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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 10:54 AM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He says that I can't let go of the past and move on. He hates it when I bring it up, when I am down about it, that I don't trust him, that I stalk him. You know all those things you do when you've been burnt by the person that should be taking care of your heart?

When he does this I just tell him that he thinks he deserves a "pass" on all that he has done to me. I should just pretend it didn't happen and that it doesn't hurt. I also let him know that after all he's done he can't be believed. I question him when he says it's over, I say why is it over this time when it hasn't been over in 2 years?

So, basically, he thinks he deserves trust and that I am the one refusing to let go and work on the marriage. WRONG! I did everything right. I owned my responsibilities that led to him feeling lonely, thus the affair. I did the things you are supposed to do such as making time for just us, doing special things for him, more sex, more physical and emotional connections, you name it, I did it. All for what? He's still cheating. I ask him how many times does he think he can punch me before I give up. Does he think I should be thanking him for it and asking for another punch in the gut?


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 4:57 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Got2know
i hope u don't mind me replying because I am a FWW. I had a 6yr LTA i hv been COMPLETELY NC for almost three years.

I can hear how you are coming apart with every one of your posts. If I can ask, why are you getting into these conversations with ur STILL WH? You have proof he is still cheating. I understand youre not ready to confront with your proof but why engage and lisy,ten to his BS abt "you should be over his A" When you know he is lying to your face.

He is not worthy of your time or your love right now. If and only if he ends it and does HIS work then you can contemplate staying with him. He has you not knowing if you are coming or going. You are not there to be someone he "may$ choose. You are his WIFE and you make him realize you are willing to be his EX wife...it is not his choice it is yours. He is completelt disrespecting you and continuing to devalue you as a woman.

All he hears from you is an annoyance....set him free...he will realize quickly that you wont let him get away with it anymore.

You are giving him no reason to stop..let him know you are so much smarter and stronger then he thinks.

HUGS!!!!


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 5:02 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So how do you start to deal with all the tainted memories of a LTA?

My WW basically had an on and off LTA our entire time together, both married and before we were married - 14 years. We are working on R, she is doing everything that is needed, we are 3+ months into it. We are going to be moving soon which is good as I would just assume to get out of this house with its memories but to move you of course you have to go through all your stuff that has memories attached to it. How do you deal with all these tainted memories of a LTA?

So far I've just been focused on the present - dealing with the discovery of the LTA and the future - taking necessary steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. How do you deal with the when we were doing this, you were really doing this type of questions I ask myself. I feel like what a blind person who suddenly gains their sight must feel like. It is an OMG that is what you really look like (or in this case were doing) type feeling. Part of my problem is likely I literally have no point in time to fall back to where it was just us without an A - since the whole LTA dates back to day #1. 14 years of memories to sift through - avoidance has been my current approach in the short-term of prioritizing things to deal with but I understand that bandaide can't last forever.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 7:03 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How to deal with memories whilst there was an LTA...

...that is the holy grail of Affair Recovery. I spent 2 hours in a car today dwelling.

I try to think about what Trynhard has posted about that. Ill let him stop in and offer his thoughts.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 8:20 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryin... a truly amazing post! Some of the passages that resonated deeply.

Retrouvaille It revisits what we once had..
I

It reminded us we had a foundation. It taught us both that love is always a choice.


If the grass is so much greener on the other side, why don't they just dump us and go? If we are so terrible, why don't they just go? If they can't decide we are the one, why don't they just go?
They don’t just go.. why? FEARS.

Fear of being viewed by others as a failure, a fake, a liar, when the truth is exposed.

Quality is a man who can communicate what he needs is such a way YOU feel loved and NOT FEEL it was YOUR fault.

Quality is a man who can take full responsibility for his own bad choices in life… Take full credit for placing YOUR feelings in the position you are in.

AND YES.. CHOOSE YOU 100%!

You have ways to lead your man out of his fears and You can teach your man.

You have ways to change and be happy. This can be with him. Or… It can be without him.

Ou

r minds work so strange.

I can only control what I do.

This is very important.. When you have good thoughts.. Good feelings always follow.


and they give each other words that feel good, the law of reciprocity kicks in and your H gives her what she is giving him…and visa versa. They both can be attracted enough to give each other sex. Once Pandora box is open.. A connection and chemical bond forms… relationships form and grow. An escape is then placed into a different place, a spot in a cheater mind.. Separate from his marriage. Nature then forces that man to give love in the form of words of affirmation. It is fantasy come to reality.

Conclusion? No human is perfect. No man is perfect. People make mistakes. People eat the apple. It happens.

That mistake comes at a very high cost..

The cost of bad feelings for not only for yourself, but the promise made to God, to your spouse, kids, family and friends. It is tragic.

