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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:28 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun- sorry to hear that your husband is not working on himself or attempting to make any changes.
IMHO that is the key for a successful R after d-day- change.
Everything about the 'old' marriage has to change.
There is a post in Reconciliation by Mrs. Doubtfire about the positive changes in her FWH and how that made R possible.

It does sound as if you have a plan for yourself.

m33- sorry to hear about your FWH's medical issue-hope the doctors can help him.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, January 13th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No fun - don't forget "acts of service" is a love language. It might not be yours, but it shows he is trying at least some.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 6:59 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((Laura28))


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 10:14 AM, January 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M3: I hope all goes well with your WH and this is just a temporary thing.

Nofun: Just keep moving ahead for you and do what is best for you. I'm so sorry that your WH still is keeping things to himself. Rugsweeping does nothing to help a marriage.

Laura: It's good that your WH has openend up a little. Perhaps MC might be in order now? These WS's don't understand that going back to the "status quo" is what caused the problems in the first place!

For me, I've been fighting anxiety attacks and crying jags lately. The same old stuff, so really don't know why I'm suddenly doing this.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 12:23 PM, January 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sad to say that Mr.M3 has suddenly lost his vision in one eye due to a blood clot :(

m3..I too hope this is a temporary problem. Let me know if I can help in anyway as I have personal experience in this area. I will send you a PM.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, January 14th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sad to say that Mr.M3 has suddenly lost his vision in one eye due to a blood clot :(

m3..I too hope this is a temporary problem. Let me know if I can help in anyway as I have personal experience in this area. I will send you a PM.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:36 AM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Laura – have a lovely time in NZ. Say hello to the boys for me if you find yourself in QT!

I'm sad to say that Mr.M3 has suddenly lost his vision in one eye due to a blood clot :(
That sounds scary. I hope it’s something that can be sorted quickly and isn’t an indication of anything requiring further investigation. What's the latest....?

No fun - don't forget "acts of service" is a love language. It might not be yours, but it shows he is trying at least some.
It would seem that fWH does this. He’s not sure what to do and so he offers to make dinner or asks what chores he can do for me or just asks to help. Part of me doesn’t want him to do this, as if what he is doing is penance. I haven’t thought of it as a love language, although maybe he doesn’t know what else to do. He knows I have emotionally withdrawn lately. The whole Linkedin business and his inability/refusal to deal with it has left me despondent and low and very insecure in my marriage.

And the next fun thing is I think I have to go and get a “proper” job as the government has seen fit to simply remove the basic state pension for SAHM. So I have lost £5,700 (at today’s rate) per year - just like that! And fWH’s previously enhanced pension has been reduced by over £4,000 to this new universal basic pension. Sheesh. No politics. Just fact.


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 7:55 AM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nofun and UKgirl,
…don't forget "acts of service" is a love language. It might not be yours, but it shows he is trying at least some.

....so he offers to make dinner or asks what chores he can do for me or just asks to help.

Acts of service is a love language, and it may be (one of) his. There is some truth to people speak their love language. This was an area that tripped up FWW and I for most of our M as we speak very different love languages and receiving the other's love language not only missed the mark, but we would find the efforts made irritating.

Still, by asking what to do or wanting to help is displaying an immature implementation of the love language as opposed to anticipating your desire and doing an act unbidden. FWW comes and sits with me and holds my hand when I ask her to is nice, but I feel indebted. FWW coming over to rub my shoulder as she talks, or bringing me a cool drink when I am working outdoors, is great because she initiated it. Even though I know she says she likes to please me, it is so much more powerful a message when it is done without my request. It shows that she is thinking of me, and knows me.

Yes, there must be communication and I am responsible to stating my needs and desires and being happy in my life, but it does communicate to me a much different message when FWW (or anyone) knows me well enough to anticipate something I would like or want and then do or get that for me. I try to do the same for FWW, although I will admit to struggling. It does not come naturally and FWW is still reluctant to have wants or needs.

