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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I used to think that I was weird for wanting to re-commit if we were able to reconcile. It's nice to see other people on this forum want that too. It is something that would mean alot to me but of course I have given that up with his continued affair.

MC_Jack, I'm sorry she doesn't "get it". It would be an important event to us BS. It signals the respect and love we should have always had from our spouses. To me it says I've wronged you and I want to make it right by you. I can't think of a better way to say it and actually mean it!

When I was married before I cheated and I know it had a part to do with my divorce. I knew when I saw the hurt in my ex-husband's face that I would NEVER do it again. He was angry at me for a long time and probably never did get over it. I've told my current husband that I wouldn't do it even though he's done it to me over and over.

I've never known a hurt so deep, I hope I never go through anything like this again. I am beginning to learn though that you can make it through anything, you have to, there is no other choice. You have to put your head down and trudge through it. My experience has changed me forever. Right now it's definitely not in a good way but eventually I will be a better person for it.

What can our WS say about that? They have ruined who they are, what people thought they were, etc. They have to live with themselves as cheaters, liars, etc. I think that would be hard to live with. We just have a lot of hurt to deal with, it will get better and we will be better people!

I am in limboland, not knowing which direction to head. For now I'm in neutral, not doing anything. My dad is pretty down and is needing lots of support so that's where I am. He was given a different perspective yesterday on his cancer and it wasn't good. Not sure which way it's really headed but I don't think it's good. I am very sad to see my dad withering in strength and spirit. I want to enjoy him to the end and be there for him as he's been there for me all of my life.

Enough rambling for now!


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:57 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you again everybody.

My WW had a storybook first 11 months in terms of R.

The price of that: issues unaddressed.

Now it is harder to address them. At the same time, it is possible that we would have been unable to address them earlier in a healthy way.

You guys are so strong here:

h&c, with you optimism and your sense of what you want in the future. How you just want a loving wife so much that the pain of the A seems to be a mosquito bite long ago scratched and healed.

ATS, with your patience to wait out your WW and maintain your composure. Love is patient indeed.

Gotta, Your resilience in pursuing a dream and taking care of those around you.

Tryn, with your compassion and wisdom, and energy to help us all.

My wife's question is valid:

How on last Wed. could I feel so confident about the future and so romantic towards her that I could propose a vow renewal, and by Sat. making mean comments about her wanting to give the OM sex on her last trip to see him?

what is wrong with me?

am I normal? do I have emotional regulation issues? is wanting to talk seriously about our relationship once every couple of days too draining, too much?

I WAS SO DAMNED INDEPENDENT before the A.

Tryn,

You are right. I need to let go and detach, but detach in a good way. My sense of self and self esteem is way too caught up in my WW staying with me....and/or being 'happy'... and/or my feeling loved and accepted by her (my FOO issue).

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:59 AM, February 12th (Tuesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 11:06 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB -- I doubt many LTA BS's make the mistake of trusting their WS again. If you honestly expect your BH to regain trust for you, you may be waiting a LONG time.

I think the Marriage Buliders website has some information about successfully regaining your spouse's trust after an affair. Perhaps a few people who did manage to trust their spouse again could chime in here.

So, what happens if you're in a marriage where you don't trust your spouse? Well, it's sad, but then again all of it is very sad. I've never been so hurt in my life as I was by my WH's affair and my "friends" duplicity. I cannot for the life of me figure out why they married other people. The only answer I can come to is that they're both too selfish to want to do the work that a marriage and family require and they want the benefits with a free ride.

Anyway, the marriage builders site says they've seen couples regain trust but it takes a solid 2 years of using their system with no mistakes at all. It might be useful to you since you feel like your BH is still "not healing".


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:33 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKGirl,

Wow! He gets it! He is shwoing through actions that you are important to him. Wow!

Thanks for sharing the good news and congrats for getting this done.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC-Jack,
How on last Wed. could I feel so confident about the future and so romantic towards her that I could propose a vow renewal, and by Sat. making mean comments about her wanting to give the OM sex on her last trip to see him?

The roller-coaster. There are still times I am about one too many scotch's away from asking FWW about one of the still unanswered questions. The thing is, the question REALLY do not matter anymore. Nothing she did then, says anything about me or her now. That was then and this is now.

