be a valid point)..i decided then that I didnt want to know if there were more women than i knew about..3 different women were enough to deal with. With my post nuptual agreement in place, well..lets just say, go for it buddy....I'd be more financially stable without you and if your gonna cheat, way more emotionally stable too.
You have to demand NO CONTACT immediately and be prepared to give her a deal breaker..whether its she leave the home, or what ever you decide is best for you. There can be no more "team sports" that just include her alone. This might be hard, but between you and the MOM's wife you can probably come up with something....
MC is a must i suppose. I'm not the best at giving advise, this is just stuff i would have done (however, hookers significant others don't often care that your husband is sleeping with thier whores..so mine is a different story lol)
Good luck hun, I'm glad you found us but sorry you are having to be here at all.
Hey, how do you turn off the email notifications that I get when I or someone posts. Did not see a option in my profile
You are only given that option when you first start a new thread. We're not able to shut it off. When you start your next thread you'll be given the option again
The people you do your life with shape the life you live
I know the stuff Iím posting is true, but I may be leaving out some collateral details on how she is feeling. I guess Iím judging her based on worst case, and Iím not sure thatís fair.
Lots to consider never thought I was naive; I have known about their friendship all along and they have never tried to hide it. I have been keeping an eye (behind the scenes) on their online interactions on and off for years, and can say he would never hit the top 15 in her texts or calls.
Anyway, last night
I got home, her phone was charging in the kitchen, we were taking our daughter to her evening activity and running over to the hardware store for some things.
She had to run up stairs for one of the kids, I checked her phone, and his call log and texts were still there (+1)
We left, dropped or daughter off, and headed to the store, I asked her about her reaction this AM when I asked her to let me know when she contacts him. She said she didn't like to feel like she was being monitored, but understood my need to feel safe. (+1)
She then without me asking said that she had called him today and that she texted him first to see if he could talk (he was at work) (+100)
I asked why she called, and she said she wanted to know how he felt about our conversation last night. (-5) She said he felt much better, and didnít know if he should have approached me, and that he was sorry for bring pain to our marriage.
I thanked her for her honesty, and told her that I was sure that was hard for her to tell me, but I was very happy that she did.
We talked some more in the parking lot, I asked her if for the time being she would not delete any texts, so I could feel safe, she said she would do this for me.
We talked about her being too emotionally involved with him, and that we need to find a way to get reconnected. SHE mentioned attending a coupleís communication class. By the way she brought this class up a while ago for us but I put it off, and to be fair she has suggested other types of class for couples over the past several years. Looking back that was a big missed sign on my part, when you spouse suggest programs to strengthen you marriage run, donít walk with them to that opportunity.
I also talked about how I am so outgoing at work with everyone, but when I get around her I tend to shut down, (due to her dominance) and we need to address this.
BTW this situation has me in the power position; she is not used to this dynamic.
Got home, I downloaded ďNot Just FriendsĒ on her tablet and started reading while she was changing and getting kidoís settled.
When she came down I had her read a few paragraphs of the first chapter, It talked about how good friends can be in a EA and not even know it. How they can interact in public and no one else would know, as they themselves are not even aware. But if there interaction was observed by the other spouse that the other spouse would instantly see the signs.
Boy did that hit home; I told her that was exactly how I felt 6 years ago and continue to.
She and I will be reading that book
She has shown remorse, but mostly for how it hurt me. Which would make since if she didnít think she was in a EA.
We ended the night with what you guys on here call a little HB and fell asleep spooning like we do every night.
So where am I today?
I am in a much better place than yesterday, we both know the path we need to take and have talked about doing it together.
She is coming to grips (I hope) with the fact that her emotional interaction with him should be focused at us.
I truly believe that she did not know the dynamic of their friendship. I saw above about it sometimes being a one sided EA; I think this is the case here. Hopefully reading ďNot just FriendsĒ will open her eyes some more.
Facts that I know are true:
-She and I have been friends with him for 6+ years
-Her online / phone interaction which was being checked has not been a concern for all these years, until 3 months ago.
-They do not behave differently from when I am with them vs. viewing from afar
-I had all access to their (secret) communications for the past 3 months and 99.9% of it sounds like a normal friendship, only a few suggestive comments by my wife that the other guy either did not pick up on or did not bite. He actually said something to this effect when I talked to him; he said he can be dense sometimes to stuff like that, and he didnít pick up or bite on any of it because he viewed her as a friend.
Things that I now believe:
She recently escalated her emotional friendship with him, and she knows this, she seems scared to admit it to herself.
So what do I plan to do, because I am in a much safer place, Iím going to try to stay here and work with my wife at rebuilding our relationship.
But as President Reagan once said, ďTrust but verifyĒ I will (have already started) implementing some aggressive monitoring of her. I pray that I am not back on here in the future, other than to help others, but I will not stick my head in the sand, nor will I allow her to.
On the +side, I am down 10 pounds, but didnít really need to lose any, Hoping to have Thanksgiving dinner.
[This message edited by Overcomming at 7:52 AM, November 21st (Wednesday)]
GET A KEYLOGGER
[This message edited by MeanBean at 2:59 AM, November 22nd (Thursday)]
Your resistance to telling his wife or allowing yourself to believe your wife is shading the truth to protect her relationship with this other man is clear from your writing, so it is obvious you are not going to demand NC at this time, while trying to put a positive spin on things based on what she tells you, and who can blame you? That is an honorable thing to do as the partner who did not betray the marriage, but as all those who have been there before will tell you, it is not the best course of action right now. So even if you wont at this point make demands, please dont stop checking up on her. She apparently is still in the fog of the EA, and all these people trying to help you here know exactly how that goes.