The communication I believe is the segment that is missing for UKgirl and nofun. Both of you want your FWSs to open up, talk, and help you to understand and process your emotional fallout from their As. Unfortunately, neither of them has done this consistently or well. While it is nice they want to “help”, they are missing the mark and avoiding the intimacy of a relationship. If they were to open themselves up emotionally to talk and share desires, fears, and hope, they would learn how best to love each of you. To do this though means they must first own the terrible thing they did and experience (empathy) your pain and anger. This is a difficult thing to do, and far to many people behave as though anger unexpressed does not exist rather than understanding that expressing anger is the first step in diffusing it.

0115,

…found his why and has worked very very hard to change himself.

This, I believe, is the only way to R the M. Couples can stay together, but for a M to be restored the WS must do this. NJgal480’s FWH did, Tryn’s FWW did in her own way, and FWW has. Especially for the LTA I believe there is usually (always?) an underlying personality issue that must be identified, owned, and compensated for or corrected for the FWS to become a true M partner. I do not believe that an A can continue for a year or more just as a lapse of judgment, a poor impulse control, or a loss of barriers leading to “true lurve”. With the LTA the A is compensating for something lacking in the WS’s life.

In these last pages of posts, we see a lot of evidence of WS’s looking for some THING to make them happy. The next job, the next toy, the next house, the next man; they were looking for their happiness in an outside person, activity, or thing. I saw this in FWW’s behavior also. She says that she loved me all through the As, but she was looking for the next man to make her happy, to trade me in. That is easier to understand than to forgive, but that was then and this is now.

m334455,
This may sound a little heartless, but as though you did not have enough to deal with having a new child, recovering after pregnancy, and you work issues there is now a serious issue with your FWS. I guess I really am jaded to see this as him trying to reclaim your attention, and I hope this is a transient or treatable condition. He is an adult and while you can be concerned for him, even his health problems are not yours to own.

DP, how are you doing? Do you have a calendar count down in place?

FWW continues to speak to me in my love language, and I feel loved and desired. It has only been weeks, and only time will tell when I will believe this is permanent and sustainable, but I am where I wanted to be with her and in my M. I believe that we have R’d our M, and any issues forward are M issues not the result of the infidelity. FWW says that it was looking for apartments and facing the reality of the separation we were planning back in October that flipped the switch for her. Only time will tell if this was a real change in her perception/behavior, or this is nothing more than self-protection on her part since she is unemployed and must rely on me for income.

-Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Finally doing what I probably should have done months ago. I am calling the lawyer back today to start work on the separation agreement. Just typing this out makes me feel sick but I KNOW it has to be done.

We had another talk last night. Yeah I know 7yrs and his talks. Well anyway as expected nothing has really changed except she is accepting that she needs to be happy with what she has until GOD sees fit to provide her more. This is actually a good attitude for her to have and one I have been trying to get her to see for months. She is responsible for her own happiness and joy. Of course once I try detaching she "gets it". So the question I ask her is basically where do I fit into this new understanding of you being where you need to be. Of course I don't fit in. I am suprisingly okay with this as well. It just reaffirms what I have known all along. She has no clue what is going on with herself but hey maybe she is makign some small changes. either way those changes don't involve me so time to move on.

We talked some more and she talked about how she wasn't happy. I kind of steered the conversation and she finally got around to saying that she thought she was going to be happy in the marriage and something was wrong around month 6 of the marriage. She had no idea how to talk to me so she choose to have the first affair back then. She basically became the dry drunk back then. She just wasn't happy didn't know why and chose to have the A with the coworker a few years later. I asked her if she even recognized the pattern she just went described. I basically told her that I would never feel safe with her again because she doesn't know how to address her issues. Conversation then went to the lawyers and she bascially agreed to the terms we had briefly discussed last year so I figured now is the time to get it started to get it in writing.

The really sad thing for me in all of this and what really pushed me to take action this time was during this entire conversation it was obvious that while she felt guilty and maybe a little bad about what happened to me in all of this she was clearly still thinking about herself and what SHE needed to do and how SHE was affected and how SHE was not happy, etc. It was and probably always will be about her and that just SUCKS. So I have to get out. I have to save myself from this woman. I don't have the ability to wait hoping she may wake up and get it one day. If she will it won't be until after we have split up but I will ALWAYS be wondering when it will happen again. I will never feel safe. I have wasted 10 years of my life that I can't get back. I will never really completely trust any woman again and that's sad. Life truly is not fair and I really am going to try my best to not let this keep me down for long but this sucks. Time to let the hope go and try to move on.

