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User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
5454real
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Default  Posted: 1:26 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My advice, Just change who you are.

You fill every need of a woman.. you know them… and you execute them to the best of your ability.

Aren't those directly contradictory statements? As a KISA I will directly state that all attempting this will do is devastate you as a human being. As your (Hopefully) fww attempts to fill in her own holes, your filling them for her will merely create new holes in other areas. Pretty nice cycle. Constantly shifting target. What change again?

No!!!

My W didn't 'hook' me with sex. She hooked me because she supervisor 4 men many years her senior and she was 21 years old. She hooked me because she has a soft strength that I to this day still don't understand. She hooked me because she called me on shit. She hooked me because she was stunning. Not because I wanted to bend her over a couch but because I couldn't stop looking at her and wonder who the hell is this person?

^^^^This times 1000^^^^
It varies from relationship to relationship, but it's not the nookie. Relatively speaking, that's cheap.

In my case, I met a woman who, with only a HS diploma has over 100 people she supervises. Who lost 100lbs and took up body building as a hobby. Who's ethics and morality I looked up to. She was honest to a fault. Came over and shoveled my driveway with her kids once during a snowstorm when she knew I would be arriving home late, hell we were only dating!!

I want the whole package. I want someone to travel by my side down this road and not on my back. If issues arise, sure, I can carry her for a while, but I'm gonna put her back down to walk on her own two feet. Who knows, she may have to carry me for a little bit and that would be awful tough from my back.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2070 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
wincing_at_light
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Member # 14393
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aliens have landed because this is obviously from URANUS

Stealing this.


Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
hardlessons
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Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 2:07 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Men who are always attractive, always enforce those strong boundaries.. don’t get cheated on. By the time they get to a point where a woman will cheat, she will be far gone. And a man happy will always have a woman who joins him mutually. She is willing and wants that man, she will do anything for this man. When he finds this woman, he is keenly aware and he fills all her needs, every one of those needs to the best of his ability. He expects nothing less in return from his partner. If he gets less, he brings on safe healthy conflicts.. if he see he us with an irrational woman not having the values of reciprocity, that man will dismiss that woman. No “I do” prevents this man from maintaining his own happiness. This man has courage. Most of us I bet had that once…


So I went back to page 22 and this attitude is all about my way or the highway and assuming you are a mind reader and fulfill her every need and desire. There is no room for anyone but you in this which sounds a little narcissistic.

I know for myself that not only is this out of balance and puts me above my wife, it is not how healthy relationships work. Enforcing boundaries on others does not work in relationships, religion or state matters. There is always a consequence for that behavior and while we might win a battle or two, we will lose the Marriage.

I also do not want to be sheriff of my wife or others. Courage is being man enough to stand equally and side by side with my spouse, not above her or by the short hairs. Unfortunately for me and others here I have to factor in her past choices. True and painful, but I choose to make my choices based on who I am, not because of how I think others should behave…

WAL, I heard that somewhere just can't remember where....


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 2:14 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Stealing this.

WAL, I heard that somewhere just can't remember where....
Stealing this is a really common phrase.

Interesting take on it hardlessons. I would have to force myself to reread all of it to see if I agree. My first thought regarding the list was that I didn't want to move to Stepford, and my next thought was that I sure as hell wasn't going to take the pills myself.


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 2:19 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You fill every need of a woman.. you know them… and you execute them to the best of your ability.

Posted on page 22. Most are pretty easy. None are more or less that important.

If he's gonna read that then he should read the pages following where *every single differing male perspective on this forum* deconstructs what you said and points it out as worse than useless but potentially damaging.


Of course we all know what the “giving” was to hook us.. SEX. Perhaps she was nice too. Not too tough huh for a woman to do? Oh but how that changes when the mask come off… I can look real hard at myself and also see many men that post that fell under that quote.

So you got "hooked" into being married because your wife let you poke your cock in her? I think your entire fundamental groundwork for relationships may be the flaw there, not the execution. Maybe, I dunno, get rid of the deck of cards and buy some concrete and 2x4's and start over instead of lathering on superglue to that big mess.

Something a woman needs that perhaps should have been on top of that list..

A woman needs a man who will challenge every bad behavior.

Of course, the fear we place on ourselves is when we accept that bad behavior because we failed to be taught how to conflict. Oh how hard it is to have courage to deliver that final ultimatum when our women continue bad behaviors.. that ultimatum being.. “Honey, If you don’t stop getting drunk, you will be disqualified to be my W.”

