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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, February 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a pretty good day so far today. Trying not to focus on my messes. I have just kept busy at work today.

I do think I've stepped it up a bit to him. I think he feels a little bit of me moving away from him and not so dependent on what he thinks and reactive to his demands. I know it's not a lot but I do think it's the baby steps I need to get going in the right direction. I didn't make any phone calls to him, I didn't dwell on any serious subjects too long and I changed the subject on my own a few times. Some of this may be avoidance but usually I pick at him because I want reassurance and I didn't!

This morning things were a little different in my schedule. Usually he calls me as I drive to work. He didn't today. I didn't call him either! He called me a few minutes after I got to work saying he thought with my change in schedule today I wouldn't be able to talk but I still have to drive to work and he could have chatted with me then. I think he was testing to see if I would call him instead, like I usually do. NOPE!

I am not afraid to battle with my kids, or most people. Just him. Maybe it's because I have so much to lose and maybe it's because I'm scared. I like the idea of just giving him choices and letting him make his decisions. I am getting better at walking away and not poking until I hear what I want.

I'm looking at medications to work along with the counseling to help me focus and stop going in so many circles. My mind constantly races. My job is very intense, I can't be unfocused as much as I am. I need my job to afford living on my own, too.

I sometimes wish her husband would figure it out on his own. I think he is wanting to believe her so much that he's ignoring all of the signs. I do think there is some serious attachment to her husband. I believe they have been married around 20 years with 3 kids. She is also coming to the point in her life with kids getting married, grandkids, empty nest, etc. I think she wants this with her husband some but I do think she is also thinking there is a rose garden with my husband. Not sure what she would do for sure if the opportunity was there. I do think the time between her first and 2nd marriage wasn't much. I call her a destroyer. I don't know but I think she destroyed her first marriage and hopped in bed with her second husband and quickly got knocked up. I remind my husband of her morals constantly. There isn't much of a gap between children so I don't think she was divorced all that long. Scares me some. I told him if he ends up with her that she might stay awhle but if there is something more interesting, she would be gone like that. I do think when I called him before it put some pressure on her as to some of her whereabouts, etc. She doesn't have the ease that she used to. So I guess, in a way, she had the opportunity to leave her husband then and didn't so that does say a little something. She must have wanted her marriage a little then.

Loyalty is important to my husband. I know what a crock right now. Anyway, that is something else I point out to him too. She's a royal babe, lying to her husband and family constantly. She is worthless.

Oh well enough rambling, I have to get to lunch. I will chat a little more.

Thanks for all your never ending support. Hanging out here has taken some of the focus away from him!


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 4:46 PM, February 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Terrible news on my dad today. The doctors at Mayo don't believe his chemo is working so they are going to switch his chemo for the next 6 weeks and hope there is improvement. They are reasonably sure he is having tumor re-growth. I had thought I was going to dedicate some of my summer to taking my dad out to visit family and do things he's always wanted to do. The doctor told me today that I had better do those things sooner rather than later. I am so devastated. I am not ready to lose all that I am losing. What will I do without my dad? He has always been there for me in some way. He is the 1 person that has always been there for me through thick and thin.

He is so funny, he always liked selling Sturgis rally shirts with us, it is really, really hard work but it's one of the few times my dad got his daughter back. He always has had a hard time accepting his daughter was a wife and mother and had a hard time sharing her. The rally was his time with me. We worked hard, long hours together. We would sit and chat inbetween, just spending time together.

I'm thankful he took those times to be with me, just me. I didn't realize how important those times would eventually be. I thought it was silly he couldn't share me with my family but bottom line is he missed his daughter. And oh, how I'm going to miss him!

This BS is officially 100% re-shifted in focus. No more wasted time with cheating husband. I have been able to enjoy my dad so far but now I need even more of my time given to him, and my kids. He has her- he doesn't need my time.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
rockbottom2468
♀ Member
Member # 32496
Default  Posted: 12:45 AM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No, rock bottom -limerance DOES go away! It's going away already for your WH!
It's when they begin to see the affair partner without the rose colored glasses on.
They begin to see the reality of what life would be like with the affair partner and in most cases it would NOT be pretty!
If anything your WS is mourning the loss of his fantasy world because he's realizing that life with the 20 yr old screw up will be extremely screwed up for him too.
Be ready ,he may come back to you
Asking forgiveness and wanting to get back together.

Take it slow
Go to IC
If you even consider u
It plan what your conditions would be.

Mine were 100% transparency- I had access to all accounts.
NC with the OW. ( luckily he stopped working there one month before d day
And in my case no more, drinking ever. He wentvAA and got sober and continues to attend meetings weekly 6yrs later.

He has also made tons of other changes
He's much kinder, less selfish

Even if he did (and he hinted at it...that even though he loves OW so deeply, it was a mistake all around), I don't think I could do it. We had false R a long time ago. He took the A underground. Do you want to know part of his reasoning as to why? I showed him Miai's withdrawal survival guide and he realized that he is going to miss OW and that scared him. He will, without a doubt, go through withdrawals and he is not strong enough by any means to stay away. I can't live like that...even if he was strong enough. Seeing him pine after OW after everything he's done to me and the kids? Seeing it while knowing he believes it was a soulmate he gave up? I have no faith he would last...


