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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 9
PhatDaddy
♂ Member
Member # 35367
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, January 4th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, here it is day #3, and she still didn't make herself available to talk to the boys with me. She was getting ready for bed (giving me that "I'm so exhausted" look), and I asked her if she'd like to take a minute to talk to S18. She looked at me with this really perturbed look on her face and said, "If you want to sleep up there, then sleep up there."

I just said, very matter of factly, "Ok", and returned to the den.

She really just doesn't get it. I thought she was so concerned over what the boys would think, that they'd dive into a downward spiral if they saw their dad sleeping in the spare bedroom. I think the truth is, if it doesn't effect her routine, then it's not important to her.

I could tell by her reaction that she thinks I'm being silly and immature. Lol. She ought to be on THIS end, then I think she'd start to understand just what it is I'm going through just being in the same house with her.

I know we can't say for sure what the other would do if the roles were reversed, but after 21 years with this gal, I have a pretty good idea.

She'd be expecting her to lick her boots....kiss her ass 24/7...withhold sex from me...and let me do all the shit that my codependent ass would do to try to fix it, loving it all the while, every day from now to eternity.

She said before that she felt like things were going really well, that she was actually looking forward to coming home in the evenings, when all of a sudden something would throw me into a tailspin and throw everything back to square one (she's right about that, as she hasn't been very effective at rebuilding my trust in her the last nine months). She didn't want to live like that, having to go back and forth on the roller coaster that our life had become.

WELL, DUH!! Welcome to my fucking world!

I told her that the IHS would help us work on ourselves, and that I was going to go to IC. She asked who I was going to see. She then told me that she didn't feel comfortable with me seeing the Dr that counseled us when I had my porn incident in 2004, and counseled her a couple of sessions (I didn't know about these) when she was in the A and wanted to find out why she felt the way she did about things). She feels like he has an "agenda" that he likes to push onto patients. I had seen him twice since Dday, with the intent on getting insight into how best to deal with the A....I came home full of questions and anger towards her after the sessions, and she got pretty pissy with me about that (Codependent ass me would back down and say that I didn't like the way I felt after leaving his office, so maybe it wasn't good for me to see him if we were going to try to make it work).

I initially agreed to find a new therapist, and got a call from a lady therapist in town. I don't know her, don't know anything about her other than she's a licensed family counselor.

But I got to thinking this evening....why NOT go see the guy who knows me, knows the situation, and is a Christian counselor to boot? Should I let her have a say in whom I see as a therapist? Should I be concerned about her comfort level, when what I'm going to counseling for is to get some help in figuring out how I can be happy?

I'm thinking not. Plus, he's $20 cheaper per hour, and I don't have a lot of extra money right now.

What do you guys think?


Me: BH (48)
Her: FWW (43)
LTA (2+ years)
Found out: 3-5-2012
D-day: 4-2-2012
Taking charge of my own happiness.
I've got to learn not to put my heart on a tee.

Posts: 163 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: SC
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 11:35 AM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Phat - you see who you want to see man. The days of letting an unremorseful manipulator yank your chain are ending.

A word of caution. I was watching an online show @ catching cheaters, and they have the obligatory "expert" - usually with a PhD duh gree, intoning that people cheat because "their needs aren't being met".

If you catch one whiff of that, blow it out your nose. It's simply not true.
It's damaging - to put in BS's minds, that they've got something to do with the WS's choice to betray.

It was, is, and always will be - 100% their choice.
Just do not let that falsehood from the nodding nincompoops rattle around in your brain one millisecond.
SI is a great bullshit detector, & that's a flippin cowpie that's been turned over here a time or two.

I hope your guy is a great resource for you getting into you.
Along those lines, telling your WW what you're doing is not "kids and finances only", iow, counterproductive to your healing.
Your thinking, plans, and heart need to be off limits - it's part of protecting yourself.

Take the "talk with the kids" scenario.
Has she not used delay, fatigue, & overall avoidance tactics?
Are you not pissed and frustrated?
To hell with that then. Don't give her that power. Don't give her any power.

You're a smart guy. Google 'how to tell the kids'...research it for ideas and good grounding...age-appropriate stuff. You can do it, I know you can.

