You have been so strong for so long! Keep it going! Hold your cards close and do all you can for YOU!
You'll be in my prayers all day long. I know how much it hurts when they bully us, it's ABUSE. As if the A wasn't painful enough. Stay strong!
Prayers all day gotta, all day.
Brandon it's ok they were grandfathered in because they did it before they were married
I am amazed at how he can turn things around. That takes true talent of totally assanine level. How can a cheater justify their actions and make you out to be the wrong one?
How can a cheater justify their actions and make you out to be the wrong one?
I can't remember if your WH's OW is married. If so you can expose to her BH as well. Also you don't have to answer the phone. If it's too upsetting just ignore him for now. Just don't answer the phone. Your silence will send more of a message to him than anything else. If you are with extended family tell one of them what is happening and have them talk to him about issues with the kids only for now. Keep eating, drinking, and take care of yourself. ((((gotta))))
[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 11:05 AM, February 18th (Monday)]
He knows he’s finished and no more playing games… He is in pure panic mode. He is in the most difficult of emotional situations any man can be under.
Keep your cool.. damn straight you are in control. You are a quality woman.. PERIOD!
“look, this is about you, not me. I am going to give you want you want, not what I want, what YOU WANT.”
“Look, there is no need to lie to yourself. Just stop it”
DO NOT ARGUE or DEBATE THIS WITH ANYTHING.. DON’T Give him any more explanation about any details you know.. you will lose.. KEEP it SIMPLE FOR YOU..
"I cannot even listen to your shit. This is dday buddy"
"Look you can say whatever you want to me, but until you decide to live your life in the open, I cannot talk to you. YOUR CHOICE not mine."
LET HIM VENT, CALL YOU NAMES.. Bounce it off you.. You can do this.. this is the shock of diving in.. it gets far easier from here out.
Now for the next few days.. just do the 180…
So here's the list:
1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW." (Poodlepapa)
and again.. Go transfer that money!
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:09 PM, February 18th (Monday)]
"Look OW's H, I am not crazy, you can believe me or not. My H has been in an A with your W for a long time. I forgive you if you knew and did not tell me. If not, go uncover it yourself, it won't be hard. I am telling you because it is the right thing to do. Please, I must now focus on ME. Don't call me ever again."
If he does not pick up his phone and it is private work.. leave the message. If you can text him do it. Keep trying until you reach him.
Oh he'll get it this time.
[This message edited by trynhard at 1:12 PM, February 18th (Monday)]
I'm glad you finally found your strength, I am sorry you are going through. But you have to face it, go thru it, IF you are going to get past it.
Everyone here is right. IGNORE his phone calls, stay safe and more then anything, MOVE ALL THE MONEY THAT YOU CAN!!!...do it RIGHT NOW. Mark my words, if you don't, he will and then you will feel like you don't have the upper hand, but in reality you hold ALL the cards, don't let him insult or scare you out of that. Please stay strong, be safe and keep posting. We are all here for you.
.. try and transfer every penny.. even if a bill gets unpaid... Every penny!
gotta, banks were closed yesterday, but do this today. Talk with and hire an attorney. When I was looking at D, my attorney recommended stop making house payments, they would get caught up and settled in the D.
Because that is what they believe, that they have talked themselves into believing is the truth. This is how FWW was. It was not a lie it was what she believed. She felt that she was being the bigger person and doing me a favor by not leaving and giving me a chance after dday.
Attorney, attorney, attorney
Money, money, money
Document, document, document
Old posts to SI make a good place to go back and jog the memory to backfill a journal.
Things are civil. I am not crying or begging, I think I'm just numb and also hoping he "gets it". I think I am also reaching the acceptance point. He tried talking about it a little but says he doesn't know why he is so attracted to her, but from everything I have heard through my recorder it's all fantasyland. Not much of what they talk about is based in reality. Ouch, that hurts but I just let it roll off and told him to figure it out.
He desperately wants to take the trip as a honeymoon we never had but I told him as I wrote in the Valentine card for her that I can't go on a "honeymoon" with her in the background. It's totally stupid on my part to go when he's got her on his mind.
I have a counseling session today, thankfully. I'm hoping she can reinforce some strength.