For example, the other day she said that she would like for me to hug and kiss her in a certain way. This is really a big deal for her to ask for physical touch. Still, I wondered if that was how OM held and kissed her and if she missed that. At 3+ years out it still is not gone away.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack

I have done some of the same things

My wife's question is valid:

How on last Wed. could I feel so confident about the future and so romantic towards her that I could propose a vow renewal, and by Sat. making mean comments about her wanting to give the OM sex on her last trip to see him?

what is wrong with me?

am I normal? do I have emotional regulation issues? is wanting to talk seriously about our relationship once every couple of days too draining, too much?

I WAS SO DAMNED INDEPENDENT before the A.

It makes me mad when my husband asks me the same thing. What kind of lies and deceitful things did they do to us? They have changed what we thought our world was, it used to be a safe place, you knew where you stood with your spouse. They go and destroy your foundation and then they question why we react the way we do. We are so hurt and scared to death! We want what we had but it has changed in ways that we don't if our "foundation" is really there. We want to believe we have a future with them but we are scared too. It's ok for them to "check out" of the marriage and then back in but when we question where our marriage really is, they don't understand. Whatever!

I have had some of those draining relationship conversations too. I have finally stopped and wasn't even mad because I never got what I wanted anyway. I kind of gave up. Just Saturday night while driving I told him I wanted him to hold me and tell me he would like to protect me and keep me safe (from him and my dad's cancer). He had plenty of chances and didn't take them once. There were milestones that would have meant alot to me if he would have worn his wedding ring and he hasn't yet. I have asked him to read different books and he hasn't. All kinds of disappointments along the way. He has been decent in other ways but some of these things are "top" for me and he doesn't "get it".

Our worlds are rocked upside down, our self-esteem is damaged by the core person who is supposed to take care of us. Don't we deserve some time to have them reassure us? In fact, they in some ways, owe it us to help us through this.

Like my man, Dr. Phil, says: "you do it until"!

[This message edited by gotta2know at 12:06 PM, February 12th (Tuesday)]


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 12:11 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Completely off topic, but worth checking out...Mark Gunger www.laughyourway.com.

Our marriage was ripe for an affair because WH & I didn't communicate effectively. In hindsight that was due to immaturity (both), suppressed emotions throughout his childhood/family life, unrealistic expections (both), and quite simply being uncomfortable expresses the REAL thoughts behind the ANGER, FRUSTRATION, etc.

We are far from together today, but I am beginning to see some light again. WH has sought counseling, I have forged new friendships and worked on me again. We are going on a marriage retreat this weekend to work on us again. The basis of the retreat is Mark Gunger's book & speaking engagements related to marriage.

I feel confident that regardless of whether I go with my marriage, Mark Gunger's stuff is good, common sense stuff. There is religion there, but more a stand up comedy style that you can't help but laugh at...and gain insights from.

Anyway, just thought I would share something potentially uplifting as those things sometimes seem few & far between during all this


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn et al:

What should I do about the March 7 thing? She is now 'waffling' on whether she wants to go through with it (even though we have had 2 group vow renewals at a weekly Mass thus far).

I was thinking about giving her a deadline, and just plan on skiing in the morning and playing golf in the afternoon if she declines...


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 1:46 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What should I do about the March 7 thing?

Tell her you need an answer by this weekend so that you can make plans. If she says yes, go renew vows if that is what you want [biting tongue]. If she does not say yes (ie, she says no OR continues to waffle) make plans to go skiing and golfing. Do you have some friends you can go with?

Stop chasing your runner. Stop trying harder to fix the M than the person who broke it. Instead, build you own social network. Explore what you are interested in. Take a class, do an activity, volunteer, whatever. I went back to activities I had given up since M.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 1:52 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, what happens if you're in a marriage where you don't trust your spouse?

This is my first post on SI - I have lurked for quite a while but I believe I'm now ready to step in.

My WW had a 2 1/2 year affair with a co-worker. Very serious, very much in love and numerous, really awful things done. But I didn't want to dump my story on you, rather, I thought I'd address the above.

Although my DDay was just 12/5/12, about 14 months ago, I recognized something early on. I wanted to reconcile andI simply cannot live my life in a marriage that does not have complete and total trust.

Now, I recognize the problems this raises. How does one move forward in a marriage that has been broken and yet be comfortable with the level of trust?

