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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:35 PM, February 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am glad to see that everyone showed up on their high horse to answer tryn's question.

Perhaps to rephrase it, would all of you be willing to bet the lives of your children on whether you would resist such temptation. Add in a sprinkling of desperation.

I wouldn't make such a bet. Yeah, I am quite sure that I would not do it. I've passed up similar stuff while single. BUT, am I so sure that I would put the lives of my children at stake. Is my self-pride that strong? It is pride we are talking about after all. I remember as a child seeing pride being shown on the stained glass between greed and lust.

Now, time to go back to punishing my WW for being evil, or something like that.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:41 PM, February 3rd (Sunday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, February 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't feel like anyone came in on a horse, MC_Jack, let alone a high one. The only correct answer to tryn's question is "Yes, I would cheat" , according to...... you? I didn't see where any of our children's lives were at stake in this scenario, either. Doesn't matter though.

My point is, my FWH believed 100% that I wouldn't find out. Many, many WS's believe that and count on it. I have been hit on whilst married and there is no way my FWH would have found out (I believe it was 100% guarantee) unless I told him. I didn't do it. Because even though he wouldn't find out, I would know what I did to him. I couldn't do that to him, I couldn't live with myself.

Has there ever been an opportunity for you to cheat, MC_Jack, and you passed it up? Why did you pass it up if you did?


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8976 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:37 PM, February 3rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Incorrect sister.

The only correct answer to tryn's question is:

yes, I might cheat.

That is the humble answer. And I think tryn's point is that it is from this place of humility that compassion for the WS comes and forgiveness follows.

congrats ravens fans!


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
SisterMilkshake
♀ Member
Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 12:07 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

And I think tryn's point is that it is from this place of humility that compassion for the WS comes and forgiveness follows.

Oh, I see, so I didn't pass the humility test. *shrug* Well, I am proud that I didn't give into temptation and cheat when the opportunity arose. Yes, I might have, but I didn't.

On d-day, when my FWH finally admitted to his infidelity, I was the one who was comforting my FWH on d-day. I forgave him on d-day. (for being human, the forgiveness of the actual infidelity, I have found, is a process, ongoing) Despite my prideful nature, I feel I do just fine in the compassion for and forgiveness of my FWH.

Perhaps to rephrase it, would all of you be willing to bet the lives of
your children on whether you would resist such temptation
Yes, if that was the choice upfront, that is so easy. If my kids lives were on the line, it would be even easier to resist any temptation.

eta: I will say that it is true that you never really know what you will do when presented with any given situation, however, based on past experience, I feel I can say, I wouldn't cheat. That doesn't make me a "bad" (i.e. not humble) person. There is nothing wrong in having pride in oneself, it is only in excess that pride is "sinful".


[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:35 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8976 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 3:15 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Hi Gotta,

I'm a very rare visitor here, but I just read your story quickly, and while I think Tryin has some amazing insights, I'm going to respectfully disagree with his advice here. I don't know all the answers, for certain, but I'm nearly 7 years out, and don't see any way that this strategy will do anything except help your H be comfortable while he cake eats.

I won't say all, but in my experience most, participants in LTAs are either conflict avoiders and/or have passive aggressive tendencies. Non-confrontation just plays into that dynamic and allows them to continue both lives without ever having to leave their comfort zone. I can already see signs that your H is trying to make you uncomfortable with conflict--he's the one exerting the gentle pressure and manipulation, and it's aimed at getting you to help him stay comfortable. It seems to me that he's already swaying the dynamic to making you feel bad if/when you don't play nice.

It seems to me that there is a middle ground between loving your H out of his A and the 180. And to my mind, that middle ground is drawing boundaries of acceptable behaviour around yourself, deciding what you will and won't tolerate, and expressing those boundaries clearly and calmly (or as calmly as possible) to your H.

You can't love him out of his affair and you may not feel comfortable 180ing him out, but you can decide that YOU are worth respect and a monogamous marriage and open and honest communication. And you can tell your H that those are the things you need and expect and that he needs to find a way to provide them or he's not worthy of you.

