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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: N P D Thread - Part 11
Edie
♀ Member
Member # 26133
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awww, Wounded, your poor DD seems trying so hard to care for everybody, to be fair, do her best by everybody, presumably having no clue about NPD and the lifelong doublebind she may find herself trapped in with her father already asserting itself, so I am feeling very sorry for her.

And I hate the Caucasian Chalk Circle denoument scenario being pushed by NPD X under the guise of love. I don't kinow enough of the back story to know what the real danger to DD is (physically) but might there be a way , without rescinding any of the visitation settlements already signed and sealed, to cede a little ground to her in this, as temporary and trial measure? As per Caucasian Chalk Circle, or original Solomon story, the true parent does not rip the baby in half in order to retain their half - your EX is pulling so hard, the fracture/ schism in DD is already happening, how can she be protected without it being Mum being seen to be the one keeping her from her father? Can the professionals advice be sought on how to help her deal with NPD solipsism? If granted now, can DD handle the self-determinism that will be needed to withstand NPD blackmail when she realises she cannot handle more than 28% contact?

Not got any answers, so sorry, it just feels that she needs to be given her head a little on this, and that it's not personal against you, it's the double bind.


Maybe a long walk in the Hindu Kush would do it?
BW (me) 52
FWS 55
Together 29 years; 2 DDs 15 & 12
Dday Dec 08 (confessed) Feb 09 16 other OW confessed. OW17 tried her unedifying hardest until Aug 09. R'd.

Posts: 4960 | Registered: Nov 2009 | From: UK
Nature_Girl
♀ Member
Member # 32554
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I need help for the same reason. STBX overtly manipulating the children for increased custody & parenting time. He brainwashes them, then they repeat what he says to People Who Matter During This Divorce Process. If I say nothing, then he gets his way & my kids are further traumatized because he's an abuser & sex pervert. If I say something, then I'm putting my kids in the middle. STBX truly does not care that he's literally tearing the children in two. Hell, I don't think he's capable of even realizing it.


Me = BS (Stay-at-home-mom)
Him = EX-d out (abusive troglodyte NPD SA)
3 elementary school-aged kids
Together 20 years
D-Day: Memorial Weekend 2011
2013 - I DIVORCED HIM, I'M FREE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBOJpIwF47Y

Posts: 8792 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: USA
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 5:52 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My first reaction was new IC, but perhaps some input from your IC to DD's IC so it is not just YOU (you know the mother and bitter ex ... )

As for how to talk to DD... I end up saying things like "your dad and I both had input when the visitation schedule was created. Then a court/judge decided the most stable environment was to be here most of the time for school and because you have your own room/bed and whatever else I have at hand to sound reasonable.

In my head of course I want to scream, I am the good parent and your dad is a totally screwed up FT and you are lucky you don't live there!!

I hate when the kids say "it's not fair to dad" because I know that they heard that from him or some version of the poor me's sparked it. I just say that what is fair to me or dad was never considered. What is best for the children is most important and lots of grown ups have weighed in on that. IC, judge, both parents, mediator or whomever.

(((wb2))) Hang in there and don't let DD have any rein or lead right now. She doesn't really want it. All acting out or attacking type behaviors are symptomatic of her trauma IMO. Remain calm and in control and she'll respond eventually.

(((NG))) I know your brand of stbx. Don't panic. Stay the course. Argue reasonably for one home, stable school year, and be prepared to give on holidays/summers. Chances are he'll cave when it doesn't add up to savings in CS.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5310 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
PhoenixRisen
Member
Member # 35912
Default  Posted: 8:29 PM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

now if we can only add a text bubble to say "Caulk is cheap!"


Posts: 415 | Registered: Jun 2012
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 1:54 PM, November 15th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Caulk is cheap!"

Reminds me of "Talk is cheap," which is quite true when dealing with a NPD.


Posts: 1434 | Registered: Oct 2011
wontdefineme
♀ Member
Member # 31421
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, November 15th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Everytime I see a tube of caulk in my house, it gives me something to smile about, sort of like that envelope I found hidden that was viagra he had used back in 2005. No matter what he does now, it is just humorous, predictable, and just pathetic. I am glad I am not him, married to him, or have to wait for the next financial disaster.

Next time I need a laugh, I will go look at the caulk.


Posts: 2079 | Registered: Mar 2011
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 4:53 PM, November 15th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I talked to my BIL today. He's the one who was injured in Iraq and is M to my NPD SIL. He's doing great, but he said something that made me tilt my head to the side, a bit. He said his Ws new BFF is her 16 y/o son's GF. She's 46 or 47 and the girl is the same age as her son. That seems really off to me. I just don't know what to make of it. Any insight??

Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 9:11 PM, November 15th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm feeling very unsettled tonight. Yesterday, I finally bit the bullet and wrote a very brief, very nice note to STBX saying that any sort of reconciliation would not be possible ever - and that I would help him in any way to find an apartment so that we could all move forward for the best for all concerned.

Or something like that. For those who know me, reconciliation was NEVER EVER EVER in the cards. But I am treading carefully now.

My story is that he's a SA/NPD. When I found his secret email account 14 months ago, I asked him to leave our house, and he moved in with OW. Since then he has made my life a living hell (sorry if I sound like a broken record for those who already know this story). He has filed for sole physical custody even though he only sees the kids twice a week. And filed for CS from me, a SAHM for eight years (he's an attorney). Oh, and he actually accused me of DV. I don't even like typing that because I know some people will believe it.

Anyhow, OW kicked him out. BC he has refused to pay his credit card bills since July, he has destroyed his credit. He has NO credit cards! No friends - I think he's pretty much lost every single one of them. And his elderly dad lives 12 hours away.

Oh, and no car.

Interestingly, none of this mattered when he was living with/sponging off the attorney OW like a parasite.

So that's why I tried to let him down easily. He's been trying to come back into this house ever since she kicked him out. And I've been terrified of the rage that will come when I said no. I read the book "Splitting" and it says that he is most dangerous right after he loses - like this.

And now? Crickets. He didn't even call the children for two nights in a row, which is unheard of. I feel like he's dead, or in the bushes outside my windows.

Am I crazy? Why can't I calm down?


Posts: 1434 | Registered: Oct 2011
ThoughtIKnewYa
♀ Member
Member # 18449
Default  Posted: 9:19 PM, November 15th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh, and he actually accused me of DV. I don't even like typing that because I know some people will believe it.
Well, *I* don't believe it. I doubt many others would, either.

(((CH))) Do you have someone who can come stay with you to lessen the fear?? Aside from that, make sure all of the doors are locked (I hope you changed the locks. If not, and you're afraid, please leave until you can get that done.), make sure windows are secure, security system armed, and (I hate to say this) keep a weapon close by- a fireplace poker, anything you can use. He's probably NOT stalking you. My guess is that he's out securing his next victim.

Stay safe and keep us posted on how you're doing.


Posts: 10976 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: North Carolina
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 2:29 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Getting away from the NPD is the dangerous time. CH, you are in the getting away stage because he is focused on you and even though you have been apart for months, now is when he is trying to keep you.

So what do you do? Don't jump at shadows. For all that the NPD is a scary awful horrible soulless person we cannot begin to understand they are not super humans. They are not invisible or capable of leaping tall buildings. They are ridiculous caulk hoarding zebraducks.

All I can give is my personal experience. I will pm sadtoo and see if she can give the details of her story which involve an ex who did more aggressively horrible things.

Stretch tormented me. He financially strangled me. He took control of the power and phone accounts. He left gifts for the kids at the house when we weren't home. He would call over and over and over. I had begun to know the NPD and the implications of all of that. I feared him and I feared the absence of him because if I didn't see him or hear him where was he??? I understand thinking he is outside the window.

Did Stretch want to kill me? I think so. I think he'd have done it in a second and that before I went uber public with his antics and his behaviors he would have believed he could get away with it. Think Scott Peterson and the poor loving husband grieving publicly. He'd have enjoyed the attention and the secret knowledge. When we were married, more than once he put his hands around my neck during sex. He never choked, but I think he fantasized about it. ... shudder.

I was too loud and too counter aggressive to let that happen. I "made a scene" in court. I filed a 50B. I notified the school and had him removed from being able to pick up the kids. I told my sordid awful story to everyone... I may have looked crazy, I may have been crazy... but I am sure he got "the look" from the teachers at the kids' school and the ladies at church.

I went to my doc and got STD testing and anxiety meds and a note form my doc for court that Stretch's behaviors were at the root of both issues. I visited an IC for a few visits and talked it out. *Please be aware that your IC is not private. If summoned to court they can be compelled to tell what you have said. I made sure what I said showed I was self aware, dealing with my issues responsibly, and fearful of him and his potential for violence.

Stretch also made a bid for full custody. I know that is a scary horrifying terrifying fear. But a rational reasonable not afraid person can see that it is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. To change the current stable status of custody he'd have to prove you are unfit and dangerous and that he is both fit and capable and a better choice.

So begin the accusations of DV (check) of crazy (check) and of drug abuse (check) and drinking (nope, skipped that one) and child abuse (check) and parental alienation (check) but remember that just because a crazy vindictive NPD says it only makes it true in NPD LAND.

As scary as this all is, and for all the horrified but well meaning sympathetic real life friends and family who just don't get it, there is the tribe and the stories of those whose eerily similar NPD FUCKS pulled this same shit and we are still HERE. I am a survivor, hear me ROAR.