First off, I am married to a WW who is completely and 100% recommitted to the marriage and to doing whatever it is that I require for R. That certainly helps. But still, even with a very remorseful WW, trust is very difficult to regain. For any of you that think "If only she were more remorseful I'd feel more trust," think again.

But what I did was make a conscious, determined decision. I decided that I HAD to trust her. I had no choice. I had to provide her with the trust that was necessary for us to grow back together. Without it, we would never heal. We'd never be able to move past the hurt to a place of peace. Trust is an important piece of recovery.

Now don't get me wrong. I keep my eyes open - I will never be fooled again, believe me. I maintain access to her passcodes and phone records. I'm not stupid.

But the day to day trust - "Where are you going?" "Who are you talking to?" "Why did you get home 15 minutes late?" Why did you just close out that email?" - that has to return.

I likened it to an olive branch. I am granting you my trust and you are going to provide me with the support, love and passion I require.

I believe that we need to get to a place where we can take that step, a small but important step, forward.

If you feel that your spouse is sincere in his/her remorse (and, if not, I have to wonder why you're still with that person) then offer a gift. Offer your trust. Let them show you that they can be trusted. Give them the opportunity to show you that they can be trusted again.

If they fuck up, so be it. But if they want it badly enough then they'll show you that they are sincere - and that will allow you to relax, breathe.... and recover.

Just my thought.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:03 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack

Honestly, I know ats is right. I think you need March 7th for validation. Comfort. I’m not so sure March 7th is going to give you what you need.

MC, “Are you going to the conference?”
Wafflegirl, “Yes” or “well I don’t know”
MC, “Humm I think I am going golfing, you enjoy your work.”

Just go have some fun.. throw a few good affirmations her way, stop mentioning her failures and live you life.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 2:25 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LifeisCrazy
Sorry you’re here brother. You just found out. You don’t have to trust right now. I would not. I am going to say something that is going to hurt. It takes about three months for someone to start losing attractions. They might be burying it, they might be ending it.. but believe me, it is like when you quit smoking.. you want one. My wife could not tell me but I knew. She would say, “You don’t understand Dave…” This is going to be a process for you. I have no doubt you are in shock. Open up man.. do you have a trusted friend to vent? I think what you can know is that I have a beautiful relationship right now. And she gave herself to another man for 9 years. How can that be?

Do you want to know how to communicate to your W that she had better be transparent? I don’t have time right now.. it might be a long one with many typos..

Manybrokenpieces... I do believe you are a high quality woman.. Woman knows how to make her man laugh!!! I briefly looked at that blog.. it’s good.

[This message edited by trynhard at 2:27 PM, February 12th (Tuesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 2:47 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I went looking for a Valentine's card at lunch today and just couldn't do it. How can I buy a card for someone that is still carrying on an affair? All of the cards refer to trust, future, one and only, puke, puke. I can't find a card that works, maybe because there isn't one that says cheater, cheater. lol

I thought in a crazy way that it would be fun to buy a card and write on the inside that I know he's a no good rotten cheater and that I know what he's been doing.

I am really frustrated today. I am really getting angry with him for dragging me through the mud and kicking me while he's doing it. I imagine as he's buying me a card that he's buying her one too. He's been really quiet about his trip next week. I honestly believe he will be meeting her. I am pretending I don't know a dang thing and am trying to be a fun and neat person to be around as much as I can.

There wasn't anything on the recording yesterday but it doesn't mean that he isn't emailing her or going somewhere to use a public phone. He is traveling today and tomorrow to areas I know he won't meet her and then he's back for Valentine's so that he can carry on the charade. I am getting real tired of feeling like 2nd choice, I deserve so much better but I am afraid.

If he would go away without a word I think I could do it. I am afraid of fighting with him, I just hate conflict. The worst part is I hate the threats of telling the kids even though I know it must be done.

I am having a little bit of a hard time today with some things. I think some of it is that I'm tired of living a lie. I'm tired of him using me until things fit into his schedule better. I'm tired of being used to "clean" up our finances. I'm tired of being used to paint himself to be a worthy husband and father. I'm just plain tired of this mess. I want to live a life where I'm valued, where I enjoy my life, where I'm not in a fog, where I feel special.