One thing I do know, is to just "go fishing"...throw a football around...the time you spend truly bonding with them in (apparently) easy, innocuous play & just "time together" will reap huge relational dividends with you guys.
They'll open up when they're ready, ask questions, etc., while you are telling them with your easy-going presence that "you are there for them."

God bless us all & Happy New Year guys!


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
PhatDaddy
♂ Member
Member # 35367
Default  Posted: 4:10 PM, January 5th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your thinking, plans, and heart need to be off limits - it's part of protecting yourself.

This is something that I've got to practice more of.

Thanks for your input, jj....I really appreciate it!


Me: BH (48)
Her: FWW (43)
LTA (2+ years)
Found out: 3-5-2012
D-day: 4-2-2012
Taking charge of my own happiness.
I've got to learn not to put my heart on a tee.

Posts: 163 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: SC
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 8:56 PM, January 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

phats,
my cynical side tells me that she doesnt want you seeing that Dr. because he knows something that you dont and that she doesnt want you finding out about.
I mean C'mon, she had to go to counseling because you looked at some porn?!?! That seems a bit dramatic.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
PhatDaddy
♂ Member
Member # 35367
Default  Posted: 11:32 PM, January 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

See my post in D/S. would like your input.


Me: BH (48)
Her: FWW (43)
LTA (2+ years)
Found out: 3-5-2012
D-day: 4-2-2012
Taking charge of my own happiness.
I've got to learn not to put my heart on a tee.

Posts: 163 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: SC
LonelyHusband
♂ Member
Member # 34145
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it was the emotional attachment that killed me. It was her telling me how much she loved him. choosing loyalty to him over loyalty to me time and time again.

14 months in, still makes me grimace.


BS ( me) 41
fWS (OktoberMest) 35
D day #1 29/10/2011, D day #2 15/112011, D day #3 15/03/2012
Reconciling.
“It’s better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all”, is inadequate consolation when you vacuum up a child's hamster'

Posts: 1279 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: UK
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:07 AM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Damn man, what kind of porn were you looking at, Wookie on Jawa or something?

eta:

Aren't there adultery laws in SC that can hose her down? Talk to a lawyer before you do some online D, don't listen to anything she says. Get legal counsel ASAP.

Also man, her reading your posts doesn't mean she has insight, it means she has ammo. Her dismantling shit you said is just par for the course for this shit. There's no way between here and Valhalla that she's going to be an ice cold rug sweeping bitch at you for months, then after stumbling across your innermost thoughts suddenly feel the need to care about someone besides herself - nothing changed, so she is going to view all this stuff through the same lens she always has.

Don't just immediately assume everything she says or rebuts is valid because she says so. Look at the situational facts before you let that go.

And man really, REALLY don't just do some online D bullshit that will hand her everything. Really get yourself legal counsel, *yesterday*.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:13 AM, January 8th (Tuesday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:15 AM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Phat - since your unremorseful & scheming ww reads what we say here, I will withhold advice to you for now.

Yeah, I know the 'so what' & 'you've only told the truth' part, but my advice to you (take it or leave it) would be pro-active & 'protect yourself' in nature.

I don't want her knowing that.

Have you at least secured your pm's so she can't access them?


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
stilllovingher
♂ Member
Member # 29959
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

everything StillGoing just said

and secondly,
move your ass back into YOUR bed. You dont need to disrupt your life because she is unremorseful. There are other very valid reasons for this as well, do it.
And for fuck sake, secure your PM's if you havent already.


The only difference between a butt kisser and a brown noser is depth perception.
I'm sure WAL would agree.

Posts: 2385 | Registered: Oct 2010 | From: still BFE, but now BFE, CA
PhatDaddy
♂ Member
Member # 35367
Default  Posted: 1:38 PM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, guys. Yeah, there was no insight, no miracle lifting of the fog.

I don't care if she reads this or not...I'm not saying anything that I haven't told her or she doesn't already know. But I'm not crazy...what I've learned about myself is that I can control my impulses by thinking about shit before I talk or type.

All PM's are dealt with.

BTW...the porn I was looking at back in the day was merely beautiful women in various modes of undress...nothing hard core or illicit.

She has since told me that she would've left me years ago if not for the boys.