No, this is called being a daddy instead of a husband. If that's the kind of woman you want, great. It works. Spank her whenever she opens her bitch mouth out of line. For the rest of us establishing boundaries and observing them as a means of maintaining our own identities is the healthy avenue, not using them as consequences and punishment for a subservient woman who stepped out of line.

tryn, stop pushing this stuff so hard that you refuse to see what everyone else is pointing at.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7115 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
wert
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Default  Posted: 3:19 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Aliens have landed because this is obviously from URANUS

That's funny right there.

For the rest of us establishing boundaries and observing them as a means of maintaining our own identities is the healthy avenue, not using them as consequences and punishment for a subservient woman who stepped out of line.

Yes, but I would take that a step further and say I need, especially after her A, my wife to do that for herself. I need her to be responsible for her own shit because it transfers that hyper vigilance from me (post d-day) back to her. I don't want it.

take it easy....



Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
StillGoing
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Default  Posted: 3:27 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, but I would take that a step further and say I need, especially after her A, my wife to do that for herself. I need her to be responsible for her own shit because it transfers that hyper vigilance from me (post d-day) back to her. I don't want it

Just wanted to agree. I'm fighting back the overwhelming compulsion to rant about how awesome our new dryer is and my plans to secretly reprogram the midi player in it to have a series of different tunes to play based on how damp or wet the clothes in it are. Like, a little damp is something laid back like Tesla, but transferring one of those blankets that weighs Fuzzy lbs when dry and Rival Gravity Well when wet sets off DOOM music.

I guess I ranted a little anyway.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7115 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
Mikey56
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Default  Posted: 4:07 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, but I would take that a step further and say I need, especially after her A, my wife to do that for herself. I need her to be responsible for her own shit because it transfers that hyper vigilance from me (post d-day) back to her. I don't want it.

^^^Amen Brother. That hyper vigilance bullshit has got to go.

I found myself googling Keyloggers and I thought WTF? If this is what it has come to...I'm out.

I refuse to be a parole officer. What's next...ankle bracelets? I will extend my trust and if it is broken again, she loses the prize...that would be ME.

[This message edited by Mikey56 at 4:10 PM, April 4th (Thursday)]


Posts: 108 | Registered: Jan 2013
64fleet
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Default  Posted: 5:19 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hear you mikey. I remember when I was about to buy a VAR to plant in her car-I decided I really didn't want to hear what she sez about me after all...now I've detached so its great.


time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So Sunday I was watching The Amazing Race my favorite show. Max and Katie are newlyweds and contestants. Katie is quite the catch too. Smart with PhD, golfer, beautiful some sort of pro cheerleader or beauty queen and self proclaimed ball buster. I bet she’s loving Max up pretty good. Her pet peeve about her H , “he has no respect or consideration for anyone’s time. He is always late. Ugh.” I noticed she was calling Max stupid. Stupid this and Stupid that. She’s pretty critical of him. He says nothing. I guess he doesn’t want to be her parole officer.


Max only wants to be himself. He’s only a few minutes late and breaks some promises. He ignores his W’s cutting him down.. he can take it and accept that. Once those years roll by and the romance phase of the marriage moves into the disillusionment phase. Oh she’s going to loses interest in sex… Will he get though this phase? Can he make it through the next phase? Misery…. to make it to mature love? The saga is a pattern. Retrouvaille.. (Romance, Disillusionment, misery, mature love)


Too me, Max and Katie’s fate is pretty predictable, if they don’t change, one of them is going to eat the apple or leave. People can only take so much. Just because you think all is well does not mean others think the same.


If you have been around enough divorced people and pick their brains there is a common theme.. Someone got tired of not being paid attention. No attention = get it outside the marriage.


So let’s look at the stats behind that security of the, “I do”. 40%-60% of all married women don’t cheat depending on the study. What was it about these woman? Well, 33% of all marriage live in acceptance and not happy with their spouse. These women usually stay for the kids or security perhaps other things. I suppose these me enjoy the maintenance sex or just that kind of friendship. That leaves the others. What about 27% woman not broken? And the stats say 33% of all marriage are happy. Yes, I wanted one of these but let’s face it, our odds are not so good starting off.

I have come to learn that there is also something about those men who have married these woman and all I do is share. What is it? These men know how to open up their women in every way. I am saying these are the men who fill every need of his woman to the best of their ability. Those are the men who fill all the needs of his woman to a point she not dare risk losing him.