Me and my W… Succeeding together

A truly fabolous post! Thanks.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, January 29th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dogs

Twelve years ago I put down a dog I owned before I met FWW. He had been a sweetheart with the kids. Part the dog was in pain and old, part he never adjusted to FL, and a big part because of her complaints about his shedding (golden retriever) and loss of house control.

Now we have an 8 year old dog I did not want her to get that has lymphoma. He will need to be put down soon. Some really mixed emotions coming out.

Older DS is planning to come home this weekend to say goodbye.


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:13 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know
1st...You must cut of the head of the snake. The Affair must stop. You will need to confront... Many good people on the board can help.

2nd.. Only then can you begin to work on the M.

BTW.. He can blame you all he wants but his choice was not a good one. The right thing is to communicate to you what HE needed first... then allow you a chance to give him that need. It is never the BS fault. Because you always follow the rule.. You communicate FIRST.. Then you move on.. NOT, move on get caught then communicate. Both are painful, but one is the right way, and the other is wrong. That’s the way someone not getting what they need can still live up to the promises made and can hold their head high with NO guilt, No shame, No regrets… When it then becomes your partner making the choice NOT to love. Your man is just not quality. Does he want to be a quality man? Some men are not capable… Like Honest’s man. It is not possible for him to change. His culture, his belief, his mental illness just make it impossible. Such is life. Plus, you cannot forgive while he is in an A.

Thanks H&C.. be quality brother! That is when good things happen. 7years is getting it.. “Lead and they will follow.” If not, then be wise and YOU move on.

MC_Jack.. Dealing with trauma. You are in grief. It will end. I don't know all the answers.. life is a mystery. Your mind is doing these things because that is what it does to heal. Every time it goes over and over the impact is less and less. It takes a long time. It took me over 24 months. A quick way to end it? D. Then you deal with other things… and if you happen to have feelings for someone else, You will stop those thoughts about your W betrayal. You will have a differnt less painful kind of thoughts and feelings. This is just the way it is. You can move on that way very fast..A D. 6 months maybe? My buddy had found a great woman in under a year.. He told me NO more of those type over and over and over thoughts. Same goes for the other men I know who Divorced. The time to divorce is pretty “trying” but once over, once signed, they all were blessed with new women and loving every bit of it. A new found happiness.

ATS.. I know that feeling. Not good ones. It is amazing how dogs are such great animal. A dog will love no matter. They do not betray. They always love first.. always forgive.. If only people behaved the same way. Where is your Son going? Moving out to begin his life?

So.. Let me tell you about me and Mike. Last night my W and I were supposed to go grocery shopping after work, we are starting the Akins again. She phoned me on the way home at about 6:45 pm. She stayed at work to talk. Guess who? Yep Mike. See, this behavior was exactly how her A started. Thsi is the kind of stuff every BS needs to know.. How things happened and started. Yesterday during the day, she invited me on a romantic date Saturday. Based on my own past experience, you all can imagine how I feel.

This is about me now, not my W. Me? She can have Mike. I don’t care. It is her choice not mine. Pain will come to both should she choose Mike. It will be detrimental to our families, my kid.. etc. I can and will handle all that pain. And my wife did love me during her A, asking me out on dates, adventures, etc..

I could behave in an unloving way.. “You are going cheat again” “You bitch, you start this again, I won’t have it!” “Mike is trying to F you. Just like OM!” What that bring is not so good feelings to my W. That would not be giving her the benefit of the doubt.. It breaks her down.. it reminds her of her past sin.. Or the old me.. “Oh well”

I assume it’s more like what RSEB post.. “She does not even know it” See, A person can get trapped into attractions without even knowing it. Mike, he is a snake-charmer maybe without even knowing it. You’ve seen the WS say all over SI.. “It just happened.” I once made art about that.. LOL.. That art I made was pretty funny but it gave me an escape.. release of my feelings.

So, as it applies to my real life situation at this moment in time, a quality man has this values as it relates to ME..
- A Model man is what she wants you to be (I fight for what is mine)
- A man who is not callous (I have feelings!)
- Prove that you love her (I don’t stand for any man walking on my turf)
- A woman needs attention (I am going to give it to her.. I am paying attention)
- A woman does not want a beggar (I am going to beg, she has a choice to be in my world or not)
- A woman wants me to be a man who is confident in his masculinity. (I am going to let her know she is too close to Mike; a man does not accept that behavior; A masculine man knows he has other options in this world)
- My wife wants a relationship with me. (This is part of all relationships.. protecting your own feelings, communicating)
- My wife does not want me to criticize her ( I won’t, I will just lay down the law.. I don’t want a wife who has a close relationship with any man)
- My wife wants my love for her by being open (NO MORE old me.. "oh well")
- My wife does not need me to fix or correct her. (She is going to fix this on her own)
- My wife needs have sense of worth. (So I show her what I want... because she is worth so much to me)
- My wife wants me to be a leader and a man who inspires her to be the best. (She knows it is not best to have close personal relationships with any man.. An I am going to demand that of her)

How we communicate is so important. The super light pressure I gave her the other day flew right over her head. So, I it is going to be slightly heavier.