I don't hate my wife. I will likely end up being decent friends with her but she knows something is wrong with her but she either doesn't see it or has been running for so long that she has no idea how to stop running. Her new thing is she doesn't trust men because everyone let's her down. When she included the 2 people that have ALWAYS had her back, her grandfather and me, I knew I was done. This is just the new deflection stance that she has in her head. I want to be happy again but I cant' do that while I am still married to my wife. I know that now. Anyway about to make the phone call. Later all.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:19 AM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey 7yearsflushed,

...and she talked about how she wasn't happy. <snip> she thought she was going to be happy in the marriage and something was wrong around month 6 of the marriage.

FWW could have (did?) say these same words after dday.

I don't hate my wife. I will likely end up being decent friends with her ...

This is how I felt about FWW after the initial numb and anger. It really turned to pity and stayed there until she demonstrated that she was changing and I began to find new respect for her.

So long as your W is not owning AND addressing her issues, you are making the right choice. No matter how much you or her might want the M to work, as long as she is looking to you or others for her happiness she cannot be a full participant in the M.

As long as she has not owned and addressed her issues I believe that you are right that infidelity will happen again sometime in the future. Even if it did not, she would not be a full and healthy M partner. It would be a dysfunctional relationship.

Best Wishes,

Ats


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 12:13 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have been off the map since the holidays & I apologize that I have not read up on this board either.

I have not been ready to face the new direction I find myself facing.

WH has/had (i don't even know what term should go here) a problem with prescription pain meds. I knew he had binge type drinking incidents during his A which he described as a way to dull the guilt & shame he felt from his actions so that he could basically dive in deeper. He expressed low self esteem reverberating as a result of the A which started because the OW made him feel attractive, manly, virile, strong, sexy. Things he had never really identified with before, but that he liked. He indicates his self esteem issues began to improve several years ago when a mom at our daughter's preschool seemed interested in him. She didn't know the him the OW knew. She didn't know the sick, twisted, disgusting sexual things the OW knew, the things he was doing with OW that were making him feel terrible, but not terrible enough to stop. She didn't know that he was cheating on his wife to do all that. He could see himself through her eyes & be "clean" again. He started spending time with her, craving time with her "as a way of finding his way back to me." (whatever the hell that means)
She reminded him of me, but he couldn't have a relationship with me other than as the mother of his children because he felt he was too depraved for me. I was to be put on a pedestal. He wanted the dirty sex with OW that he didn't think he was supposed to have with the mother of his children. As such, I was special, I was sacred. The OW was a whore & could be treated as such. But he felt bad being with her when he had me. Not bad enough to quit!
He instead bolstered his self esteem & self image by associating with the mom at the school. However, she saw me there with my daughter, his daughter and I was very much pregnant. When she mentioned this to him, he was honest. It was his child & he had every intention of raising his family with me. Supposedly/Apparently (whatever), she lost interest in him.
He could no longer balance his two selves and turned to the Rx pain pills he was taking for a work-related injury. He started just taking them a little sooner than he needed them. Then he would take them even when his arm didn't hurt. He wanted to take them because they made him feel good, euphoric, happy. He hadn't felt that way in a long time, he needed to feel that way. Fast forward to June 2012, we go away after DDay for some time alone which we hadn't had at the advice of MC. I find the hidden pain pills, not declared at customs with the rest of Rx meds a few days in. He has taken more than he should have, it is easy to tell given the fill date on the bottle. I confront. He brushed it off & said he must have gotten off on his hours with the time changes and since it was a new Rx, this seemed plausible to an innocent moron like myself. however, I did tell him that this really worried me because I had a coworker whose DH was addicted to pain meds & I saw how devasting that can be. He assured me that other than his mess up, he was using responsibly. I asked that he flush the bottle when we returned & was told he did. I told him that I did not feel he needed the pain meds any longer & I saw the beginning of an issue. He needed to stop, just don't get anymore. It was left as he was doing just that.

