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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 2:14 AM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pippa - it is probably all the things you mentioned. This is a time of year when you are reminded of three separate grief-inducing things and dealing with major holidays too.

Dealing with the discovery of an LTA emotionally is very much like dealing with a sudden death for the BS. Even my WS, who was rather clueless for some time (ahem measurable in years) after Dday understood this instinctively and had it reinforced by his IC as well.

So, realize that some times will be harder than others - but that doesn't mean things aren't going well overall!

Spend some time doing things to nurture yourself at these times. It will help a lot.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 8:41 AM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rye Bread and 7 yrs-

All you can do is detach and follow the 180.

The main requirement for reconciliation after infidelity (and especially after a LTA) is a remorseful WS that is 100% on board with trying to do everything in his/ her power to save the marriage.

If the WS is sitting on the fence and not sure if they want the marriage then there is nothing that you can do.

The 180 is described in the Healing Library (yellow box on the left of the screen). Click on articles.

There is also an older book by James Dobson- Love Must Be Tough. He is a Christian author and very much in favor of marriage. But, in the case of situations where the spouse thinks that he/she is 'in luv' with the affair partner or is just not sure that they want to be married....Dobson gives advice as to how to practice a tough love approach.
No begging or pleading for them to stay. It's an older book so you can find it at a reduced price on Amazon but may be able to find it in your local library. It may give you some additional tips on how to handle this.

Pippa-
Infidelity is traumatizing. And it takes a long time to 'get over' it-if we ever really do.
Acceptance is more of a realistic goal.
I was on an emotional roller coaster for a few years after d-day. One day thinking that I was OK and had forgiven him and was happy that I had decided to reconcile....and then...BAM! some kind of trigger would hit and I would begin to question how I could possibly forgive such a terrible betrayal...

so, be kind to yourself... you're dealing with a lot of triggers and memories at this time of year.

m33- I'm keeping you in my prayers for a healthy and safe delivery.

ats- sounds like you are in a good place....great news on the job.

trying- great advice as always...and lots to think about.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

welcome Rye & Pippa to our own little corner of the world that no one wants to be a part of...
7yrs--good to hear you upbeat.
m3--happy baby birthin vibes your way.

Tryn--perhaps you are right, I haven't given Dr. L a fair shake in all this. After all, my attempts were smack in the middle of the A when he basically didn't give two shits about what I did or didn't do. You bring up a good point of reciprocy with IC hit on this week as well which I share with all.
It is WH bday this week & I am just not feeling a present for him or even my usual I love my hubby, happy bday card. I picked up a generic happy bday card to give to anyone & called it good. My IC pointed out that lately he has been doing everything I asked & then some to pave the road for building trust, and it is important that I acknowledge his efforts; his bday would be a good opportunity to start...idk if I am fully able to let go & invest myself right now in a Dr. L mentality or even extend myself to praising his behavoir. You are right in doing for ME, knowing me & taking care of me. That is all I have the energy to concentrate on now & if I stay there, I am feeling pretty good.
I am still surprised that occassionally I am just suddenly ANGRY at WH even when he isn't doing anything now, just ANGRY that he could do this to me in the first place, angry that he was capable of this betrayal. I am working on getting past the anger & allowing the trust to be built again--this is my stumbling block 7 months out from DDay...feeling like I am loosing a little of my bolstered confidence that our marriage can survive.


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 4:39 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

manybroken-
Your bursts of anger are normal.
I had this happen to me often after d-day.
A thought or realization would hit me and I would get so angry at what he had done!

I do agree with your MC about trying to acknowledge his efforts at reconciling.
But I also understand your difficulty with this.
Why buy a birthday card at all?
Why not just go out to dinner for his birthday? or to a movie?and celebrate it that way?
This way you acknowledge his bday and do something fun for yourself as well.

Remember...its baby steps in terms of coming back together as a couple.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
deeppurple
♂ Member
Member # 28757
Default  Posted: 7:44 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ats - so good to hear about the positive developments with work.

Deep is waiting to hear if the board have accepted our revised business plan for the next 12 mnths however the outlook for the next 3 months is pretty grim. In reality it is a business with run down assets as the owners dont/wont invest in new plant - if it was my money - sell the buiness & realise the value of the undeveloped land. Believe that his is likely early 2014 if orders dont improve into first quarter 13.

M - you can uncross your legs now. A safe delivery for the new man in your life.