I enjoyed my time with my dad and extended family this weekend. I'm really working hard to shift my attention to him and my kids. My husband has his own distractions. I am going to spend every evening with my dad from 8-10pm and maybe even spend a night or two with him to give my mom a break. We usually enjoy a little "happy hour" as he calls it. He needs my attention desperately and really enjoys it when I visit. That's where my rewards are now.
Thanks for your support, it's tough. I knew I had to have the confrontation, I didn't want to because he can be so nasty to fight with but this time I think he was more scared than he ever has. My note in the card was pretty cut and dried. I spelled out kids, finances, business, everything- and then I wished him happiness and that I wanted to be left alone to find my own happiness.
...says he doesn't know why he is so attracted to her...
Fine, but what has he done to understand or fix it? Has he scheduled and attended IC? Has he ordered and read the books Not Just Friends and Sexual Detours? Has he asked you to help him craft and send a no-contact letter to OW and OW BS? These are all actions to show he wants to end the A and repair the M.
At this point actions speak louder than words. Words are likely going to be:
2. Tools of Manipulations
3. Reflection of true feelings based on miss-perceptions of reality
An addict (food, cigarettes, alcohol, or heroin) does not have to understand the physiological and psychological underpinnings of his or her addiction to go cold turkey.
...he was more scared than he ever has....
For many people, especially men, fear often expresses as anger. As does embarassment, frustration... His angry words say more about him than you, refer again to my list above. Actions speak lowder than words, watch for sustained actions. This is where your truth with him and the M lays.
attorney, attorney, attorney
money, money, money
document, document, document
and stop twice each day to buy yourself a cookie and latte and give yourself a hug
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:47 AM, February 19th (Tuesday)]
It took me 6 weeks to gather the courage to confront my WH -- and when I did I did it over the phone, and he lied his ass off, and then my two nannies left him with the kids and took me out to the Mall for a coffee and a mani-pedi and agreed with me that he was lying. They were a huge amazing source of support to me. They repaid every kindness I'd ever done them in helping them immigrate to the U.S. tenfold. I had to find a way to get proof so I got OW to out him over e-mail a few days later.
Now, I can't believe I was so avoidant. But once she'd outed him I went ballistic that day. I told him on the phone he was busted. He came straight home from work and I screamed at him and cried and chewed him out. I was a mess.
In short, I handled everything differently than I should have and I'd like to hope that I could improve who I am enough to handle conflict better in the future, though I'm still in need of progress.
Try to hold the line, but if you falter, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and begin again.
And we're here. I remember when ATS finally left his wife and stayed in a hotel. I was having a hard time then too. I can remember sitting by the pool watching the kids and also reading all of his posts his courage inspired me and kind of kept me going.
Gotta, the pain I felt from WH's infidelity was the worst pain I've ever felt. I've had 5 miscarriages, been in a train derailment, divorced a man I loved who I'd been with for 11 years because he just couldn't behave properly... it's not like nothing bad had ever happened to me, but the LTA was the most painful. It's hard to spend each day with the person who treated me more poorly than anyone ever has. I often wonder if I'm doing the right thing here. I suppose I'll never really know.
Anyway, we're here for you.
Hey, you have helped me with your perspective by answering to my posts in the past. I had to respond to your post. I could hear the extreme pain that you still carry, as does my BH.
Last night we had a MC appt. He did not say much throughout our session. We talked more about his perception of things and "how things should be". Our MC has said that she has never met someone who has such RIGID views. Views that can not be swayed. There is no room for grey in many of my BH's thoughts, even in things that have nothing to do with my A.
However we were discussing V Day and he said he didn't want to be around that day. However the problem was that Two days prior when we talked about it, he said he would be home, even when I told him the day before that I was planning to make him the big dinner he never said he wouldn't be home. It wasn't until the night before he dropped the bomb. I said to the MC that he could have just discussed that with me and I would have understood and given him his space. Just another example of our horrible communication. We also discussed an incident he had with our 12 year old DD, when he told her she was dumb and not good enough at Basketball and he said it in public. So long story short yes he has apologized to her, not as quickly as I would have liked him to or in the way I would have liked, but he did do it. So those were the two topics we talked about, because Before my A I would avoid and not bring up the things that bothered me or that I was afraid would get my BH in an uproar and yelling. So my BH was very emotionally drained afterwards. We had a moment alone in the hallway afterward I hugged him and told him that I loved him. He wouldn't answer, so kidding around I said it over and over again. Then he said "I love you too". I told him I know you love me even though I know it hurts. My BH just started crying. I tried to keep it together and light, since our kids were in the car.