You guys gave me a great example of how to shut people up. Let say someone comes to you with an idea that you fill every need of a woman.. This will protect you in your own future so your woman will then be open to you and you can have the intimacy you desire.

You can think of every reason not to be that kind of man. Too moral, Too hard, I want my wife to just accept me for who I am.. and I get this response.

“Aliens have landed because this is obviously from URANUS “
Let me “not devastate you”
“There is no room for anyone but you in this which sounds a little narcissistic.”
“stop pushing this stuff so hard that you refuse to see what everyone else is pointing at”

Those are great examples of behaviors and comments that shut people down. You can do that stuff to me because I don’t care, but I sure hope you don’t do it to your wives when you disagree. That will shut them down. You shut your W’s communication with you and you are going face some consequences.

The idea I share is to make the effort to be a quality man in every way. The law of reciprocity will kick in. You fill needs but I am not saying you are her pool boy. No, you are not her daddy either.. you are in a real relationship that is mutual in every way.

There are reasons for everything. I’m open to all you men have to offer and have read all your post and most say the woman is broken. Some are… but a strong man will know a broken woman and do something about it in the disillusionment stage because there are a whole bunch of signs and signals. And yes, in some small cases that may end the marriage.. only for you now to be blessed with a good woman. Ignorance was me.

What I too wanted was a woman to just accept me the way I was. But life is not that way.

Here is what Michelle Langley, an expert, says about the woman who cheat on men…


Women's relationships today follow a very predictable pattern:
- They push men for commitment
- They get what they want
- They lose interest in sex
- They become attracted to someone else
- They start cheating
- They become angry and resentful
- They begin telling their partners that they need time apart
- They blame their partners for their behavior...and eventually, after making themselves and everyone around them miserable for an indefinite, but usually, long period of time, they end their relationships or marriages.

Does that sound familiar?

I look at that progression and now know there were thing about me that could have changed what happened. I have great hindsight. So, I take what I now know and not make that mistake again.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hardlessons
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Default  Posted: 8:26 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, your saying that your wife cheating on you was your fault right?

And I wasn't trying to shut you up. I was calling serious bullshit on what you posted. Big difference

[This message edited by hardlessons at 8:29 PM, April 4th (Thursday)]


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
5454real
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Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 8:42 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The idea I share is to make the effort to be a quality man in every way. The law of reciprocity will kick in. You fill needs but I am not saying you are her pool boy. No, you are not her daddy either.. you are in a real relationship that is mutual in every way.

After my first M failed, I tried to be that man. I've currently been married about 10 years. In that time:
She has cooked maybe 15 times
I do 80% of the laundry
I clean the house 50 %
When our son was born I took 95% of the night feedings
I do most of the yardwork
I give her a "scratchie" (mini massage" almost every night
I do the dishes
I do all the grocery shopping
I took her flowers at work at least monthly
I cooked for all of her supervisors quarterly
I went to 95% of her medical appts
When son is sick, I stay home

She still cheated. Where/when does the "law" of reciprocity kick in.

My issue is that you can fill every need, every desire and they will still cheat. It is something broken within them.

My fWW went to a guy who fucked her when she was 12 and used and shared her til she was 16. He was 4 or 5 years older. He is bankrupt, divorced and living in a pig sty. How does that fit the model?

I don't want you to shut down. I appreciate each and every view on this site. I don't agree with them all though.

My question for you would be, in my sitch, what more could I have done?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2070 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 10:57 PM, April 4th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You can think of every reason not to be that kind of man. Too moral, Too hard, I want my wife to just accept me for who I am.. and I get this response.

“Aliens have landed because this is obviously from URANUS “
Let me “not devastate you”
“There is no room for anyone but you in this which sounds a little narcissistic.”
“stop pushing this stuff so hard that you refuse to see what everyone else is pointing at”

Those are great examples of behaviors and comments that shut people down. You can do that stuff to me because I don’t care, but I sure hope you don’t do it to your wives when you disagree. That will shut them down. You shut your W’s communication with you and you are going face some consequences.

The idea I share is to make the effort to be a quality man in every way. The law of reciprocity will kick in. You fill needs but I am not saying you are her pool boy. No, you are not her daddy either.. you are in a real relationship that is mutual in every way.


You take very rational responses - and some humorous ones - and turn them into complete and total bullshit.

Nobody said it's too hard or too moral.