Sorry to be a downer, I'm trying to hold my head up. I have my next counseling session Friday, hopefully she can help me work on finding inner peace. I think it's what I need most.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 3:01 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Per:

Stop chasing your runner. Stop trying harder to fix the M than the person who broke it. Instead, build you own social network. Explore what you are interested in. Take a class, do an activity, volunteer, whatever. I went back to activities I had given up since M.

The problem: the above is what I did during my M. I was in grad school for 5.5 years, played golf every time I wanted, never went to church with her, gave her no love languages, I was completely unattractive using tryn's framework.

Basically, I gave her the 180 during a lot, if not most, of our marriage.

My main fear is that deep down inside of her is a blackness associated with complete hate for me and how I treated her. That she can never forgive me. That I get through all this affair crap and then just reach the end of the line. Maybe I never loved her or I never would have acted the way I did - and since I did not love me how could I love her. I've got issues to be sure. My own FOO issues.

So, for the last 11 months, the M has looked like what she has always wanted. Me too. I had begun to tackle many of my demons in 2011.

But damn!!! the backlog of pain.

After seeing Les Miserables, I asked WW if she identified with Jean Valjean, who hardened his heart against man and God before finding redemption as the narrative progressed. Instead, my WW said she saw herself as Fantine, who sold her body in every way imaginable to support her child. In a way, my WW saw the A as not just a coping mechanism, but a survival method to keep our family together. I told her that she must have really hated me to get into and keep the A. Instead, she said that she loved me, and did not want me to not have my family.

damn!! sad shit.

about March 7: i am going to take it easy with it. I'll go to Mass at 7am anyways, then hit the hills and greens either solo or with a friend if my WW isn't fuly on board.

all this is about my forgiving myself too, my failures in life, not loving myself, not figuring out my shit when younger, my indifference to her. How? my heart is so hard, my false pride so great, my ego so strong....

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 5:06 PM, February 12th (Tuesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
LifeisCrazy
♂ Member
Member # 38287
Default  Posted: 5:20 PM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn -

I mistyped my Dday - it is 14 months ago, 12/5/11 - so I'm a bit further along then my earlier post indicated.

But you are 100% correct in everything you said.

My post about trust is simply for those who are desperately seeking that emotional calmness. I have found that instead of looking for my WW to "prove" her trustworthiness, I needed to give her that gift and hope that she has learned her lesson.

In a relationship that is truly reconciling - one in which the WS has made the fundamental steps toward healing the marriage - then this can make a world of difference.

Again, in a relationship that does not have that commitment, trust - and recovery - are a long way off.


"Pain is temporary. Quitting is forever."

Posts: 127 | Registered: Jan 2013
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:52 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC.
My main fear is that deep down inside of her is a blackness associated with complete hate for me and how I treated her. That she can never forgive me. That I get through all this affair crap and then just reach the end of the line. Maybe I never loved her or I never would have acted the way I did - and since I did not love me how could I love her. I've got issues to be sure. My own FOO issues.

This is why I say you just now become a different person. You become a quality man. You develop into a man who does know how to completely fill every need of a woman. You learn from your past but you do not re-live the past. You live a new today, and whatever the future may bring. This is about YOU. I don’t want to be with a woman who cannot forgive. Why do you?
MC, you and I were much alike. I once picked a business trip over a simple surgery my W had. Pretty bad huh? Just because I could go into this procedure not needing my W, did not mean she could is like me, she is not the same person. She needed me present to boost her confidence, to encourage her, to comfort her, etc.. Yesterday, my W had an important Doctor visit. I was there this time. I am no longer that other man. That is what I am saying to you. Be a different man. It is attractive. Be attractive. That is all you can do today.


she said that she loved me, and did not want me to not have my family.

When a person enters an A, this is the attraction they have to a spouse, not the AP. There are deep emotional connections when you have a child with your spouse. Affairs do not have this connection. It is a bond. A strong reason they cannot leave us. Having children together is the Love of not self seeking. They seek and want to keep this love together, family, togetherness, etc. It is one of the most powerful loves. Children bonds are two becoming one to provide for that child, a piece of YOU, a piece of both of you.