Me: BS-29
Him: XH-33
Dday: June 2011
Together: 13 years
Children: DD(8), DS (6), DD2 (8 months)
Status: He left for 20yo OW.

"Even on my weakest days,
I get a little bit stronger"


Posts: 1058 | Registered: Jun 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:42 AM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What will I do without my dad? He has always been there for me in some way. He is the 1 person that has always been there for me through thick and thin.

He will always be with you forever.. in your memories. You can always think.. what would dad have done? He is you & you are a piece of him... Nobody can ever take that.. It a beautiful thing.

No more wasted time with cheating husband.

I like it. You have all the proof you need with the VAR.. go pull it. Do not concern yourself anymore.

He may think because your Dad is sick this is the reason you are changing your behavior. Today, jump in that cold water Do it today….. It does not have to be hard. He will “get it.” You don’t argue.. make it very simple.. very plan..

Gotta.. She looks him dead in the eyes… he looks away.. and she lightly touches him.. it is a very awkward moment for both..
Rocky, “what?”
Gotta.. in a very light tone.. “stop it”
Gotta, then grabs her keys to go see dad…
Let the 180 begin…


Gotta, “Look, I’m tired. I can no longer take it. I know for fact what is going on”
Rocky.. “what are you talking about. What proof? You are wrong.”
Gotta.. she gets in her car not looking at him…
Rocky thinks.. she knows.. how did she know? Oh fuck.. what do I do
Let the 180 begin…


Gotta… “You are a rock huh? The kind that is thrown at someone to hurt them? I know the truth now”
Rocky, “what the Fuck are you talking about.. you need to blah blah blah”
Gotta, “don’t even try”

Afterwards, call a GF for her support and what you did.. post here... if you post in General you will get support... we may not be around today.. I will try but plans with my W. Please let us know how it went.

Yesterday.. you did this.. “I didn't make any phone calls to him”. GOOD. Not hard to do now was it? It was easy. 180 – 2. No frequent phone calls.

If you did that, you can also do these… these are all good behaviors to have…
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? For anything! STOP ARGUING.. NO DEBATES, NO DEEP DISCUSSIONS.. YOU DO THIS.. IT WILL LEAD TO MISERY. Don’t do it gotta.. When you feel this coming on.. go visit dad.

IMO.. don’t you dare leave your bed… should he force his way.. let him.
"I don't want you in my bed, my bed for only M people who know how to be caring, giving, loving... those who know fidelity.. Please, go find somewhere else to sleep."

Act as if he is not in it.. NO SEX!! NONE.. he touches you.. “STOP IT” as loud and you can.. his foot touches yours.. “DON”T YOU DARE”

[This message edited by trynhard at 5:53 AM, February 9th (Saturday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rockbottom-

I just noticed that you list him as XH.

Are you divorced?

If not-then it does sound as if you have hit rock bottom and all of it- the LTA and the false R are deal breakers for you.

Enough is enough.

Have you seen an IC? a lawyer?

Do you have family or friends to support you IRL?

And as for any other comments from him? crickets....don't say a word, don't engage.

Just continue with your plan to move forward without him.

He made his choice.

You will survive this.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:13 AM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

rockbottom-

I just noticed that you list him as XH.

Are you divorced?

If not-then it does sound as if you have hit rock bottom and all of it- the LTA and the false R are deal breakers for you.

Enough is enough.

Have you seen an IC? a lawyer?

Do you have family or friends to support you IRL?

And as for any other comments from him? crickets....don't say a word, don't engage.

Just continue with your plan to move forward without him.

He made his choice.

You will survive this.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 11:22 AM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm having a bad today today. So I'm going to dump on everyone here if that's ok.

One year ago today I made a point to go to a charity event with my WW in an effort to support her and show I was interested in what she was interested in.
Of course, it was a quasi religious event.

My triggering is due to the fact that 5 days later she was getting on a plane to go see OM.

I am angry all over again.

I was a good husband. Not great, but damn good enough. I had corrected a lot of my previous shitty behavior.

I am taking it out on my WW today. She is on call today for work so she is stressed. She is an expert avoider and runner. So I know that for today she is thinking again that we weren't meant to be together, blah blah, etc.

Now the other side of me is this neediness. She will be shutting me down. Withdrawing and hiding. I get it. The end result is that I will be feeling bad...even more 'bad' than I do now.

How do I end this cycle?

I now realize now almost 1 year out that a lot of her issues have been rugswept. I think they have all been identified and pondered, but not really faced and dealt with.

Trynhard: how do I use the escalating pressure technique to get her to find, face, and slay her inner demons. Can you provide some of your wonderful imaginary dialogue?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:31 AM, February 9th (Saturday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 4:36 PM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How do I end this cycle?

MC_Jack
So sorry you are having a rough day / weekend. Since your WW has rug swept her issues, it is probably up to you to end the cycle.

So she withdraws and becomes distant. You will never know her thoughts: mission OM or shame / guilt or just a bad weekend with work on call? Maybe a combination.

Use the same approach that you would at any other time to make your time together better.