Your list on page 22? I beat every single point. Every. Single. One. I could go into detail if you like. That makes me fucking perfect. Some from my vantage of unassailable awesomeness, I say: you're wrong.

Michelle Langley is not an expert, she's a woman on the Internet spouting the same tired bullshit other people have spouted. She has about as much to qualify her as an expert as that hairdresser guy. These people call whatever the fuck they want "research" and nobody questions it. Hairdresser guy's "research" was listening to customers as he did their hair. Shit, give that sumbitch a badge and invoke an argument from authority.

TLDR: Michelle Langley is a hack.

This isn't shutting you down unless you refuse to have a discourse. You just keep reiterating the same things over and over and there are only so many ways to respond and say: no, see, that doesn't work for most people. No, see, that's disrespectful and obnoxious. No, see, treating your wife like she's a half wit child incapable of making a rational decision which requires you to loom over her to ensure she does everything the way she should and smack her when she's bad does not work.

Nobody disagrees with you about having boundaries and enforcing boundaries, but you're not going to sell the illusion of control. Not just because it's incorporeal, nobody would want it anyway.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7115 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
hardlessons
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Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 12:23 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Michelle Langley info from her own site..

"Michelle Langley was a professional public speaker, specializing in career development, for over 11 years. After her interest was sparked by a series of unrelated incidents, she began an independent inquiry into women's sexual behavior which lasted for over a decade. Michelle's books have helped thousands of men and women break out of limbo and move forward in their lives and marriages."

Are you kidding me???? All her years as a woman and she only has 10 years of experience in women's sexual behavior???

Seriously, this is the basis for this "independent inquiry". I could argue the fact and location of the Valley of Anduin before I would by her book..


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
aesir
♂ Member
Member # 17210
Default  Posted: 1:37 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I read both of her fucking books in the early days, Women's Infidelity, and Women's Infidelity 2, cover to cover in both cases.

Her research method consisted of talking to women who had affairs to find out why they had affairs. That is a period at the end of the sentence, for good reason. Many of these women were still having affairs, most had remained secrets, few had actually dealt with them. The great insight she gained into it was that it was important for a cheating woman to figure out what her why was. Fair enough on that point, we kinda push that idea here as well. The difference is that Michelle Langley actually thinks an example of a valid "why", and this is in her book, is :"I heard he had a big penis, and I would always feel deprived if I didn't try it for myself." Yup, no reason to dig any deeper than that!

You know why she started doing that? Because in her own book she admits that she cheated on her long term boyfriend. Then she felt bad and wondered why. She also believes it is for the best that she did it because he moved on to be happy with someone else, and she moved on and is happy with herself.

Both of her god damned books are nothing but self delusional excuses for why she cheated. She has no remorse, and she still hasn't figured out why. She has no interest in figuring out why. If she came here and posted in Wayward, they would eat her alive, right up until she got banned because SI doesn't allow unremorseful waywards who aren't working on their shit to carry on and remain members.

I am actually picturing a Michelle Langley thread starter over on Wayward right now. Believe me, you guys want get the PPV for this event going on in my head, even without any of the guys joining in.

==============================================================================================================

I have come to learn that there is also something about those men who have married these woman and all I do is share. What is it? These men know how to open up their women in every way. I am saying these are the men who fill every need of his woman to the best of their ability. Those are the men who fill all the needs of his woman to a point she not dare risk losing him.
You know, that kind of behavior can also breed a sense of narcissistic entitlement. You know why most of history was filled with wars? Because everyone treated the people who made the decisions just that way. I have come to believe that nobody should get married until they get to a point in their life where they don't need anyone to fill their needs, and can be quite comfortable being alone, and at that point they should find a partner who has reached that stage with similar values and direction and all the other crap that they can respect and who respects them, and only then should they get married.

As far as Max and Katie on The Amazing Race, what isn't scripted on modern reality shows is edited to fit whatever dramatic narrative the producers want to push for ratings. It's not real, it's not about reality, it's about ratings.

[This message edited by aesir at 1:51 AM, April 5th (Friday)]


Your mileage may vary... in accordance with the prophecy.

Do not back up. Severe tire damage.


Posts: 14924 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: Winnipeg
trynhard
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Default  Posted: 6:25 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hardlessons
So, your saying that your wife cheating on you was your fault right?

It was her decision to betray me. She did it for a reason. There was no excuse from my wife because she did not use any of my behaviors as Justification.

I am not going to get into the endless hamster wheel blame game discussion.

