you will get hurt. Really hurt
This has already happened. His A and the aftermath showed me what he is truly capable of. In many ways, it destroyed who I was. Maybe a silver lining? It doesn't feel that way right now.
So we go from "I love you" 100 times a day (no exaggeration) to "F*** You!" when I call him out on lying. Lost his job 3 months ago, and the next morning after his latest tirade, he had a job interview. Made me promise to stay with him, or he was not going to go to the interview, he just would want to die instead. I promised. I see the manipulation. I had blamed myself these last 3 years after his A for being too tolerant of his lying. But now I am starting to see that I was forced into that role by his terrible rages.
I still have much work to do on myself to figure out how to move forward. I feel so weakened and sorrowful. I don't think I will ever win the zd award, though I have the utmost admiration for those who are deserving.
This Tribe is wonderful and welcoming. Thank you so much for your kindness.
I can already see the beginnings of your plan starting to form... Good for you!!
SoHurt, I don't want to "beat a dead horse" as it were, but I don't think it is paranoia. I can't let this go so I am listening to my guy and trusting you are listening to yours.
Detached sex? See my profile. I called it "scripted." It was a bad porno movie every single time. I guess I should be grateful there wasn't a set and a camera?
How about the conflict of getting told no if you asked for something sexual, but the argument that you were sexually unsatisfying because you never initiated or wanted it "bad enough" or in the "right way."
I cannot believe all the things I "gave away" and have had to reclaim.
as always, (((Tribe)))
Hello to all of the new ones to this thread. I am fairly new myself.
Just a few things...
SoHurt, Congratulations! I don't know much about you story but it seems you are doing very well and that is GREAT!
I am so very sorry to hear of your treatment. I don't believe they can really change either. It's not just what they do, it's who they are. I hope you will make the right decisions for you!
I also noticed a detachment with sex, not that there was any real attachment there anyway! And yes, it did seem like a bad porn movie, or it would have been had I let him do the disgusting things he wanted to do.
I also think NPDs are prone to cheating. I think it could be due to the fact that they never feel whole or full, so they are constantly on the look out for more. Add that to the complete lack of empathy and pathological lying and you have the perfect cheater! There really is no reason for them NOT to cheat!
I lived through so many years of his rages and had no clue why he would go insane. Even the last one where he put his fist in my face and threatened to beat the crap out of me, he thought a note saying he was sorry would make me stay. Seriously, that is what he told the judge!
His dad was an alcoholic wife beating, child beating serial cheater so little surprise he messed up his kids. But his mom truly believes that "Prince X" can do not wrong. She still babies him all the time. They both screwed him up and showed him that cheating was ok. Mom cheated on dad before she left him according to my x's first wife.
Sohurt, so happy to hear that you have won and I pray he will leave you alone now. Isn't he involved with some chick? Maybe she can feed him his kibbles and he will leave you guys alone.
Edith, please be careful when he rages. Mine started out just bizarre extreme rages but at the end he was going to violence against me. I never thought he would threaten to hit me but I was proven wrong. You need to either get away from him or call the cops when he rages. Get it on record with the police. I didn't do that and my attorney failed to get me an RO. I lived in fear for over a year after I left him. Please be careful.
CG, feel free to beat that horse, because I don't want to slip up and stop paying attention. In fact, I was sitting out on my porch yesterday, and I swear I saw him drive by in a former GF's (read OW!) car. I couldn't be 100% sure, so I didn't call it in, but it definitely got my attention and shows how careful I need to be. Keep on me. Also, I got the same as you did in the sex department. Never enough, satisfying, or right. Sheesh.
IC, I'll refer you to what I wrote to Edith above. It takes time, but you'll make it. Don't give up, because it's worth it to get free. Welcome to the club nobody wants to join. It's a hard road, but it can be done.
Hurt, thanks! My story is kind of spread out over the last several threads, which I don't have the links for. But trust me on this: it's not so different from anyone else's here. Details, yes... not the general story.