Best wishes for a better day tomorrow.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, February 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack
I have learned that you can only change your cycle. So how can we do that? When you trigger do you talk to your wife? Is she aware of EXACTLY what is triggering you today? Have you told her as you explained it to us? That you were making SUCH an INCREDIBLE effort for your M a year ago today and it felt like your efforts were for nothing. Have you told her the hurt and that you cant handle her running anymore? I onky say that because from our convos it sounds as if you BOTH are in R.
It is the tag line here that the WS is broken which I am not argueing and am in FULL agreement with . Our (the WSs issues) if not dealt with do manifest in the A. When I was in my LTA I remember SO many loving kind things my BH did...those I embrassed and cherished...however through my brokeness I ran from the issues we had.my weakness broke ME. I was able to feel validated and loved at ALL times in my fantasy land. That is also COMPLETELY on me. It is a sickness but one that shouldnt be a blanket statement for all A's.
You know your wife. You know her FOO. Have you guys talked about what caused her to run from you? You are right she can't keep running....she has to face her issues and then face you...or she will never stop running.
i remember family movies during my A. Xmas morning opening gifts with the kids and I remember not wanting to look in the camera because I knew "I" was being a fraud...but my kids and my BH werent...they were being real and sincere in THEIR moments. I hold those moments close nowand I miss that innocent love that was there from my BH. If only had been healed and whole our entire M"dlife history wouldnt be ruined...and that is ALSO COMPLETELY on me. But I wont run anymore. I will be here in rhe moment with my family for as long as my BH wants me.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:34 AM, February 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC..

RSEB gets it… Oh what a beautiful woman she is becoming. WS are broken? Who isn’t broken then.. we are all broken. RSEB.. she is fixing herself… no different than I fix me.

I have learned that you can only change your cycle.

Oh those nasty triggers. I had a trigger this morning. A once very powerful personal injury lawyer for 10 years was stealing money from trust he set up in settlements. He made fraudulent adjustments to the settlement sheets. In 2009 this man was a Super Lawyer. This is what the cover looks like.. Impressive looking for sure...I don't know the Super Lawyer in this picture but the magazine looks like this.. As I am reading the article in the paper this morning, I think, boy do I want to write the Indy Star, Super Lawyers to let them know how funny it is they give credibility to this “pat on the back” journal. It means nothing. They put men on this list not really knowing who they are.. It is a paid for list anyway. For the Star to even mention this journal is a joke in my mind. I know another man who was just as evil. He trespassed on one marriage ruining it causing pain, and causing great pain to another. See, OM is honored in your great picks of men is an adulterer. My OM, a Super Lawyer, is no different in the pain than was this man who stole money from hurt people, making life even more miserable for them. Can you feel some anger I still have?

MC_Jack.. See it is YOU now who makes a decision. Anger is a feeling. You can choose to let your anger get the best of you, or not. It is your mind, not your W’s. “I am taking it out on my WW today.” So what is attractive about that? It is not. A quality man can take his mind to a better place. He can think of ways to be positive, to overcome his triggers, behave in a way that is attractive.

See, when my W wakes up this morning and starts reading the paper, we are going to talk about the Super Lawyer. I can say things, act in a manor, behave in a manor to connect this Super Lawyer to her former Super Lawyer.. or not. I chose to love my wife. I might say something like… “I wish all men were strong enough in life to be good people.” It will likely be around the time I am loving her with a gift or service.. I cook breakfast. I serve her while she reads the paper, I serve her coffee, I give her a kiss on the lips bad breath and all, I may touch her arm. I may tell her I had a wonderful time last night.. I might tell her I am glad she a woman who works in a way she does not harm her clients like that Super Lawyers..

What I am not going to do is not say anything. What I a not going to do is tell my W, Honey, your OM was a piece of shit too Super Lawyer and all, I feel anger toward him right now. I track him on linkedin. What was broken in you honey? Did you fix it? What can I do to fix you?

Not great, but damn good enough.
Sure you were good enough.. I was. Love is always a choice. Your wife made a choice not in the best interest of the M. In fact, that was the opposite choice. She always had a right to bring on conflict so you would change, if you so decided.. and if you did not change? Only then she makes the ultimatum and asked YOU to change… and guess what? if you don’t change for the good of the M, then even if she files D, YOU were the one who really made the choice to leave the M!

If you were moping around, not being attractive, bringing up her past failings and all.. Who could blame the woman for thinking, saying, she is thinking again that we weren't meant to be together, blah blah, etc.

Remember? Thoughts come before feelings? Why do you think I will I love my w with all those things this morning I mention above? I want good thoughts that lead to good feelings. I am going to control my thoughts and NOT write a letter to the Indy Star or Super Lawyers.

she is thinking again that we weren't meant to be together, blah blah, etc.

First, you cannot know what other people think. Did she say it? I assume so…

Wife, “I just think we are not meant to be together,,,”
MC, “Of course we are meant to be together. Sure, we can both choose to be with other people. The grass always is greener on the other side until you get to the other side. That grass must be watered and cut. If one of us, or both, stop watering and cutting our grass, it will turn brown. You go to the other side with the same kind of work ethic, it will turn brown too. Honey, nobody said relationships were easy.
MC.. “I am going work harder to be a new man in our M to the point I am kind, caring, giving, intimate, and romantic. That is what I want and I expect you to make the same effort.” Now you go and softly touch her arm as you glide by her.. I am thankful for YOU. You are a good woman for enduring the stress of being on call. I admire that about you.