I can move on to another woman who already has a child. Let’s say my child graduates college and her child graduate college. My feelings for my child will be far stronger about this achievement than I will feel for my new woman’s child. The feelings my W and I have for our child will be strong than any other new woman can have for my child, It is a bond and emotional connection we have together that is… love always perseveres… despite anything.


MC.. imagine had during you working toward the good of the M by improving your worth with all your extended education you wife could have realized this. Imagine had your W been healthy herself, knew love, knew how to bring on conflict to communicate effectively, and made sure everything in life she wanted to be happy was fulfilled.


Wafflegirl, “MC, I want you to romance me like when we first met.”
MC, “oh more sex”
Wafflegirl, “No, not sex you needy man, I mean romance me.”
MC, “I am”
Wafflegirl, “I want you to start building me up, I want a man who will say things to me to get me in the mood, I want a man who take his time, tell me romance stories, touch me with soft hands, will sweep me in his arms, throw me down and be passion to me.”
MC, “ok”


Then MC continues his non romantic ways.
If wafflegirl would have slowly added pressure.. over time, making consequences more and more sever, YOU would have changed because I know by reading your post you are not a fool. All the M connections, attractions would have kicked in..


Imagine the end game..


Wafflegirl, “I wanted romance and you choose to not be that man. It is not what I wanted, but I respect your choice. I am not going to live my life without. If you choose not, then I must D and get a new partner who will romance me.”


Your W failed you. She choose to not properly make herself clear as to what she needs to be happy. She didn’t know how to say it. All that was her choice, not having anything to do with YOU.


Your FOO may have been like those on Hardcore Pawn. You might not have known what you were doing along the way. If you did not know what you were doing along the way, how can you make a change? You should not forgive yourself if you continue to be the old you, not change, not change toward the greater good. But it is easy to forgive you for things you did not even realize you were doing.

So, for the last 11 months, the M has looked like what she has always wanted. Me too. I had begun to tackle many of my demons in 2011.

You have no demons. When we first meet our spouses, a romance stage develops. It is natural, normal, part of all of us, we just know how to be attractive. As our relationship develops, we become accustom, comfortable, and our true self comes out. The mask come off. We fart in the presents of our wives, something we never ever did during the romance phase. The relationship falls into disillusionment.

A healthy M has people who can communicate well enough to a point where the bonds, attractions, intimacy.. they both can make it through the misery, to reach a mature love. The demon is to learn to love, seek love, be love, not evil. Mature love is a point where we both train each other to make clear choices to love in a more complete way. Compromises are made, adjustments are made. Both realize that love is far more than one thing. The feelings come from now making sound efforts. And.. we learn to control our emotions, fears, feelings…

But damn!!! the backlog of pain.

Welcome to life. Something that happen to each one of us no matter who you are. You cannot avoid pain. There will be illness, loss, trauma, etc.. It will happen to us all if you live long enough. It might happen many times in life is different ways too. We all get sick and die.

We can choose to look back, bring that pain in our minds, or we can just say, do, live.. Ouch. We dust ourselves off and learn from what happened to us. That is all we can control.

So you can learn now to be a quality man to your W. That is all you can do. A quality man will pardon a W who committed infidelity. No, the pain is likely not even. One’s pain is far different than the other. So what.

A quality man makes a choice not to bring pain on others. Even our spouses. You remind your spouse about cheating, they have bad feelings. You are making a choice to give your W bad feelings. This is why I want you to never again bring up your W’s failings. Should she bring it up.. make her feel good, “It gives me good feelings you are no longer that woman. Thank you for being who you are today”

A quality man can look hard at himself and see he was a Hardcore Pawn man. He makes the choice to change and not be that man. That is all he can do. If your W is not quality herself, she will be unable to get past her own misery. I know you can lead your W into being a quality woman. It is very rare any woman wants to be.. NOT quality. It is also wrong to think, I did everything right in the M. Too think, It was my broken W who was the issue. How you handle a non-quality person is very important to you own happiness.

In the romance phase of all relationships, a natural law happens. The law of reciprocity. If I give that person love, they return it to me. I don’t know why, but we humans just have it in us. Even the most selfish person does it.

