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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 11
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:18 PM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kajem is not kidding. Meeting fellow SI members is fantastic. I felt that we were kindred spirits, felt comfortable right away, and knew that these folks "get it". Being with other tribe members was really joyful too. You know, we only talked a little about the NPD problem and a lot about us. And we had fun.

I feel completely recharged.


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jan 2010
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have you kept records of emails, or any recorded conversations on VAR or anything like that?

I have 2000+ pages of really truly sick text messages dealing with the SA. He gave me the password to an email account I found because he had closed the account as I got closer and closer to it. But yahoo let me open it back up. He's now claiming I put a keylogger on his computer. Ironically enough, I did try to put a keylogger on his computer, but it was months earlier, and it was unsuccessful. ALSO, his email account history clearly supports my story.

This is the sort of thing I deal with every day.

Anyhow, I have a lot of proof that he is a danger to himself and everyone around him.

I have copies of our email exchanges, and some of them show the NPD, but usually he saves that for phonecalls. He's a lawyer and very aware of his image, as you might imagine.

No VAR.

I have to think that the evaluator will look at the 2000 pages of "stuff" plus his online fetish ads. Plus, he's been formally diagnosed as a SA. It's not like I'm making this part up.

Here's the problem - they won't restrict visitation based on the NPD - it's the SA I need to prove.

I'm just run down and exhausted. I have to make a decision by Thursday re: custody evaluation. I have a feeling that he will come off like a choir boy. He's obsessed with the children. The day I filed for sole custody was a huge game changer.

[This message edited by ChoosingHope at 10:32 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 1433 | Registered: Oct 2011
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 10:32 PM, March 19th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Now, back to NPD land....sigh.

I get home from the G2g and go to pick up my 15 year old daughter (scapegoat) from NPD's apartment. I can tell through the texts she is upset. Her 16th birthday was Monday too.

As I am driving down the street, I notice his live in GF standing up on the balcony deck, apparently watching for me. She has never done this. I have not met her, and know only what the kids have told me.

So, I have to do quick thinking. I pull through a parking lot and text my now sobbing kid and ask her to walk around the building into the parking lot to get in the car... that way they couldn't see or talk to her/us.

All I could think of was some kind of confrontation was going to happen that would further upset my daughter and/or humiliate her due to the blaming of her for ???

She was sobbing and felt completely left out and unloved because they did not make a fuss for her bday. NPD threw a giant party for older sister's 16th bday (golden child), but only gave this kid a card with some money. No cake or anything.

She cried for a long time, and sort of lashed out at me. Poor kid.

Later I get this text from NPD:

Just pick up your kids from my house. Don't make them walk to the corner.

then the next text...

Can you investigate and explain why she is so upset?

I think maybe you putting her in this awkward position might have something to do with it.

You can't make this stuff up, although it sure is predictable for this thread!

Needless to say, I made a huge fuss over her.

[This message edited by Chrysalis123 at 10:34 PM, March 19th (Tuesday)]


Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jan 2010
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 5:06 AM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes, I STILL have a 3 inch binder filled with his emails, her emails to me. etc.

Our youngest turned 18 last month. I will keep this binder for one reason...

MY X did not start showing his NPD until after the divorce. Well not in emails till then... As time went on, I was blamed for things I did not do...TO MY KIDS. Their therapist knew what was happening and gave me permission to prove the truth to my kids on an as needed basis. The proof is in that binder.

My X is working his magic on my youngest - she is now the golden child. Some of the things he does is downright manipulative ( surprise surprise) and she feels she needs to make up to him for all that he missed out on his other DD's. Etc. I want her to know what he has done in the past... but when she is ready and asks.

Till then, I'll keep it.

His mother has asked to see it.... I am not sure I want to share it with her. I kept it because it is tangible to memories my kids have during that time. MIL was not involved in the day to day divorce stuff going on....

Maybe I need to ask her Why she wants it?


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Kajem,
Is this NPD's mother? I sure as shootin' wouldn't show MIL anything! A conversation where you share stuff that you would also share with NPD, sure. But she's his mom and on his side... I can't see past the giant DANGER DANGER DANGER sign, but I'm fairly certain there's not a unicorn behind that.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 3:05 PM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell,

She isn't on his side. He devalued her and discarded her and FIL when they came to the aid of their unmarried, pregnant granddaughter (our DD) when X/NW cut off her cell phone 1 month before delivery. Not to mention all the drama and stress they caused DD thru out her pregnance, even when she was so stressed the gruesome twosome never let up on the kid. His parents decided that DD needed her family around her, loving her in her time of need and not the BS XH and NW were throwing at the family.

They made their choice, he has been an asshole to them ever since. They now understand what the kids and I and their own daughter have been put thru as a result of his actions. They are now seeking info on Narcissism. I am answering questions, but not giving them specifics.

They came to their own conclusion he is NPD... when she asked if I thought he was.. I answered that yes I did and I did a lot of research to understand it. I sent them links.