Fast forward to after Thanksgiving: I find pain pills. Hydrocodone prescribed to take one every 6 hours. The fill date is less than 24 hours ago & he has taken about 2x the dosage. Some checking finds, he continued with 120 pills a month in July, Aug, & Sept but had no RX in Oct. When he got the one in November, he was going through them like mad. I flushed them and confronted.

I have asked him to seek help & leave the house. He admitted a problem within a few days, but that he can go a few weeks without them. He hasn't had any since Nov 28th. Other than some days of "not feeling well" and general lethargy, he appears to not be having withdrawals. He joined Narcotics Anonymous. He wants to start attending couples therapy at the church weekly and we have talked about restarting MC. I just don't know if he isn't too messed up to mess with...I am paranoid & confused & ashamed of not seeing the A, not seeing the drug abuse, confused about whether this man is worth any effort to rebuild anything. Wondering if trying to work with someone so broken which no realization of when he first became that way is even worth the thought.

If you have hung in this long, you deserve a medal. Thanks for listening.


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:07 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just don't know if he isn't too messed up to mess with...I am paranoid & confused & ashamed of not seeing the A, not seeing the drug abuse, confused about whether this man is worth any effort to rebuild anything. Wondering if trying to work with someone so broken which no realization of when he first became that way is even worth the thought.
Sorry MBP. I feel the same way about my WW. It sucks that we get stuck with all the misery and terrible aftermath of the crap they get themselves into. Everything you wrote about your husband still had him focusing on himself. Has he at least acknowledged what he has done to you and your family as he tries to get back on track or is it still all about him and his needs/wants?

I understand the paranoia confusion and shame. I didn't see anything or more accurately didn't allow myself to see anything while my W was in her A. Now all I see are her flaws, mistakes, and her futile attempts to fix things without the proper tools. It's like they recognize they are broken but instead of getting the proper tools to fix themselves they try to fix themselves with baseball bats or something and don't realize the continued collateral damage that they leave behind them. Sorry I don't have anything more to offer than encouragement.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 5:29 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

manybrokenpieces-
many of the WS had other issues and addictions going on in addition to the LTAs.
My FWH was a functional alcoholic for our entire marriage and dabbled in drugs as well.
They tend to be escapists who turn to substances and the LTAs to escape reality.
That being said-you asked him to get help and to leave the house.
Did he leave? where is he staying?
It does sound like he is taking some action by going to Narcotics Anonymous.Is that enough for you?
Do you think that he needs rehab? I also believe that all WS need to go to IC to figure out why they did what they did and what they can do to change and improve their lives.

IMHO MC should come much later.
They need to work on themselves first and then you can try to figure out whether the marriage can be saved.

After d-day my FWH hit bottom and went to AA. But not just once a week. he started it the way they recommend-attending 90 meetings in 90 days.
If your WH is not going to rehab then he should increase the number of 12 step meetings that he attends. He can probably go to AA meetings too.

Its up to you as to whether or not you want to continue to try to R.
Do not feel ashamed because you did not recognize that he had an addiction problem or that you did not suspect that he was having an affair!
We have all been there.

Everyone in the LTA tribe was blindsided and did not imagine that their spouse could betray them like this.

You are not alone.


ats- it sounds as if your wife finally hit bottom and 'woke up' to the reality of what her life would be like without you!
Amazing how the tough love approach works!
I'm glad that she is being the kind of wife that you deserve.



Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 11:11 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is going to Narcotics Anonymous (NA) meetings enough for me?
NA has meetings in our area 5 evenings a week...none on M or W. He is still working & on nights so he is going to about 2-3 meetings a week.
He does show remorse, but I can't help but feel all the work I put in up to this point was basically wasted...he wasn't communicating his issues. He was still turning to pain pills to avoid the uncomfortable situation he created in our marriage.
So, in short, No. I don't think going to NA meetings is enough.