Build her up.. stop tearing her down. You can build her up. It is not hard.

slay her inner demons
MC.. this is not up to you to do anything to fix. She must fix herself and nothing you can do to fix it. My strong advice, STOP trying to fix her. Fix yourself!

I think the more important issue for you to work on is how she treats you?
What bad behaviors does she do right now? Pick the worst and lets go at that one first.

My wife romances me
My wife says words that build me up
My wife give me positive affirmation
My wife is thankful for the things I do
My wife has sex with me on her own free will and never gives me maintenance sex.
My wife enjoys sex with me and makes a point to get into it every time
My wife does not trade sex for gifts
My wife is adventurous in with sex.
My wife services me by doing her fair share
My wife works hard to build our wealth
My wife holds my hand and kisses me often
My wife never criticizes me, she only tells me what she wants.
My wife corrects my bad behaviors in a loving way.. “I don’t want you to do that”
My wife gives me gifts like new cloths
My wife cooks for me
My wife let me enjoy the things I enjoy
My wife lets me be a man, she does not do those things a man must do
My wife care for my kids in a good way
My wife forgives me when I screw up
My wife is completely open to me when she makes a mistake
My wife has her own things she enjoys and I am not to interfere
My wife does not waste money on selfish things
My wife defends me when I am attacked
My wife will take care of our property
My wife is on time and does what she says she is going to do
My wife believes in God
My wife bring new adventures into my life
My wife is nice
My wife will tell me things in a different way to affirm me
My wife encourages me when I am down
My wife is positive to the best of her ability
My wife does not complain or nag. She tells me what she wants.
My wife visions a good future with US.
My wife does community service
My wife communicate her values to me
My wife makes me laugh
My wife is unashamed to tell me what she wants.
My wife looks up to me because I earned it.
My wife matches our hours together
My wife takes the time just to talk everyday.
My wife is real and genuine, not fake in any way.
My wife does not focus on any other man when I am in the room.
My wife avoid all male relationships outside work unless I am completely Ok with it.
My wife entertains me with different things.
My wife will live her life in fidelity.
My wife keeps no records of wrongs
My wife is kind to other people
My wife Compromises with the things I want.
My wife... on and on...
So.. if you can give me what behaviors she is not doing to be a quality woman.. then I can help you with some suggestions.

But for now.. YOU must work on yourself. Be attractive. When you discover this truth, she will cling to you and never risk losing you.

[This message edited by trynhard at 6:50 AM, February 10th (Sunday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 10:05 AM, February 10th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I still have a few days to change my mind but doubt I will. Success, diaster, or somewhere in between. I will keep you posted.

Regarding Valentines Day surprise trip and when did your S come out of the fog.

First, I am having a GREAT weekend with my W!!!

Now, Valentines Day and its ironeies. Canceling the trip. Turns out DD has a meet and greet at the university I attended and W and I are taking her.

Now, on to the ironies and when did your S come out of the fog. I will use this week to illustrate.

Fri-Sun: W returned from her vacation. Mainly catching up and getting back on routine. On her vacation, W just relaxed and enjoyed the monment. No relfection on M. Her GF tried to talk to her about our M and wife blew her off, just wanted to relax. GF recommended she read Five Languages of Love (W had previously blown me off on this one). So, low key return.

Mon: W had IC session followed by a 3+ hour wait at DPS for DS to get Learners Permit for driving. W had also scheduled a lesson for DS that eve and it began to look like we would not finish at DPS in time. W was tense, angry and says "it is not fair to cancel the lesson this late". I wait for further information - that's it. So I start to ask, what do you want to do. We fought. I felt anger from her for a situation I did not cause and warmth from her was non existent.

Tue: I brought the argument up to explain how I felt when I saw anger in her face and she did not express anything but that. W reply "So you do not like my personality!" Uh oh.
Wed: Cold, very cold.
Thurs: I ask what's on her mind and we go out. "Overall, content and happy in a broad sense. Indifferent to me." As I nudge for expectations, it moves to "I have always been unhappy in our M. It was a mistake to marry you. We are done." Now, my mistake - "maybe you have never come to terms with your A and it is affecting your being able to deal with me in a loving way".

So, now to the irony and the fog:
Fri: I come home from work, kiss my W, kiss her neck and say "I am excited about my 1% chance (at saving our M)". W smiles "I am glad you are optimistic".

Irony:Thursday evening, I hear her, we were done, and I told her about the Valentines day trip and asked if she wanted to go as a blow out, go with a GF, or should I just decide. "I was checking other flight reservations for spring break, saw your name / reservations, and forgot to ask you about it" IMO, she was pissed because she thought I was making plans without her.

The fog: IMO, W is unable to face the raw ugliness of her choices regarding the A and her self protection is the mantra that "I have always been unhappy in the M".

She is making progress in IC in other areas than our M and I will encourage her to contine IC. At this point, I will work on moving past all the A issues without her direct support and focus on the good things in our M today.