When it fits in the right conversation.. “Oh, I see YOU and MIKE are now starting to develop a very close relationship.” Nothing more after that.. I will just listen.

Let’s see if she “gets it”

Now that is what my Sex therapist says works.. Be a quality man, care less, have courage, communicate in a good way, adding pressure along the way.. until the bad behavior stop but if contunes.. increase it so slight.. Results? you might just find your W will want to give you sex for it… Kinda funny huh?

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:37 AM, January 30th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 8:07 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How to deal with memories whilst there was an LTA...
...that is the holy grail of Affair Recovery.

Ugh, I hope it is not impossible to get to. Someday I want to be able to get beyond the past.

Trynhard - interesting story about your Wife and Mike. Here is my take on it though. I check up on my WW not not for her sake but my own - To provide me confidence that all is ok and on the right track. If I need to start checking up on her to stop potential A's that are in starting to form because they follow past patterns, im done. That is not the R that I want and I feel that I deserve better after all that she put me through. We should not have to be our WS's life long conscious to prevent them from doing harm to us.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

good morning all,

Atsenaotie, I am so sorry about your furry child. My BH and I have always had dogs, we have put down three total. Dusty was my baby. I couldn't feel joy for a long time after that.
Then we put down our Mocha in 2010, it was only 2 months after my BH had full knowledge of my LTA. Mocha had a brain tumor and within 24 hours we had to put her down because she was seizing every 3 hours and the medicine wasn't helping. I could not stand the extreme pain my BH had to endure in that short time frame. My thoughts are with you. I am sorry for your loss.

As far as the "tainted memories" that have been talked about. I don't know what to contribute except I see my BH go through it too. From my WW point of view, I can vividly remember SO many good moments with my BH that went on during my LTA. Getting pregnant (no I had not been intimate with MOM at that point) and finding out that I was finally going to give my BH a boy. We had our DD already, had miscarried two and now we were going to have a boy. My BH SOOO needed that, his father was never there for him and he so desperately wanted that bond. I cried all the way home from the sonogram and couldn't wait to tell him. I remember going to Disney World and sitting on the bus with him and him telling me how much he loved me and our family. I remember all those little moments. So the question is why did I continue? It was my brokeness, my disconnect, my fear of my BH disapproval. My BH is a very blunt and harsh person. I "felt" like I wasn't good enough, that I never did enough, never cleaned well enough. He is very critical, still is and that hurt me. So I made the mistake of running. Add that in with my conflict avoidance and not communicating with him anymore about how much it hurt, horrible coping skills turned me outside of my M. My point is, that for me anyway those memories are still there, yes they are tarnished FOREVER, but the broken part is on my side, the WS side, we shattered what the memeory meant because of us and our choices. I can only speak for myself. I too am struggling with the broken memories. I hate and Love seeing home videos of that time during my LTA. I love seeing them because I see the life we have built, but I hate them because I know it makes my BH world crumble. I see the hurt in his eyes. But I will stand by him, live with the guilt and shame FOR HIM. He deserves at least that from me, as long as he will have me. It is his choice to stay, and if he ever feels he will be happier without me, I will have to accept that as well. So all I can do is try to be there for him and help him with those horrible tainted memories and pray that one day all of my actions since DDay will be enough to bring a little bit of peace and understanding to those memories.

My BH and I have been having a good week. He was actually "present" and really "with me" for an entire week. That has not happened in THREE years, I am usually lucky to get 2 days. So he told me last night he wasn't doing well and he wanted to stay downstairs a bit longer alone. I took TrynHards advice, took my BH hand and said "I want you to come upstairs with me." I did not give into the negative. He followed me and we were okay, went to sleep together. This morning I surprised him by initiating sex, seeing how I know that it is important for him to feel loved in that way. I left for work and he seemed better.

So I hope we are on a good path. Tomorrow we are taking a day trip together just he and I after the kids go off to school. We are both looking forward to it, we hardly ever go out by ourselves alone. I can't wait.



ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for your post RSEB, some of the things you said are the same my WW says which is reassuring to hear.

From my WW point of view, I can vividly remember SO many good moments with my BH that went on during my LTA.