I am going to try being the best wife I can be until after the trip. I am going to give him every opportunity to see what he has right here in his own home. He has a loving wife, children, home, and a lifestyle I believe he thinks is pretty important. I think by me doing what's right and giving him the opportunities to see that I am a good wife worthy of him being honest with that I will, in the end, believe I am the best wife ever and if he doesn't choose me it's his loss. I won't have the feelings that I should have done this and should have done that. I will be able to walk away with my head held high and he can have her. I will have done everything I can control, he has to do his part.

I think you are in the "my world has just been blown apart and I will do anything to keep it from coming apart more" phase. It's the bargaining stage, and believe me, we've all been there. The problem I see with this strategy is that it keeps you there, instead of giving you the tools to move on to the next stage - your progress will be dependent on his progress, not your own. If this strategy works *in the long term*, I will be shocked. I will be happy for you, but shocked. I'm not on SI every day or even every month these days, but I don't know that I've ever seen a successful R where this was the strategy used. I would say that 99% of successful reconciliations happen when the BS summons a strength they do not feel (no one does at the time), and draw their boundaries.

Good luck, I will be rooting for you either way, and (((hugs))).


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
brooke4
♀ Member
Member # 13581
Default  Posted: 3:23 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As for Tryn's scenario - I don't believe I would cheat. I've certainly turned down opportunities where it was pretty much guaranteed that no one would find out (although that's what my H thought too).

I'm not religious, so it's an internal moral compass issue for me. The deciding factor for me was always that *I* would know, and that I make a choice that it's not something I could live with. But I do think that decision requires living your life in a conscious, examined way that many WS's either can't or don't know how to do.

But I also believe that all humans are fallible, so I would pretty much resist categorically stating anything (not necessary to throw the lives of my children in here ).

And I do believe that this belief helped enabled me to forgive my H (although it took one hell of a long time ).

[This message edited by brooke4 at 3:24 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


Me: BS, 40, Him: WS 41
Married: 15 years
3 children
D-Day: 10/2005

Posts: 1483 | Registered: Feb 2007
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 6:20 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not a big fan of hypotheticals. They remind me of Econ class -- "imagine a world where the only goods sold are tables and chairs."

Thanks for the Superbowl congrats!

Gotta2know -- a good skill to cultivate is self-compassion. I know it's been good for me. I look back at my behavior and cringe. By Dday my WH had no redeeming features at all. Why did I want to stay? Because he'd torn me down so low.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gosh damn it! I found a note on my husband's computer that he used to have a conversation with her (I heard bits and pieces of it in my recording). Anyway, it sounds like he has plans to leave me in 1 1/2 years. He wants to get his finances in order and get me in a better spot emotionally. Her youngest child graduates about then. He talks to her about moving to her state. In his sick mind he thinks playing nice with me gets me in a better spot emotionally to leave me? WTF? It sounds like he just wants to build me up to tear me back down again.

This morning, without mentioning the note I found I offered to him that I would be ok if he wants to leave. I told him I know he has unsettled feelings for her and that I think he needs to go and see what it's all about. Of course his response to that is meanness to me, on the defense.

He says he's tried all he can try and that I just can't get past it, etc. Puts all of the blame on me and turns a cold shoulder to me.

I guess now I know why he's with me- money and timing. I don't think there is anything I can do anymore to save my marriage, it's over.

He is so psychotic to me. How can he think it's right to build me up for a year and a half just to tear me back down again? Does he really think that is ok? How does he think he can share 2 women this long? I guess he's already done it for 2 years, what's another 1 1/2 years?

I am absolutely miserable. I guess I need to have the confrontation and end the misery. I don't see any other way to go about it. I know this is the end of my marriage and it really has been over for 2 years anyway. He is nothing but a 2 faced liar.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know
What was the date on the note?

Hey brooke4

don't see any way that this strategy will do anything except help your H be comfortable while he cake eats.

I like this a I do believe it..
I would say that 99% of successful reconciliations happen when the BS summons a strength they do not feel (no one does at the time), and draw their boundaries.

The thing I am trying to explain is a method of communication, You don’t have to go straight to the throat with harsh consequences.. You can ease into the issue slowly… This is so YOU won’t assume you know something you don’t or so you don’t deeply offend someone you are loving.

Nobody disagrees the head of the snake must be cut off. I think all of us are suggesting Gotta must confront that she knows her H is still in contact with this woman.