As an aside, it seems that she has gotten angrier at me over the past two months as I have become more cheerful, more affectionate, and more supportive.

My W is a wonderful woman in so many ways. My W made horric choices. And I am choosing to live in the present, not the past.

My W and I had a great weekend. Working together, supportive, and affectionate.

"Life is Beautiful". Check out the film with the same title.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 5:53 AM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

H&C..
The fog: IMO, W is unable to face the raw ugliness of her choices regarding the A and her self protection is the mantra that "I have always been unhappy in the M".

To me, the fog is a person who has deep feelings for another person they are not married. They are confused as to what direction they should take in life. I want to stay for my family, but I also want this attraction.

Tue: I brought the argument up to explain how I felt when I saw anger in her face and she did not express anything but that. W reply "So you do not like my personality!" Uh oh.

Humm… Why did you bring up how you felt when you saw anger in her face? See what that got ya? Remember when I said how you communicate is that important? It is.

Imagine this.. I keep my feelings to myself about how “I feel” when seeing anger in my W’s face. I go up to her and I take my hands and rub her neck. I invite her to share her anger.. I invite. “honey, I sense you are not having good feelings. If there is anything I can do just let me know.” Then let it go.. that is all you can do.

Thurs: I ask what's on her mind and we go out. "Overall, content and happy in a broad sense. Indifferent to me." As I nudge for expectations, it moves to "I have always been unhappy in our M. It was a mistake to marry you. We are done." Now, my mistake - "maybe you have never come to terms with your A and it is affecting your being able to deal with me in a loving way".

Wow.. that seems pretty ugly to me… This kinda stuff.. yes you are heading for a D.

H&C.. for a long time, I did things I can look at today. It is a miracle my W didn’t leave me. Maybe you have never come to terms about your W’s A? Maybe it is affecting the way you love your W?

What has really worked for me was to learn to be a man that knows both, emotionally and psychologically, what a woman's needs are… and then become the kind of man who executes those needs.

A strong man does not demand things be laid in his lap. Be that man.

If I were you, I would quit any asking of how she feels. It’s obvious, she hates herself and her life. Don’t ever again make her go there. Direct her mind away from those things.

Good things will come if you focus on these two things:
1. I am committed to becoming the kind of husband who understands and meets his wife's needs because that is the kind of man that I am.
2. I am committed to becoming the kind of husband who thinks, behaves, and executes as a MAN who is attractive and appealing to a woman.

A key part of your own attitude.. you INVITE your wife to join you and be a part of the wonderful marriage and future you are going to have. It will then be her choice to join you or not.

Stop caring about the progress she makes at IC. Stop trying to fix her. All you should be concerned about is mostly controlling your own bad behaviors. Stop taking her back to the A. Start supporting her when you sense she feels bad.. by inviting her to share.. you are willing to just listen.. no advice.. just listen.. just affirm that whatever her problem is that she is a smart, level headed, good woman who will figure it out.

So.. You think my W doesn’t behave badly? Think again. I will share the new me these days, it is apart of me now.. I can do it pretty easy after about 8 months of getting good at it. This is about the love of service. Yesterday, I cooked breakfast, I helped a friend move a piece of furniture, I worked out, I chopped celery my W needed for dinner, I put away 3 loads of laundry, I moved laundry from one to another, I emptied all the trash, I helped my son fix a broken brake line… Then I am relaxing.. My W say,

W demands, “Get in here and fix the garlic Bread, I ‘m done”
Tryn, “no”
W, “I did this I did that blah blah blah”
Tryn, “I did my fair share around the house too, now you can ask me to fix the garlic bread. I try hard never telling you to do, "this or that" and I want you to invite me, not demand me.”
W, very long sarcastic response. Smart ass will you please blah blah blah…
Tryn, (I don't give a shit about that kind of response... I do not get rattled) “If you ask me, I might fix it, but do not demand it.”
W, then she got it.. In front of my 20 year old DD so she can see how I treated my w. My wife then calmly said, (Unhappy about it) Will you please fix…”
Tryn, “I fixed it”

Later, after dinner I build her up because it was all very good. Did it with a kiss and thankyou. In front of my DD.

Later while watching the Grammy’s, kids not in the room, my wife, says.. “Dave, Will you please open a bottle of wine?” An invite. If she wants my help, she had better invite. I am not her man slave. It is polite, caring, to invite, not demand and be a slave driver. One day, I may not be in the mood, busy or whatever. And I give her the same in reciprocity.

H&C.. last week my W gave the ole. After I put her in some pressure over something that was not right they way I was treated, she said, "I am such a bad wife.. ". I looked at her and said, "You didn't get that from me because I think you are a good wife." and walked up, gave her a quick hug.. went about my business.

See, my little princess bitch can get in these modes, moods, maybe something I do or not do.. I don't care. I know she knew exactly she screwed up. She goes on to beat herself down herself to get my, attention, my affirmation. She is going to talk to me about it on her own, in a good way, about my bad behavior ot not.. She is not going to give me this poor me treatment.. In this case, I was on the right side and know, was certain about it.. She was on the wrong side of the behavoir if she knew it or not.. But she sure opened up to me about what problem she had.. I understood it. I can share the story it is about sex if anyone wants to hear it.