They are learning and hurt, they didn't raise their son to be this way. Their daughter isn't this way.

Funny, thing... the only one in his family who is on the outs is him.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, March 21st (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah... totally misread the DANGER sign. It actually says "Dang ER" and there's a rundown hospital behind it.

Still... I wouldn't give her my "evidence." It would probably help her more to come up with her own KWIM? It's more meaningful, somehow, to be able to look at your own interactions and say, "Ohhhhh... THAT'S what that was! Wow, I completely misread that!"

I could see NPD in Daffy's dad and his twin brother, but totally missed it in him until I could look back on all the times we would interact and I was left with a giant WTF-was-that? Post-NPD research, I could not only see what had happened in the past, but I could see it in the present.

How's that for a rambling nonsequitor?


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tribe, how do I cope when Dickhead's NPD irrationality & abusive cruelty gets turned on the children? There was an incidentIthis week of epic proportions which completely tore down my son. It was so bad I reported it to my attorney and took my son in for an emergency meeting with our family counselor (psychiatrist? psychologist? I get confused which he is). He's being referred to a specialist who focuses on boys and men.

Naturaly Dickhead blamed me entirely for the problem. Said I'm poisoning his relationship with the children, among other rantings & ravings. He's just plain not right in the head.

This is how we used to live on a daily basis. He used to yell & scream at us every single day. At least one of us would be torn down this way, although I have to say the incident this week will go in the Top Two ranking for what I know he's done to the kids.

I'm really super proud of my son & how he handled the situation. I'm backing him entirely because, from what I can tell, he did nothing wrong. Even if he did, he did not deserve the gutting STBX gave to him, nor does he deserve what will probably be a lifelong psychological injury. Dickhead was in rare form this week.

How do I protect my kids? Or am I doomed to forever picking them up after he tramples them?


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8786 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nell,

I plan on letting her find out on her own. I just direct her to sites that are more information based than support based. She needs the info IMHO.

Yes I agree, doing your own research and going WTF???? is probably the best way to see the NPD in hindsight.

I know when X got his injury, I know how he reacted, and it kept working for him so he kept doing it. It is all tied up with his mother.... BUT she did not cause his NPD... When he was a toddler she had to have emergency surgery on her knee. She was hospitalized for a week (maybe 10 days). When she came home, he wouldn't rush into her arm, or even hug her. She had a cane that she used to hook him and drag him to her for a hug. In her own words that surgery cost her her loving, cuddly boy, she never got him back. He wasn't mad, he was just removed...

And he has been using that guilt on her ever since... till he bowed to NW and vindictively put his DD and DGD in potential jeopardy.

Really, what parent cuts the phone service (without telling the kid) the last month of a stressful pregnancy?

They got it.... especially when NW went on a tare and TOLD X he was cutting her phone service, demanded that He NOT tell his DD. Then turned to IL's and demanded that they not tell DD either. It took them a few days of reelling and thinking to call DD. They knew exactly what they were risking... a relationship with their son.

They chose... and while I am grateful. I do not for one minute completely trust anyone regarding X. to much has happened over the last few years.

Hugs,

k


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, March 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NG,

I don't know if you do anything other than damage control and re- parenting.

Saying something to my X only brought more repercussions raining down on my kids. I stopped that quickly, once I realized what was happening.

Love your son, try to give him the tools he needs to deal with his father. And re-parent as much as DS will allow you.

It sucks, but there will be other N's in their lives... best they learn to deal in a healthy way early.

Hugs,

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
irrelevancy
♀ New Member
Member # 33579
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, March 23rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My child's psychologist talked with me last week and I thought this might be the best place to pose a question he raised. I have a NPD ex who is very classic from what I can tell. He does not like that I have cut contact with him for everything except the kids. He continually tries to reel me back in.

Latest thing took place at the appointment. When my child went in to the appointment, my ex asked me if I wanted to talk about the kids right then. I didn't. So instead of accepting that, he moved over to a chair nearer to me (the closest one on the wall where I was sitting) and "offered" me another chance to talk to him. When I didn't respond, he called his mother (and yes, I heard her side of the conversation too so I know it was her) and started to talk about how his crazy ex was sitting right next to him and refusing to talk and so the crazy was continuing. It was a 10 minute or so conversation about me and how crazy they both thought I was.

It hurt.

The psychologists comment was that I needed to learn to not let it hurt. I needed to be able to relate to him as though he was a mentally ill (which he is) patient who I didn't know who was saying things about me. And his point was well made, if a stranger sat down and did that, I wouldn't react with hurt. The dr wants me to develop complete apathy toward my ex so that when my ex says stupid and untrue things like that about me, I'm not moved even to hurt.

So.... any suggestions on how to do this? How to heal to the point that I no longer hurt when he does things like that?


The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love (or at the very least, respect) their mother....

That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.


Posts: 49 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: healing land
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:04 AM, March 23rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My therapist asked me how would I parent if he were dead?