I struggle daily without the contact of my kids. STBWW has sent a nasty letter to MIL- very upsetting or her to receive this.She fears loosing contact with her grand kids. We both struggle with the out right hostility & resentment WW has towards me.I pray for the day when the karma bus hits.

Take care tribe

[This message edited by deeppurple at 7:46 PM, November 17th (Saturday)]


Me - BS 49
Her - WS 43
Married 16 yrs (together 17 yrs)
DD13 DS10 DS8 DS6
DDay 1 6.4.2010 dday 2 7.25.2010
Heading for divorce.
"Never look down on someone unless you are helping them up"

Posts: 522 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Where the sun is shining & the surf is pumping
TarnishedSilver
♀ Member
Member # 37166
Default  Posted: 4:50 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just wanted to say Thank you to all of you that support this long term affairs thread.
I find myself coming on this thread often.

I feel better when I read and understand I am not alone, there is nothing wrong with the way I am feeling right now.

Thanks all!


Me-BS (47)
Him-WH (48)
Married 26 years together 31
2 teenagers
Dday #1- 2/20/2011
Dday #2- 1/08/2012

Healing myself is now my top priority.


Posts: 156 | Registered: Oct 2012 | From: USA
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 9:13 AM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

manybrokenpieces

I just read that book and how it relates to me, a man.

She’s nailed what a man needs. It does not mean I agree with all her values not in this book. I certainly have values that you can divorce your spouse and it will not mess up your kids. My value is kids get mess up because the parent is messed up.

So you know, I think you need to accept this is going to take 24 months plus before some of the feelings you have start to fade. This is what you are signing up for... when you choose to reconcile. I can honestly say it too me 40 months post dday for all my fears in my marriage to go away.

I know this works… I am loving my wife to the best of my ability. With intent, I fill my wife's every need. She had better love me to the best of her ability. I can fear, but I have courage. My courage will cause us both pain…. I know the pain won’t last for long. If I am not good enough, I just don’t care, she can go do whatever she wants, be with whoever she wants. I am the catch. I know how to be the best possible partner becasue I studied it, I changed... and No good woman would risk losing me. A bad woman might, but not a good one.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All...I too seemed to have missed a lot. Tryn...thank you so much for your quality woman list. I so appreciate your kind words. M3...sending prayers for a healthy delivery...and hopefully soon. Manybrokenpieces...your anger is completely normal. There are days where I am overwhelmed by my own still. My wh and I continue on the journey of R. It can truly be exhausting. Now that he is finally communicating with me, we actually have to learn how to do it effectively and constructively. He continues to work hard, so as long as he is, so will I. Somedays it is hard though...still having mindmovies and many thoughts about how much there is for me to eventually accept and try to forgive. I guess all I can do is keeping working and hope that time will help. As usual...thank you all. Though I don't post often...I'm always lurking. You all help me keep my sanity somedays.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 470 | Registered: Aug 2012
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 6:27 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I've been lurking, too... Not enough energy to post about my situation. Sending out lots of love and support to you all....

So last week I had a conference in San Diego and WH decided to take the week off and come with me, and bring the kids. Given that the whole point of these things is to network and learn new stuff, I warned him that I wouldn't be able to spend a lot of time with him and the kids... He was good with that. So we all got there Mon, I had a day of meetings Tues, took Wed off and did Sea World, then burgers on the beach afterwards... Thurs and Fri I worked, but Fri night we hired a sitter, went to dinner, and then went to a conf party.

It really showed he was making an effort, but I felt oddly disconnected from him. I should have been able to enjoy this lovely family time... On the flight over I got stuck on something he did wrong and all I could think about was how that showed his lack of empathy for me. (he didn't offer me the "good" headphones. I don't hear well - my dad whacked me one when I was young - so I don't have my own set, but you need them on planes to hear the movies. I was working most of the time, so WH was using the good ones and gave me the ones that weren't being used -- which are really pretty useless for me -- until I made a fuss about it).

Ridiculous, right? But it sent me into a real funk. and I kept thinking along the "am I ever going to feel happy with this person again?" lines.

And he was trying so hard.

The good news is that we got back, and he gets an email this morning that he's being offered a job! Part of the issue with his A was that he was living in another city one wk out of every month (where his job and his AP were located). So this gets him closer to home and away from the OW. (New job is about 40 miles away, yay.)

The emotional strain of all of this is so exhausting.


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 8:22 AM, November 19th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good Morning All,

It really showed he was making an effort, but I felt oddly disconnected from him.

