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User Topic: Long Term Affairs - Part 30
SI Staff
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Default  Posted: 6:11 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Posts: 10000 | Registered: May 2002
Teach8
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Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 6:14 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Blobette...just pm'ed you since this was full before. :)


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 470 | Registered: Aug 2012
manybrokenpieces
♀ Member
Member # 37055
Default  Posted: 7:35 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

the standard line on SI is that it takes twice as long as the affair for the M to recover. Well, that puts us in the shit, doesn't it? I have to wait 14 years to be happy again...? Not really sure I'm up for that!

I would like to hope there is some fine print in this. Obviously, a 1.5 hour ONS takes longer than 3 hours to recover from...perhaps there is an asterisk *except in affairs lasting longer than 2 years, in which full recovery is achieved in equal or less time than the length of the affair...

what can I say? I am feeling optimistic these last few days


Posts: 51 | Registered: Oct 2012
cdnmommy
♀ Member
Member # 30182
Default  Posted: 10:09 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobette, I wanted to reply also. I have posted before that I prefer the 2 - 5 year timeframe to anything like "twice as long as...." I don't think anyone expects the victim of a ONS to get over it immediately. Nor is it reasonable to expect a BS of a 10 year LTA to endure 20 years of trying to heal. Who knows? Maybe it's a good rule of thumb for some affairs, but I am not convinced.

For me personally, I suspect it will take closer to 5 years, but it is just coincidence that fWH's A was 2.5 years. I just think of where I've come in 2 years, and although I expect to keep making progress, I suspect it will move slower now.


Me: BW
DDay: Oct 2010 + 6 weeks false R
2.5 (+?) year A with married coworker/my "friend"
1 great kid.
Reconciling and healing

Posts: 1683 | Registered: Nov 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:46 PM, October 24th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobette: Of course there is no definite time limit on the "healing" of any betrayal. 2-5 years is an estimate in general. I think, because of the length of a LTA, there are many factors involved such as whether the WS was an alcoholic, etc,. or had a lot of FOO issues that contributed to the reasoning for a LTA.

We, as BS's, also have to consider whether or not we are "codependents" also which can contribute to our "healing". And our own "foo" issues.

IC is a great resource to help us recover from a LTA. There is a LOT to process. It is not just the knowledge that our spouse slept with another a few times... it's another life that our spouses created and kept secret from us.


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 12:12 AM, October 25th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Tribe:

Thank you for everything!!!!
I guess we often forget how many prople "lurk" here,even people who often contribute. Everyone has helped me soooo much.

I just wanted to say that anyone who is "new" or is a "lurker", your contributions can help so much! For example, ManyBrokenPieces is a "newbie" but her insights have helped me, a "veteran LTA" ! Thank you.

For me, I'm over 3 years since Dday, with a ton of TT and gaslighting and still on the road to healing. I've been divorced once before to an xWH, so I know the deal. I was trying to avoid D because of financial concerns, kids, age, etc. I was trying to decide the lesser of 2 evils.

I am realizing at this late date that the best thing to do is to heal thyself!!!

Ats has been on the right road all along. He tried to heal his marriage, but also spent a lot of time on healing and bettering himself as to make a better decision.

I have been focusing toooo long on WH instead of myself.

That is the key.

HEAL THYSELF first.

It is difficult to say the least.

Another thing I have learned is that the marriage is that you thought you had is DEAD or did not exist in the first place.

This is a hard thing to accept. There is a mourning process that goes with that. It is a looong process.

If your WS decides that he/she wants to make a new commitment/ marriage to work out, there is a start.

As Tryn pointed out in a post to me:

I CHOOSE....

That was the hardest thing for me to do... Look up "codependent" and you will see "honesttoafault"

I haven't spoken to Mom in over a month, and of course she has called everyone she could from my neighbor to my xH to "ask" where I am!!
Guilt much?

I had to remove myself from her for awhile.

NPD drained me enough.

So, NPD went back overseas after the month long IV treatments (where I played "Nancy Nurse" to the hilt administering the antibiotics via IV) Cardiologists still feel he needs a triple or quadruple bypass, but NPD feels he HAS to go back overseas for business and of course to see the OC's "before he dies".

He's taking a chance on having a major heart attack that could be fatal by doing this.

He will supposedly come back again to have the bypass surgery.

If he survives long enough.

DAMN, I still love the bastard!!!!!!

OK, I'm still grieving. I'm still being emotionally abused. BUT, I'm finally realizing that I lknow I was going on my gut instincts all along.

Tryn, you have helped me more than you realize.