That is exactly how my WW looks at it. The LTA was just a small part of her life in her mind. To me though it consumes our past completely. In my case there is nothing broken in our past M that my WW can point to and say she did it cause of that. I have never critizied her, we rarely ever fight, we pretty much have had a M where we are just really good friends that told each other every day that we loved each other. I think it isn't as much as what was wrong than what was a small part that was missing. I am not the most exciting person in the world and I think it was the excitement that she seeked. The other cause predates me entirely and has to do with past A's in her own life - something I have nothing to do with but yet I am the one punished with it. I almost rather there was something bad in our M that caused it, then it could be something that could be worked on and provide justification (albeit incorrect justification) for the whole LTA in the first place. It would give me focus to work on changes myself, while I will agree i am not perfect, there is nothing specific in my life that stands out to be worked on.

Instead when going through stuff while we move, I am left with all these tainted memories. Tainted memories of no fault of my own. Early in our M, my WW once asked me if this is as good as it gets, at the time I had I always thought heck yea this is a good as it gets!!!, I couldn't ask for any better!!! Now I ask myself the same question she asked me many years ago, is this as good as it gets? Now I focus on going forward and making things much better, because looking back it just wasnt nearly as good as I once thought.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
RSEB
♀ Member
Member # 34728
Default  Posted: 11:11 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ReunitePangea

Hello, glad you are posting here in the LTA forum, it has helped me TREMENDOUSLY even though I am from the other side of the fence.

When you said that you always told each other that you loved each other, that resinated with me so much as well, or should I say with my BH. We also told each other the same every morning and every night. We are and were very affectionate, held and hold hands ALL the time etc. The disconnect is that I chose to avoid and not face the bad parts of his critisism. I felt I was fighting a never winning battle. However now in MC I have learned from my BH POV that he sees critisism as a motivator to do better, that is how his mind works. But for me it only made me feel worse about myself. So for me it was hard to figure out what was "real", the harsh critisism, and sometimes angry words, or the I love yous that came at the end of the day. Should have could have would haves plague me CONSTANTLY....if only I would have been strong enough to demand MCing then, to share how unhappy I was etc, but it was my broken side that found it easier to run and hide in my A. But I do remember the very good times we had during my LTA, but now I always question if I remember the "bad" times accurately or did I see them in such a more horrible light because I was blinded by my A.

And if I may say, there are TWO people in your M, if your WW was not happy or not excited enough as you say, she could have made plans, vacations etc, date nights out, rent a hotel for a night etc, if that is what she needed. However she too fell victim to the qualities she lacked to communicate those needs properly to you, as did I.

I try constantly to pull my BH out of the mind set that "he wasn't good enough", he self blames SO much, and he feels our entire M was not real. It is our daily battle as well. Obviously one we are definitely not alone in.


ME - FWS


Posts: 259 | Registered: Feb 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 11:53 AM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ReunitePangea

If I need to start checking up on her to stop potential A's that are in starting to form because they follow past patterns, im done. That is not the R that I want and I feel that I deserve better after all that she put me through.

Oh you want my kind of R. I get what you’re saying. But you must remember you and I are in far different places. I am way ahead of you.. and well trained, well read.. etc. My grief has ended and yours has just begun. You want to end your grief right? All those horrible feelings within yourself. It’s a long journey. This is really about you, not your W. For a healthy you, you will need to figure out how to forgive, how to love differently, how to behave differently, how to be a man no woman will every want to risk cheating on you. You need to figure out what masculine behaviors you must develop so No woman will ever feel a need or be tricked by a snake charmer.

I give my wife trust. I don’t gps her, keylogger her, heck, I don’t even look at text, phone bill and all. You know trust is not a feeling, it is an action you do. I can have feelings of being unsafe, but I still trust. Trusting is attractive. Not trusting is unattractive. I get exactly what you are saying.

You have a power about you. It’s the consequences part.. “I’m done” It takes some courage to end a marriage. You have blessed your wife with a second chance for all kinds of reasons I am sure about that. Me, It was fear that gave my wife her second chance? Are you afraid? You should be. D may affect others way beyond you and your W. I still have bad feelings over my parents D and they did it back in 1987.

Ok.. let’s talk about your value. See, you have that very strong position of “It’s over” but IF you cannot develop all those things I call “being a quality man”, I can assure you this… YOU will never have a healthy M or any good relationship with any woman. You will have dumped your W and moved into relationship that… sure, you learned a few things about the last one.. but will you know the real secret not ever taught to us by our parents?

I am going to say something that might hurt a bit. There is a reason your W cheated on you. Was it her needing to be fixed? Most will disagree with me. I will say that some women did if fact have FOO issues where the need endless male approval.. ie.. Yes, endless affirmation! A love language huh? But I know even a woman who did have FOO can be loved in ways were she won’t need that from any other man too. Me? Not for me though because that would be exhausting. Addictions? I would say that needs fixing. Anger and abuse usually caused by mental issues? YES. My point is that your W is likely like most, they don’t need fixing. My wife never needed fixing. But infidelity is mostly caused by.. Attractions.