No reason justifies infidelity. Never an excuse with value.

IMO, You will never be able to fix your W... You can only fix what you do. She can join you in a better relationship or not.

If our children are never taught that when a dirty old man comes up to them wanting to give them candy to see them naked.. our child may do that. It is not that child’s fault the man has a sickness wanting to abuse our children. If the child did not know to run and fight, it is not that child’s fault. If someone tells that child what to do, then they know what to do. They fight, run, make that sick man no longer part of their world. Who taught us how to treat a woman? Who teaches us how to conflict in a good way?

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:32 AM, April 5th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454real

Those items you listed are love of service and all good... For me I was kinda the same man. But I just moved away from things I did in the romance part of our relationship.. for all kinds of reasons.

I moved to the mode of operation where when I wanted sex, I was giving attention.

So many other things are the important.

Do you make out with your wife a few times a week? Just a long kiss?

Did you affirm her everyday? several times a day.. in different ways...

You touch your wife everyday in some way that is loving.

You just sit and talk.. listen.. everyday.. 10-30 minutes?

What about the way you criticized your wife? the self evaluation list is long.

And so many other minor easy things we usually just quit doing in our M.

StillGoing... I think you've been around here long enough and you could write a book. I would consider you an expert. She did research on the matter.. wrote book.. she is qualified.

Her book does not teach how to prevent nor many solutions other than.. and something I strongly believe about her book.. if a woman is "wishy washy" about R.. You leave. Her book comes from the offenders thoughts.. Pay attention I say. Take home something of value vs cutting it down.

I know that book resonates with me.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:26 AM, April 5th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:55 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

aesir

self delusional excuses

Just curious brother.. what is the difference between an excuse and a reason?

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:55 AM, April 5th (Friday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Ascendant
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Member # 38303
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Do you make out with your wife a few times a week? Just a long kiss?

Did you affirm her everyday? several times a day.. in different ways...

You touch your wife everyday in some way that is loving.

You just sit and talk.. listen.. everyday.. 10-30 minutes?

What about the way you criticized your wife? the self evaluation list is long.

And so many other minor easy things we usually just quit doing in our M.

And listen, trynhard, I don't believe that anyone here is saying that they were the perfect husband prior to their wife's A, or that this list here ^^^ isn't full of perfectly nice things to do for your wife.

We're just saying that while it's a fine list of cool, loving things you can do for/with your wife, that there is no way in hell that you can fill every single 'hole' in your wife's personality. If their self-esteem bucket has holes in it, there is no way, no how, ever, that you can make it runneth over with charm and acts. And for most of us, to believe that we can, has made (or would make) us crazy.

You can see it over in the Wayward forum for yourself....or somewhere there's a thread (ICR, maybe) called 'Honey, They Always Affair Down'...there are dozens of stories of WWs on here who openly admit that nothing their BH could have done would have been enough, because their 'needs' were amorphous(sic?) and shifting.

You can only ever really know 1/100th of 1% of what goes on in your WW's brain, and so to try to anticipate her every emotional/physical/psychological need seems (to me) to be ill-planned, exhausting, and frankly, disrespectful of their own autonomy as an individual. But that's just me.

And in response to the Michelle Langley thing...I've never read her book. But to me, it sounds like a case of availability bias. Good, quality Social Science research makes an honest attempt to be representative of the population at large, and it seems like in this case perhaps the author sought out like-minded people and sampled them for her research? Bad sampling skews the results.

And I'd be careful with the term 'expert'. Steve Harvey wrote a relationship book....expert? No. "Stand-up philosopher" is more like it (for anyone who's ever seen 'History of the World, Part 1). I have a BA in Political Science...which I'd argue makes me an 'expert' relative to the general population, sure, but I am in no way qualified to write a book about it. Michael Jordan is certainly a basketball 'expert', but that hasn't stopped him from failing in every single non-playing capacity. 'Expert' is a nebulous term is what I'm saying, I suppose. In a consumer-driven culture, there seems to be a tendency to equate "popular" and "makes a lot of money" with expertise in that particular field, as opposed to just being an expert at separating people from their wallets.

[This message edited by FacePunched at 8:26 AM, April 5th (Friday)]


“Anyone who has a continuous smile on his face conceals a toughness that is almost frightening.”

Posts: 1611 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Illinois
StillGoing
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Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 8:31 AM, April 5th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StillGoing... I think you've been around here long enough and you could write a book. I would consider you an expert. She did research on the matter.. wrote book.. she is qualified.