I can share this stuff and can bring it out of the dark shadows and own it because this group of people laughed cried and held my hand along the way. Walk with us, we got your back.


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5310 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
woundedby2
♀ Member
Member # 18522
Default  Posted: 5:31 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd love Sadtoo to chime in for some of the newer members with her wisdom. She would also be a great one to help with that safety thread that jj started in IT.

Update on my current NPD sitch...I had a phone call from Assclown today. "So are you willing to work together on DD's request for split custody? Or are we going to have to go to court?" I said, "Not at this time. No. I might consider it in a few months time, after things have settled down for DD..." His reply, "Well, that's not going to happen." Fine. Whatever.

I got 2 atty referrals from church friends. One is more of a mediation/collaborative atty; I'm not sure that's the sort of atty I need. I think I need hardass litigator right now. The second atty handled a divorce and custody situation involving an alcoholic where he was able to get supervised visitation for her kids. I think that's pretty hard to get, so I'm thinking he's more likely a strong atty.

It can't hurt to consult with both of them, right? I'll see what sort of advice I can glean from each of them. And I'll go with the one who seems the most able to understand the "crazy" and who seems strongest to handle it.

[This message edited by woundedby2 at 5:31 PM, November 16th (Friday)]


Me: BS
2 kids: DD15 and DS18
Him: The Assclown NPD
OW: "friend" of 15 years
Divorced! Feb. 2010

Everybody, soon or late, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
~Robert Louis Stevenson


Posts: 7636 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: SoCal
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 6:57 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Please be aware that your IC is not private. If summoned to court they can be compelled to tell what you have said. I made sure what I said showed I was self aware, dealing with my issues responsibly, and fearful of him and his potential for violence.

...and THAT is good for the safety thread thank you very much!

(((w2)))
Dear friend, consider this a 2X4. The thing you don't want to give these NPD ASSCLOWNS is information. Information regarding your plans, your thoughts, the state of your heart or being...give them nothing, but take from them everything!
.
.
.

You are well aware of stalling tactics. Answering his question with; "I don't know, let me think on that, possibly, really? oh look! there's a crumb on the floor!"
is the correct answer.

Answering the way you did? C'mon.
If you're gonna poke the zebraduck, at least, could you take his eye out? ...instead of giving him warning of your intentions.
Now he's getting prepared. That equals "harder on you".

Don't make me come over there woman! Wachadoooin?
Distract. Delay. Re-direct that evil motherfukker of yours. Remember - hold it high in your thoughts - this is a man that would sacrifice his own daughter on the altar of his own personal advantage.

(I realize this may be the first ever 2X4 delivered in the history of tribedom...ok then! Give them nothing! Gahhhh!)

I love you (((Tribe)))
Please, let us bend our hearts to gma.


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
jjct
♂ Member
Member # 17484
Default  Posted: 7:01 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I forgot. Forgot to post the words of a man I met. Here.

As soon as the {NPD's}
can predict the motions of your mind,
lose it. Leave it as a sign
to mark the false trail, the way
you didnít go. Be like the fox
who makes more tracks than necessary,
some in the wrong direction.

BE LIKE THE FOX


Posts: 6032 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
caregiver9000
♀ Member
Member # 28622
Default  Posted: 8:35 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ooooooh, a new motto! BE LIKE THE FOX.

wb, I would not even meet with the mediator. You cannot mediate on this. You need to fight and NOT negotiate.

Remember there is no compelling reason to change the existing situation and plenty of reasons to leave it alone. He has to present an argument that shows a damn good reason to change it. And because the traumatized teen wants to ain't a very good reason.

TIKY, your question from earlier about the younger BFF? Teens are naturally self centered and invincible. Easily swayed by a smooth talker and likely to give adoration and attention. Not likely to argue or challenge the status of the "relationship" or question the wonderfulness as presented. hmmmmm, a match made in heaven? I don't think adults who get their ego feeding from children are healthy. It reeks creepy to me.

[This message edited by caregiver9000 at 9:03 PM, November 16th (Friday)]


Me: 43, independent, happy, despite co-parenting with a lower muppet
FT "Stretch" (and Skew!) ;)
DS 12 DS 9
S 5/2010
D 12/2012

Posts: 5310 | Registered: May 2010 | From: a better place
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone!

I'm sorry I have been absent for so long. We have FINALLY moved to the farm, and it has been non-stop work since. Now the holidays are coming up and you all know how I go way overboard with my decorating.

"I just want more time with Dad.", "It's not fair to dad that he doesn't get 50/50.", and "I want to have a better relationship with him."

WB2,
Why can't they just slink away like the snake they are?

The first thing that jumps out at me here is that this is what NPDDAD wants, not DD. He is playing her like a fiddle and trying to enlist sympathy from DD.