Let’s review the plan…

This is going take some very strong mind strength. It will be a challenge and far harder than just confronting face to face or by a letter.
Ready? This is your plan.
For the next three to four weeks, you are not going to mention anything about his A, nor what you know, how you know, or even your ways of getting the information you get. In fact, you are going keep up the recording without his knowledge. You are making the choice NOT TO TRUST. That will come later. But you are going to take these steps…
Everything you do, say, will be on a positive note. NO NEGATIVE STUFF. If you happen to get negative, just say, hey, I am sorry for being negative. I am working on ME.
You are going to buy a book on forgiving. I liked Total Forgiveness by R. T. Kendall. You can pick any book you want. Then you are going start reading it. However, You are going to leave it by the bed, in the bath room, and make sure you set it down in a place you know your H is going to see that you bought the book. You might even read this book right in front of him. Make sure YOU KNOW he sees it but not too forward or too revealing. Should he ask you what are you reading, “Husbandname, I am learning how to forgive what you have done to me. I plan to learn how and do it.” You say it in a matter of fact way, one line, nothing else said. You are sending him a clear message. You have something special in YOU. Quality is a woman who knows how to forgive. That is attractive.
NO DEEP DISCUSSIONS.. In fact, no deep discussion in the next three or four weeks. If he wants to talk, YOU JUST LISTEN. “Oh yeh?” “ok” “I appreciate that “ NO arguing, no fight, If he gets angry, See my post to RSEB.. If he comes in throwing things for no good reason. You apply heavy force. But I am not sure anger is your issue so you may not have to deal with that.
During this time, You are going to start to remember the things you really loved about him when you first met, good things that happened in the marriage, all good things. These things you are going to just mention them in passing, matter of fact, make it part of normal conversation..
“hey, you remember the time we…” “I will never forget when…”
After about a week, I like 2 weeks.. of total peace… That kind of stuff, you move into phase 2.
Phase 2 will be a series of things in order. Same kind of non-negative stuff these week too but you are going to make him think… Only positive remember! but you are going work in some conversations when the time is right… The following.
The first will be something along these lines… honey, I’m trusting what you said the two weeks ago. YOU ARE GOING TO BE MY ROCK. I want you to be my rock. You know, we can and should be completely open with each other. Do you agree a marriage both people have a MORAL obligation to be open, honest with each other? IT is a question for him to answer. Then just listen. NOTHING ELSE.
Maybe a couple days later.. Honey, do you believe that if a spouse has some very damaging hurtful information, no matter what it is, it should be told? You mentioned Rock.. If you are a rock, I too should be your Rock. Is that the kind of marriage You want? Complete openness? If he tries dodging any answers, Grab his hand in a loving way.. I just want to know.
Then a couple days later… the next question will be like this.. Matter of fact, over coffee, Hum.. I just had a strange feeling come over me. Do you have something you need to tell me?
Then a couple days later… Same thing, matter of fact.. This time, you say, “ya know” Then you just have one of those very long uncomfortable pauses.. looking him right in the eyes.. Make him say “what?” I just have this feeling inside me, it is kind strange. You know I asked you about being a rock? Are you sure you don’t have anything you want to tell me? If he says NO At this point.. Then YOU must respond this way…
“Oh Well, I know I will figure this out whatever it is?” “if you think of anything, let me know”
Let me hope he confesses by this time. Believe it or not, you just put in a whole bunch of pressure. Or at least a good man will feel that pressure. Because if you give him 3-4 weeks of good nice, caring, giving, and maybe even an intimate day or two.. He still is too afraid to break it off, or confess to you.. Just do yourself a favor.. Move on.
Slap papers on him and see if that will wake him up. Simple tell him that you are not a woman that live her life with any man in infidelity. It hurts me you cannot be a ROCK.
Remember, we love ourselves first. Love always protects. We love ourselves to know when we must end something to begin something new, fresh, exciting… Bring on new happy feelings.

Gotta.. I think your IC said it is OK not to make the choice to R right now. Reconciliation is to reestablish a close relationship and it takes both making the choice to come back to together.


Gotta.. I have no doubt YOU have drawn a boundary. I know you are going to confront. How you decide to do this is your own choice. Ease into it, knowingly, it not avoiding it. But you must be executing the plan easing it to plan.. What book did you buy on forgiving? Has your H seen it yet?