My point is, that my LTA is the worst thing that has ever happened to my BH as well. He has lived through his father being a drug addict alcoholic, he physically abused his mother, he wound up in prison, left their family and is buried somewhere is potters field, to say there is a HUGE hole there for my BH is an understatement. My BH cousin was brutally murdered when they were 11 years old, she was his best friend. My BH's Mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer right before our wedding, we moved up the date and she died a month later. We also have had 2 miscarriages. Yet my A is what ripped out and tore my BH's heart to pieces.
It's hard to spend each day with the person who treated me more poorly than anyone ever has. I often wonder if I'm doing the right thing here. I suppose I'll never really know.
You have been in R as long as we have. I want you to know that if your FWH is present with you, is really there with you and is loving with you, then please believe you are doing the right thing. Only YOU know if those things are true.
I can only speak for myself, not for your FWH, but my LTA disgusts me. Even today driving home from work I had a flash of D Day when my BH was yelling my name from outside the hotel room for me. For him to know the love of his life was inside that hotel room with another man. He stood in that parking lot after and told me he still loves me and wants to make our M work. My LTA is the most painful thing I have ever experienced as well. I have caused my husbands love for me to cause him pain. He is in pain every singe minute of every day. I hope to help him through, when and if he lets me.
Yes both your FWH and I lied. We lied for YEARS. It is horrible, but it is my truth. I have to live with it forever, as does your FWH.
M333, you have done your work. You are a strong courageous woman and Mom. You know within you that you are strong enough to leave if you had to. I think the last step in your R process is to let yourself go. Try to be open to your love for your FWH. You can't control or see the future and I know you are afraid, but in order to love him completely you have to let him in. You do know what you will do IF it ever happens again, but to live with that horrible thought every day is not allowing you to live completely.
My BH is the love of my life. Did I realize that before my A? Absolutely, years before, but then I got lost and cut off from him in my hurt. I lost sight of my BH. My eyes are now open. I hold my M in such high regard. I won't let anyone, that includes me, sabotage and ruin what I have worked for everyday to save.
I love my BH. Does that keep me grounded? Does that prevent me from cheating? No, absolutely not. I will never let MYSELF go down that road. I am stronger inside then I have ever been in my entire life. I do not like who I was, I love who I have worked to become. No one is worth losing that.
I don't want you to live in doubt that you have made a "wrong decision" in staying in your M. You deserve to be happy. I hope you (and my BH) find it.
No, rock bottom -limerance DOES go away! It's going away already for your WH! It's when they begin to see the affair partner without the rose colored glasses on. They begin to see the reality of what life would be like with the affair partner and in most cases it would NOT be pretty! If anything your WS is mourning the loss of his fantasy world because he's realizing that life with the 20 yr old screw up will be extremely screwed up for him too. Be ready ,he may come back to you Asking forgiveness and wanting to get back together.
Apparently the limerance did not go away. He says he can see a future with me and the kids, and cannot see a future with her. And while he'll miss me, he is so scared of missing her and the pain that will come with leaving her. His head wants R, his heart wants her in an intense, unexpainable way and it is keeping him from wanting R and pretty much makes R something that will never, ever happen. Well thanks, asshole. You and your 21 year old fantasy whore can go to hell.
"Even on my weakest days,
I get a little bit stronger"
She said to just let him sit in the background and figure himself out if he doesn't want to do any counseling. She says maybe he will come around and maybe he won't, nothing new there. She said if he does decide to come around to wanting to be a good husband, she wonders if I will be there when he wakes up. She said through working on shifting my focus and improving my self worth in other areas I may just find that he is a hinderance and come to terms with divorce on my own. I like this approach. She says not to beat myelf up for not kicking him to the curb. She says to use this time to have him help with the kids so I can spend time with my dad. I am doing pretty good shifting my focus to my dad and kids. It's a little easier to shift to my dad since his needs are pretty immediate where my kids are teenagers and are doing ok.