Do I think he needs rehab?
I do not understand addiction, but I don't think he was addicted. I know he was abusing. I don't know with prescription pain pills where the line is there. He wasn't going dr to dr to score more, he wasn't buying on the street, we aren't in financial ruin, etc due to this. BUT he was hiding them, he was lying about them, he couldn't wait until the doctor would give him the next Rx & burned thru 10-11 pills a day until they were gone. Was he on the line of addiction, over it, teetering on the brink? I just don't understand addiction/abuse enough to know.

He does say that he is truly sorry for the hurt, the lies, the potential for disease he could have brought to me & our children, the betrayal of my trust, the breaking of our marriage vows, the shattering of his values, turning away from God, his lack of presence in our lives, his anger/picking fights, tainting the memories of the last 5 years of bdays, christmases, special events, vacations, & day to day, etc. I believe his is. Unfortunately, I can't trust him to remember that 2 years or 10 years from now at this point; some days I'm not even sure about 20 minutes.

I haven't seen him since Sunday (we go to church as a family then). He has embraced religion in the last 3-4 months--far more than I have ever known him to. We are supposed to talk Thursday or Friday when he will have a day off...

He continues to resist IC and I just don't feel he is serious in wanting to know the WHY here...I don't feel there is anything going on with OW or anyone else. I don't feel there has been anything with OW since the office NC email (deep down I don't, but the feelings have surfaced periodically but less often up to this last major cliff). But, I can't shake the fact that he could still lie to me about pain meds after all the damage & pain he watched me suffer over his lies & the A.

Ultimately, I guess I feel finished. I agree I don't think MC will help us if he won't push further to help himself. I feel I need him to recognize & work on the core issues that have manifested in his poor choices & substance abuse in order to trust him enough to reinvest in our marriage.

So, while I do know he feels terrible for the pain he has put me & his children through with the A, I don't think he is whole enough for rebuild a marriage with right now.

And it f*ing sucks that after 9 months of "R", this is my reality. I just feel numb now. I know that I would like to work on my marriage, I believe in the vows I made even if I question my choice of partner. But, I also feel my hands are tied. I feel the need to detach & live separate lives now. It is scary realizing that my H is so troubled, that our communication was so lacking, that I am left as a bystander to the traffic accident that is my WH right now. I can't be the EMT, I can't be the firefighter, I can't help him get through anything and I don't know if he will make it through. I don't know that there will ever be enough him to make an us. And it f*ing sucks because I was prepared to get through the devastation here only to realize I wasn't seeing everything clearly and there may not be enough to work with.

I am hopeful, but resigned at this point.


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 8:05 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

{{{{{Manybrokenpieces}}} You are in my thoughts and prayers. It might be helpful for you to go to Alanon meetings (or meetings of families of narcotic users) to help you understand the fallout of your WH's addiction. This doesn't mean that you are doing this to help him, but YOU.

Ats: It's good to hear that you are in a much better place. I pray all will go well for the new year.

NJgal: Thank you for all your kind words and support for everyone. You are a wonderful person.

I'm in a bad place. After another few days of another round of silent treatment, WH announces that he doesn't want any restrictions. I'm "smothering" him. He wants to go and come as he pleases without having to tell me where he's going. He will talk to OW in front of me. Telling me that I don't love him, I just want him there waiting for me when I go and do whatever (I don't go out at all, except grocery shopping and occasionally to see my mother in the nursing home) I asked him if he loved me and he says after his operation he is thinking about who he loves and who he doesn't. He doesn't want to live in this misery anymore and how he tried to make me happy all these years. How love is caring about another and taking care of them. I said I took care of you the best I could, and he says, yes the best you could, but you went out to do the things you needed to do. (I went grocery shopping and to my son's for 1 hour on Christmas day) I left the room, came back and told him that whether or not he didn't love me, or didn't like me or even hated me, I deserve respect as a person. That I am a good person. I left the room and then he stormed out of the house. I slept on the couch.

