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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 11
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, April 13th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well, shoot .... I had the cousin part wrong. There are other "c" words that sooooo work!!!


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 7:38 PM, April 13th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well, shoot .... I had the cousin part wrong. There are other "c" words that sooooo work!!!

My thoughts exactly.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:50 AM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The stories about NC are good. Empowering to those still caught up in the web.
You can do this!
Took me awhile too Kajem, I moved all her stuff away asap as I didn't want her taint near me - call it survival instinct, as it was pre-SI, pre-Tribe, before knowing just what I was dealing with.
Heck, I even used *sorry you feel that way* - even before Dday - but all it would earn me was more screaming abuse.

Nothing works because nothing's there.

Think about it. If you spent all your energy skittering back and forth between hate and love, black and white, denial and seeming - interspersed with bouts of hypersexuality for self- medication...what is left?
Nothing. Confusion. No center what.so.ever.

It's natural to wonder why they do the things they do, but man o man, when you get to the place of laughing at their machinations - that's a good place!

And:

watching him go to extremes to block me out, avoid me, and so on

I consider that good fortune!


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
SoHurt
♀ Member
Member # 1210
Default  Posted: 10:38 AM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

There are other "c" words that sooooo work!!!

That was the last half of HER name, CG, (Bit@hCun#) so it was taken. I don't like to recycle names. Cousin fit sooo much better in this case.

jj, I agree with total NC. I have had none but what was/is forced: PO breaks, court, visitation in the beginning... But since DS stopped visitation, it's been nearly total and complete, and it feels so good. My thinking isn't muddy all the time, I have some energy to do things. But most of all, when the doubts come, I have the breathing room to really think through them and see that he's an NPD and I'm not crazy. And it keeps me from poking the bear to make sense of his crazy. Those are all really good reasons for me to continue the NC.

It seems like it'll never end, and it feels like you've truly lost something - there are lots of ways we feel bad about NC. But I promise, from the bottom of my heart, it's worth it to keep those crazymaking vultures from circling in your brain. If there's no food, those vultures go away. Don't give in, as hard as it might be. Use the suggestions others are giving, and stay NC. It is so worth it! Especially when you're trying to divorce these people and they are always making you nuts.

(((((Tribe))))) Hang in there and keep posting. I did a lot of that in the beginning, and it really helped to hear others' opinions and experience. Keep walking through your hell. There IS an end to it.


"My feet are finally beginning to heal after 25 years of walking on eggshells."
"I walk barefoot all the time, now!"
~Me, SoHurt, in HIS NPD TAIL HURTS CUZ I KICKED IT~

DIVORCED!! =D


Posts: 463 | Registered: Mar 2003 | From: I am "Somewhere else." Next destination?
irrelevancy
♀ New Member
Member # 33579
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

His bad mouthing and scapegoating of you is par for the course, and as you are now learning, many do not have a good opinion of him and his iterations will be transparent for the malevolent untruths they are. And yet, of course, they (NPD) can be very convincing also and so some will believe him. I've had to let go of that fear in my situation and trust that those that matter will not.

Sooooo true! Ex has worked incredibly hard to prove that he is the victim. More than anything else, that is the goal of his actions. Everything else that is aimed at proving how terrible I am (bad parent, bad wife etc) is part of that... how dare I leave someone who is as amazing as he is while I am as messed up as I am....

I've described him as a glass shell instead of as a person. That shell has cracks in it (as all of us have faults... but since he wants to portray that he is better than he is, he has to pretend that those cracks aren't there.) Whenever he realizes there is a crack, he has to prove that I (or whomever is appropriate) am far worse than he is so that he can go, "See? I'm so much better! I must not have a problem!) Even if he has to make up a reason to be better, or he has to create a reason to destroy the other person, he literally HAS TO DO THIS because if he doesn't that single, crack will completely shatter his image of himself. Never mind that it truly is an image - a facade. Perceptions is reality to him. So if others perceive a crack, it's terrible. If he can hide the crack(s) by bringing others down, then the image of himself remains uncracked/untarnished.

It goes back to the biblical idea of taking the plank out of your own eye before removing dust from someone else's. He notices the plank and has to make dust seem like a forest so that he can now ignore the plank.


The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love (or at the very least, respect) their mother....

That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.


