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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 11
luv2swim
♀ Member
Member # 13154
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do not visit SI so often anymore, but when I do, the NPD Thread is kind of a "homeplanet". All I gotta say is what is it about the caulk and organizing the pantry? My NPD ex must have had 30 tubes of partially or unopened (but very old) caulk in the garage. And doncha know, he made a big deal about organizing the pantry when I was gone, and making sure I recognized that it was now, perfectly organized. Of course, his pantry organizing made zero sense to me, but heh... he was master of the Universe, so who was I to argue.

It was kind of the same with the refrigerator: everything had to be in the right place. Once, when the ketchup was on the wrong shelf, and there was a tuperware in the far back that had (gasp) some mold on whatever the contents were, he thought it was best to wake our children early. Show and tell time, explaining how EVERYTHING needed to be kept in order, else disorder would take over the planet. Even things in the refrigerator.

Hang in there SI NPD experiencers. There is life beyond the crazy.

[This message edited by luv2swim at 5:14 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS
Him: NPD WS
Married 24 years
incredible kids
D day: 2006 ... he left to live with OW.
Divorced: 2009
WS + OW: Married 2011

Posts: 340 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: US
CharlieFoxtrot
♀ Member
Member # 38010
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hang in there SI NPD experiencers. There is life beyond the crazy.

Thank you!! I needed that today... I recently watched "Gaslight" the 1944 movie with Ingrid Bergman... new classic for me... I can see why the term got its name from that film!! I can still feel kind of crazy when he emails too much and tries to shine his "light of truth" on things. I remember the crazy look in his eyes. I remember the TT stories, blame shifting, and projection. I remember details and occasionally I will remember something new that I blocked out or ignored until I could process it better. I am on a slow path to health, and I know he is wanting to hold me back. He surrounds his poisonous venom with honey laced words. The trouble with maintaining NC at this point is he mixes it all in with business that I still need to address until the D is final. I'm trying journaling, educating, and counseling, I know I'm making progress, but somedays it just seems like an endless road that I didn't choose and the mindfuck will be a handicap for a long time.

Ugh. Don't know the point of the post, other than thank you for the encouragement of a life beyond this!


Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Posts: 505 | Registered: Jan 2013
luv2swim
♀ Member
Member # 13154
Default  Posted: 1:48 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

CFT
I recently discovered the writing of Irish therapist Christine Louis de Canonville or her website Narcissistic Behavior: The Roadshow for Therapists. As she describes it:
"This site is concerned with the effects of Narcissistic Behavior, and the effects of that behavior on victims."

In my experience, her writing is spot on, and very much helped me to understand (as much as possible) this thing we all seem to go through during the Category 5 Narcissist Typhoon.

Under Narcissistic Victim Sysndrome: What the heck is that? she writes,

Therapist need to be seriously aware that narcissism is a very complex disorder that creates a lot of suffering, both to the person who has the disorder, and to those people who have to live with the disordered narcissistic behavior on a daily basis. When I speak of narcissistic abuse, (abuse that can lead to Narcissistic Victim Syndrome), I am speaking about a form of abuse that is very insidious. What I mean by insidious is that the abuse is covert, cunning and often indirect. This form of abuse is often carried out in a subtly and clandestine manner, because narcissists go to great pains to avoid being observed publicly as being abusive. This Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde behaviour of the narcissist (loving one minute and totally enraged the next) can inflict great harm on the victim. Understandably, the fear, distress, confusion, inner turmoil, and chaos that they experience leaves them “walking on eggshells” in order to avoid further conflict with the narcissist. The effect on the victim over time can be very crippling indeed. I liken narcissism to a parasitic worm that manages to penetrate under the skin, where it is out of the sight of witnessing eyes, but is free to injure or consume its host slowly, leaving trauma or disease in its wake. By the way, the narcissist can manage to live on inside the victim even after they manage to escape; it is as if their “seed” goes on."

Very much worth reading, is her The Effects of Gaslighting in Narcissistic Victim Syndrome found here
http://narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome

In this she explains the movie Gaslight, and how this is the source of the term we now think of as a classic NPD trait. And, she details the phases most of us go through in response to years of gaslighting from our mates.

In my experience, the stealthy "worm" does wiggle it's way through most of us, leaving a few scars and extra sensative places. I do not know if we will ever be free of them, but understanding more clearly who they are, and the impact of their ways, can minimize the impact.