My husband is still out of town "working". I don't know if he's seeing her or not and I really don't care. At one time I was going to drive 5 hours each direction to see for myself but it would be a big hassle and I've decided he's not worth it. This is a first for me! Finding the Valentine card and writing him my goodbyes was good therapy for me. It told him how I feel and that I have a plan on how to go on without him, I'm not afraid. I feel pretty disconnected from him. I think it has him scared to death. I also have just had small conversations with him, nothing about working things out and wanting to fix it. No threats, no tears, no begging, nothing. Pretty removed. He hated me having my counseling appointment today, he knows he's a "class a" jerk and that I will be working on making myself stronger.
He did ask me if I contacted her or her spouse and I said no she is still in happyland. I won't contact her or her spouse, she is not worth my time. She's a worthless piece of trash, not worth my emotions anymore. Her husband has his head up his ass and isn't paying attention or he would know. I don't want more battles, I am just letting it go.
I am pretty numb, I don't have many feelings about this. I am not angry, sad, or anything, just numb. I think it has hurt so bad for so long that I am just stunned for awhile. Maybe it's acceptance, I don't know. A LTA is awful, there is nothing worse than feeling like you've been replaced, someone is better than you and that no matter how many right things you do that you can't get your WS back. I guess really it is there problem, they are the ones with the issues and have managed to make them ours. Whatever!
Gently here, but being honest, with all the help and support you have received, it was disappointing to me to see you pen,
"her husband has his head up his ass,"
which in a way is judging the other BS as being in some state of denial that merits no compassion....or help from you.
My WW had me fooled for 3 years. Granted the long distance minimized the obviousness of the A, but still I had blind trust for her. And why not?
I would have liked to have gotten a call from you, Gotta.
In terms of being in denial, last week you posted that you had sex with your cheater, even with all the black and white physical evidence that you were being played. No one judged your level of denial there - only sympathy was provided - and thus it would be nice if you would be less cavalier when it comes to taking a risk for the bettering of someone else.
I was glad to read that you made your initial confrontation. Stay strong, the storm has not run out of rain.
[This message edited by MC_Jack at 7:59 PM, February 19th (Tuesday)]
You are right to call me referring to her husband with his head up his ass. I shouldn't do that, he is probably in just as much pain as I am. I called him about a year ago and he didn't believe me. I have been frustrated that he doesn't look harder at what his wife is doing but everyone comes to the truth I'm their own time. I sure have taken mine and he needs his. Sorry.
Last night W and I are going to bed and I comment favorably on her appearance. W gets anguished look on her face. h&c "what's wrong". W "I am conficted" Uh oh.Then a recycled conversation of how she has no feelings for me and it hurts her.
Too little sleep for me.Just walk away and move on OR stay while she continues IC and makes a reasoned decision about our M to stay or go.
This morning we talk some. As I leave for work, I go to hug and kiss her and received the coldest response; one I felt at the height of her A.
I'm done! I arranged to meet W early in the afternoon. Listened to her tell me she does not want to hurt me. Is not working on the M in IC. Focusing on her inner loci in IC. h&c "I love you still. I will not stay with you in this M if you feel this way" W "I am scared; not ready to make the decision to D. Maybe we can give it a time frame" h&c "No, If you want to treat me this way then we can work out the details of the D this evening. I will arrange for the D and it will happen quickly and I will move on with my life. If you want to work on the M, identify and show appreciation for the things that have you staying in the M, then I will stay and continue to work on the M. You or I can change our mind and D at any time." W "okay, I will try"
That's it folks. Tommorrow is another day.
You have the patience of a saint.
I coined that phrase. MC, imo if someone tells you your spouse is having an affair, and you sit back and do nothing, you are not being tricked, you are being a fool.
My friend once told me to just watch out for my W's boss. I bought a gps.. but didn't use it because fear should she find it. No way I said. Yes, I admit it, I had my head up my own ass. I was the fool. 2 years later it all came out. So what, that was then and never again today. I was so naive.
Gotta... It will not be easy to live single while M, but I know you can do it. Just 180 him. I admire your strength.
H&C keep in that mode... You choose to make the M work. When one decides they are not working at M, you give them what they want.She says YES, reward her with filling every need a being attractive.
[This message edited by trynhard at 5:01 AM, February 20th (Wednesday)]