I think you take every persons advice on this board as we are not alone… we are a community helping each other.

Remember, You can also sit down and just flat out say..

Gotta…“H, Let’s just be totally honest with each other. I want our M. If you don’t want this M, I will give you what YOU want.”

Key behavior by YOU.. I already know, you do not argue, you do not give sources..

H, “I want our M too, I am not doing anything”

Gotta.. “Look, I am not some fool so you can just stop it”

H, “but this and that blah blah blah..”

Gotta… “You can lie to yourself all you want.. “

Gotta.. “Here is the deal, I am willing to give you a chance to save this M. End whatever you have going on.. forever. If not, I will give you what you are too afraid to make…. the decision, a D. Now, I am going to the mall to buy me some cloths. When I come back, you can show me what did to end it.”

If he continues to lie.. Just turn.. look at him in one long uncomfortable look. Then it will be a “good bye forever”

The stop loving him… It might come to the above Gotta..


You need the courage to do this.. Take a piece of your recording and send it to MOW's H... Let reality hit her in the face. That pressure on her will be HUGE! The OW Husband deserves to know what is about to hit him... Do you fear this Gotta?

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:09 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotta -- you said before that you believed your WH was a quality man who lost his way, had morals, etc. Well, this should give you the kick in the butt to realize that those beliefs are flawed. And you say you think you aren't strong enough... well, honestly, this should get you mad! And that anger should fuel you to take some action. And then you will feel STRONG. You will feel that your WH has seriously underestimated you. You will take pride in the fact that you CAN stand up for yourself and refuse to be treated this way. YOU DESERVE BETTER. And no one's going to respect you unless you force them to, especially your WH, who is treating you in such an astonishingly disrespectful, insulting way. Right now he's still living in a fantasy world where he can do this. You need to blow this out of the water.

I understand that your father is sick and you are feeling sad and weak. But think about it... is your WH helping you through this? Is his presence a net gain or a drain? That email shows you that he is a viper in your nest, and does not have your best interests at heart at all. It should open your eyes to who he truly is.

My WH's IC used a metaphor to describe what happens when their fantasy world and their real world meet up (WH is a conflict avoider, too). It's like someone who booked two restaurants at the same night and forgot about -- all of the sudden they have to make a decision -- WTF? They have to pull these two realities together. But they won't do this until forced. Right now your WH is cake-eating.

Don't have a confrontation. Just draw up the divorce papers and hefty bag his stuff when he gets back from his trip. Print out the email and tape it to your mirror, to remind you what a jerk this guy is. Clearly, you are not going to love him back -- he's already got his escape route planned.

I am so sorry. I've been following your story and held fire, because I thought perhaps the others were right. But this email tips the balance for me. You will not love him back, and I think you know that now. I hope you have some strong friends to help you through this.

Oh, and PS - re the would I or wouldn't I? I didn't. Had the opportunity and didn't. I was toe-curlingly, groin-on-firingly attracted to this guy. And I didn't. And I worked with him for 3 years. He he fancied me, too.

I didn't not because I'm religious (I'm totally a-religious), but because I know I could not live with myself. There's a whole conversation to be had re what my personality is -- which is highly self-critical -- and how that makes it very difficult for me to do something like this without being honest about how wrong this would be and how, ultimately, it would just make my life worse. My WH, OTOH, is built differently, and had the psychological tools (which I lack) that allow him to block off something like an A and live in a no-consequences fantasy world. Does that make me better than him? I don't really go there. It is what it is and all we can do is to get him to work on integrating his personality better -- making him realize that his actions have consequences (which he's learned, big-time) and that he needs to practice empathy a lot more, so that he can visualize/feel those consequences more routinely.

Oh, and PPS -- while I was amending this Tryn posted. I'm sorry, I think he's totally wrong here. Gotta has to disengage at this point. This guy has been feeding off her good nature and Tryn's advice is just encouraging her in the belief that if she says the right thing, handles this correctly, then there might be a good outcome. This is damaging and stressful to her, and prevents her from becoming stronger in her righteous anger. It really is 180 time. JMHO.

[This message edited by Blobette at 8:22 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 8:32 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I actually love hypotheticals.....

Would I cheat if given the opportunity?