Posts: 49 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: healing land
GreatRoleModel
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Member # 36809
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been thinking and I think this is the place to post this question/commentary. As I am about to go forward with mediation this week and getting child visitation worked out, I am just tired of hearing how "It's good he wants to see the girls", "They need their father", or "It's best to co-parent" (prefer parallel parenting).
I know it's good that he wants to see the kids and be a presence in their lives but man it's hard to suck it up and take the high road when now he wants to be the dad he should have been the past 15 years.
However, people just don't understand what dealing with an NPD is like. If I give an inch he takes a mile. Also the self righteousness with his input now and how self serving it is drives me crazy. Everyone else sees the put together "concerned" parent. I want to protect my girls from his idea of what is meaningful in life and the pressure to fill his supply. My 13 yo gets it and really does not like to have prolonged visits with him. She struggles just to get thru the weekend. In a way she has already discovered NC is the best way to go.
I guess this turned into a commentary bc I don't think there is anyway to get others to understand unless they have walked the walk. If any of you have let me know. Thanks for listening.


BS (me)
XWS (him) NPD
DIVORCED!!!
It takes a village to deal with the village idiot!

Posts: 238 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: NC
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, tribe, I'm calling all you NPD mental health experts here.

One thing that has kept me in this cycle is an uncertainty of whether MrWNW is truly NPD. DS's father is, and there are some differences. However, I realize there are different types of NPD.

MrWNW has severe post-war PTSD and Avoidant PD. Those are the only official Dx by a professional. The AvPD came recently when he entered into IC. However, there are many times (especially when he's dealing with something tragic such as when he returned from war or when we first split) that he will be ultra-social, life of the town, anything really to distract from dealing with the painful emotions. So I'm uncertain really how AvPD truly fits in. I do see it much of the time, but certainly there are many times when it just simply would not fit.

DS's NPD father is COMPLETELY incapable of any normal human response. He is in no way capable of identifying with his own feelings or having empathy with others. The only way I can describe him is like a spoiled 3yr old that truly truly believes he rules the universe, the universe revolves around him, and that's all there is to it.

MrWNW has deep bouts of depression when dealing with feelings, and he certainly made extraordinary efforts during our R, such as full disclosure, which shocked the hell out of me. That followed a 2yr period of serial cheating.

I'm just so fricking confused. If he's NPD, I know from the experience with DS's father, it's 100% totally fucking hopeless. Yet, I keep questioning myself. How can I be sure without a Dx? I've read all the books. Things fit, but as they say, each of us have a little narcissism, and while his is greater than a healthy normal narcissism, if it's actually only symptoms of a manageable illness through his IC, then it isn't AS hopeless.

God, I hate trying to find the balance between reality and co-dependency and loyalty and life.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
Kalliopeia
♀ Member
Member # 35053
Default  Posted: 2:36 PM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Melanie Tonya Evans has archived radio shows on narcissim.

You may gain some clarity by listening to them.

Here is a direct link:

http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/media.htm


My ex is being awol because he knows I have massive abandonment issues. HUGE ones. Also issues surrounding anxiety and panic. All of those things really ramped up by him in our relationship.

I have very little fear of other things, beyond healthy caution. So he uses the silent treatment to punish me and mocks and abuses me when I get upset, calling me mentally ill, take your meds

HIS public image is very important to him. His antics have been getting frowned on by people we know, so this extreme avoidance and bad mouthing me is an attempt to pass me off as psycho and him as innocent.

I was listening to Melanie, apparantly this is a really common tactic of NPD, to basically abuse thier victim until they try and fight back, then "expose" their victim as the abuser.

Anyway, it's helping me a lot to understand the dynamics. I saw them in action before, but I couldn't believe he was really doing that. Now it is crystal clear.

I feel less to blame on one level, and on another I feel really grieved.. angry.

I guess sometime along the way, he will realize I am gone for real. I am. I am deeply sad over it, and am trying to completely accept that he is, as windows put it, a lost cause. I keep bargaining in my brain, what if it's something else, what if..

Then I remember he cheated, lies constantly, steals from me, got his ex pregnant and then hid the child from me, threatened me for not trusting him ( wtf) and let me down in hundreds of different ways.

The only contact I am tempted to make with him is my foot to his rump.


Posts: 478 | Registered: Mar 2012
Kajem
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Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 3:41 PM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So hurt, I was using the other 'C' word. LOL.. and I could not for the life of me figure out S.O.S. sack of shit works very well.

jjct- I did things to protect me, not realizing that I was dealing with NPD. I did not find out XH was NPD until over a year POST divorce. The divorce was easy... it was dealing with him after that was hell on earth. I was thinking he was in Mid life crisis.. and was on that forum. A member there PM'd me after following a few of my threads regarding his(and hers) abnormal behaviors... and suggested I look into NPD behaviors.. and would I like to visit her new website- I've been on Web of Narcissism ever since it's start up.