I have to take into account that we are essentially Divorced even though NPD still says to me that he loves me and I'm his only love.

It hurts, I grieve....it's taking a long time. I want the hurt to end.

[This message edited by honesttoafault at 12:13 AM, October 25th (Thursday)]


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:40 AM, October 25th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hang in there honest ... You'll figure it out.

My general LTA rule of thumb is that you personally will heal in 2 to 5 years. Main reason 2 is the minimum is b/c LTA also essentially requires a long term marriage. This is dependent on how much work you put into yourself, whether or not you try to R and if so what kind of progress your spouse makes and how you handle that.

Your marriage will not recover at all. It will either be rebuilt as a substantially different relationship, become unimportant to and largely ignored by you or it will end. You have to call a mulligan.

At least, that's my take.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, October 25th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Teach8 -- 7 years is absolutely NOT a "mistake" and don't let anyone use such a weak word to describe it. It's a deliberately deceptive course of conduct spanning over half a decade! "Mistake" my ass.

My WH and his LTA OW were FWB for 20 years! That is not a mistake -- it is a lifestyle choice.

Because I missed the memo on the "with benefits" part, I also spent 6 years thinking she was my friend too, and thus I actually had to confront both of them.

So, this is what I told them: I said people who choose not to cheat don't stay faithful because they lack opportunity or never desire others or don't wish for variety -- they do it because they made a promise and they choose to keep it. They make that choice for a variety of reasons -- for some it's their own view of their character, others value stability for their children or having a shared witness to their lives. You can't change or make up for or repair the damage you've done by breaking this promise, but you CAN choose to keep it as you move forward in life. The truth is -- the grass isn't greener on the other side, it's greenest where you WATER it.


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, October 25th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Blobette,
I felt good about me after about 3 years. I am a different person today. I am a stronger and better man today. I have improved values today. I changed by my own choice. This trauma is all about you.

Spit it out! Posting feeling, what's going on, opinions heals your mind.


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
Teach8
♀ Member
Member # 36521
Default  Posted: 3:57 PM, October 25th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

M334455- I couldn't agree more. This is not a mistake. I told my wh that it would have been nice to know I was in an open marriage, but apparently he forgot to tell me. At least then I could have had a choice as well. Of course, that isn't really what he wanted I guess. I do think there is true remorse and he is working to change. As am I. I certainly am codependent and need to work on that constantly. And you are so right...the grass is green where you water it. I don't think my wh so much as sprinkled our "grass" in 10 years, but he is now. So as long as he shows consistent growth, effort, remorse and dedication to our marriage, I am willing and want to work on us. I love my wh and I do want to R. I hope he can continue to do the work. Thanks m334455!


Me: BW. Him: WH. Dday: 4/26/12. TT until 8/15/12 LTA 7 years. Trying to R

Posts: 470 | Registered: Aug 2012
m334455
♀ Member
Member # 26893
Default  Posted: 4:12 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome. I think 3 years is a good rule of thumb to feel dramatically better. Tryn and honest just mentioned they are 3 years out -- so is ATS who just decided to D -- Tryn is in R -- several others who started here same time are now divorced and don't post much. Honest seems to have decided her best choice is to stay married and detach -- which makes sense -- her WH moved overseas and has a 2nd family and spends the lions share of his time with them but still fully financially supports Honest. I think I am in R. I was pregnant on Dday and am now expecting another within 10 days of antiversary


BW 38, 5 kids
Dday Dec. 2009

Posts: 4034 | Registered: Dec 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I started to see the light at the end of the tunnel about 4 yrs post d-day.

I still have my triggers and moments when my thoughts veer off into thoughts about the LTA or the OW but I am able to eventually push those thoughts aside and focus on today.

I was a total emotional wreck after d-day- I was in shock.
I became physically ill due to the stress and anxiety.

I kicked my FWH out of the house and needed meds for anxiety and depression.

I cried every single day, much of the day for over a year.
After that I would still have regular emotional breakdowns.

And throughout- my FWH was being the ideal husband.

He was extremely remorseful, willing to do whatever it took to save the marriage.

But, even with that level of commitment on his part it took me years to 'get over it'.

And...do we ever get over it?

Or do we learn to accept that it happened, that our spouses were that flawed and broken and toxic.

The big question is... have they shown growth?
have they actively been working on changing themselves?
have they owned up to their past behavior and admitted to huge character flaws? etc.

Simply ending the affair is not enough-well...it wasn't enough for me.