What else is going on with him and OW? Think about what they would get out of DD being with them more often.

Is it $$ ? Is he trying to move the custody to 50-50 so he doesn't have to pay child support? Is DD at an age where she could be a live-in babysitter for OW's kids or their kids?

If I were you, I would explain to DD that a judge decided when and where she was going to live. And that when parents divorce, the parents cannot make all the decisions any longer.

My sister is going through this same crap with her X-freak. He and his new wife have a 1yo little boy and they need a babysitter. Plus, he doesn't want to pay child support any longer. It's a whole whopping $750.00. He tells their DD that her mother "stole everything" from him and he can barely pay his bills because he pays "so much money to her mother." One day, my sister at her wits end, went to the bank and withdrew $750.00 and gave it to DD. Then every time something came up that required $, she asked DD for the appropriate amount. Lunch tickets, new shoes for basketball, karate classes, paying additional insurance for DD to have a learner's permit. DD was out of $ in two weeks.

I would hold firm. And I would also find another IC for your daughter.

Hang in there. (((WB2)))

ChoosingHope,

....or in the bushes outside my windows.

This sent a chill up my spine. That's what mine would do. I cannot say with enough urgency that you need to TRUST YOUR GUT. If you think or feel that he is out hiding in the bushes, he probably is.

Forgive me, but I am not completely familiar with your story. Are you divorced or just in the process?

I know how you feel about the DV issue. Mine claimed the same thing, when in fact HE was the V one. He filed complaints with the court that I had abused him, was a drug addict and a drug dealer. Total craziness.

I know you're trying to be nice and tread lightly, but the only way to deal with these nut-cases is to go NC. With children it's more difficult, but you can only address him through e-mail and ignore the things he says that are personal.

If he does end up hiding in the bushes, get a protection order.

Also, change all the locks in the house and add deadbolts and window locks. Put in a surveillance system if you need to. A big dog is also a great deterent. I highly recommend the English Mastiff. They are not fond of intruders, but very loving to their family.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
MyReturn2Me
♀ Member
Member # 34352
Default  Posted: 11:11 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm back for thread 11 too. My stbxwh says he's not a SA but he's just a selfish, arrogant ass. He may not be diagnosed NPD but he's a NPD-BPD jerkoff none-the-less.

I've got the empty tubes of caulk, dried up caulk in caulk guns, and a garage that holds more trash and junk than an episode of Intervention-Hoarders!

He hasn't done anything crazy lately, because fortunately he travels during the week but he does live next door so on the weekends I avoid him like the plague.

He's in 'suck her back in' mode and has been off and on since I kicked him out.

Thank you SI for the tools to recognize the push me/pull me dance of the person with no soul.


Me: BS 51 and Freaking AWESOME!
Him: Who the fuck cares........

Posts: 259 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Puget Sound
sadtoo
♀ Member
Member # 2027
Default  Posted: 11:28 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MyReturn2Me,
He may not be diagnosed NPD but he's a NPD-BPD jerkoff none-the-less
.

Most are not diagnosed. An NPD isn't likely going to seek therapy for self help In order to gain personal insight. There's NOTHING wrong with them, doncha know?

Like Caregiver9000 pointed out, most NPD's (if not all) are SA's.


It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE the worthless
bum.
OC born 2001
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)


Posts: 7927 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa
ChoosingHope
♀ Member
Member # 33606
Default  Posted: 11:29 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At the end of the day, NPD SA STBX just leaves me completely baffled. I can't figure out if he's reconciled with SA OW, or killed himself, or gone to visit his father, or out partying with similarly sick people, or lying dead in some apartment or hotel room, or planning his revenge on me.

I can't seem to summon the will and the strength to move forward with everything I have to do (sell house, find a place to live, find schools for my children, find a JOB for the first time in eight years) while dealing with this anxiety. And I'm not even including the legal battles and crazy accusations against me.

HOW did you all do it???


Posts: 1434 | Registered: Oct 2011
MyReturn2Me
♀ Member
Member # 34352
Default  Posted: 11:30 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay, I went back and read from the beginning.

I am not able to comment to everyone but let me just say


Me: BS 51 and Freaking AWESOME!
Him: Who the fuck cares........

Posts: 259 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Puget Sound
MyReturn2Me
♀ Member
Member # 34352
Default  Posted: 11:33 PM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ChoosingHope,
I think we just do. Some days we do more than other days, but we're always making progress, moving forward.

What else can we do? We sure can't look back, we know we're not going that way. So, we move forward.

I hear the exhaustion in your post, I feel it too.

Please remember that Self Care is paramount to all of us.


Me: BS 51 and Freaking AWESOME!
Him: Who the fuck cares........

Posts: 259 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: Puget Sound
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