So back to the your consequences verses my approach concerning Mike. My W may or may not be attracted to Mike. She is not going to tell me. But I have met Mike. He is smart, he is good looking, he has many attractive things about him. Not unlike many men. I know he is attracted to my W. My wife is very good looking. My wife has a nice body.. She is very nice. Very giving. Very compassionate. Very smart (High IQ top of her class at Purdue) and many other things. I am my W’s best friend. We talk every day about things. She talks about a co-worker, Mike. See, I know now human nature, a given in life and it even happens with me.

Yes, I am very attracted to woman on this board just because over the years we’ve chatted. I’m not going to embarrass myself and say who. LOL.. We once posted pictures and from a physical standpoint, WOW! you won’t believe how pretty these woman are.. all cheated on too. We almost all got banned by posting pictures of our betrayed partners. I thought it was funny but the mods did think I was too funny. I am sure they could face lawsuit and get the site shut down. It was not too smart.

Anyways… You get my point. I can be attracted other woman, you can too. Most people can develop attracts that have nothing to do with physical appearance but you and I both know that is a powerful attraction too.. Dating usually starts with that and there are many attractive people and they come in all flavors. You get what I am saying?

So back to a behavior that is attractive.

What is attractive is for a man to just make his point and let his W make a choice. My wife can take it or leave it. That is a power you have and believe it or not, that is an attraction.

What is not attractive is a jealous, controlling, demanding, threatening, tracking, type husband. Woman hate that.

See, I am not jealous over Mike. I am a much better man than Mike. I have confidence in myself, I have the ability to give my wife affirmation, attention, and I do it to the best of what I have to give. It is with purpose, with intent, with all those things to fill every need she has. If she wants to risk losing me, go right ahead and fall for Mike.

So.. I fire a warning shot. She is crossing my boundary. It is the benefit of doubt. It is early in her attractions she could develop for Mike. I do it in a loving way, not angry (which is unattractive), I do it cool and not threatening (which is unattractive) and not in anyway I am rattled.

What my W should feel is after I apply some light pressure is.. Wow, I have a man who really wants me, he fights for me, he is open enough to tell me his feelings of being unsafe.. and most important.. he said it, did it, from a standpoint of caring, loving, and nice way.

What is not attractive is… “W, I see you are talking to Mike at work, I’m done” “You are a flirt” I give my W freedoms to live her own life. That is attractive.

Let me go on to explain my behavior that failed to stop my W’s affair. I knew she was getting close to her boss. Yes, I said something. I was so long ago I cannot remember. But her reaction was that of very strong defense. “You have a life, I don’t” She was new into the workforce. I made a critical mistake. I let her have that relationship and in the wide open. Right in front of my eyes. I allowed her to bring the OM into my own life by backing way off. I can remember many times saying, “why don’t you want me any more?” “What am I doing wrong?” “what do you need?” This came after she had started the A but all the same.. I had a gut feeling, but never acted on it. Yep, those famous last words, “I do” keep you in a comfort zone, a safe zone, etc.

The things you must know after infidelity come into play. It took about a year before my wife was attracted to her OM and gave him sex. That is my W. I know my wife enough to believe like what you said, she is not going to put me through that. But I also know a “GIVEN” in life. People are not always loyal. I used to be naive to that given. Back then, I had plenty of time to stand my ground of my own feelings. I had time to stand up for what was mine. If I was a quality man, I would have recognize it, and behaved appropriately, the post I made. I might be D right now because who knows the choice she would have made. The advantage of a LTA is that as time goes on, a wayward can sometimes see.. The OM wasn’t “marriage material”. This is a reason the string us along. And of course she also knows, OM is a cheater. Fidelity is attractive, infidelity is not. Back then, I initially gave her pressure, but her pressure back to me was much stronger and I back way off. That’s not me anymore. I changed. A quality man will bring on healthy conflict when his wife is not behaving properly or crossing boundaries that then have some sort of effect on his feelings.

I have no clue what will happen tomorrow, but I do know this, I am going to be a man this time. I am going to do it in a way where she is going see it herself, recognize it, and make the choice to do the right thing. On her own. She is going to respect my feelings. More and more pressure will come until my final ultimatum. Only after that point it will be the end. That is attractive behavior. You see what I am trying to say? It is sometimes hard to write what you actually mean. I get you ReunitePangea. But along the way, you must learn that how you approach things will make a difference.