[This message edited by luv2swim at 1:59 PM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


Me: BS
Him: NPD WS
Married 24 years
incredible kids
D day: 2006 ... he left to live with OW.
Divorced: 2009
WS + OW: Married 2011

Posts: 340 | Registered: Jan 2007 | From: US
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Question  Posted: 4:33 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Are there books available for people who have escaped a relationship with a NPD and need to heal? I am a year past separation (yay me!), I have made great strides in reclaiming my identity & health, but I feel there would be value for me to have a book or two with suggested paths to explore for additional strength. I'm talking books that are specific for victims of NPD or other PD individuals.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8713 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 5:55 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/articles/narcissist-behaviours.htm

I was pointed this way by a SI member. There are 2 downloadable files, one how to maintain NC and one that describes a narcissist. It was the last push I needed.


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 6:21 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Melanie Tonia Evans is also on FB she has a page called Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Central.

There is a lot of information at WebofNarcissism.com.

Good luck.

k


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4000 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
OnTilt
♀ Member
Member # 34140
Default  Posted: 9:30 AM, February 15th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've grappled for a long time on whether or not I belonged in this forum. I've flip flopped several times about whether my H is NPD or not.

I could really use some help but my H is aware I visit this site, though not necessarily this thread, and I can't post publicly.

If anyone is willing to PM me and has the time to listen, I have so many questions.


BS(Me), WH(Him) in our 50's
Status: I'm giving up on him

Posts: 372 | Registered: Dec 2011
irrelevancy
♀ New Member
Member # 33579
Default  Posted: 7:47 PM, February 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just read both of those two topics and.... wow.... talk about describing me!

It's maddening too because it's so hard to get help for healing myself from this because so many people see him or meet him and are convinced that I'm exaggerating. Add in that I've tried so hard to put things behind me that it makes it hard to come up with specifics (and many of the specifics seem minor or little to me which is probably due in large part to the amount of time that I spent minimizing his behaviors or convincing myself that I was overreacting....) that I *STILL* feel like I'm overreacting.

I want to heal. I need to heal. I feel like there's no one out there to actually help me heal. I get lectures about how I"m supposed to make a show of getting along with him for the sake of my children, last week I was told that I need to communicate more in order to find out about things my children are doing. But when I do, I get accused, I get denials, I get told that I'm either making it up or that it's obviously a result of my poor parenting...

Honestly, the best thing I can do for both myself and my children is NC as much as possible in order to shield them from his outbursts toward me but then I know that I look obstinate and unwilling to work on things for the children's sake. It's a catch 22. For our mental health there must be NC yet so many mental health professionals insist that I should be more open to him. Is there that little general knowledge among mental health professionals about abuse and victims of NPD??????


The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love (or at the very least, respect) their mother....

That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.


Posts: 49 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: healing land
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 8:13 PM, February 16th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Irrelevancy,

Most mental health professionals have very little experience in dealing with a Narc. After all the Narc is either perfect or they are worried about being unmasked.

When my 4 kids were younger, (I only have one kid we need to discuss...and that is for 3 more months) I would only discuss things with the X via email or text. Something that I could get a hard copy to show my attorney.

No matter what he said (and after a while his NW also) I always answered like a judge would be reading it. I kept on subject, I didn't play games, I didn't call him names, threaten .. etc. I left that all to them.

He would twise everything I said to make him out to be the victim. His attorney actually sent me several articles on Parental Alienation Syndrome... and a cease and desist letter. My attorney fired back with a copy of the 3inch binder I was keeping ALL of Xh's emails in. He stopped sending me PAS articles. And thru the grapevine let it be known that he felt awful for believing HIS client.

If you have young children.. NC is not possible. but you can limit how you have contact and keep a record of all contact that way.

Hope it helps.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4000 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
irrelevancy
♀ New Member
Member # 33579
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, February 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I do keep things to email. That's what frustrates me so much. That is part of what insulates the children and I from his behavior and even then he is degrading, insulting, etc. Yet mental health professionals seem to think that I should "chat" about the kids with him in his presence. They do eventually figure it out but it sure is a long learning curve and they don't seem to figure out that this is something they should learn from and apply to other clients!


The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love (or at the very least, respect) their mother....

That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.


Posts: 49 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: healing land
irrelevancy
♀ New Member
Member # 33579
Default  Posted: 10:36 AM, February 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And yes, I've also been accused of parental alienation (in court documents) yet everyone (professional) who has looked into it doesn't see that so I'm good there.

What gets me about that is that if anyone is alienating, it's him!


The greatest gift a father can give his children is to love (or at the very least, respect) their mother....

That didn't happen.... we're divorced as a result.


Posts: 49 | Registered: Oct 2011 | From: healing land
Kajem
♀ Member
Member # 36134
Default  Posted: 12:32 PM, February 17th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What gets me about that is that if anyone is alienating, it's him!

And he may never 'get it' and that's ok. It's HIS relationship with the kids.. not yours.

