Ok, Tribe. I filed for D recently and NPD SA WH is willing to do anything to save our M. I wanted to put his letter that he wrote me and our conversation after I read his letter through the "NPD speak" meter to see what you thought:
I was shocked to get (n&n's L)'s call yesterday. I have gone from numb to profoundly sad and devastated by this turn of events.
The other night when I could not find you, I was beginning to panic and ready to call the police. It made me realize that I still love you and care deeply about you.
You have obviously taken a bigstep, a huge step and i know it must have been very difficult. I would be remiss if I did not say that I am still willing to work on repairing our M and keeping our family together. The thought of our precious children being the product of D is just unbearable to me.
I fully understand that I have no credibility left when it comes to promising to do things that you have asked me to do. I ask that, if there is any shred of doubt in your mind, please give me one last chance. I will begin on Monday, give me until the end of the summer or such other time as you see appropriate. I will do absolutely anything to save our M and our family.
Here is our convo:
n: I read your letter and I am happy to talk and listen to whatever you have to say.
WH: ok, well, I think I said what I wanted to say in the letter - is there any, I mean, when you file for D, it sounds like it's final, so I don't know if there's any room there to consider anything - or if you've made up your mind and you just want to get on with it.
n: I didn't do it (file for D) lightly...
WH: no, honey, I understand, nobody does that lightly. I know that. So, I just thought - if there's any chance - of anything.... I'd be remiss not to explore it, so. Before I was thinking, that's what you did, that's what you want to do and I'll just go along, but, you know - if there's any space there to try to reconcile, I want to explore it, that's all.
n: there's been space for a year and you've done nothing.
WH: yeah, I understand that.
n: so, why would it change now?
WH: I guess I realized what the stakes are.
n: and you didn't realize before:
WH: I guess I did and I didn't. I don't know. I never thought it would get to this point.
WH: I don't know. What kind of took me was that lately, it seems like we've been getting along a lot better and it seemed to be - I don't know - it's been better the last month or two than it has been.
n: I've been checked out of this M for a while and I think it's just so sad that you don't even realize it - that's how "un-in-tune" with me that you are. That's pretty sad to me.
WH: well, I know you've been checked out, I know that.
n: so how can you say things are better?
WH: We seemed to communicate better, we seemed to get along better - I don't know. Maybe it's bc you were checked out, so you didn't really care, it didn't really matter.
So is there anything I can do at this point?
n: (I read the portion of his letter to him where he said he would do anything). So, what are you thinking? What are you thinking you need to do?
WH: I don't know if you want me to go to counseling, if you want me to get my STD test, I mean.... things you've brought up in the past.
n: so, the reason while I filed is because you've told me that you've been a good husband, you don't think there's anything you need to change about yourself, you're not going to spend all your time in therapy and if it gets to be too much, you're gonna be done. But, I'm not happy. So, that doesn't work for me.
n: so you've told me all those things. So, I'm like, ok - and we never discuss our M - we just kind of sweep it under the rug, and I'm not okay with being nice to each other and hoping that everything's going to work out, that's not going to work for me.
n: so that's why I filed, because it's irreconcilable. I mean, you've said you're not a sex addict, and do you still feel that way?
WH: um, yeah, I guess I do, I don't really feel that I am. But I'm willing to go to therapy.
n: go to therapy, how? What do you mean by that?
WH: if you want me to see a sex addict therapist, I'll see a sex addict therapist. I don't really like (the CSAT we've seen), but I'll see the (guy in other town) - maybe it'll click better with him.
peridot - I agree with you; why is he waiting until Monday? And, he will start when I say he's going to start, not on Monday.
More of our convo:
n: hmmm. It just doesn't seem like...Like, this is the best you've got? For saving our M?
WH: I don't feel that I am (a sex addict), but if you feel that I am, then I'll go and do the work.
n: and what does that mean to you?
WH: I don't know, whatever they say it means. I have no idea what it means. Go to therapy, whatever they want me to do, I'll do.
n: You lie a lot. You lie constantly and I don't even think you realize that you lie. I can't even have a relationship with someone who lies to me. So, I just can't do this. I've been honest, faithful and I deserve someone who is the same. I can't even have a friendship with someone who lies, much less a M and a family.
(lengthy convo about a small lie he told, he denies it)
n: I don't want to argue about this (above) anymore; I'm to a point - this is not working for me. And your effort seems very lackluster to me.
WH: Honey, it's not lackluster. I'm telling you, I will do the things you want me to do - and I will do it with energy, I'll do it with conviction, I will do it.
n: (big sigh.....) And when I see your lips moving, I just see "blah, blah, blah" bc you've said you're gonna do things - you've done JACK SHIT is what you've done.
WH: I know...
n: JACK SHIT
WH: I know, that's why I say I have no credibility...
n: ZERO CREDIBILITY. I trust a stranger more than I trust you and you're my husband. and that's not the kind of M I want to have.
WH: I understand. I understand. I'm not going to fight anything, I'll do what you want me to do with a smile on my face and an open mind and with the hope of finding answers and making myself a better person and making this a better M. I know my affect is kind of flat - I'm exhausted. I'm sorry about that. I'll do it without complaint and without delay. I will go into with a complete open mind and a complete desire to find the answers and make myself a better person. I mean, I know I'm better than this; I know I'm better than what I've done. And once and for all, I just want to make it right. And maybe it won't work - maybe it won't be good enough for you, I don't know....
n: I don't like that talk.
n: Don't put it on me - it's not going to be "good enough" for me.
WH: no, I'm just saying, maybe at the end of the day, you're still not happy.
n: If you're a healed person and a whole person and you're not lying to me, of course that would be fine.