SVB, thank you, too! Yes, he's involved with someone else, but I heard something chilling from my IC yesterday. She's had a lot of experience with NPD, and she said I'm likely to be targeted and kept "on his list," because I'm the only one who ever stood up and walked away. She said those are the ones they never let go of or forget, because they are forced to see themselves for who they are. That's scary on the one hand, but thrilling, too... I said, "Good! I hope what he sees hurts and makes him really think for once about who he is. I doubt it, but I hope so!" Today, of course, I'm thinking, "Sh!t, that means I'll have to watch my back forever." Oh, well. I'm not going to let that ruin my partay!
[This message edited by SoHurt at 9:44 AM, July 19th (Friday)]
SVB, I also went more than 3 years with no physical intimacy, I stopped trying after so much rejection. Pornography was his thing, not me. What is self esteem again??
SoHurt, oh my goodness! The constant ILYs, I am absolutely amazed at the common behaviors!!
So I explained yesterday that because of all the lying, I am still going to be suspicious of things, even when he is telling the truth. I brought up an issue related to his job search where he had told me the recruiter called him and told him that he would be hearing from them again next wk. I had my doubts, but because of his rage/tirade last week, sucked it up and held it in. Last night, I finally said that I was having some doubts about the veracity of the phone call. He THANKED me for asking the question, got his phone and showed me the call from Monday afternoon. Then repeatedly thanked me the rest of the evening for asking that question.
More scrambled brains, I don't know if I will get a thank you or a rage the next time I doubt something he tells me. Is there really no rhyme or reason to their reactions? Or is the rage only when they really are lying? Am I overthinking this?? Trying to reason with insanity??
The good news is I have found this lovely Tribe after all this time. Thank you!!
[This message edited by Edith at 10:04 AM, July 19th (Friday)]
they never feel whole or full, so they are constantly on the look out for more.
We could name the next raging vortex of a sucking black hole that the Hubble telescope finds
On the sex thing, my pet was different. Hypersexual - I don't know if the term nymphomania is still used, but I think it's based on the same thing:
Always trying to fill a need,
satiate a hunger.
It's always about the hunger for self (knowing) in the end, isn't it?
The energy with which we pursue that is proportional to the energy they use to avoid that - magnified by the additional energy they are compelled to use - propping up the masks.
That's why they suck our energy. They need it for themselves.
Otoh, the general advice to "know thyself" is about the worst advice you could give *some* people!
Life is good, though. Great, even. Don't get down, just stay smart.
Is the reference to dying typical of NPD? We all know the cheating is...mine has been in a LTEA on and off for 4 years.
It's easiest to picture it as they are up on a big stage, making sure they're standing exactly in the spotlight. If you're a good prop, they'll interact with you on that stage. If you aren't, you're invisible or discarded.
Rinse and repeat.
They can't just be sad. They have to be THE MOST SAD. Same for all of the other "emotions." And their emotions are always, therefore, bigger and more important and more valid than yours.
Sohurt , congrats. Be aware. You dealt him a mighty blow, one he won't forget any time soon. He has to win and it isn't over till he wins. So please be very careful.
The sex ... Interesting. XH took great pride in his prowess. And he received kudos regularly little did I know I was feeding his ego. Maybe that was the reason he stayed so long His ego got stroked, so to speak.
I just woke up from the strangest dream I've had in a long, long time. I need to write it, but since I didn't want to write it twice, I'm going to share it here, and what I think it means. Sorry in advance for the length of this post and if it bores anyone.
When the dream started, I was at a fair with my mom. (I shared a lot in common with her, and loved her dearly.) She was showing a number of her animals, and I was showing my birds, (parrots,) and my horses. I was at a distance from them when I heard a ruckus. I went back, and found some woman in the aviary. She was trying to walk away, and I grabbed her and made her sit on a chair. I asked what she was doing, and she told me something like "just looking." I prodded further, and discovered she'd been going to steal my animals. Then it was found that a man was with her, as an accomplice. I went to him, and asked why they were doing this. He got mouthy and said something like we didn't deserve the animals. I figured out they were stealing them to sell. (Odd how you can be so sure of something in a dream and not sure of things in real life...) Anyway, I got angry with him about something he said, and I put him on the ground with my knee on his head. At this point, the police were on their way.