My offense? Really just not "meeting her needs." I have never mistreated her, embarrassed her in public, humiliated her in front of people, cheated on her (not so much as a kiss with anyone else in 22 years), been a DECENT provider, a great father (ask my kids....or her. She will never deny that, and has said so).

So the only thing that I've really done wrong is not find a way to meet the needs of a wife, who admitted that she has "changed a lot" since we've been married. Feel like I've been shooting in the dark at a moving target all these years. Meh....water under the bridge.

I'm good, though, guys....I really am. Sure, I have bad days, but all in all I'm comfortable with my mindset today, and I'm optimistic for the future.


Me: BH (48)
Her: FWW (43)
LTA (2+ years)
Found out: 3-5-2012
D-day: 4-2-2012
Taking charge of my own happiness.
I've got to learn not to put my heart on a tee.

Posts: 163 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: SC
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 1:51 PM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Isn't it amazing that when people enter into a relationship, they suddenly have NEEDS that MUST BE MET by SOMEONE ELSE.

I feel bad for these people, since they will obviously curl up and die if they ever have to fend for themselves as, goodness forbid, they may just be alone for awhile and those needs will necessarily go unmet and my my, wither and die.

/sarcasm

Needs are bullshit. The only people unable to meet their own needs are juveniles who require parental support and those lacking the mental faculty to fend for themselves. Everything else is a want that requires personal attention to achieve via honesty and clear communication.

"Unmet needs" is the clarion call of someone who refuses to accept any kind of responsibility for their own behavior. It should set off fight or flight just hearing it, imo.

Sorry, ranty.


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
impastit
♂ Member
Member # 28951
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I got this "needs" horseshit too.

If I asked her what these "needs" are I got

1. Crickets
2. She'd say thats why we could never work out because I don't know
3. She'd say she told me a thousand times but I don't listen and she's not going to explain again

Blameshifting from the master of it.


"Get over it." Classic. Classic sociopath!

DDay 4/6/10 Filed DDay, smelled it coming, again
She moved to her happy place 5/2/10
D final 11/18/10
Thank God I got the dog.


Posts: 569 | Registered: Jul 2010
RyeBread
♂ Member
Member # 37437
Default  Posted: 4:50 PM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Needs are bullshit.

Thank-you Thank-you Thank-you... I've been having this debate with myself for a while now. My WW is as needy as needy gets. So good to hear that I'm not alone in this thinking. For a while I thought maybe there was something wrong, or insensitive about the way I thought. I expect a responsible, self-reliant partner who doesn't think they'll shrivel and die when they don't get what they WANT. It's emotionaly draining to have to prop someone else up all the time. Somehow people make it alone. If we were that emotionaly needy towards one another we'd all shrivel and die much earlier in life.


Let him that would move the world first move himself. - Socrates

Posts: 957 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Midwest
nuance
♂ Member
Member # 28793
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It was her telling me how much she loved him

I don't think we can ever get over this. Luckily we have now a lot of good memories which at least put things in perspective.


Dday May 2000. R'ed.
People suck.

Posts: 1160 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: California
PhatDaddy
♂ Member
Member # 35367
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow, guys, it just don't get much better than this!

Last Monday, I was still incensed over the fact that my WW rifled through my IPad and read all of my posts, PMs, etc. I took off my wedding band for the day, as I was so disgusted by everything that it DIDN'T mean to me anymore that I just couldn't bear to see it on my hand. That night my boys and I were watching the NC pre game when she arrived home from work....small talk...nothing out of the ordinary; things were pleasant and civil.

Then.....we both were in the kitchen together and she makes mention of me not wearing my ring, and didn't I think that that was something that we should've discussed before letting the boys see that and make them wonder what is going on?

We went to the garage to have a private conversation, and, without going into too much, we both put all the cards on the table. Last thing we discussed was that we were going to think about the best way to handle the situation with the boys, and talk again the next night or so.

I decided that, if I wanted to do things right, and without impulse, I would go ahead and continue to wear the ring, and just deal with any questions the boys had for me with honesty, but not divulge anything to them voluntarily.

She saw the next night that I had my ring on. No discussion. Nothing discussed, just business as usual. No drama. Fine.