I am going to give my W the opportunity without damaging my own attractiveness. Why? Because we are in a mature, loving, caring M right now. I can say, she has earned it by going to Retrouvaille with me, her current behaviors… and yes I tracked her to a point I felt safe again. She deserves to have a very light warning shot. She deserves it not to be “the end” because of things I don’t know about that relationship. I only address my own feelings. What she does beyond that? Who knows? I have no idea if she is just being nice with Mike. I am not at her work all day. I don’t know what they do. Frankly, I don’t care. I understand we work with opposite sexes. It is important to have that kind of relationship. But I am no longer naive. I understand attractions happen. She is not going to bring home his personal business and life stories to me. That affects my feelings. It makes me feel unsafe again. I can only hope she does not take her relationship deeper. She’s a big girl, she knows the line to cross.

I know this.. My wife is human. She will fail me again with some bad behaviors. I will make sure I bring on conflict in a healthy way. I am not going to go for her throat, the jugular when she does make a mistake. That is unattractive.

Love always hopes. I choose to love my W. I can only hope she loves me in reciprocity and I will not have to add pressure as her relationship develops with Mike. If she chooses to take it deep underground, I will see her behavior change in other ways. A human cannot love (in the proper way) two people at the same time. The emotions, the feelings, are too powerful and not many people are that good at compartmentalizing. Only a sociopath has that capability. I will see it because I know the true meaning of love these days. It is something you need to fully understand too.. but I cannot tell you because I would have to write a book! Lol..


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 12:12 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

RSEB

A quality man does not criticize his wife. You are going to get him to a point he is gong to stop that unattractive behavior. but at a later time... These first few weeks.. YOU build him up. You do things to make sure he knows you are the only man in this world YOU want. You are going to be so attractive yourself first, NO way will he risk letting you go. Only then will he make his own choice to be.. not critical. You can let things go for now.. If anything.. very light or implied pressures. You work on know what a man needs … and do it.

Sex is a powerful affirmation to any man. But remember, he too must romance you. It really is the man job to romance his woman. But I can tell you, a woman who will initiate is an unbelievable love of touch to a man. I think you are on the right track and I hope your man will change for you in time.. Love is patient.

Boy does your post resonate with me.

Peace out folks.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 12:33 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard – thank you for all of your thoughts and insight. While I do not agree with all of your points as they apply to my personnel situation, I do benefit from understanding them all.

If I am understanding your post to me, you are indicating that while I may have not done the A, it is weaknesses in me that contributed to its cause and I need to work being a better man if I want to prevent future A’s in my M. Well I can assure you that I am absolutely certain that no weakness in me caused my WW to start a LTA. How can I be so sure of this? Is my ego just that big? No my ego is not that big, I know this to be true because strangely I was the OM. Yes I was the OM that never knew he was an OM for 14 years. We met and she never told me she was seeing someone else and continued seeing what I call the OM throughout our whole dating and years into our M. This OM went on himself to get engaged and married himself after he likely came to the conclusion that my WW was not going to ever leave me for him. His engagement and marriage didn’t stop the A either – I often wonder if that was my wifes way of poisoning his M like he did ours. My wife had issues with A’s well before me and OM that I am just now starting to learn about. So of course I could have never started it with weaknesses in myself, the question of whether my weaknesses caused it to continue could be raised maybe but I did not start it. Strangely I read on here that if you let them be together the A often can not last, I am proof that it sometimes does.

My story gets even stranger later in life but that is for another time. I do have difficulties relating to others in here as I often do not find a story like mine. I have read other stories of people who later find out their significant other was always a cheater but they never seem to last as long as mine has. We have two beautiful kids and have lived half of our lives together under this situation. It is really a lot to take in when I stop to think about it too much.

Can I be a better man, sure I can. Does my M need me to be a better man, honestly it shouldn’t have to. I am a great man, I always have been. I work hard to provide for my family, I am great with our kids and I have always been great for my wife. My weakness is that I must be the most naïve and most trusting person in the world as I had no fricking idea that this was all going on. As you are obviously well read on the subject of A’s trynhard, you should know there are many different type of A’s. I struggle to figure out what type mine is sometimes.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK guys, I appreciate your thoughts so here goes a little bit of babbling. I just don't know what to do.

One minute I think I need to have a confrontation with him about what I know (and it's not good). He's telling her he loves her, she's the best, on and on. No negative connotations about me yet. The part I hate about that is it will give up my last spying source I have but then I think what does that matter, our marriage is basically over anyway. I hate to fight and I hate the threats he makes when I confront him. He always wants to involve our kids, tell them we are divorcing. I don't want them upset, I want to know that is the definite direction we are going before we tell our kids, it's not fair. He knows its and uses it against me, I'm sure. He has a job where he travels so I would like to just have no contact for awhile and see if divorce is where we truly want to end up. The kids wouldn't have to know a thing.

The other side is maybe I should work on me before I confront him. I have my first counseling session tomorrow. I am a mess. I want to feel better about myself. I want to exercise. I want to lose some weight. I need to stash some money. I need to detach (not doing well there). If I try to detach he accuses me of checking out on the marriage. He always turns the table on me.