Sometimes, a selfish person is so selfish, they chase and chase something they never seem to find. You can balance a selfish person. Pain will balance a person. A conflict causes pain. A healthy person has the ability to knowingly bring on pain for the greater good. The pain they bring is by intent. Since it is a conscious decision, it’s gives that healthy person great inner strength. But the important thing to know is knowing right from wrong. How do we know it if we never learned it? It is an endless search. We know the major wrongs, but the minor ones, many are not given much thought. So we learn to think about them. I choose to give my W words of affirmation everyday.
This is way Gotta must bring on conflict. It is for greater good. Greater good she will bring her H and herself. She must expose to her man his bad behaviors. Her key is to do this in a way that is good for all. Not so easy.

Fear is not healthy. This is why faith is so good to have. We have a higher power that protects us, eliminating the fear. We lay our own lives down because we know we are safe.

You cannot be shamed for who you once were, That was you then. Today is who you are today. Mike Tyson did an interview. For 21 years he claims the sex he had was consensual, not forced rape. He went on to say, that woman who accused him must deal with her own conscience. He says that he needed jail. It was for the greater good. It is what he needed for himself. His addiction was that bad and he would have ended up dead. He found happiness not with money, fame, many woman, etc.. but he found happiness with love. His love for his new family, kids..etc.. You can look at yourself as needing some pain too. You now understand that love is not just a feeling, but a choice. If you choose to love, good feelings always follow.

You can love your W by not hurting her by reminding her of adultery. That is a choice. The pain within you will be there. It is part of you now and who you are. It was to improve the quality you may have already been, but now even better.

What you cannot do is control your W. She can only make her choices based on what you decide to do. All part of an interrelationship. She can have shame, that is her shame. She can have guilt, that is her guilt. You cannot control her feelings. You can be in her presents and not bring those triggers. She can also make a choice not to trigger YOU. But she must know those triggers. A man can deal with triggers on his own. They fade with time.

The hotel my W frequently visited changed brands. The sign changed. That trigger is fading when I pass it. I notice I do see it the same. I have passed it without thought. The green color is no longer green. Many triggers have faded for me over time. They will for you too.

Part of your changing should come something very important to your own good health. It is for the greater good of you and even your M. You must know transform into a man who has this belief.

The new belief is that YOU don’t need your W to be happy. You don’t. You want your M, but you don’t need it. Why? Because there are many high quality woman available to fill all your needs. And all you have to do is make a choice to love any woman the best possible way you know how.. the quality way, learning to fill every need of a woman. You do it with this attitude.. Hey, you want good man or not? Your choice new woman or W. Because if you choose not to love, then I am only going to be with a woman who is healthy and wants that too. I can respect any woman who does not want a partner in life.. have all the F buddies in your life you want. Not me. I want a committed woman. A woman who makes choices to have mature love. If she does not want that, good bye and I hope you the best finding a quality man.

Oh? You want to be a depressed woman? Well guess what? I don’t want a depressed woman.
Oh? You don’t want be nice to me? Guess what? I want a nice woman.
Oh? You want to develop a strong friendship with another man? Guess what? I don’t want a woman like that.
Oh? You want to keep things secret? Guess what? I don’t want a woman who keeps secrets.
Oh? You don’t want to be intimate with me and give me sex? Guess what? I don’t want a woman who does not want to have sex with me.
Oh? You don’t understand my want to have that sex act? Guess what? I don’t want a selfish woman who cannot compromise
Oh? You want to criticize me for doing things different? Guess what? I want a woman who knows things can be done differently.
Oh? You want to demand I do something? Guess what? Nope I am not the pool boy for you to boss around. That is my choice.
That is your firm core values and belief.. but how you communicate is that important too.. do not forget. We cannot possible know what others think. We can only assume.. so we set our fears aside with courage and start with very light pressure (the lighter pressure at first the better) moving slowly toward our core belief. Now that is attractive.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LifeisCrazy
I missed the 14 months too.. Time does make a difference after infidelity.
How does one move forward in a marriage that has been broken and yet be comfortable with the level of trust?

Trust is always a choice. Statistics say, healthy marriages have trust. You get that.
Now don't get me wrong. I keep my eyes open - I will never be fooled again, believe me. I maintain access to her passcodes and phone records. I'm not stupid.