It took me several years before I realized I CAN'T make him be a good parent. That I have NO control over him, the only control I have is damage control to my kids. I have to be the one to teach them what is normal and what isn't as far as the things he does. Some things are just not normal. They are the actions of someone with an agenda. And that agenda is manipulation.

NW used to pick up the kids on friday night for X. One time DD3 (then a 12yo) went into the glove compartment for something and found her gun. She was shocked and asked why NW brought her gun to kid pickup. The answer was that I threatened her so she brought it 'just in case'.

At that time the 'stand your ground law' was about to go into effect in a couple of months.

On the advise of my sheriff I asked for and recieved help from the sheriff where we exchanged kids. I had an undercover cop at each exchange. I also went thru a quick training on things I can do so that I would NOT appear to be a threat to NW from the point of view of the deputy watching the exchange.

That was when I stopped talking to them. I feared for my life.

If you can be civil... that's all you need to do.

Normal people will get over their anger eventually and then you can deal with chit chatting at a kid exchange. It doesn't work that way with NPD.. at least NOT IN MY SITUATION.

Do what you need to protect yourself and the kids.

K


I trust you is a better compliment than I love you, because you may not trust the person you love, but you can always love the person you trust. - Unknown
Relationships are like sharing a book, it doesn't work if you're not on the same page.

Posts: 4000 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: Florida
sparkysable
♀ Member
Member # 3703
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, February 18th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question for all:

How can you distinguish if someone is a Sociopath, or simply NPD?

All Sociopath's are narcissists, but not all narcissists are sociopaths.



D-day OW#1 2/2004; R for 6 years; D-day OW#2 5/2010
Marriages that start this way, stepping over the bodies of loved ones as the giddy couple walks down the aisle, are not likely to last.

Posts: 2793 | Registered: Mar 2004 | From: NY
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 1:06 AM, February 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Duplicate!

[This message edited by sadtoo at 1:43 AM, February 22nd (Friday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7925 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 1:43 AM, February 22nd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

All Sociopath's are narcissists, but not all narcissists are sociopaths.

Kind of like all cheaters are liars, but not all liars are cheaters.

How can you distinguish if someone is a Sociopath, or simply NPD?

You really can't as far as a diagnosis goes. And considering how slippery as these types tend to be, any real diagnosis is most difficult even for the professionals.

They have changed the criteria. It used to say that the main difference was criminal activity. Now, the lines are a little more blurred. A sociopath is an extreme NPD.

Speaking of sociopaths.....anyone keeping up on the Jodie Arias murder trial? She's on the stand......has been for something like 7 days straight....telling her story of "self-defense" and every other graphic detail in her life. Today the prosecutor took over and began to cross-examine her.

She is a text book sociopath. It's fascinating and freaky all at the same time.

My theory is she freaked out after being sexually used by Travis Alexander. She was frustrated that her bedroom calisthenics failed to hook him into falling in love with her. To Jodie this was a full on relationship and to him, she was no more than a f-buddy. He soon realized (after a few months) she was a complete nut and he dumped her. You all know the script....nobody and I mean NObody gets away with "dumping" a sociopath or an NPD.

Soon she was calling, texting, stalking and harassing him and the new woman in his life. She would drive a THOUSAND miles to do all of this.

Apparently (from the evidence presented in court) they did continue to have a few sexual hook-ups. But he didn't want to resume the "relationship."

This (I believe) enraged her and she ratcheted up the stalking behavior. The weekend Travis Alexander was murdered, she drove the 1000 miles to his home, claimed they had sex and began taking porno pictures of each other. Then Arias claims that she dropped his camera, he freaked out and she had to kill him in self defense.

I think she drove from California to Arizona with the intention of killing Travis after discovering that he was taking his new girlfriend to Cancun.

She claims that Alexander was abusive, etc. But she was stalking, wouldn't go away, slashed his tires (twice) and his new girlfriend's tires, spied on them through his windows while hiding outside.

It's always amazing to me how these types claim that they are the real victim of the very same behavior/abuse they are perpetrating on someone else.

And she's bright. And a pathalogical liar, quick on her feet with her lies. And she's as sneaky as a snake....weepy and delicate while being questioned by her attorney, but aggressive and smirking while questioned by the prosecutor.

[This message edited by sadtoo at 12:31 PM, February 22nd (Friday)]


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7925 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 12:31 PM, February 26th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG! I am watching this trial. I am triggering. (a tiny bit )

This psycho is unbelievable. She has the "circular talk" down to a science!

Prosecutor - Is the sky blue?

Arias - ummm....I wouldn't say "blue"....maybe more like cobalt. And the answer really depends on what you mean by "is"...