What kills me is that last night he seemed remorseful in a way. He holds me and tells me he loves me and that he wants to be my rock. Not sure if he meant he wants to be supportive or throw them at me, lol. I had just seen my dad in the hospital who is suffering from brain cancer and I was crying.

I hate this! I wish he would just admit that he doesn't love me anymore and that he's not willing to let her go. I know I shouldn't let it be his decision, but you are right, I don't know if I am coming or going.

What road do you think I should head down?


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
ReunitePangea
♂ Member
Member # 37529
Default  Posted: 1:12 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard - After reading your post again I wanted to add that I don't actually think your approach to Mike is wrong. It's not that I would go to my wife in a similar situation and say Mike goes or I go. Actually it is the opposite that I am trying to state. I wouldn't say anything or something similar to what you would. It is the expectation of how you are to be treated that I was pointing out. I expect my wife to treat me better, I expect my wife to not be weak like she was, I expect my wife no not get herself in another A. If she were to head down this path again, then im done. There are no third chances, a second chance is all that she gets. After all that she did, I have no choice but to continue to offer trust. Am I as trusting as I was before, absolutely not, but you have to trust otherwise you poison the M so much it is not worth living in for both parties.


BS - Me 38
WS - Wife 39
D-Day - Oct 12
Married 10 years
OM1 - 12-year LTA
OM2 - 9 month A turned into open relationship with couple for another 1 1/2 years

Posts: 406 | Registered: Nov 2012
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:18 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

ReunitePangea.. Yes, another “given” in life. Life is not fair.

Weakness? Well as we go though life we can get stronger. Obviously, We both had something not quite right. The very nature of all relationships is two way. I know it is naiveness. We are taught that M through religion, parents, society.. etc that when we say the famous words “I do” we are safe because we must now behave like we vow. How we behave, we can control. How our spouses behave, we have no control. We think it is a given that our spouses behave the same way. But that is not reality. Heck, we always think we will fall in the 50% that won’t D.. won’t get betrayed. Did we not pay attention to social statistics? No. So we live our happy lives the way we live them without even considering our spouses who have issues we cannot control… They keep it to themselves… or fail to know how to communicate what is not attractive, missing.. or whatever.

I know that attractions are that strong, to a point where any person can say… YES.

Your W had very strong attraction toward her OM.. It does not matter all the time before you got M. She had them.. They were so strong she made a choice to say YES. The common element in our W’s is the attractions were so strong they had no willpower to say.. NO. .. An issue, yes. But it is not our issue. Our issues are different.

and it goes to exactly what RSEB shared with us.. This is very powerful we must believe.

if only I would have been strong enough to demand MCing then, to share how unhappy I was etc, but it was my broken side that found it easier to run and hide in my A.

Yes, I can say RSEB had issues. That post is classic! She acted on her issues of attraction to her OM as an escape. Can her H fix her? Nope. She must want to fix herself. See, we can only control our own behaviors.

Or how about this? Let’s say my FOO is the kind of family that always criticizes.. our solution is to get angry to solve problems.. You’ve watched that TV show, Hardcore Pawn. That kind of person. I then grow up to be that man. Yes, I am a good man I think. Now you M a woman and if she is not the strong woman, who can put that man in his place, guess what? she is not happy. She is primed to be the picking of a sweet talking charmer. She is attracted to someone building her up. She is going to say.. YES. It is classic! There are a whole bunch of folks raised just like RSEB. (No offense RSEB.. you are about to transform into a new woman!)

But along the way in our lives, Imagine had you had these values.. Even true for RSEB.. the day you got married. (in your case before you even started to date your wife) I understand the odds are not in my favor. Therefore, I must be keenly aware. I must in all situations, when I feel something (the gut feeling or even being treated in an unfair way) I must add pressure, healthy conflict, and bring on the issues, whatever they may be to a final conclusion at all cost of any pain. But doesn’t that view of M go against everything we are taught? Isn’t the “I do” a given “and they lived happily ever after”? Fact is, the above values are attractive believe it or not. We should not live our live so naïve and so afraid to bring on the conflict. Healthy conflict though.. you tag that value along with being quality.. Affair proof.. Ok there is always a 2% er.

I strongly believe that each one of us have a God given ability to know when something is just not right. We should harness that power. As for all relationships, there is always a tell tell sign. Our ignorance perhaps prevented us for seeing them. Where do you learn to see them? Through hard knocks I suppose for most. But if we can look hard at ourselves, we can change and be someone who does not have to face those hard knocks.

And that is my point. We can only control what we do. It is loving ourselves.. love always protects.