Blobette,
At just a few months out this is not an unexpected feeling. It is sustained effort and improvement over time that creates the safer environment where the BS can rebuild attachment and trust.

gave me the ones that weren't being used -- which are really pretty useless for me -- until I made a fuss about it

Could you have communicated your need without making a fuss? I would be reluctant to offer the better earphones to my W if I had been using them because I would be sure she would have an "ear wax" issue or some other thing. If she said: "Atsenaotie, I cannot hear with the earphones you gave me to use, may we trade?" I would gladly, or shared. Not expecting our spouse to be a mind reader or to remember all of our idiosyncratic needs is something we both had to work on to improve the M.

Deep, I am so sorry to read how your WW keeps lashing out at those around her. You will be free of this eventually. I also how this can create tension between your MIL and you when she means well, but is worried of loosing all contact with her daughter and grand children,

Hi Tryn, keep preaching the good gospel. I am jealous that your W is stepping up to meet your needs when you have expressed them. Looks like it will be ND versus the SEC for the BCS.

njgal, thank you for continuing to follow my story and offer insights. My life is good right now.

There was a time I would have considered the current state of my M as good too. But that was before dday, and even worse, the post dday realization that my W had resented me and been detached for most of our M. Now I feel I need more than just OK to continue. I needed her to demonstrate clearly and in a sustained way that she wanted to be with me, more than just not leaving. She says how stressful and uncomfortable it was maintaining her As, but she did, for years. I can only think that she did so because the rewards out-weighed the effort. With me, the benefits to her do not seem to be worth so much effort.

m334455, so, are you just putting off delivery until after Thanksgiving?


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, November 19th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Tribe...I think I need some help. I'm just having a hard time right now. How can I accept and move on from all of this? I haven't asked for details in a long time and yet I find myself wanting them again...is this normal? I feel like I'm moving backwards but then another part of me thinks I can only take so much at once without having a complete breakdown. Ughh...this sucks so much.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 470 | Registered: Aug 2012
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 9:01 PM, November 19th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Teach,

You can ask for details all you want. Your WS should accommodate all your requests. Just try to make sure you don't start a conversation when you or he are running out the door.

I ask at least one question every other day, sometimes every day. Sometimes I just need to vent and my WW just smiles an says 'go ahead.'

Your H had a long term affair. He should expect to answer all questions over the long term.

My opinion. Good luck.

This sh*t sucks we all know.


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:02 PM, November 19th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach-
Your d-day was very recent.
I was still asking for details 2 yrs after d-day!
And I thought about the affair every day.....most of the day.
It's normal.
Finding out about a LTA is traumatic. It feels like our entire life was a lie. That's why I think we keep asking questions about the affair-we want to see if the story stays the same.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
atsenaotie
♂ Member
Member # 27650
Default  Posted: 9:03 PM, November 19th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi teach8.

To get past it all you first have to go through it all. Process it, understand it, and accept it. After a 7 year LTA, then 4 months of TT, I think it is understandable that you are still on the rollercoaster.

What I found as I worked through my healing was that I still had deep tips in the rollercoaster that felt like backsliding, but the time between them began to increase. They were just as painful, but they went from daily to a couple a week to weekly. Only when they were a few weeks apart did I feel like the dips and anger were not so traumatic. Getting to feeling healed took me 18-24 months after dday (12 months after the last TT).

I never got all the answers I wanted, WW just quit answering. I think that is a part of why I continued detaching to the point that I cannot now see us staying together.

Rather than avoid what is painful or uncomfortable, lean into it. Examine it, why does it hurt you. Asking your FWS questions about details is saying I want to get past this, I want to stay with you. The times the As and lack of honesty from FWW have hurt the least is when I have been detached and ready to leave. I have no questions then. The painful questions were only there when I still cared.

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 9:06 PM, November 19th, 2012 (Monday)]


LTA BS 53
FWW 60
M 1990, dday 10-5-09
Reconciled

Posts: 3967 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: FL
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 9:21 PM, November 19th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with all, Teach. No reason not to keep asking. He should be good with that.

I am curiously uncurious. I feel WH is being honest and answering any questions. I just don't have many. He had an affair. I know they had sex, I know how they contacted each other, Iknow what they talked about together , I know what they did (but not the sexual details. I really, really,do NOT want to know.) I know the rough timeline, I know they called it off for a while but then resumed. What more d I need to know? The big questions are the WH questions, and we're working on that.