I don’t think I am every naive enough these days to think.. I will never be fooled again. Of course I can be fooled again. You can too. I know you likely did mean to write it that way. If your W wants to cheat, she is going to cheat.
For me, I don’t want my W to cheat, but if she does, I will be OK. For me, I love myself far greater than in my past. Love always protects.
But the day to day trust - "Where are you going?" "Who are you talking to?" "Why did you get home 15 minutes late?" Why did you just close out that email?" - that has to return.

All fair questions in any relationship. But isn’t it far better to have you spouse act trusting without your even having to ask those questions?
Those questions do bring.. an “Oh, so you don’t trust me huh?” Do I want to be tracked, followed, stalked, etc. Nope.

These days, my W has learned on her own to be very transparent. We had help with this by going to Retrouvaille. My W strongly believed I had woman when I traveled. So, if I had them, why couldn’t she have other men too? This was her thoughts going back to when we first M and when I got this traveling job. It’s a whole bunch easier to cross over to evil with that mind set and those thoughts.
Back to loving myself. I love myself to behave in a way that protects me. I’m far more transparent to my W these days. My W knows where I am at. I tell her were I went and who I went to dinner with. I may just text her note affirming her during the day. I tell her about how my day went. I do bring my business situations home and I offer her to share her day. She always tells me who she had lunch with and after hearing who for many times your feelings are protected. I try and word my questions in a way not to be overpowering too direct. I am not naive to know she can make a bad choice and nothing I can do about it. I let her have freedom and the rope is long enough to hang herself, if so, so be it. If my W closes an email quickly in front of me, I know I will apply pressure. Not to who that was.. It’s more like.. Look you can do that all you want, but I am not going to have it. If she is scheduled to be home, and does not show up, she violated my consideration, I just don’t have it. I apply pressure. She is going to call me and let me know she’s running late. If she leaves the room to have a private conversation, she better come back and tell me who.. In fact, I don't care who, it's more about respecting me.. I just won’t have it.

But we both have letters to each other on this. Written at Retrouvaille. She has come to know effort must be taken on her side and I do it too. It is the way it is. This attitude, by taking care of what I do, protects me.

Part of me also is set that I don’t need my wife. She is free to cheat. Have at it. I will find out because you cannot love two people in a complete way at the same time. If you are fully aware, keenly aware, you will sense, gut feel, something is just right. You can bring on discussion and conflict. You can even choose not to trust at that point.

Life.. you sound like you are heading in the right direction. Peace brother.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:01 AM, February 13th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe.
In the local library so gotta be quick.
Logged in to fWH's Linkedin page.....
He's had a reply. "Ditto"
"Ditto"??? WTF???? This the THIRD profile she has set up. She had NO contacts and NO profile details.
Stupid bitch!
fWH hasn't said anything yet. I did ask that he tell me when or if there was a response. She should just crawl back under her rock.

Dashing off, all stressed and very angry. But it's okay. Yes, maybe he has finally grown a backbone.

Hugs to y'all!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 6:19 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello everyone,

I am in a bad place again. I was thinking about writing in the WS forum, but I don’t feel I get enough LTA feedback from BH’s who understand, and I am not allowed to write in the Betrayed Men thread.

So I have been taking Trynhard’s advice about not giving into anything negative that my BH gets into. It was going fairly well for the last three weeks or so. I am trying so hard to keep it light, upbeat and “quality”.

So now Valentine’s day is obviously coming. Just a quick background, it has ALWAYS been a HUGE deal for me. Not that I want diamonds or anything, just something to let me know my BH planned ahead and thought of me. Now I am not crazy, I do realize that this Valentine’s Day is different, as the past 2 have been as well. However even before DDay and all the years before my LTA, my BH hardly ever did anything to make it special for me, it always hurt me a lot. He gave the whole story about “we don’t need a day to say we love each other blah blah blah”. I would tell him it was mushy and romantic to me, but he never responded and my feelings and words never changed his outlook.

So here we are, V Day tomorrow during the work week. We sat at dinner last night with the kids and he mentioned he would be doing a job after his regular work Thursday night (he has his own side business, and he works on his own and can schedule according to his schedule). So I said to the kids, I guess we’ll go to the diner then. He all of a sudden said he would just do the job Friday night.

This morning I got up and sent him a cute little doggie singing e-card, light and airy, just saying enjoy your pre valentine’s day and I love you. My BH has been in his “distant from me mode” all week. I sent him a text also, mentioning a place we used to go for dinner when we first started dating, the cologne he would wear and then going down by the water front afterwards…a little light banter between us to remind him of our foundation as Trynhard has suggested, but BH still distant.