Last night there was a bit of an issue when I got home from choir practice between S18 and WW. Now, these are 2 very strong-willed people. S18 is at a crossroads in his young life, and is trying to figure out what he's going to do for the next chapter in his life after HS. He wasn't home when I got there, and WW and S15 filled me in on everything. I told her I would talk with him and set him straight on an issue that we were both dead set that was not a good idea for him.

I had seen that S15 and WW were deep in discussion when I got home, and wanted to get an idea from him what all was discussed, whether it was all about S18 or anything else.

Well, guess what? She had gone ahead and told him everything about us getting prepared to separate, how I was quitting on the marriage, and I had done and said things behind her back...all this from the lady who was Child Protector Extraordinaire, hell bent on shielding the youngsters from the perils of a family breakup! Remarkable. She even went so far as discuss with him where she will probably move to once the house is sold. Dammit, man, she didn't hold much back at all!

Soooo.....S15 knows all about it. I did just tell him enough to know that I was not doing anything behind his moms back that was bad, even told him about SI and all. I also told him that I would never run his mom down in front of him, and if he heard me starting to, to call me out on it. I'm determined not to be "that guy". He actually was handling it very well, as--like I thought--he and his brother pretty much knew this was the road we were headed down.

I took the opportunity to talk to S18 last night and fill him in, so as not to have just one of them know exactly what's going on. He also figured that out already. I told him the same thing about not discussing anything detrimental about his mom in front of him. She and I were always on the same page about not putting the boys in the middle of our disagreements, as we both know that that is the sure fire way to fuck a kids head up when shit like this is going down.

Or so I thought.

This morning S15 needed to shower, but I was occupying the bathroom we share, doing my business (you can guess what I mean, of course). His mom was getting ready for work downstairs, so is asked him if he would mind showering in the master bath....he said sure.

Later, after his mom had left for work, I asked him how his mom was this morning. He said, "She's good....but she said something that I though was inappropriate." I asked him what she said.

"She asked why I wasn't showering upstairs, and I told her. She said that I wouldn't have to be sharing that bathroom if my dad wasn't being so ridiculous."

WTF???

I just said with a chuckle, that's ok...it's all good. And I left it at that.

It really makes me laugh. This woman is really out there. If I had a hundred years, I would never be able to get my brain around what's going on in her head. She is being as hypocritical as anyone I've ever known...but I'm just letting it ride...but setting the record straight with the boys without looking like a douchebag and running her down. I swear, I'm not going there, I don't care how bad she gets. I really DO want to protect them. They don't deserve this shit any more than I do.

Gonna take a lot of prayer, patience and vigilance to handle all the shit that manipulative, hypocritical, delusional, unremorseful WW of mine is fixing to dish out....to ALL of us!

OH!! I almost forgot something that S15 told me when he was filling me in on all that mom had told him about our situation. He wanted me to try to make sense of something she said to him....get this.....

She said to him, "I don't regret what I did, but I know it was wrong."

BAZINGA!!!

How 'bout that shit??

SMMFH


Me: BH (48)
Her: FWW (43)
LTA (2+ years)
Found out: 3-5-2012
D-day: 4-2-2012
Taking charge of my own happiness.
I've got to learn not to put my heart on a tee.

Posts: 163 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: SC
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:44 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow! No clue how to explain that one without slamming the STBXW. However,She said to him, "I don't regret what I did, but I know it was wrong." is a great gift to you.
If you ever waver/soften in your stance towards her, in a single sentence she was able to sum up why you would have to be bughouse nuts to ever reconsider the path you are taking.
Where did the women we thought we married go or is this the way they always were and we just failed to see?

Hang tough!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
StillGoing
♂ Member
Member # 28571
Default  Posted: 7:47 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PhatDaddy, GO SEE A FUCKING LAWYER RIGHT NOW.

Put down whatever the hell you are doing, pick up a phone and start punching numbers for lawyers and make an appointment to see one in 15 minutes.

This shit here:

Well, guess what? She had gone ahead and told him everything about us getting prepared to separate, how I was quitting on the marriage, and I had done and said things behind her back...all this from the lady who was Child Protector Extraordinaire, hell bent on shielding the youngsters from the perils of a family breakup! Remarkable. She even went so far as discuss with him where she will probably move to once the house is sold. Dammit, man, she didn't hold much back at all!