It took years of seeing consistent changes in my FWH as well as total transparency and lots and lots of very loving behavior toward me.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It took me about a year of pretty intensive work to start to feel better, but oddly the fact that XWH didn't make any real efforts to help me heal from what be had done helped me detach and move on. So all the work I did in year two was self love stuff. I didn't really deal with what it meant for OUR future, since I was sure we didn't have a future together. And I didn't have any love left for him, which also oddly helped. In addition, I have always been both independent and had pretty decent self-esteem. Given all that, my recovery period was relatively short... about two years. Those were two hellish years, though. Ugh.

Now, y'all, I'm in a bit of a quandary here... I have an acquaintance on FB who could really use a better place to get support and I would love to see her find her way to SI... but I really don't wanna be called out publicly if I give her the info and that's a definite possibility! So... what do I do?! Find out her home address online and send an anonymous note?! Seriously... ugh. What do you do when someone is such a trainwreck that they NEED this place but they're such a trainwreck that you might be shoved under the wheels if you approach it? Quandry.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

Posts: 2370 | Registered: Jun 2010 | From: Baby steps on my new path
Blobette
♀ Member
Member # 36519
Default  Posted: 9:58 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH is remorseful and all, but yesterday he brought up the possibility of stopping IC because, as far as he's concerned, he's figured out why he did it and doesn't need to think about that any more. The work that needs to be done is in the MC's office.

Personally, I think he needs to get his head out of his ass and work a bit harder on empathy. We had a bit of a crisis where I was really, really depressed and he went out for his regular Wed night tennis. Which I don't mind -- he needs his exercise. But then, he proceeded to go on for his regular post-tennis pub session with the boys. Which, again, I USUALLY don't mind. He's very responsible about drinking and he needs some buddies to blow off steam with. But... given that I was virtually catatonic with depression, maybe he might have thought "Blobette needs me, maybe I'll ditch the drink tonight?" Nope... I had to text him. And he did come. But it's that kind of thing. He's so used to being able to rely on me being self-sufficient etc that he has a limited capacity for imagining how I feel.

Anyway, he had a meeting with his IC this morning and they talked about that. The MC also hammered him on it, too, although he said, "If Blobette wants me to, I will." My answer was that I don't want him doing it because *I* want him to! I want him to do it because he should realize that he needs it!

ARRGGGHHHHHHH.

[This message edited by Blobette at 9:59 AM, October 26th (Friday)]


BS (me): 49
WS: 50
Married: 25 yrs
Kids: 2
OW: Co-worker, 7 yr LTA
DD 8/1/2012, Working on R

Posts: 1036 | Registered: Aug 2012
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi new to the I can relate forum. My wife had a 3 year LTA with a coworker. It's been over but we are currently headed down the path towards seperation and divorce. Seh has tons of issues that she would rather ignore than try to resolve so our marriage could move forward. I stuck aroudn for our 2 kids and i did/do still love her but i can't keep torturing myself so I decided to break the pattern we were in and successfully started the 180 for the first time about a month ago.

My question or issue is my WW seems to have forgotten how to relate to me at all. She doesn't want to do the work to address our issues. She seems to have put so much of herself into the A and ehr double life that even after 1.5 years she can't bring herself to learn how to be intimate or deal with me. Is the pattern that WS's in LTA's ahve been checked out for so long that they have a harder time dealing with the issues they caused in the marriage?

I have given up on her ever coming around. I will likely be filing at the first of the year after the holidays but I have this hope even if it's only 2% that the 180 may kick her hard enough in the ass but i doubt it. If she hasnt' put in the work for 1.5 years why would she start now?

Yes, both of us were codependant on each other so me breaking the cycle is the only thing I could do to keep myself sane. she has and always will be a runner instead of facing her issues so I don't really expect her to change.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
MC_Jack
♂ Member
Member # 35016
Default  Posted: 10:43 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey 7yrs:

First of all, I am glad that you have tried R. I wish you the strength to continue if you do love her.

What were you doing that you considered it torturing yourself? What were you doing different before the 180?

Everyone's situation is different. Had I done a 180 on my WW, we would be on the way to divorce by now. So that is why I ask. What is the 180 supposed to accomplish for you? I just hope you goals are related to your happiness as opposed to trying to change her.

I have read many posts by trynhard - he is the guy I look to for guidance. He has a lot to say about choosing to be a man for your WW, choosing actively meet her needs, communicate your need concretely, choose to forgive, etc. I suggest you go to the LTA part 29 thread and even earlier.