GreatRoleModel- welcome to the 'Tribe'. I also have girls, and my XH was a good dad to them - when they were little and adored him. When they started to grow up and have a life - he didn't want to be around them so much. His visitation weekends amounted to them picking out movies to watch with him. They were not allowed to make friends with the other kids in his neighborhood.. or do anything the month he had them at his place. He wanted Their time to be exclusively his - well until he wanted to do something else. Then they had to stay home and wait for him to come home. It is good he wants to see the girls.... how else are they going to learn about NPD and how to deal with it. - Don't be surprised if she has nothing to do with him after she turns 18... I have watched my girls push him to the periphery of their lives as they become more and more responsible for themselves, and entrenched in their own lives. Their focus is not revolving around him and he has done all sorts of manipulations to change that focus.. so they just cut him out. My eldest 3 have all asked me (after taking abnormal psychology in college) if I thought XH and NW were narcs? I told them I think so, but I am not qualified to make a diagnosis. if your professor is qualified, why not ask them about it. Eldest did that... he is N.

WNW - your description of the ups and downs and the social butterfly, all were screaming manic depression to me. The highs are very high, the lows very low.

NPD is a sliding scale.. my X does not exhibit many traits of NPD. He is what I consider a covert N... everything he does has an agenda to make him or keep him in control. EVERYTHING. He has no empathy for anyone. IF you eff up, he will let you know. If him letting you know will cause him to be embarrassed, he will let you know in private. If your mistake is not going to reflect on him, he will do it in public. NO matter how he does it... you will feel so crappy that you can play handball off the side of a dime. And he will NOT feel anything for causing you pain. Because he has no empathy. He can mimmick empathy when it's convenient to him... but feel it.. nope it isn't there.

Kallie..

you're sounding stronger today... and your foot up his rump... he might bite after all his head is already there.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4031 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 4:28 PM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Kajem.

Yeah, DS's asshat father is just a completely malignant narcissist. He's far from covert. He's in total need of control. Total POS. He'll even try to control the judge in the courtroom! He's one of those ones whose attorney has to smack his leg from time to time to shut him up and then speak for him, yet he can't even control his facial expressions to suppress his pure rage as this lowly human judge being in charge. Can't keep a job for longer than 6mos, always has issues with the boss. MAJOR authority issues. Yet, volunteers as a firefighter, hangs around with state troopers, sheriffs, bailiffs, others of authority, just to puff his chest more that he's powerful. Attends church twice a week as a show. ...because then you know, he can do all his high and mighty things because God is on his side too! OMG, I want to puke if I even think of him, after all these years. Even though we have a child together, communication is to a MINIMUM. ONLY through text or court. The POS actually thinks he's invincible.

[This message edited by windowsnotwalls at 7:47 PM, April 14th (Sunday)]


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
Kalliopeia
♀ Member
Member # 35053
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kajem, I could kick him in the ass and kick him in the teeth at the same time.


[This message edited by Kalliopeia at 4:50 PM, April 14th (Sunday)]


Posts: 478 | Registered: Mar 2012
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:07 PM, April 14th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kallie...

WNW - did you marry my XH?

Volunteer firefighter, emt, paramedic, works for the state health department as emergency response coordinator. Does disaster medical assistance team...(think mobile hospitals in disaster areas) as a triage coordinator. He gets to choose who gets treatment and who doesn't for DMAT. So he IS GOD. I know exactly the man you are talking about. only mine is covert... because how can he be such a mean guy when he does all these wonderful selfless things for humanity. Easy.. it doesn't cost him an ounce of HIS humanity... because there isn't any.

Before I knew about NPD when people asked me why we divorced, I told them we had a difference of religious opinion, he thought he was God. I disagreed.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4031 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 12:34 AM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am just tired of hearing how "It's good he wants to see the girls", "They need their father", or "It's best to co-parent" (prefer parallel parenting).

GRM, I was talking about this very thing with another Tribe member a couple days ago. This is really frustrating for us since, as you said, people who haven't walked in our shoes do not get it. at all.

I've been admonished by counselors and the judge for not being a cooperative co-parent. I was in the court seeking a restraining order based on harassing phone calls. When I explained that the NPD had called my phone 23 times that morning. The judge said, "why don't you just answer his calls?" Ummmm...yeah. That's the real issue. That I am not answering his calls. He then scolded me and told me how I needed to cooperate with Assclown "for the children's sakes". Pissed me off in a major way. That judge had no clue what I was dealing with.

Just try to keep doing what you know in your heart is in the best interest of your kids. If family or friends say those things, just make a slight smile and nod in some sort of agreement.