Well when my WW turned her OM2 into a swinger relationship with OM2's wife I did not say no. Now I am sure some of you may be of the opinion that is cheating, I do not believe it technically is in that there was no lying or deceiving involved. My wife always knew what I was doing even though at the time I had no idea that she started with OM2 almost a year before she turned it into swinging. She started with OM2 shortly after OM1 who she had been with for a very long time moved away.

I do feel strongly that I would never cheat in the sense of doing it without her knowledge and approval. All the lying and deceiving would be far too much to take, I have no idea how you manage to sleep at night when you are involved with that. Even if you thought at the time with 100% certainty you would never get caught, I would think you still would be worrying yourself sick on the inside.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 405 | Registered: Nov 2012
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I love hearing all of your POVs. The note was dated 1/24/13, very recent, and I heard him talking about "when they are together someday".

He called me as I was driving to work to rail on me some more. I couldn't quite stick to the plan that tryinhard suggested without bringing up this topic, oops, failed. I just couldn't ignore the note and what I'd heard without confronting him a little. I never mentioned the note and I never mentioned that I heard him talking (IM on his cell) to her about their future. I just offered for him to leave me and that I would be ok, I don't need him to fix me and that I'd be better off just getting over it rather than being strung along. I don't want to be strung along until it's convenient.

He denies future plans with her. He turns the whole thing on me and isn't very understanding of why I continue to hurt. He thinks if I wanted the marriage that I wouldn't keep going backwards and that I would enjoy the good moments. I told him that I have tried to enjoy moments over the last 2 years and he has ruined them all by keeping her in his life. He doesn't get it. He thinks I should just forget it and get over it.

He is feeling like the counseling that I started has made things worse. I don't think it has changed. I know he is threatened by the counseling but I am going to continue, I need to get myself on the road instead of the ditch he has pushed me in.

I am so hurt. I want to stick to the plan of trying to be the best wife I can and see where it ends but it is so hard knowing what I know. I might end up in a confrontation, we'll see.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:18 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Gotta.. You can change yourself.. And you should change something about you.

You are a good woman.. But don’t think you cannot be even a better woman? You can. You have feelings that we all have had.. Fear.

You can be a more couragous woman. NOW that is quality! This is good to have.. it is also a choice! I choose to have courage!

These fears can change with something.. It is called courage. I want to share some art I once made …

How do you change yourself to get courage? And I want you to start doing the following…

You can overcome fear with music, exercise, art, mediation, calling friends writing… and also by helping others on the SI board.

OK.. here goes…

mediation
Everyday.. Find a few minutes of private time to yourself. You are going to mediate. You sit in peace.. You then take your mind into a place in your future. It can be whatever you want.. but it is going to be a great place…

You fantasies about you moving out of your home.. you finally signed D papers. You picked this neat place out that is all yours! The colors are your colors, the furniture is your furniture.. you are cooking a neat meal for only YOU.. it is nice to be right next to your own fire… and just contine with it for a few minutes all positive.. all what YOU fantasize is what only you want and nobody else.

Fantazies and do this everyday!

Make one about you in a grocery store. You notice an attractive man, and you smile at him. He smiles back as you hold off looking at his ring finger. Then as you make your way down the Isle, you pass him again. All the sudden, he says.. Hey.. did we just have a moment? You are shocked! But smile at him and say… Maybe. He then says I find you very pleasing to look at.. Do you come her often? You say.. I might be here next Saturday at about 10 am.. He says.. Never know, I might be here too.

You see what I am saying?

music
OK.. You start listening to music. If something sparks you emotions. LET IT. FEEL the words.. Feel the song.. A great source of music is on Youtube.. Download RealPlayer and you can upload the music free.. convert it you the MP3 player.. in your car, listen to music!

Something you must know.. I got 3 three of these from my W.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82ctJPv_kGU

You are going to confront soon.. And if your H cannot have the feelings to give you one of these.. with meaning.. Then you are going to honor his wishes!

Art
Take some time after work and visit an art gallery. Look at it and see if you can figure out what the heck it is saying. You take a class.. you make something!

calling friends!
When you feel the hurt coming on.. just call a girlfriend! Ask her to just listen.. make sure she is trusted.. ask her if it is ok to lean on her for awhile. Do it as much as you need.. Might even have 2 GF to call..

Write..
Journel.. write post here on SI about your values.. what YOU think! Write a poem! Write out your plan of what you are about to say, what you are about to do!