My WW had a 3 year LTA also, guy was sort of a co-worker but lived 2000 miles away. It also turned out he was a womanizer who was just using her. He did not have the same "feelings" during the A that WW had. Anyways, I am here to commiserate. PM me anytime.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 10:46 AM, October 26th (Friday)]


I am not a marriage counselor. I chose "MC Jack" in the spirit of a handle like "MC Hammer" or Young MC"...there is a lot of 'rapping' here, no? At the time I did not know what MC stood for on this site. Duh.

Posts: 792 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: West Coast of Hopa-hopa-land
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 11:44 AM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MC Jack, I am a "fixer". I spent the better part of a year trying to work on myself, be there for the kids and help her try to work on her issues. My issue is I didn't realize my wife was broken until after the A was discovered. By broken I mean abandoment issue with her father, mother died at a young age, assaulted twice in her life, etc. She was adopted. I never knew any of this. She hid her true self well. Neither of us were great communicators when we got married. We went to MC and IC and I learned about myself and better ways to communicate with my wife. She tried initially but she never learned how to deal with negative shit in her life and this was a big one. her coping mechanism is avoidance and running away form the problem.

So the last 1.5 years has been me trying to fix and her avoiding. She did try in teh beginning but I think when I triggered it just brought back guilt and she eventually just started shutting down on me. The torture I mentioned was me trying to help someone when they don't want to help themselves and have even stopped doing the things I need to stay in the marriage. In her mind if she pushes me away I will eventually make the decision for her and unfortunately I am at that point.

I never really 180ed prior to now because I know what pressure does to her but nothing else has worked so I am 180ing for myself to get distance and start to be cool with me. I can't allow my marriage or failed marriage to define me. I can't fix it if she isn't going to participate so I have to move forward for my own sanity.

Over the last few months it's like she has had a midlife crisis. She is going back to school, volunteering, trying to better her career, focusing on the kids, all great things with one exception. She has stopped spending time trying focusing on us. Completely gone int eh other direction and I see the burnout coming. She hasn't been sleeping at night but to me it's pretty obvious, she hasn't dealt with what she did to the marriage and the fact that I was still here makes it even more baffling to her. Like I said my last little ember of light is when she eventually crashes and she will. It's obvious from the pattern of how she handles bad shit in her life "maybe" she will realize that she would still have her family if she wants to work on it. I was not even asking for overnight. I was willing to go to counseling again and everything but I can't just put my life on hold for her anymore.

So the 180 is completely for me. I was just wondered if WS's after LTA's typically take a long time to figure out how to deal with the spouses post A.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 11:45 AM, October 26th (Friday)]


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7 yrs-
Is your WW in IC? Sounds like that would be the place for her to start. If she refuses to go considering all of her issues-it's unlikely that you can begin to work on R. she needs to figure herself out first.

Also... there does seem to be a pattern with some of the WW who have LTAs in terms of how they react post d-day.
You may want to read on some of the older LTA forum threads.
There's a lot of wisdom there from many of our male LTA tribe!

Nell- do you and this woman have mutual friends?
Maybe you could discuss her problems with this friend and suggest that the friend be the one to tell her about SI.

Blobette-
I think IC is so.... important for the WS that I don't care how or why they go.

I think that you as the betrayed wife have a right to demand that he continue in IC.

The fact that my FWH went to IC, and MC, and AA, and Christian counseling made me feel like maybe this man would truly 'get'it and there would be a chance for R.

In my case he went to IC on his own (for 1 and 1/2 yrs) and he still continues to go to AA (over 5 and 1/2 yrs).
But... I was the one that demanded MC.

And... he has pledged that he will continue going to AA indefinitely to show his commitment to change.

I think IC was key for my FWH in terms of working on the character flaws that all WS have. You have to..in order to justify a LTA.
A few short sessions only scratch the surface.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 2:36 PM, October 26th (Friday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
7yrsflushed
♂ Member
Member # 32258
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Is your WW in IC? Sounds like that would be the place for her to start. If she refuses to go considering all of her issues-it's unlikely that you can begin to work on R. she needs to figure herself out first.
I agree IC is the way to go for my wife but she refuses. She went to a few sessions and as soon as they started getting into real stuff she quit. So I agree 100% with you and that is why I am at the point I am at. I can't force her to figure herself out and I can't R by myself.

Off to read older posts.


D-day 5/24/11
BH = Me
STBXWW = Her
2 children
The first true sense of calm I felt in YEARS was when I filed for D...
Separated 6/2013, D official around 6/2014

Posts: 1585 | Registered: May 2011
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 2:38 PM, October 26th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

7yrs- Interesting....so often people quit IC when it starts touching on the 'real' issues.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
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