I'm shaking. I feel like I was beaten up and spun around to make me feel vertigo. I'm so full of extreme emotions: anger, grief, despair, sadness, etc. I can't seem to get a hold of them. I feel like a rag doll that was shaken so hard that my self esteem went flying and I can't find it anywhere. (there wasn't much left to begin with)

Thanks for letting me vent.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
trynhard
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Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:11 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7rys... what ATS says is dead on...
So long as your W is not owning AND addressing her issues, you are making the right choice. No matter how much you or her might want the M to work, as long as she is looking to you or others for her happiness she cannot be a full participant in the M.

I will share what my sex therapist teaches. Topic: Fixing our spouses. He says.. Let them fix themselves. You always treat them in a caring, loving, intimate, giving, and sexual manor. And DEMAND they treat you the same! NO MATTER What history they have.

My W had something happen to her in youth. I know she was in a very controlling, physical abusive relationship leading to her abortion right before her clean cut, nice, class favorite, hard working, easy going, “college boy” came to her rescue. My W’s best friend growing up is a lesbian. For all I know, she had sex with this girl, her brothers, uncle, cousins, “whoever”… BUT I KNOW THIS TODAY… I don’t care about any of that. It is not up to me to tell her how to fix herself or even tell her to FIX herself... I DON”T CARE. She can fix herself or not. All I know is that I treat my W as good as it gets. In return, she had better be treating me in reciprocity. That is all you can do.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:24 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Manybrokenpieces.. NJgal is the expert in how to handle additions.. I think she made a great post to you.

I am paranoid & confused & ashamed of not seeing the A, not seeing the drug abuse, confused about whether this man is worth any effort to rebuild anything. Wondering if trying to work with someone so broken which no realization of when he first became that way is even worth the thought.

I know an addicted person cannot reason.

NEVER ever think anyone cannot be a clear communicator, it is a weakness but it can change. An adulterer can always NOT commit infidelity. Cheating is always by choice and they cannot tell you before because it is such a human flaw. There is a moral right and wrong. When you are moral right, the pain is far less for both.

This is the moral right…. “honey, I am not getting whatever.. I am going to LEAVE YOU and find what I need”

So tell me why you are ashamed? Confused?

Let me tell you, when someone is immoral, they are on the highest level of good lying. They will be the best at it! Why? Because who in their right mind would want to face mental pain of getting exposes?

I can tell you not to have those feelings but You must believe something.

No I am not perfect. But if I do not know from my spouse my imperfections I cannot change and be the person they want me to be. Therefore, it can never be my fault. It was there communication issue, not mine. And I will always communicate to my spouse and NEVER be like they were to me.

Peace.

[This message edited by trynhard at 8:27 AM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 8:52 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest…

May I make a suggestion. You plan ahead, do not get rattled, and start treating your H like a school project. You know he is a narc so try and have some fun with this and move away from the misery.

So let’s look at his behaviors and how you are going to react to them…

Silence treatment – he is trying to make you react. This is how you react and you are going to piss him off. Let it happen. You are doing it with purpose.

“H, I read online that the silent treatment always comes from humans that do not know how to communicate in healthy ways” Then never pay him any attention until he speaks.. do not cook him dinner, no words, no touching, no nothing!!! when he does speak REWARD HIM… “Good you are healthy again, you came out of your silence. What do you want of dinner tonight?”

that kind of stuff.

Husband.. “You don’t love me”
Wife, “I don’t love anyone who does not love me like he promised, You get the love you give.”

Husband, “He doesn't want to live in this misery anymore”
Wife, “I don’t either, OK I need $100,000 and this house for our son” “You are free to go” or "turn your life around, divorce you other wife, come home and be in a marriage like marriages are suppose to be."

Sleeping on the couch..

Wife, “Please sleep on the couch for now on”
Husband, “Not me”
Wife “OK.. “
Let the dog sleep on the pillow all day and put it on his side.
Load up with a whole bunch of perfume
Keep tossing and turning.. Look at it as your new form of exercise. Toss and turn marathon.

Honest. You need be make his life misery when he comes over. Place pressure on HIM.. Look at all this as a project of some sort.. You are doing it just to see how he reports.

Tell us what you are going to do, predict a response.. then report to us the results.

If he gets violent.. Call the police! Have some courage!

[This message edited by trynhard at 9:02 AM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

honesttoafault,

I'm shaking. I feel like I was beaten up and spun around to make me feel vertigo.