It was at that time that I suddenly realized I had to go to the bathroom. So I left mom and the others in control of the situation and left to find that bathroom. I never made it back. When I left, I went out of the fairgrounds for some reason, and located a bathroom. When I came out, I went the wrong way, though I didn't know it. I ended up in some lady's yard. When I saw her, I apologized for being there, and asked how to get out. The only way was through a fence, into the house. So in we went. She was polite, but there was a distinct sadness about her. As we went through, I saw her husband sitting there. He gave me instant bad vibes, and didn't respond to my hello with more than a glare. She pulled me aside, and said those people at the fair shouldn't go to jail. I thought that was really weird, but said ok.
We passed through a room with all kinds of baby items, all for a girl. The woman was very sad in this room, and said they'd lost their baby. I kept feeling like I knew something about all this, even these people, but couldn't fathom what it was. I left the house, and was really confused.
On I went, going the wrong way. I next encountered a young woman who seemed to know me. I asked her how to get back to the fairgrounds and my mom and animals. She said she would show me. I followed her, and was led to this sort of warehouse/hangar/odd place that was full of junk. There were several people there, though I only saw her bf at first. They gave me a pack of cigarettes and "my lighter," because I wanted a smoke. I didn't think it was my lighter, but was grateful for the cigs because of the stress. Suddenly, the others appeared and they threw a sheet or something over my head and held me down on a couch. They used some sort of electrical glass bulb on me that sort of shocked and disoriented me. I fought it, but didn't win. When that was over, I was "one of them."
So this girl and I la la la la la'ed around for a while, and I realized I was dressed as a saloon girl - not a career choice I'd like, but something like I was in my youth, shamefully. But I was dancing and leaping like a ballerina, enjoying myself. Then we were in a place that had a lot more people, all wearing costumes. They were menacing, but I held on to my facade, pretending they didn't scare me. I got through them, and was in a place where I had never been. It seemed like a combination house/bazaar, and I had a handful of pretty rocks. (I am a rockhound IRL.) I dropped one, and when I picked it up, it was some little bell sort of thing. I couldn't find my rock, and the woman who owned the things said, "Don't take my things." I told her I wasn't, that I was just getting my rock back, but ended up keeping the bell in lieu of the rock I couldn't find among her mess of things.
Next thing I know, I'm at the young woman's house. We are going through these really odd rooms, doing this and that, when someone says something about a baby. Her bf comes out with a wrapped up infant, and I pull the blanket away to look. I recognize the baby, and they tell me "That's Naya." I said, "Hello, Maya." That disturbed them, and sent them into a sort of frenzy. They hadn't wanted me to see the baby at all, and I'd called her by the "wrong" name. They were coming after me for real, now, because I'd decided I wanted out, and to be back where I belonged. A bit more confusing stuff happened, then my dog woke me up.
I can see so clearly that this was about my life. The animals I loved were taken from me by someone who thought I didn't deserve them - XN. I held that man down, mostly because he'd hurt and scared me, and I needed to fight back - surrogate XN and stepdad. Leaving for the bathroom was like when I left home and did all kinds of wrong things and ended up losing my way. I came into lives I shouldn't have, but learned some things. The woman took me through that baby's room to show me I'd given up my family for this charming, lying thief. The baby they had was the woman's baby. Me. (Maya happens to be my granddaughter's name.) My mom gave me lots of bad advice, out of her warped sense of fairness. The woman's husband represented my stepdad, who is a large part of the reason I'm screwed up enough to think the level of abuse I put up with all these years was acceptable: it was less than I grew up with. Telling me those people shouldn't go to jail was a representation of those who told me to stay with XN, that I would go to hell for divorcing him, etc. Why my XN was a woman in the dream is a puzzle I have to work out. I think the whole electrical shock thing was just representing the things XN did, like the affair(s) and things that pushed me further into depression and dependence. I was thinking I liked life, but knew I was being menaced, given things that I was grateful for, but too confused by the goings-on to realize they were nothing and not what I needed. I don't quite know what the darn bell was about, so I have to puzzle that one for a while. Maybe it's just what I settled for, rather than getting back what was mine and what I really wanted and needed.