Her book does not teach how to prevent nor many solutions other than.. and something I strongly believe about her book.. if a woman is "wishy washy" about R.. You leave. Her book comes from the offenders thoughts.. Pay attention I say. Take home something of value vs cutting it down.

I would not consider myself an expert. Being an expert on a subject involves some serious in depth knowledge that goes well beyond experience and conversation. There is a lot more to research than talking to people and reading wikipedia articles. It can give a great perspective but it is not authoritative. Further, even experts can and often are wrong. If an expert opinion is a stupid opinion, it shouldn't be given merit just because it came out of a particular mouth.

I agree that if woman *or man* is not all in for R then R is not going to work. I also agree that for me, the best solution would be to leave. On dday my wife knew this. There was a lot of TT bullshit after that but NC was immediate and she put herself on a course of self correction for real personal growth and problem solving. I was beyond the "I'm a strong man and not going to tolerate this shit" place, I was into "I don't have the energy to baby sit your bullshit and stay sane so you need to be a grown up."

I am right there with you about reciprocity but that is because of WANT not NEED. Coddling my wife is something I love to do. When she was pregnant and wanted a calzone I drove around for four hours and six townships to get one, but it was Monday and in NJ all the Italian places are closed on Mondays so I got dough and made her one. I paint her fucking toenails because she feels cared for. I don't and never did do that shit for sex. I do it because I love her and like to make her feel loved and special, and have always done that for those reasons for the past 20 years.

My wife cheated because she was fucked up in the head man. She said I wasn't in shape enough, and she was right, I mean I was at a desk job for like 15 years and you get older, your body doesn't stay awesome on its own, so to get in shape and do it in a way that would be impossible for me to shit on myself for being less than manly I went to an MMA place where the local military and swat guys train at. I got my ass kicked by a 90 lb girl my second day. btw if a girl asks "Which side hurts?" don't tell her when she's on top of you with a fist raised. Or lie and tell her the other side.

I said a few pages ago you can't superman a fucked relationship back to happy. No matter how many times you swoop in and save a woman from some fucked up behavior she's just going to do it again and again until she gets her head out of her ass and grows the fuck up. I like my self rescuing princess. I still treat her like one, spending obscene amounts of money on chocolate and flowers on Commercial Romance Day because it's a good excuse to go buy that 150 dollar box of Godiva even if everyone else in the store is female and staring at me like I'm a walking toadstool.

As for Langley, her book comes from a remorseless, unrepentant offenders mind. There are plenty of remorseful, repentant, HARD WORKING offenders here who I have a deep and abiding respect for. I hold her book up to their dedication and arduous process of working back to being people they can be proud to be and I see a flimsy pile of whiny bullshit tailored perfectly for an audience looking for a shallow, self absorbed perspective to validate their decisions to avoid looking any deeper into their own responsibilities for what they have done.

I have nothing but contempt for that woman. She is the absolute antithesis to every solid, sane, dedicated WS on this forum.

eta:

To go a little further with the expert thing - the Dog Whisperer? Not only not an expert, but everything he does is wrong. If you speak with an actual, real expert who works with, studies and trains dogs, ask about Dog Whisperer.

He makes for great TV though.

See, barely plausible bullshit sells easily. You place something there that, if you just scratch the surface a tiny bit, it looks legit. It's actually a game with me and my bro in law. We are good at straight-face funny bullshit.

Did you know a sperm whale got it's name because in the early days of sailing, they would ram boats and their skulls would explode against the hulls of heavily armored Roman Quinquiremes? Those were the 5 decked massive warships they had, don't remember if it was late Republic or Imperial. Anyway, when they penetrated the hull their cracked skulls would ooze this spooge like substance all over the place, and the Romans, who were all about cock jokes - btw ever see Rome the TV show? One of my absolute favorites, there is cock graffiti everywhere too - thought it was kinda funny and looked like spooge, and the giant whale poking out of the side of the ship was like a huge sperm penetrating an egg, which is also why Athens chose Athena as a patron goddess because from that came the myth of Hephaestus attempting to rape Athena, but she said fuck that and his splooge got all over the ground instead and impregnated Gaia. Athena raised the kid as her own, and that turned out to be Erichthonius, first king of Athens.

Now I'm not an expert but almost all of that is true. The game is figuring out what's bullshit. I could spin you some fire breathing dinosaurs if you like.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 8:44 AM, April 5th (Friday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

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