Read and study all things you must do to get courage.. Go today to the book store and buy a book!

All these things will get your mind in a much better place.

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:07 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 9:19 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know - I'm sorry things are hard for you right now. Continuing with your IC is a great move. Keep working on you.

Also realize that these WS are excellent at lying. Your BS probably lies to her as much as he lies to you. Maybe he is telling her that he needs another year and half in that note because he is lying to her as well. He doesnt want to deal with her demands for getting out of your M now to be with her so he lies to her with excuses of why he can't do it now. I think these WS lie so much that they don't even know what they really want themselves because they lie to themselves as well. Lies, lies and more lies - These WSs are very broken.

Keep working on you, set your boundaries and clearly explain your expectations from your WH when you are ready to do so.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 405 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:32 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gotta.. Your situation is on your timeline now. You are the one with the power.

Guess what H? the shitstorm is about to begin. Oh, he wants this on his timeline huh? Well, I say BS.. You are going to form a plan and then stick to it. One step at a time...

We need to have a discussion about you telling the OM’s W. This is going to be part of your plan.. it must. The OW H is goig to assist you in your pressure too. And all you have to do is very simple.. cut and paste.. Send it!

So, what do you know about OW husband?

And I am sure many of us can give you a whole bunch of recommendations on how to approach, find, etc.. Chime in folks. Gotta needs us!

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:03 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:00 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ReunitePangea
You ever listen to the Dr. Jen show? http://www.doctorjenn.com/ Now this woman is fantastic. The Love and Sex Show with Dr. Jenn Sirius 109

Swingers? She had a show that once discussed this choice. A woman called in and her H ended up cheating on her with one of their swinging couple’s partner. But she caught her man with the other man! Jenn’s value is hey.. do that when you are single, not this when married. It unusually always leads to bad choice by someone. Attractions are powerful I know.

We all lie too. Who are we kidding? Ourselves?

This is why when you pick a partner, that partner must have something about themselves.. A quality characteristic..

Our partners must correct us when we behave.. NOT quality. That correction can be done in different ways.. Combat is optional!! Conflict can be a seed or a stone.

Conflict is inevitable.

So, what is wrong with my suggestion to gotta2know .. She is taking steps. A plan to start with a seed until she is ready to throw the stone?

[This message edited by trynhard at 10:01 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am reading "Not Just Friends", it has lots of good stuff in it.

I have called her husband and she countered it right away with saying that I was a "basketcase" and was lying. When I called him I was very level-headed and only gave him the facts that I knew. He answered me with "I don't think so" and I just responded with you can do what you want with the info I just gave you but I wouldn't have called if I didn't have the truth and that this had been very devastating for our family. Of course my husband protects her because I've threatened to call back again and he says if I do he will make my life a living hell. He would do what he could to make my life more miserable than it already is, he would probably involve my kids.

reuintepangea - I do think he's told so many lies that he doesn't know which way is up. However, I do think that he believes this relationship is the answer to his prayers and that's what scares me.

The more I write, the more I realize how controlling he really is. He will stop at almost nothing to keep us both in his life. Fear is what's keeping me "in line". Hope is probably what is keeping her in line.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:26 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Chime in folks. Gotta needs us!

I just offered for him to leave me and that I would be ok, I don't need him to fix me and that I'd be better off just getting over it rather

gotta2know,
I think that you are giving him too much power. Offering for him to leave you is trying to give him something he already has. If he wanted to leave he would have. Maybe he likes the cake eating, after all the OW is remote you said. Maybe he is waiting and getting his ducks in a row. Maybe he does not see himself as the "bad guy" so long as he does not leave you. Who knows? His staying is a statement that your relationship as it is now is acceptable to him. For 10 years, FWW had a 5-year plan to leave me. She never did. she liked complaining about me, but the fact is she was more comfortable with the status quo, including her OM, than she was D.

By your actions, you too are communicating the relationship is acceptable, at least better than the alternatives.

He denies future plans with her.

Anyway, it sounds like he has plans to leave me in 1 1/2 years. He wants to get his finances in order and get me in a better spot emotionally. Her youngest child graduates about then.