As I think back to my youth. My wife asked me to marry her, I did not get on my knees. I knew she had an abortion from her previous BF. She is damaged right? It hurt her deeply beyond what anyone knows outside of me. It was trauma without my consideration. My focus.. my need so strong was sex. The sex attraction was overpowering. I made choices way before it was time to make those choices. A naive kid growing into an ignorant adult. I can see it now what I could not see then. As long as my W was giving me sex, she loved me. No way any woman would have sex with two men at the same time.. Right? We all learn as we live our lives.

No we can never control the choices others make. But we must also realize there is always a cause and effect. There are always tell tell signals and signs to wade through. We must seek to understand what those healthy behaviors are and transform ourselves into that healthy person.

No more naiveness for me. Nor will I be naïve to think my own behavior did not play a part. Both in who I picked and my own behavior. Today, I do have a strong foundation today and all I can do is be the best man possible, the most attractive man and hope my W will follow. I will lead by example. I know this for sure.. The more you are attractive, the more you get sex. LOL..

RP.. I get where you are at in your grief. I am not going to give my W that ultimatum. “Mike goes or I go.” I know it is not the way you behave in an attractive way. That is flat out saying.. Honey, you are cheating again.. making her feel guilty going against forgiving. That's seem jealous to me which is unattractive. Heck, she may even want Mike. She is goint to make her own choice. I doubt she is going to make a bad choice. This morning she gave me the sweatiest touch with meaning.. and a nice smile. I am paying attention. It is by choice and my new behavior. She is going to feel just enough pressure to the point it will be attractive. If not, we are going to eventually get to the ultimatum and.... misery. And guess what, No need for GPS, keylogger.. IF we get to that point, she already made her choice. She ends it by me filing D papers. But I know my way comes at this in a loving, caring, open and intimate way. We are going to get to a point she is goint to "get it" If she so chooses not to be with me, wanting me, willing to protect my feelings.. I know I did all I can do the right way.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 3:25 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I listened to the recording again over my lunch and just made myself sick and am bawling AGAIN. I can't quite hear it all but I think he is eluding to leaving me this summer. I don't know why he wants to wait til then and I'm not sure if that's what I heard but I think it is. Either way he knows I record him so I heard him telling her they wouldn't be able to talk as much but he would keep in touch (he is using some kind of chat or something on his cell phone and speaking into it). He said he loved her and that she was the best.

I am so hurt. He apologizes to me all the time, that he didn't want me to be hurt and yet he continues to do this. If he spent half the time and effort he does on her, we wouldn't be where we are.

I know the writing is all over the wall that it is over and that he's never coming back but I just can't take the next steps. I want him to dump me and get it overwith. Maybe by him dumping me I know it is the right decision. Don't ask me why I can't see that is definitely the right decision, there is no room for a 3rd person in a marriage.

I was divorced once before and I know what it's like and maybe that's what I'm afraid of, I don't know. I don't want to go through losing my dad to brain cancer alone. I don't want to finish raising our teenagers alone. I guess the bottom line is that I don't want to be alone.

I'm so depressed today.


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 3:33 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

gotta2know

Just take your time and form a plan. If what you are saying is true, your man is pretty messed up. With some courage and strength you will get through this.. Before you confront.. Please let us all put our heads together.. but let us know what the IC says too. We have some very strong powerful people here who can share what they did and how it turned out. Things to say.. I have a different way to approach than most.. You might consider it.. but let's just wait.

Be strong.. Do not get rattled. You can be happy soon with some steps..


last night he seemed remorseful in a way. He holds me and tells me he loves me and that he wants to be my rock.

That is saying he wants to love you.

Do you have questions for your IC? Sit down and write a few out. How to confront should be one too.

When was it recorded? What was the exact date you have this on him?

BTW.. I can afford to lose a few pounds myself.

[This message edited by trynhard at 3:35 PM, January 30th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
gotta2know
♀ Member
Member # 37115
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, January 30th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trynhard-
I appreciate your insight and look forward to your responses. I am so desperate for answers and am going in circles, not knowing which direction or path I want to go down.

I recorded this Jan. 22 as he was driving many miles for his job. I have confronted him before with recordings but they all happened at our house. He hasn't figured out that I put them in his car, too.

I am so knotted up that my first appointment with my counselor will go by in a snap, there is so much to cover since I am such a mess.

Most times I believe he wants to love me but when I hear the recordings it definitely casts all doubt on what he says to me. Who is he lying to? Me or her, both of us? He is definitely lying!

I am so paralyzed. I don't want to make a wrong decision. I also don't and won't share my husband. I also don't want to sit around and wait for his most opportune time to dump me either.

What are your methods?


BW - 46 (me)
WH - 46(repeated cheater, cake eater)
Married 17 years
DD 4/8/2011 and many more
3 children- 22(mine), 16 and 13
Living in misery trying to understand why I choose to do so.
I like the saying "feel the fear and do it anyway!&

Posts: 165 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: SD
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