UNbelievable.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7925 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 2:19 AM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Help! I just started reading Narcissistic Lovers and a lot fits, but a few things don't. I'm don't think he fits all five of the criteria to be diagnosed as npd. I don't care about a clinical diagnosis, but I would like some peace of mind. Is it possible to be partial npd?


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 2:24 AM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, want.

It is my opinion that narcissism is a spectrum that goes all the way from healthy narcissism to psychopathy. So, yes, I think it's possible that he exhibits some, but not all, of the signs of malignant narcissism.

What signs have you seen with him?


Posts: 10892 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
bee711
♀ New Member
Member # 37320
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I've suspected WH/STBXH was NPD for a long time! I kinda self diagnosed him. Glad to know there is an explanation for some behavior, even though it is in NO WAY excusable!

Any suggestions for handline a NPD through the divorce process?


BW (me) 36
WH (him) 33
Beautiful son - 2
Married 6 years, together 7
D day: Oct 5 2012

Posts: 39 | Registered: Oct 2012
want_to_forgive
♀ Member
Member # 20470
Default  Posted: 5:49 PM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello again,

ThoughtIKnewYa, thank you for responding to my post. I wanted to wait until I was at a real computer before I responded, typing on my Ipad takes forever.

As I stated last night, I have just begun to explore the possibility that my STBX (47 years old) has NPD. Someone on the site turned me on to “Narcissistic Lovers”. I was floored when I started reading, although my STBX doesn’t fit all of the criteria.

Some of the things that really jumped out at me that are red flags:

• When we first got together, he swore that I was perfect for him. After we got married, he would often tell me that he couldn’t understand what had happened to me, because I was so perfect for him in the beginning.

• He had a long term affair with my best friend, showing no remorse for the pain he caused me until recently.

• He feels that he is smarter than pretty much everyone else. He feels his “wisdom” should be shared, and if people would just listen to him everything would be better. He gets extremely frustrated if people close to him don’t take his advice.

• He is very materialistic, constantly needing to acquire new things to validate himself. He likes to keep up with the Joneses.

• He has FOO issues that he hasn’t worked through. His father was a mean alcoholic. He is unusually close to his mother.

• He isn’t very interested in sex with me. Watches a lot of Porn alone and masturbates. (Cerebral N)

• Here is a biggie: He believes that everything that people do around him is because of him. This has been a huge issue for us throughout our marriage. If I forget to unlock the front door before he comes home from work I am disregarding him on purpose to show him I don’t respect him. If my DD17 does anything that annoys him, he believes she is doing it on purpose to goad him. He is unusually focused on what other people are saying or doing behind his back. I would constantly tell him: You are overthinking this, nobody is thinking that much about you. When I would say things like that he would get very upset with me and say that I was insinuating something is wrong with him.

• He definitely bends rules to get what he wants (Rules don’t apply to me.)

• Throughout our marriage and through the repercussions of the A, he was very concerned that I take blame for problems in our marriage. He is still really focused on this, that it’s not all his fault. When we argue, he will often say things like: You handled that wrong, you need to do XYZ next time and I won’t be angry.

• There have been times in our M that he has seemed to want to separate me from close friends or family, but I have never let that happen.

Things that don’t seem to fit the NPD profile:

• He isn’t unusually mean. He manipulates me but not by insulting me. This is a little weird because I think he means it as a compliment but I take it as an insult: At different times in our M when we have talked about splitting up, one of the reasons he says he doesn’t want to is that he doesn’t think he could find anyone better than me. (Not I love you, I want to be with you, you make me happy, etc.)

• Although he does believe he is smarter than the Average Joe, he doesn’t act like a know-it-all and he hates people who do. He’s not the type to constantly try to one-up someone in a conversation.

• He isn’t the type to want to be the center of attention in a large group. He is so afraid of them judging him that he is hesitant to call attention to himself. (When he drinks all of that goes out the window though, he becomes very outgoing and social.)

I took the quizzes in the book to help identify if I have co-dependent tendencies, I scored in the above average range.

If you have made it this far, thank you so much for reading. I am just beginning this journey of discovery. My best friend cautioned me to be careful not to put too much meaning into personality disorders. She said that if we look closely at ourselves we probably all have certain aspects of different ones. I am desperate to help identify why I have stayed with this man for so long. I need to give myself permission to permanently leave him even though he is trying so hard to get me to take him back. AND, I don’t want to repeat this cycle in future relationships. Whew. I have some major work in front of me.

So here is the question experienced SI'ers, do you think I have a NPD STBXH on my hands?


M 11 years
Me: BS 38 Him: WS
DDay June 2006, LTA BFFOW
Divorced April 5, 2013
Not making a decision is making a decision.

Posts: 534 | Registered: Jul 2008 | From: Alaska
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