You were beaten up and spun around; NPD knows exactly which buttons to push.

He has recently relied on you to care for him. HE was in need. Despite his historic treatment of you, you stepped up and cared for him. Maybe you were gone an hour here and there to get food or conduct business, but I suspect you were available to nurse him the other 22-23 hours in the day. With this "debt" to you as Mr. NPD would see it he is feeling very uncomfortable. He is feeling a loss of control. He needs to re-establish his feeling of confidence and superiority, so he tears you down. He projects his guilt on to you so that he does not have to feel indebted.

I will tell you that as I read your description of his complaints, nothing was a surprise. What he expressed verbally is what I have always presumed he felt and thought (depending on HIS mood) based on your previous descriptions.

…and told him that whether or not he didn't love me, or didn't like me or even hated me, I deserve respect as a person.

He is not capable of loving you (or anyone) nor respecting you (or anyone). It is not you; it is him. He is crazy making. We all have faults and do things to irritate others, but he is incapable of communicating his needs to you or feeling empathy with you. There is nothing that you can do that would result in any type of healthy relationship with him. He is incapable of it.

I suspect his OW has similar feelings of abandonment. Who did he go to for care and support when he was sick and at risk, you.

I feel like a rag doll that was shaken so hard that my self esteem went flying and I can't find it anywhere. (there wasn't much left to begin with)

This is on you. It is your self-esteem. How can you get to a place where others do not dictate how you feel about yourself? I do not mean this to feel like a swinging 2x4, but you cannot GIVE him this level of power.

No (reasonable) things you do will affect this situation good or bad. He is not capable of a healthy relationship, let alone a M. What can you do that moves you along the path to your goals? Do not worry what Mr. NPD will think, because he will think and feel what he wants regardless of your actions or inactions. Nursing him back from open-heart surgery resulted in him attacking you. If that level of servitude resulted in an attack, it is not reasonable to think you can better manage him. So manage you. You do not need to openly disrespect him, but you owe him nothing.

In his mind, you cannot be a good person, for that would question his standing. You must always be the bad person. You could win the lottery, share 250 million cash with him, arrange threesomes with cheerleaders and models and he would still find reasons to blame you for his unhappiness and guilt. You could convert to his religion and culture, invite the OW and OC into your house, visit theirs’ and treat them as beloved family members and he would still blame you for his unhappiness and insecurity. You could wait on him hand and foot through an illness… oh wait, you already did that.

There is a current post from longterm member razor where he is (again) facing his reality. He can see the reality, but is not ready to take action yet. I belive that you are in the same place honest. There is nothing new here. This is not Mr. NPD suddenly being angry with you, this is who he is. I am not telling you to do anything more than work on putting your needs first, your children's second... and that is it. Mr. NPD's needs (and they are mammoth) are not your concern or responsibility.

One last thought, you cannot nice someone back into the M.

((honesttoafault)) I am sorry this is your reality and I wish I could make it better.

--Ats

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:43 AM, January 16th (Wednesday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3968 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:51 AM, January 16th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryn and Ats: Thank you so very much for your responses.
Ats, you are 100% correct that my self esteem is on me. I did need your 2 x 4's. You are right, there is nothing I can do or say to have him even act nice. Which is all I wanted at this point. Just some kindness, just simple "normalcy" of talking. I was like a pet dog that put up with abuse and was so happy just to get a pat on the head or some little attention. How pathetic is that?
I wasn't even looking for him to be grateful, just some kindness and respect.

Tryn, the problem is, especially if you read the NPD thread, you cannot poke the NPD beast! I guess all along I knew this to the depths of my being and was living in fear. Fear of retaliation. Fear that he'll stop paying money and let the house foreclose (it's in his name, although I put a large chunk of money down and he took a home equity loan out that is now worth more than the house)

I can't thank you guys enough. I needed a lifeline, and you extended your care and concern.
This tribe has saved my life so many times. Now I have to save mine.
I kept thinking of the saying "I have to put on my big girl panties..." but, unfortunately, I think they are either lost or stolen or torn to shreds.


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