Parallel parenting. Yep. That's all you can do with an N as a co-parent. In fact someone here has termed it "Re-parenting". I think that is a perfect way to put it.


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, I did find another site that deals with AvPD. It is clear that some of my Abandonment PTSD responses greatly trigger MrWNW's AvPD and vice versa. The NPD traits I have seen are indeed symptoms of the AvPD being triggered. His IC should be able to help with that.

So, we are discussing reconciliation again. I've posted a thread in Reconciliation on a very extensive boundaries list. I'd love for my fellow tribe members to check it out and give me your thoughts.

I've been away from XN (DS's father since Oct. 2008) and I still have TONS of residual unhealthy relationship responses from that horrid relationship. I know others here can relate, and that's why I'd love your input.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=493270


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
CharlieFoxtrot
♀ Member
Member # 38010
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Holy NPD, I think we just found the new caulk.

Military hero, check.
Emergency medicine, check.
Critical triage, check.
Son of a pastor, check.
(quoted bible verses constantly)
Thought he was god, check.

I told them we had a difference of religious opinion, he thought he was God. I disagreed.

I said that same thing, almost verbatim.


Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Jan 2013
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Raising kids with and NPD parent IS Re-Parenting. How can the NPD teach unconditional love, they certainly don't give it. They use it as a business tool to bargain with. "If you loved me, you would _____." If I had a nickel for each time he either said it or bargained with a kid using their love to manipulate them I would be richer than Bill Gates!

As the Non NPD parent, I have to consciously teach my kids that LOVE does NOT work this way... in word and DEED. Not to mention any other thing the NPD decides to teach them.... I have to reteach them what it means to be normal.. consciously normal. I don't know if I am setting up my kids to be a more covert N than he or just a normal human being.

God I hope my kids choose the normal human being route....

I pray ALOT.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4031 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 5:37 PM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As the Non NPD parent, I have to consciously teach my kids that LOVE does NOT work this way... in word and DEED. Not to mention any other thing the NPD decides to teach them.... I have to reteach them what it means to be normal.. consciously normal. I don't know if I am setting up my kids to be a more covert N than he or just a normal human being.

I completely understand....it's exactly the same here. I recently told another member, I feel like I'm battling the devil at times for DS's soul.

Military hero, check.
Emergency medicine, check.
Critical triage, check.
Son of a pastor, check.
(quoted bible verses constantly)
Thought he was god, check.

Firefighter, check.
Emergency medicine, check.
Grandson of a pastor, check.
(quoted bible verses constantly)
Thought he was god, check.

Creepy. Maybe they're all alien drones or something! Explains the inhumane behaviors!


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 8:10 PM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

wnw - if I had to make a list of boundaries and consequences (like the one you did in R), I wouldn't want to even be in a relationship with that person.

I get it that you're confused. Crazy is confusing.

There's something about an authority diagnosing that is a requirement for some. As if their own guts and experience are not enough.

We're pretty much all auto didacts here. (iow, you don't need to be a doctor to know that you got 10 kinds of fucked up on your hands)

I will say that your list is bargaining.
So my best advice to you is sit back and wait for the nanosecond your boundaries/requirements are not met.

Woe is me, at one point in my life, my list included
1. Don't fuck other people
and
2. If you do, please be remorseful

so I'm kind of simple about stuff.


Posts: 6021 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:18 PM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Woe is me, at one point in my life, my list included
1. Don't fuck other people
and
2. If you do, please be remorseful

so I'm kind of simple about stuff

.

jjct, That was my list also.

What I got was a peacock who was proud of his accomplishment for better supply - XH (father of the year and winner of the Biggest Dick award)

and a confused MLCer who was sorry I was hurt and that he did it. - XSO

Neither one wanted to continue the relationship... so I get to deal with abandonment issues as well as NPD.

So much fun...


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4031 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 8:28 PM, April 15th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WnW, I went to your thread over in R. I have to say that I wish I thought it could be as easy as making a list of behaviors and rules.
wnw - if I had to make a list of boundaries and consequences (like the one you did in R), I wouldn't want to even be in a relationship with that person.
^^^^This too.^^^ I don't think I want a marriage where I might feel like I was not so much a wife but a warden. That's a lot of rules to be broken and enforced.

Plus, if you're dealing with a Personality Disordered one, there is no way he will adhere to this list for a moment longer than it takes to be back in your home, your bed and your brain. Was he able to adhere to even the most basic rule of "no fucking others"? I don't like this at all for you. Proceed with extreme caution.


[This message edited by woundedby2 at 9:13 PM, April 15th (Monday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7633 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
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