Not very helpful, I'm sure...


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 7:57 AM, November 20th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being selfish here – have posted in Gen “Help with letter to BH, 5ys after the last one”

Any advice? Almost at the point to go and stick a knife in her back or pack my bags and walk. Mr UKg is resolutely inactive about it all. I think he gets a little kick from the fact his mistress is still pining and that is very unattractive.
**************

m33 - We're waiting......


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:04 AM, November 20th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach, it's different for everyone. I also think it depends on how long the A was as well. The longer the A the more the BS questions things from the past. There is just more ground to mentally cover.

My WW gave me info but never gave me all of it. Honestly I would probably never find out all of it anyway. For me I stopped caring about the details when I realized that my true problem was with my wife. Her actions were a symptom of her own issues. So knowing the remaining details became less important than getting her to work on herself.

The 2nd part of this was that I really stopped caring when I decided my energy was better spent on myself and my healing. I don't know for sure what is going to happen in my M but detaching gave me a better perspective on things.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:18 AM, November 20th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

One question I have about all the questions is what am I searching for?

I have all the salient details. I am down to 'what were you thinking on this day when you then did this later' kind of questions.

I don't remember much about what I was thinking a year or two ago. So what am I expecting to find? Not to mention she was an addict (she realizes this) - she herself can not really understand what the hell she was thinking; how should I?

I am concerned that I am clinging to the drama or something about the affair.

What am I hoping to find in picking through the rubble of the A?

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 12:22 PM, November 20th (Tuesday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 12:43 PM, November 20th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach--I went back & forth on the details too. For me, I knew I wasn't getting the answers initially. He was avoiding, rugsweeping, even out & out lying for my first fews months of questions.
When I first felt that he was being truly honest with me & we were talking about things, I doubted everything he had told me in the beginning. I would go for hours in the middle of the night thinking about everything, writing down my thoughts, questions, previous answers to questions. I suddenly felt like I wanted to ask all of these same questions I had asked in the beginning all over again--now that it seemed he was willing to talk the truth. After I asked those & felt like I had gotten truthful responses, I have relaxed on the details of who, what, when, where, why. With the sheer # of years involved, I finally had to conceed I wouldn't know it all and find that I was ok with that.
But, that isn't a permanent feeling. If I find some particular thing is bugging me, I ask. IC recommended having a certain time of day or week, or whatever to ask anything I want & WH has to answer. That way we are both prepared for it & he doesn't feel like I could launch an attack at any moment. MC (new) seconded that & it seems to be working when we are able to set a time.

Like MCJACK, my question philosphy has changed to more of a describe your thoughts & feelings at this time. How did you rationalize your actions?
Digging to find who is this monster I married? Is he changing? Can I trust this change to be permanent? Have his views changed from then to now or would he make the same choices? How can we work to improve our communication to avoid assumptive & destructive thought patterns in the future?

Sounds like I am evolving, right? Ha! Other times, I am so mad at him for no reason I can express & don't want to be near him.

This is normal rise & fall of the rollercoaster. I gues some of the other posters have addressed it best for me recently--this is so new for us still. It is going to be like this for a very long time & that is ok. We are ok & normal. It doesn't make it any easier necessarily, but doubting your sanity on a regular basis cannot be constructive either!

This is a shitty time of year when family togetherness & happy holiday feelings just make you all that much more aware of WS's betrayal. Hang in there!


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 6:33 PM, November 20th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone! Mc...thank you. Its nice to know I'm still completely normal. Not sure if ill ever stop asking questions. Ats...you are so right...I do need to lean into my pain. I think sometimes the intensity of my anger scares the hell out of me. NJGal...thank you. I am trying to constantly remind myself how fresh this is. Even though sometimes it feels like forever. And the feeling like my entire life is a lie and my marriage is seriously killing me. 7yrs...I think you kind of nailed it. I think the length of his a has so much to do with my contant doubts. I know I have to concentrate on healing myself. It feels like I'm getting close sometimes and then I'm sucked into this downward spiral...the roller coaster is truly heinous. Blobette...you are right. It really isn't all about the sex. It is way more emotional than that. In someways these are the questions that hurt the most. Many...you sound like you are doing well. I guess there is always this fear of the unknown I have. What piece of the puzzle am I missing. The TT really screwed me up. As always...I so appreciate you all. This is the one forum that I ever start posts in. It is the only place I feel safe. Thank you LTA tribe.


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

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