Up till that point I had been expecting him to parent the girls, and he would either not do it or shove OW/NW down my throat and have me coparent with her.

I made a list of how I would handle things if he had died. Then one day... I had a funeral for him. I burned some pics and buried the ashes.

He is dead to me, the man I married no longer exists (if he ever did). I was in love with an illusion, a con man.

It helped jumpstart me toward apathy.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 9:53 PM, March 23rd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Choosing Hope, I hope Thursday went well. I do think the SA aspect is easier to prove with the evidence and the CSAT's testimony. Hopefully you have been given good guidance and a place to negotiate from?

Chrysalis, ugh, what a story! Poor DD... Good for you for protecting her with the pick up and for the "fuss" she deserved at her milestone. I hate how the favored child is damaged and how the "disfavored" child feels and the relationship damage it does between the siblings. I hope you did not respond to any of his texts. FTG.

Kajem, I applaud your caution and your openness with MIL. I think that MIL has to understand NPD from her own perspective and seeing yours (evidence) would not be all that helpful. As she comes to understand the way she felt and reacted to him and his attitudes and words and behaviors, she will have an understanding of your relationship that should be enough. I would be so protective of the evidence and cautious of the fact that somehow it could be damaged or misused if it were shared. Also, some things are so horrible that the defensive reaction to deny (especially from a mother!) the possibility of such evil might override reality.

NG, I like the advice to continue to re-parent and to get your kids the help and coping skills they need. You are navigating in the only possible way. I keep you in my heart and prayers! Keep believing you are doing what you can. Don't accept his blame or nonsense. Your example of rejecting his reality is the best model you can give the kids.

irrelevancy, I got to the point where I knew how crazy fucked up and broken he was-- that to be rejected BY that was affirmation. Who wants acceptance or praise from someone so dead inside? Being considered defective by him was a huge clue that I was doing it RIGHT. Also, someone here pointed out that the NPD often accuses us of their own worst flaws. So when he says you are crazy, that is his truth, not yours.

(((tribe)))

PS: beautiful pic, beautiful people! Bucket list desire to meet tribe members at a g2g...


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
irrelevancy
♀ New Member
Member # 33579
Default  Posted: 7:22 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Caregiver, that's a good point.... the more crazy he thinks I am, the more I'm doing right.

Kajem, it's not the parenting so much (I've learned to never count on him for anything) as the comments he continually makes about me in front of me and the children. None of us need to hear those comments! These comments weren't in front of the children (this time) but they were definitely aimed at me. I hate that he talks to people like that about me because I know that even former friends have believed him - he's so believable when he talks to other people!

Mostly because he's so charming to other people and so they affirm him as being Mr. Wonderful. I've seen through him and he hates that so he has to try to tear me down whenever possible.

I need to learn to ignore him - to treat him like a mentally ill stranger who has no meaning. I wish I could NC him and just avoid him completely.

Any ideas for good one liners that I can use when he asks me to talk to him and I really don't want to be drawn into a "conversation" (basically his attempts to prove to me his point or force me to agree to him on whatever it is he wants done at that point....)


The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love (or at the very least, respect) their mother....

That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.


Posts: 49 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: healing land
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, March 24th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

good one liners.... where is jj when you need him?

Some good ones suggested before have been to nod and agree, "uh, huh" like you are a simpleton. Or to say "I am sure you are right..." and walk away.

I avoid every possible situation that could lead to a conversation.

And any friends that have contact with him, I cut out after dday so to avoid that conflict you describe. I don't have to wonder what they think or care. I don't want any contact with someone who might have been influenced by his truth, especially not in the early days. Now it doesn't bother me so much.

You can't make sense out of nonsense. Rationalizing his behavior is a never ending chore.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5307 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
Chrysalis123
♀ Member
Member # 27148
Default  Posted: 8:45 PM, March 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

similar one liner....

OH



Donít get to the end of your life and find that you lived only the length of it; live the width of it as well.†

Posts: 2373 | Registered: Jan 2010
gma56
♀ Member
Member # 19595
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, March 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And another....

"I understand."

I said this so many times to FT when we did have contact.
Gma


BW-Divorced
It's my life now, my choices, my mistakes to make and my victories to celebrate. His choices made me free of liars and betrayers in my life. I lost my family but gained a second chance to be happy.

Posts: 20275 | Registered: May 2008 | From: Half way to where I want to be.
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 9:49 PM, March 25th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"I'll get back to you on that."

I need to check my schedule.

Your opinion of me is none of my business.

I am sorry you feel that way.

I need to discuss that with my attorney - this one XH HATES.

I will take it under advisement.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 3:48 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Noting all these - thanks all. Realising I need a bit of rehearsal.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, March 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Edie,

Practice makes a perfect delivery.

The opinion one I had posted to my bathroom mirror and read every morning. The look on XH's face when I delivered it to him - priceless. the word Gobsmacked comes to mind. It left him speechless.... It was sooo cool.


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4037 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
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