Woman need #1287... A woman does not repect a man she can boss around.

Woman need # 13.. A woman needs a man who is positive

Woman need #3.. A woman does not need to be reminded of her past failing.

Woman need # 1065.. A woman does not want to hear, nor want to know all her man's bad feelings.

Woman need #1876.. A woman occasionally needs to watch a good movie with her man.

One thing I know about all marriages.. It ain't over until it is over.. Now you have a choice H&C.. you can dust yourself off, start getting what you want or not. Do you want this M or not? You can only control your behaviors. That's it.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:47 AM, February 11th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:30 AM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know
I hope you had a good weekend... It is ok if you didn't confront and just started the 180.. it is also OK if you changed your mind about when you want to start...

Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 10:09 AM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys,

Weekends are hard for me to post because we are usually busy and he watches what I do on the computer. This weekend my adult daughter was home to play in a soccer tournament and we were selling t-shirts at a wrestling tournament! Busy! It als gives me a chance to stash money for my escape!

I spent the night with my dad Saturday so my mom could have a break. He is failing miserably. New chemo today so let's all hope it helps relieve some of his symptoms! I need my true rock!

I felt pretty distant with my husband. Through my recording device I can hear him talking to his ho pretty regularly. Tells her he loves her and very involved in each other's schedules and lives. I am definitely the outsider in this triangle.

There is no good time to have the confrontation but I think I need to do it and have it overwith. I always thought after the trip would be a good time but the more I think about it, I don't think so. I don't think I want to go with a man who would rather be with someone else. I wanted that trip to be special, like a honeymoon and I know it can't be.

We are going together for an out of town shirt event in 2 weeks. I think I am going to do it then. I want to see what kind of lies he will pull out of his ass for Valentine's and then I think he is going to meet his ho sometime the week of the 18th which will definitely push up the confrontation because I've decided I am going there to confront if I suspect they are meeting.

I am constantly amazed at how he is either lying through his teeth to me or is compartmentalizing his feelings for each us. How he can say he loves me, seem interested in me, be affectionate, on and on and then when I'm out of sight, he's back to her. I will never understand it. I think I've given him plenty of opportunities to go but he never does. How can he carry on saying he wants to go forward in the marriage when he's got her? This has been the most confusing thing for me. I just don't know how he can carry on with 2 women the way he does. It's really, finally, making me mad.

I'm beginning to look at this as I've already lost him, what does it hurt to have a confrontation? He's already running to her every time I turn my back. The only thing that will change is he will be able to do it freely.

I know you are right about loving 2 people. You can't love 2 people the way you should when you are married. I feel "holes" all the time. He isn't there for me in the ways a husband should be. Honestly, I am also feeling like one of other supporters. She lost her mom to cancer and he wouldn't even go to the hospital with her. My husband hasn't done that yet.

I feel betrayed in so many ways. I know having sex is a big betrayal but that doesn't bother me near as much as the emotional betrayal. I feel like all of my deepest and darkest feelings about my dad, the affair, my personal struggles all have been shared with her and I am very resentful of that. It is the very root of intimacy in marriage to be able to share with your spouse. I feel like my feelings have been posted for her.

I'm finding my strength and realizing I don't want a heavy bag to drag through life. I've got so much on my plate and I'd rather face it alone than drag him along.

I'm getting there, guys!


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 12:09 PM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn, h&c, RSEB,

Thanks for the input.

I remained in a funk, a dark place all day on Sat. Yep, moping, not being attractive. Saturday night, I got outwardly angry, said two very harsh things to her. Then left the room as she said 'no' to the interaction.

I returned later to just listen. She had a prayer book out. She suggested that I can ask all the questions I want, over and over again ("why..."), but that I will never be satisfied with the answers. The answer can only come from within myself through prayer.

As I went to bed I wept over my suggestion on Wed. last week to her to renew our wedding vows on March 7. That day is of special meaning to me, to us. It was when we got engaged. It was when she finally gave herself to me completely last year, in HB, 2 days after d-day.

I wept, because on Wed., prior to my letting her know what I was thinking for March 7, she scheduled a robotic surgery case for that day. She had no plans in mind to commemorate that day. Plus, it was robotic surgery conferences that were the destination points for her and the OM.

Yesterday, she told me she can not handle my roller coaster. The highs of Wed. in my thinking about making March 7 special then Sat. night when I give her more anger and "whys". That I can not take my anger to her. Sure I can have it, but she will not face it. I have to go somewhere else. So, maybe I just need to write a letter or letters. No 'tone' to get in the way. She loves to run. I am tired of the chase.

I am frustrated.

Tryn, I will look at your checklist today. I think my WW scores well on many of these. Anything that does not involve deep introspection or tenderness.

I need tenderness. I want, crave, deep conversation. It's all surface to her.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:24 PM, February 11th (Monday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, February 11th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack,

You wrote:

Yesterday, she told me she can not handle my roller coaster. The highs of Wed. in my thinking about making March 7 special then Sat. night when I give her more anger and "whys". That I can not take my anger to her. Sure I can have it, but she will not face it. I have to go somewhere else.