She manipulated you into doing nothing so she could seize total control of that situation and move it the direction she wanted it to go. She knows you will do as you say honorably and is taking advantage of that. She's manipulating YOUR CHILDREN. What do you think she's going to do to your finances and property and career and everything else?

Play fair. I am an advocate for honesty and fairness, but within the realm of reason - which means you GO RIGHT NOW and protect yourself. This woman has declared herself your enemy, if for no other reason than simply by lying to your children.

Don't hide anything from her if she asks, don't lie, just go NOW to a lawyer and protect yourself from her so you aren't destitute in a busted ass camper in a friends back yard like 64fleet's buddy. Because she WILL do that to you if you allow it.

eta:

That ring on your finger? Take it off if you want. Forget about what she wants, 180 right now.

You wearing that ring means something entirely different than her wearing it. She doesn't care about it so it's nothing but show for her. She's already gone out and fucked somebody else while wearing it.

For you it is a declaration of faith and loyalty, and if you are anything like me then you apparently ooze unavailability. It keeps you locked down by oaths and honor, which means it keeps you isolated and owned by her.

I took my ring off after dday and even though we ordered new rings it was months before I would put it on. It was my choice to make that declaration, because before that point I was not sure I wanted to be married. My wife is very remorseful and has gone above and beyond in trying to make things work, and I still wavered for a long time on whether or not I wanted to wear that ring.

In the end I did. During that time I got a lot of attention. Which was part of why I put it back on, it felt nice but it was awkward. You have no reason to wear that ring unless you want to keep it on until your D is finalized.

Don't let her manipulate you anymore. Go re-read the 180 and do it now, since I know you just called a lawyer and got great legal advice already.

Good luck man. Hang in there.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 7:53 AM, January 10th (Thursday)]


“Fate is a fickle bitch who dotes on irony.”

Posts: 7119 | Registered: May 2010 | From: USA
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 7:58 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep this^^^^^^^^SG has it on the head. Got so transfixed by her admission of having a complete lack of scruples that I lost sight of the damn forest cause the trees kept getting in the way. Get your ass to a lawyer. Whether through direct or indirect manipulation she's got you doing the same damn thing Dollars to donughts, she's got one already and your ass is in her crosshairs. Sociopath anyone?

Get ready! Protect yourself and those kids!


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2087 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
dday3302011
♂ Member
Member # 32043
Default  Posted: 10:03 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PhatDaddy, SG is totally right. Go see a lawyer NOW, as in today.

She thinks you're stupid. She thinks she can play you. She thinks you're gullible and naive. Not to be critical at all, but in a way you have been all of those things. You trusted her. You believed her. You didn't think she would play you like this. All very reasonable assumptions a man should make about his life partner and mother of his children.

The reality of it is this whole thing has become an exercise in passive-aggressive control. That's what all of this is about. All of it. You know who she is now. It's freeing really. She is very predictable. Use that to your advantage.


BH-41 (me)
xWW-42
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
PanicAttack53
♂ Member
Member # 34195
Default  Posted: 7:31 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK guys I'm back and I need some help again from a mans prospective. I'm going to try and make this as short and sweet as possible so here goes...

Some of you already know, but for those who don't, I'm currently S since 9/27/12 and I filed for D on 10/27/12. No need to go into the particulars....it is what it is now.

What I need advice on is this.. How many of you that are in the process of S, D or already through it had trouble with confidence issues initially when interacting with the opposite sex? While I'm NOT out seeking a relationship, I have been in lots of situations lately in mixed company. I'm not shy, nor have I ever been introverted. However, I just don't seem to have any kind of comfort level when in these situations now for fear (I guess) of stepping on my own toes. It's so bad right now that I can feel myself sweating through my clothes when a woman strikes up a simple conversation with me.

Anyone else go through this in the beginning? If so, how long did it take you to feel comfortable in carrying on a simple conversation with a woman? Was there anything you did specifically to get past the initial awkward stage I'm going through?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice on this.


Me-BH Her-XWW | B/ 60 | D final on 10/1/13 I'm Lovin' life again!
Rest of the story really doesn't matter any more.
“Realize deeply that the present moment is all you have.” ― Eckhart Tolle

Posts: 868 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Midwest
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