Infidelity is one of those situations you are never prepared for. Like you I tried to be a decent person and restricted my reactions based on decorum that was legitimate and just in a normal situation, but in hindsight I recognize as not constructive to ending the EA and in fact the exact opposite. It is hard to accept in one you should be able to trust, but she is not rational when it comes to her "friendship." That relationship gives her a charge and a boost in self-esteem that makes her act inapprorpriately and it is undermining your marriage. It is a sad fact of human nature that she is not going to surrender this relationship and those feeling unless forced to. This is war and at stake is your marriage. I always have been an honorable person, but until I acted like I had nothing to lose, and let her know she had everything to lose, things did not really change, they just became more covert. In your present mind set that makes no sense, but all these people with shared experiences are trying to give you the benefit of their wisdom and experience. Please consider the advice you are getting carefully and allow yourself to think outside of the box. You are thinking rationally, she is not. To win this war you have to be able to fully understand the difference, and that means speaking the language she will understand.
If it helps any, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. My wife is four years removed from the EA, and in that time she has done the hard work to understand the antecedents of her behavior and change them. She still does not like to talk about that time because it resurect the shame she felt that caused and perpetuated the dishonest behavior, but she clearly recognizes and states she was crazy at the time. The quicker you act to end this nightmare proactively, the better your chances of having a good outcome. If you cant bring yourself to "be the bad guy" for yourself, do it for her. It is not possible to make responsible decisions while in the fog, and she really needs your help right now.
Eta: Forgot to say...Keep posting!!! Nobody here will say "we told you so" We're here to help!!! We've been down this road....we know where all the hazards are.
[This message edited by toby at 7:49 AM, November 22nd (Thursday)]
Well the if you remember a day later she called him to see how our meeting was and told me, I could see this on her phone (online record) 20 min.
A few days later from a previous post, I asked that she did not delete anything, if itís just a friendship. I had been looking at her online phone bill, but she did not know.
Last weekend on her way home from work she texted him 7 times and he responded 5 times. When she got home, she told me she texted him on the way out of work to let him know that he needed to close a game down on his side for it to be deleted.
Well I checked her messages and there were only two one from her and him about this, but the others were deleted, ďviolationĒ. I heard most of the other texts thanks to a VAR, just talking.
Confront her that night about deleting stuff; unfortunately let her know I have access to phone logs.
Lots of more pain, she said beforehand that she may have deleted some so I would not feel bad.
I explained to her that I do not care what they say at this point, that all I what is that truth, that her deleting stuff hurt more than anything.
OK, now for last Friday night, like I said before I have her on a lock down VAR, phone hacked, key logger etc. Both of them are not very computer literate, were as I could run a IT department.
Well Iím checking the computer and I find this on her face book messaging, they went from the games chat, to texting, now to Facebook messagingís, All her messages outgoing.
"Oh bummer. I'm sure it was fun hanging out with the guys. You were right about &&& checking the cell phone account, I couldn't believe it. Thank goodness I told him Sat that I had texted you about the games I know he looked at my phone to see the texts but I had deleted them except for the first 2. So, he noticed that more were on the account than what I had on the phone. So that led to some issues again. I didn't even know he would know how to go into account."
"Luckily, the last couple days he's been worrying about me dying so he's settled down. :) "
"alled you from work Sunday night to let you know that but I didn't want to bother you. I know. I told him that I'm not going to stop talking to you but he just asked for me to let- him know when I do,. So, that being said, assuming I don't leave my FB account up, when I delete this conversation, it will be gone? "
So now she is talking about me behind my back to him.
I emailed her this mess
age at work.
"Talking about me behind my back with him, canít wait to see him and know that he knows that he has this secret information between him and my wife. My friendship with him is over, not sure how to face him now."
"I see / saw everything, thatís why I hurt, my wife lying to my face, not going to do this, either youíre in your out. "
"Make a choice so we can move on either together or apart. "
"Were at the fourth of fifth fork in the road, so far you have taken the wrong path each time."
"The hurt in me watching you do this is by far well beyond describing."
"I sit here in total pain. As I type this tears streaming down my face wondering where the ###### that I married is."
Now the good news????????????
We had our outing that Saturday, I asked her why she did not show any emotion or tears like me, she let loose like I have never seen her, she was so upset about how I was feeling, She said that although she did not remember committing to not deleting stuff, she will from this point. Lots of shearing, lots of tears. We made a emotional bond that day that was really missing. She has printed poems sense and has been nice because I was really screwed up in the head.
I HEAR YOU, no I have not told the other guys wife, all evidence is that they were on a slippery slope and I couth them, granted her actions after the fact hurt more than any of the initial stuff I can see.
I will monitor, will not confront on any findings initially, will simply call and present my gatherings to the other guys wife.
God I hope it does not come to that, last weekend we had a break though, I was ready to leave, she could see it, called her out about what she whatíd. I feel safe for now, but worried about weeks, months ahead when everything settles down.
God, the pain, please remember the pain, when people first come here, they are so lost and donít know water is wet, you can tell them something that does not register.
That being said, you guys rock.
Your WW's fogginess will return and she will go further underground with her EA.
YOU need to dictate the terms for R. It's not open for negotiation. She can either be 100% on board, or she can go.
This will continue on until you finally do two things:
1. Demand NO CONTACT. Zip, zero, nada
2. Inform the OM spouse what her WH has been going on
If so, then you must take decisive action.
Your wife IS having an affair. It does not matter what type.
You don't need to catch her at anything more.
You are asking and talking to the OM, he is your worst resource.
His wife is a duly concerned party.
She has lied to you and concealed her involvement.
Tears, promises, poems, sex, all mean nothing.
What matters is what we do.
Tell his wife.
Don't tell him that you are.
Don't tell her that you are.
Tell her everything that you know, hold nothing back.
Then let come what may.