Then I went food shopping, decided I would make him a special steak dinner for tomorrow night, no pressure, no crowds etc, which I told him about by text because he happened to text me while I was at the grocery store…he replied “great”.

Then he texts me later, and I quote “take you out Friday night?”…I could feel my upset already, but just kept it positive and said sure sounds great, made a joke about how that text made me weak in the knees. I already know we can’t go because our DS had baseball Friday night and I know my BH will not find a sitter. We only have my dad to sit, and he won’t on a Friday after he has worked all day.

So he comes home from work, hugs me etc, and goes out to get his stuff ready for his job FOR TOMORROW!!!...He changed it to tomorrow night. I tried not to say too much, tried to be positive, but I was crying on the inside.
Now my positive has gone out the window. I mean I tried to plan to make him nice dinner, nothing crazy, didn’t ask for anything except maybe for him to show up.
So I did say something before we sat down to dinner, he said “what’s the difference”, and I said its Valentine’s Day and it is important to me, he just walked away, and we haven’t said a word to each other since.

I know I don’t have many rights as the WS, but I can’t control my hurt ALL the time. It brought me back to this past Xmas, when us and the kids went shopping for my xmas present on xmas eve, going through the mall in and out of stores. That hurt me too, I don’t like to do that, he knows that and I kept it in for the most part. He has always gotten me a last minute gift on every occasion and he knows I don’t like it. Now he even has our DD wrapping my gifts for me. The best holiday we ever had was our first valentine’s day when we were dating because he got me a little heart necklace, but he gave it to me around a little plush monkey’s neck. And also one Easter he made me my own easter egg hunt, with all little corny clues in each egg and he wound up ending me at an egg with a little ring in it. It has always been about the thought with me. To drag me around on Christmas Eve, I just don’t see the point, but I didn’t want to start an argument so I didn’t say anything. How can he not get it and change after so many years of me saying how I feel even prior to my LTA?

Being on the LTA forum is hard for me. I read Trynhards posts, and MC Jacks posts and other BH’s and read how they too are the BETRAYED HUSBAND, and how they are trying SO hard to be what their wives would find to be quality, and my BH feels as if he won’t change, he never will and I should be happy with what I have, after what I did. It’s just all so very hard. I’m sorry for rambling and I hope I didn’t trigger anyone to much with your own hurts tonight.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 8:16 PM, February 13th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Valentine's Day is tough for all of us on this forum I'm sure. I know I am in tears tonight. I finally found a card that is just optimistic and not mushy, just for "the one I love", not for "my husband". I just couldn't buy that because he isn't fitting into the role of being a quality husband so I thought I do love him so I will just settle for "the one I love" because that part is true.

My dad is in tears realizing he is at the end of his life and I have been spending quite a bit of time just being with him. It is so sad to watch your strong role model fade and wither away. This has been really hard on me and very draining. I wouldn't have it any other way, I won't get this time back and it is just as important to me as it his to him. I will be there for him til the end, crying and holding his hand as he goes.

I am also struggling with my husband. I am really wanting to have a confrontation with him in some ways and sometimes I don't in other ways. Roller coaster or what? I'm getting to a point where I don't want him around sharing in my dad's failings. I don't want my feelings shared with "her" and I feel like they probably are. This is such a personal experience and I'd rather be alone than have it shared with "her". It's hard to explain. I didn't think I'd want to go through this alone but I also realize I kind of am anyway.

He is trying to plan a nice Valentine's and I really am not wanting to carry on the charade but I also don't want to fight either. He said he thought about a movie but he wants to have a date to enjoy his wife and engage each other. If he didn't have his ho on the side I would love his thought here. He is such a fat cake-eater, lol!

We have a special birthday event scheduled for my dad this weekend so my husband's trash isn't anything I want to deal with now.

My counseling appointment got moved to next Tuesday.

I know you are right, Tryinhard, that the only thing that is going to change his behavior is pressure from me. Sometimes the anger burns inside me and then it subsides. I think sometimes I am just too easy, Confrontation is easier to avoid than to go through.

Round and round I go, where I stop, nobody knows!


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
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