Now, trust me, I can completely relate to your FWW's feelings about how hard it is to see my BH on the rollercoaster, that is what brings me here to SI daily, especially to the LTA forum, so I can gain perspective and words of advice, which have saved me from my initial urge to put up my defenses and try to hide. And I have news for you, we are THREE years out and that rollercoaster is still in our front yard.
I find it incredibly hurtful for your FWW to say those words to you, especially considering you are only a year out and apparently your 1 year antiversaery of your DDay is quickly approaching. You must be triggering like crazy.
Let me tell you a little more about me...and am not saying I am any more right or wrong because I don't believe my BH is any more healed at 3 years out then you are at one year.
Right after the entire truth came out in April of 2010, I was relieved. I could face our future with a clean slate, hell I was excited, enthused. However I didn't have a game plan and I quickly learned that my BH was not in the same mind frame. My BH’s world was blown apart and I took it upon myself to think I could heal him with my enthusiasm and love for him. I tried to think 10 steps ahead from the minute I woke up in the morning, tried to detour my BH around any triggers he may have.
Our wedding anniversary was in June, so for that first June 2 months after Dday, I planned a secret vow renewal ceremony for just us and our children. I planned it on our exact anniversary date, which happened to fall on the same day of the week when we got married years before. I even had it at 3pm, which was the same time as our wedding. So I took my BH out to a beautiful romantic dinner the night before, which we never do without our kids in tow. It was then that I gave my BH an and I gave him a “wedding invitation” inviting him to our renewal ceremony along with an inscribed pocket watch which had our initials on it and the words “till the end of time” engraved on it. He was very happy about my surprise, but looking back now and what I have learned about R, I do not know how he made it through.
In my mind, I wanted to give my BH some good memories of our anniversary date in our future years, I was hoping to take away some of the bad memories. So that is what I have been doing for the past three years, trying to cushion and protect my BH from EVERYTHING, but in the past two months I realized that I cannot do that for him, he has to learn his own coping mechanisms because I can’t be there 24/7 and a trigger WILL happen, and he has to learn how to power through it. But I too have felt the hurt of the sudden ups and then within two seconds a very low down will pop up. As much as the WS brought this all about, it still doesn’t turn us into robots without feelings. Once that fog lifts it is amazing, the clarity that came with it for me is indescribable, which I guess it what makes it unbelievable for my BH. But it is nearly impossible to navigate and the guilt and hurt the rollercoaster brings about was heart shredding for me.
What I have learned is that the one lesson in R, is that it involves two people; however after such a world shattering realization as an LTA, it is very hard to get those two people on the same team. The team the BS thinks you once were is gone and in order to have a good team the first element is trust. I have read so many stories with the BS and the WS navigating through R, but the problem is that the two are not in the same car following the same map. How do you read that map? I think it is about taking turns, but always staying on the same route and in the same car.
I have told my BH when I am feeling very low and while I am crying uncontrollably. I have told him all I want is for him to be happy and sometimes it feels like that involves me letting him go. I have told him that it would be easier for me to hide and walk away, not to have to face HIS sadness and what I have done to him and our family EVERY SINGLE day. And I admire him SO much for the fact that he is choosing to stay. I admire that he can tell me that there has never been a day that he stopped loving me, including DDay. Yes he has told me different when he is angry, but when he is “with me” and we are being genuine, he loves me, and I know that with EVERY fiber of my being. It is a hard pill to swallow that I NEVER felt that complete love from him before. For me before, 24/7 validation equaled love to me, now on my road I have learned love and constant validation are not the same thing. My validation has to come from within me, not my BH or anyone else. My validation IS NOT my BH’s job that is a job he would fail at, anyone would.
Your FWW should not be so negative toward your feelings, as I said you are barely at one year. I wonder if she realizes how much you are struggling every single day. Yes it is hard as a WW to TRULY look at ourselves and realize what we were during our A’s. Is your WW avoiding by throwing herself into her work? I feel it is her duty to take some time, especially now at your one year mark to be there for you, to let your heart feel safe going forward.
My thoughts are with you MC Jack. Please try not to give into your anger. Anger is only your fear coming out. Do you have an IC, try and set up a weekly appointment with him or her. You need to work through your hurt and anger for yourself, regardless of what your WW is or isn’t doing for you.

(((HUGS)))

RSEB


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 4:15 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe
I don’t have time to read (and this forum has been VERY busy and chatty lately!) but just want to put something out there to the ones who are familiar with me.

Mr UKg finally sent MOW a message:
“Stay away from my Linkedin page. Stay away from my life.”

She has been back sticking her name on his “who’s viewed your profile” page and he told me about it last night (I already knew, of course). It took three attempts to send it, but it went in the end.

He has promised to tell me if there is any come back. She is inclined to sit on things for a while and then respond when she’s had a few drinks. I wonder if she’s back to remind him of VDay, some special anniversary for them that he claims to not remember(!!!).

But I wont be here – I hate VDay that much that I am going to stay with my friend who lives on the coast until the weekend. I’m unlikely to drop in to SI as I won’t have my own laptop with me. But I wish you all the Valentines Day you wish for yourself.

Hugs and logging out for now. (((((Tribe)))))


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 5:04 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi UK

Great news honey.

A tiny itsy bitsy bit of him waking up? He sure has taken his time - but WOW - good to finally see of a glimmer of sanity from him.