It was a really interesting dream, now that I'm awake and looking at it. I walked around on my porch, smoking and talking to myself about what the different elements meant, and this is what I came up with. Man, if I just hadn't been so confused and misled all those years, I wouldn't have lost my family, my favorite things, and myself. It's just not worth the cost to fall for the NPD game.
It is sad, but I have much more in a lot of ways. I may not put someone down and stick my knee on their head to hold 'em, (though I can think of several I'd love to!) but I won't put up with having my life stolen from me ever again. That alone is enough.
[This message edited by SoHurt at 11:45 AM, July 20th (Saturday)]
Maybe your exN was a woman in the dream to show you that he really isn't what he thought he was?
He calls himself a christian LOL Deary ME!!!
[This message edited by HURTAGAIN1981 at 10:29 AM, July 20th (Saturday)]
For Edith and others in their "waking up" phase, I want to offer just a snippet of advice.
Find a counselor who has experience with co-dependency and PTSD. You're going to go through a series of changes and you need that IC with you every step of the way. As you break free from what's bound you and warped you all these years, you'll sometimes have odd reactions to things. You will even over-react to things. Whether it's that you are finally allowed to cook using salt and therefore buy 8 different kinds or what job you are finally allowed to take/decide on your yourself, you can sometimes make very bad decisions which end up getting you stuck in new ways you're not prepared for.
Think of the breaking-away/waking up period as post-surgical. You wouldn't dream of having invasive surgery and then forgoing follow-up care and physical therapy. You need the advice and oversight from a professional who can help you from re-injuring yourself.
Again, the sad voice of experience here. We've seen it a few times on SI, where someone finally breaks from an NPD and then goes on to the New Beginnings forum (which isn't just about dating, by the way) and falls apart because of bad decisions.
Get the help, keep the help, rely on it for a while. You're strong, very strong -- but so very fragile at the same time.
[This message edited by Threnody at 10:38 AM, July 20th (Saturday)]
You're the bell.
That part of you that you lost, and maybe didn't even recognize after all that, but the thing you reclaimed.
I agree, jj. As I worked on this part, I came to see that it was me, my core, inner self. And I don't recognize her at all. I lost so much of myself in those years, that who I am now is really quite different than I thought. I'm not a weak, timid mouse cowering beneath the eagle. I am The Eagle, and he is the mouse. I was always The Eagle, but I lost my way.
You ringin thing!
You always say such nice things.
Hurt, I came to a similar conclusion. He isn't who I thought he was, and he's not who he wants to think he is. He mirrors me, therefore he would be a woman in the dream. The woman who led me astray, controlled and confused me. It makes perfect sense, now.
Incidentally, mine claims to be a Christian, too. In fact, this person who refused to ever wear a necklace bought, for the trial, a huge gold Ice T/Jayzee/gangsta cross to wear! Like he was saying, "I'm a Christian! I cannot commit a crime! Is my cross big enough for you to see? Can you SEE?" I nearly started laughing when I saw that!
I recognize the baby, and they tell me "That's Naya." I said, "Hello, Maya." That disturbed them, and sent them into a sort of frenzy. They hadn't wanted me to see the baby at all, and I'd called her by the "wrong" name. They were coming after me for real, now, because I'd decided I wanted out
This part is him hiding me from myself, burying who I am and my finally realizing I wasn't going to stay with him. Feeling menaced because I know he's angry that "I" did this to him. Calling the baby by the wrong name and his getting angry is about all the times I ever tried to stand up and be me, or protect the kids or do the right things. Really, this is a fascinating dream!
Thren, I agree with you completely! IC is SO important when you get out of the N's world. I could easily have made some seriously bad choices if I'd just continued being who I was used to being... but now that I'm finding out who I am, what I want and need... I'm not going to make those choices. IC is the single best thing you can do for yourself after leaving a Narc!
I need clarity.
This is so hard combined with all of the pain of the last10 months. No, the last 10 years.
I have a great Ic, but he is our MC also. I think maybe that is a good thing for clarity but maybe not for me getting the definitive answers that would help me to feel sure.
I have been on this thread before but decided that I was over reacting being too critical.
Now I just have to know. I am afraid.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.