WH: you can give it a certain amount of time...
n: I've given you a year - where the FUCK were you for the past year?
WH: I don't have a good answer for that, I'm sorry.
n: I'm done - I've processed through everything - I'm ready...
WH: I know you are.
n: So this is what it takes? Why can't you do this when it was salvagable? Just fucking run and hide and fight.
WH: yeah. I can't dispute any of that.
n: I've been in pain for a year and a half -
WH: I know you have.
n: a FUCKING year and a half.
WH: I really am so sorry, hon. Now I understand what you've been going through and I just feel awful, terrible.
n: How do you know what I've been going through?
WH: Because I know what I've been going through for the past 24 hours and if it's anything like that, then it's horrible. Maybe that's part of it too, now that I realize how you were feeling - it's awful.
WH: I just know that if I work at it, that I can make you happy again.
n: It's not up to you to make me happy - you have to be happy with yourself. (pained look on WH's face)
n: It's not your job to make me happy. I'm doing great.
n: And I want you to be happy and I've been checked out of our M, so I'm just like why are we even M? I'm not even in this M - you don't deserve that. You deserve someone who loves you and is into you. But, with everything you've done to me, I can't do that anymore.
WH: You don't think you could EVER do that anymore?
n: I don't know. I told you you were killing my love for you - you've just destroyed it. And (CSAT) even told you, is it worth getting a D over? I guess you thought it was just a game and we could just keep sticking our heads in the sand. My eyes have been opened and I just can't tolerate it anymore. I just can't go on with the type of M we have - it's no way to live. I feel like my soul is dying.
WH: which parts?
n: all of it. The STD testing was 6 months ago and you said it would be no problem. Our M is so not a priority for you - it's on the bottom of the list - actually, I don't even think it's on the list.
WH: you know, I'll tell you the whole thing with the STDs is - I just felt like I'm always guilty until proven innocent type of thing.... And I will go and get the STD test - I'm going to get it either way because it will - I don't have an STD. The only way I could have an STD is from you bc you are the only person I've had sex with in the last 20 years.
n: you can have oral sex, there's all kinds of ways you can have sex.
WH: I haven't had oral sex; I haven't had any sex with anybody of any type except for you in 20 years. So I have a clear conscience on that.
n: Then why didn't you run out and get it? That's the problem - blah, blah, blah - your lips move but nothing happens - it's just bullshit. So if you're so unworried about it - if the shoe were on the other foot, I would say, "yes, absolutely - I'll go get it done tomorrow - here's the results. Does that make you feel better?" Do you care about making me feel better? And then no sex for 6 months?
WH: I've wanted to have sex.
n: but then you don't get STD tested - do you think I want to touch you?! And so you're ok with that?
WH: no, I 'm not ok with it.
n: and then we don't talk about anything, we just pretend... I mean, I'm just so tired of it, just so tired. We have no relationship, we have no M.
WH: No, I agree.
WH: I agree.
n: so why are you ok with that? I'm not ok with that, so that's why I've filed for D. This is not how I want to go through life. I'm 40, I do not want to go through any more of my life like this - this sucks.
WH: I agree, it does.
n: but you would go along for another 20 years like this - that's what I don't get. Why are you ok with this?
WH: I guess I'm not ok with it, but - I can't really articulate it. I've misunderstood you - I've misunderstood the depth of your feelings and frustration.
n: Well, I just shut down, bc there was no sense in talking to you; it didn't make any difference.
WH: Look, I want to have a relationship with you. I want to try to reset the table. We've known each other for 20 years. Even though you've been shut down, it's still the bright spot in my life, as hard as it may be for you to believe. I enjoy having you in my life and I want to have you back in my life in a completely full way. Like I said, I know I have no credibility, but I'll start tomorrow, I'll start Monday, it'll be my top priority to put this M back on track for you, for our children, for myself. I want to have a happy M, I want to be a happy family - I want them to have that - they deserve it.
n: I've told you this before and I'll tell you again - I'll watch your actions. I've been watching your actions for the past year and that's what's caused me to file for D. So your actions have been pretty shitty. So, I'm curious to see - I don't have much faith. That's all I can do. Your track record's not been very good.
WH: I know it's not - I carry that weight.
n: It's ok, you can turn it around, but I'm not believing that anything's going to change. But, I'd be happy for you bc you need to do it for yourself - even if we don't end up together.
WH: so what does all that mean, does that mean you're willing to give me some time?
n: I don't know, I think I'm just going to watch and see what you do.
WH: So, I've got to hire a L on Monday. So do we do this on parallel tracks, then? Continue with the D proceeding?
WH: So, um, with that being the case, just some logistics:
-um, have you told anybody yet, that you've filed? Have you told any family or anybody?
WH: Do you plan on telling anybody?
WH: I just want to know bc I want to know if you're going to tell anyone, if I should tell anyone, you know. If you're going to tell your parents then I can tell my parents; if you're going to tell friends - and just - and how you want to handle it. I would just like to know. If we're telling people that we're getting D'd, that we each know who knows - it makes it less awkward when you see people in public. I mean, I don't plan on broadcasting it to a bunch of people, frankly.
n: I don't know
WH: Ok, and then I assume you're not going on our vacation then?
n: i don't know
WH: ok. I didn't know if you had any desire to do any of that if we're in the middle of a D, so.
n: why is that a question that you would ask; why is that important to you?
WH: well, it's just a logistics issue; if you're not going, are the kids going, am I just going with the kids? Are you going to let the kids go?
n: that's so far away.
WH: it's 5 weeks away
n: why does it matter?
WH: planning purposes
and, if you weren't going on vacation, we could cancel the house and get some money back. I mean, I'm happy, I want the kids to go and I want you to go too, so, that's not a problem on my end.