HUGS

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 6:29 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC_Jack

You are still deeply hurt. At a year out, I was too. I was still hurt at 2 years. Your good is ahead of you.

I want to tell you this is about YOU.

Fighting off the pain? There is just not an easy fix. I wish I could tell you there was. All I can tell you is that you must start doing things you enjoy. I joined both a bowling and golf league. I signed up to run half marathons the training for it was every other day. I started to call my parents a couple times a week. I would go buy food and bring it to the food shelter. I met my friends for drinks and conversation. I bought a camera and just went out and took picture. I learned how to use Photoshop. At work, I joined the board of an association. I was elected to the homeowners association. You start giving back to others and do a charity.

I need tenderness. I want, crave, deep conversation. It's all surface to her.

You want those things? I am going to tell you how to get them.

- You must have an attitude life ahead of you is going to be far better. It will.
- Stop trying to fix your wife.
- Speak Only of what You Want.
- Lead your wife to good.
- Do not hide your needs, communicate them.
- Reward you wife with what she wants.
- Invite your wife into your world. Allow her to make the choice.
- impeccable integrity
- Do NOT try to get validation of your attractiveness, worth, or value from your wife. That is a weak man. It’s easy to be a strong man.

MC.. I want you to get to my reality today. I don’t need my wife. There are hundreds of matches for me. There are things that would not be happy if we split, but I would make them up with new things.

Lets work on…

Do NOT try to get validation of your attractiveness, worth, or value from your wife. That is a weak man. It’s easy to be a strong man and You have this within you.

Stop initiation of all sex. Stop being this needy man who needs sex. Yes, you have a need and it is like food, not dependant on life but you are dependant on it. Take care of yourself and do not be ashamed of it. You don’t need you wife to satisfy your sex needs. You are going to let her initiate it next time. She is going to be attracted to YOU.

But you are going to do a few things. You are going start builder her up some. You must get creative. She is going to want you. If not, you don’t care. Power in any relationship is the one who cares less. She might care less than you right now, who knows? You cannot possibly get in her head. Oh but she wants you despite her thinking she might not or even you thinking she doesn’t. She wants your sex. All I know, is you are going to care less. Women want what they cannot have. So, stop being so easy to get. When you initiate, that is easy for her. She is going to need to work to enjoy your sex.

Ok.. when she hints, give the slightest advance, never reject that hint.
But you make it clear, oh, “YOU want me huh?” let her say yes. If she says, no, then say.. OK. Don’t push her.. If you are bold enough.. in a couple weeks, you can say.. I am going to have some private time. A man has needs.

Along the way, you are going to try a few things..

Build her up with words of affirmation. They must be different, you must mix it up. Make them short…
“I like what you are wearing” matter of fact, go about your day.
“your nail color makes me kind wild in my thoughts”
“I like the way you smell”
Go think of about 50 different words of affirmation. You are going to start making those comments everyday at the right time. If not work them in the next day.

How will she react? YOU DON”T GIVE A SHIT.. You don’t care how she reacts. The new you is going to be this man. You are going to build your W up with good words because that is going to be the NEW YOU. And if she doesn’t want these words? Tough, the new YOU gives these to the woman he chooses to be with.

Now look, this is going to be a 3 -4 week process.

Ok something else you are going to do. You are going to make an effort to forgive. What that effort will be is to not ever again mention her A to her. Her behaviors are totally separate. They have nothing to do with the A. You are not even going to send her body language about her A. This is a choice by you. You are not ignoring it, it happened. Nothing you can do to change yesterday. You are living for today. You feel something bad about the A, a trigger, whatever, YOU keep it to yourself. You change that trigger and focus on the kids.

You are not rug sweeping this A. Forgiving is a choice by you. Nobody wants to be reminded of how they fucked up. It is a human need. It is a given with all people.

I am glad you can look hard at yourself. Yes, I made some mistakes. I will fix those mistakes I made and never do them again. YOU stop caring about the mistakes you made. We all make them. The consequences of your mistakes never justify any one else misbehaving. A good attractive person who is trespassed on will not act in a bad way too. But this is life, our society. People seek revenge, people get even, people hide, and people avoid pain by trying to seek happiness in the wrong way. FACT is what that is…

You work on those couple things in the next few weeks. They are simple, they are easy.. You give words of affirmation, you let your W initiate sex, you don’t care how she reacts, you stop mentioning the A in all manors. And go join something!

Let me know how you progress.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:49 AM, February 12th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgirl:

Mr UKg finally sent MOW a message:
“Stay away from my Linkedin page. Stay away from my life.”

Do his shirts still fit with the new backbone in place?

Tryn wrote:

I want you to get to my reality today. I don’t need my wife.

This was the beginning of the new beginning and healing for me.

MC_Jack, focus on your life and your healing.

I want, crave, deep conversation.

Can you cultivate friends for this, find a discussion group?

So what are YOU going to do March 7 to take the day while she is robo-cutting?

Build your social life without her, become the interesting Dos Equis drinking man you want to be, work through your feelings.... and only then decide if you want her as your W or not, and if you do still want her, what you need from her to stay together.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:50 AM, February 12th (Tuesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

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