Cheaters lie, still as I wrote above, he probably finds the arrangement acceptable. FWW had off again on again plans for the future with her OM, but never took action. The A was convenient for both of them. It met needs without rocking the boat.

ETA: FWW's last OM talked of when they would "eventually" be together. I saw the email. He wanted her to say that she loved him and reminded her she did once. FWW thought about where they would live together. Thing is, in 2+ years neither of them did a damn thing to make any of this happen. FWW thought if they were eventually together it would make her A not so bad. I suspect OM was just saying what he though womwn (FWW) wanted to hear, plus being "loved" was a huge validation. I know that he knows that his BW does not love him. It is a business relationship.

So your WS may just be saying what he thinks he has to say to keep the A moving forward. OW may need future plans as a sign of true love and to validate the A. Or he may be biding his time until things are ready. Does not matter to you, you set your own life agenda.

end ETA

He turns the whole thing on me and isn't very understanding of why I continue to hurt.

So he either lacks empathy or does not own his fault and responsibility for the A, or both.

He thinks if I wanted the marriage that I wouldn't keep going backwards and that I would enjoy the good moments.

He is using his perception of your actions and intentions to allow him not to take responsibility. I believe that in his mind the M is not good because you do not want it to be good. This I suspect fits with the M history re-write he has done in validating his A with OW.

He is feeling like the counseling that I started has made things worse. I don't think it has changed.

To the extent your IC empowers you and make you more difficult to manipulate or brush off I can see where it (to his perception) has made things worse.

I want to stick to the plan of trying to be the best wife I can and see where it ends but it is so hard knowing what I know.

I agree with SMS. Being the best wife you can be resulted in an A. Sure we can all be better and all have room for improvement, but you being better is not the answer to his A.

I went to IC after almost discovering one of FWW's As. I got better, I improved, I made a serious effort. She went on to have another A for 2+ years until I discovered it. Sure, my improvement helps now, but it was useless until after FWW identified, owned, and made progress fixing her issues.

Some A’s may be a basically healthy and capable spouse who slides down the slippery slope and gets over-whelmed by the bio-chemical effects. I believe that for many (most?) LTAs involve people who have deficits to their core personality. Fear of intimacy, borderline traits, and alcohol or drug addition to provide a few examples from the LTA forum members. To R a M with these people, the underlying personality deficit(s) must be repaired in addition to the M.

My recommendation, start to set and enforce boundaries. You have to decide what will work for you. For me, if he is talking to OP I am heading to D. If he is not owning his A-crap, I am heading to D. IF I am being blamed for the A I am heading to D.

I think it was Einstein said that doing the same thing and expecting different results is a definition of insanity. So if you want a change from the status quo, what will you do differently.

BTW, I have enormous respect for Trynhard. He was very helpful to me in my healing and R. He and I have approached our WWs differently, but with similar outcomes. You have to decide what will work for you. FWW and I did not have a classic SI R, but I am thinking we found a path that worked for us.

Good luck finding your path.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 11:21 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
SisterMilkshake
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Member # 30024
Default  Posted: 10:55 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta ~ "Not Just Friends" is a great book. Too bad you and your WH aren't reading it together, as he is the one that really needs it.

Your WH is deep in the "fog". He doesn't give a darn about anyone but himself. He is not remorseful in the least, as the continued cake eating is proof. He is only regretful that gotta found out.
He will stop at almost nothing to keep us both in his life. Fear is what's keeping me "in line". Hope is probably what is keeping her in line.
This is some very good insight, gotta. I do feel you are being driven by fear. Your IC can help you focus on your fears and how to overcome them. Which is, of course, why your WH doesn't like you going to IC. He is afraid you will get strong and overcome your fears.

How dare your WH rail and be mean to you whilst he is the one that is betraying you? How dare he protect the OW and tell you he will make your life a living hell? Really, a man that threatens to make your life a living hell is someone you want to be married to? Besides that, aren't you already living in a living hell of his making? You trying to be the best wife makes it so easy for him to manipulate you and use that to his advantage.

I agree with trynhard on contacting the BH again. Do you have proof? You need to share the proof with the BH now. Do not tell your WH you will be doing this. Just do it.

It really is time to do the 180, gotta. You need to protect yourself. Your WH isn't going to protect you, he has told you that, he is going to make your life more of a living hell. If you feel you need to do a modified 180 (still cook, clean and launder his clothes) fine, but this is to protect you, to protect your heart.

With IC, doing the 180, you will get stronger and stronger. The path you need to take will seem clearer to you. Do not let your WH lead you, he wants to lead you down the cake eating path. You are in charge of you. You control you.

Offering for him to leave you is trying to give him something he already has. If he wanted to leave he would have.
What ats posted is so true. You need to turn this around.
My recommendation, start to set and enforce boundaries. You have to decide what will work for you. For me, if he is talking to OP I am heading to D. If he is not owning his A-crap, I am heading to D. IF I am being blamed for the A I am heading to D.
This is an excellent place to start. It doesn't mean you have to run out, get a lawyer, and file asap. It means you are heading for divorce. That you are no longer "trying" to have a marriage. It means you are getting stronger and getting your ducks in a row until you feel you can do it.

I am so very sorry that your father is so very ill. It is horrible that your father is suffering in that way and that your WH isn't really there for you, and in fact, is causing you even more pain on top of this. I am so angry for you, gotta. Your WH is going to make your life a living hell? What the hell does he think your life is right now?

Big hugs, gotta. ((((((((((((((gotta))))))))))))))))


BW (me) 50ish FWH 50ish
Married 34 years, 3 children
d-day 3/10 LTA (4 yrs./fucking & flirting)

"Oh, why do my actions have consequences?" ~ Homer Simpson
"She knew my one weakness: That I'm weak!" ~ Homer Simpson


Posts: 8976 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: The Great White North USA
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 10:56 AM, February 4th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know

ATS is right..

My recommendation, start to set and enforce boundaries. You have to decide what will work for you.

About the OW’s H..

When I got my letter in the mail, it had no proof. Yes, a woman in her office was in the process of being fired. When I got the letter, my W said, “That bitch” “ she is trying to get even with us” “She is a horrible person”

But in that very moment of shock, my wife said something that caught me.. “So, are you going to D me over this?” I can remember saying, “Why would you say that if this Bitch is trying to get even with you?” “I believe you honey”

So right then my W call OM. She discussing us all meeting to figure out what to do about the letter both I got, and OM’s W got. Amazing the things people do in panic situations.


Gotta. My thoughts are you must now not concern yourself with what your H is about to feel or his reactions. If you want your M, you are going to cut off the head of the snake. All this shit is going to come into the open. It is a must!

Back to the plan… and a cool, under control, plan that protects you but may even give you and opportunity to save your M. Something you can do to know you went about it in a good way..

You are going to send OW’s H a recording of your H’s voice and the other woman’s voice. You have it still right? No notes, only that recording. But this is going to be on YOUR timeline. You have power!


I can assure you, your OW’s H is living misery. He may not even know it because he is not in touch with his own reality. He might even be a conflict avoider or very passive man. You have already given him a warning. He’s got plenty of gut feelings despite what he told you.

I am assuming you are in the exposure plan we discuss? Or have you changed your mind and want to be more direct?

Right now, you are still the loving W, controlling all your emotions, not getting rattled, making the choice to love your H… being positive. You are showing him what he could have.. Right? You are telling him with that book you can and will forgive.. You are learning how to forgive yourself. Did you read my post on how to get courage? Start that too. You going to control all the things YOU have control over.

Sister calls it a "modified 180.." I say you can wait and slowly bring on this pressure with some time... You can still allow him a chance to turn around.. You nor anyone really knows his true feelings... with some slow pressure. building and building.. he is going to make a choice... And part of this pressure will include OW's H knowing..

So take key parts your recording you know OW H will be able to understand this is his wife. And key part of whatever they are planning words said to each other… etc. Make a recording of it.. I think you can make a .wav file.. make sure it works on different computers. One he will not have any issues with opening. Have it ready for the next couple weeks.

The plan is to introduce it at just the right time!

See, you are going to be very prepared for any consequences you H may impose. He gave you some didn’t he? Yours are going to be some financial ones. You are going to open a secret checking account. And you are going to figure out how to make sure it is funded in a way he is not going to be able to get it.

So you have some work to do.. You keep loving your H, you start the prep for some very heavy pressure to come… You love yourself because you are going to protect some of your assets.. You got that?

[This message edited by trynhard at 11:17 AM, February 4th (Monday)]


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