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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 12:20 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Defeated Dad,

My XH hates holidays. Always has, always will. It has nothing to do with my cheating and everything to do with his pathologically introverted nature. He hates having to talk to people but is too conflict-avoidant to decline invitations.

So, I enjoy myself and enjoy spending time with our friends. I eat heartily. I love on our friends' kiddos. I don't let him ruin my holidays anymore. I had enough of that when we were M.

This is all because his grinchy nature is not due to my cheating. If it were, I'd likely take a different approach.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
DefeatedDad
♂ Member
Member # 41026
Default  Posted: 12:34 PM, November 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Defeated Dad,
My XH hates holidays. Always has, always will. It has nothing to do with my cheating and everything to do with his pathologically introverted nature. He hates having to talk to people but is too conflict-avoidant to decline invitations.

So, I enjoy myself and enjoy spending time with our friends. I eat heartily. I love on our friends' kiddos. I don't let him ruin my holidays anymore. I had enough of that when we were M.

This is all because his grinchy nature is not due to my cheating. If it were, I'd likely take a different approach.

Are you guys reconciling or not? Doesn't sound like it. Apart from your affair why would you R with someone who is socially incompatible with you?


Me - BS 46
Wife - WS 44
Son 13, Daughter 17
Married 22 years
D-day May 16, 2012
TT D-Day 2 9/25/17
TT D-Day 3 1/02/14

Divorcing her sorry a--.


Posts: 217 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: New Mexico
allatsea
♂ Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, November 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello again, Divorcing BS here.

9 months on from DDday my CSTBXWW has cemented her new relationship by taking my children, moving in with him and getting pregnant.

Despite me trying to be reasonable and fair in all matters, she has become the most spiteful, lying and deceitful person I've ever known and is trying her best to remove me from the children's lives as much as possible.

My question is about why she is the angry, nasty and disgusting person who hates me and is using the kids as a weapon? She had the affir and grenaaded our family.
Shouldn't I be the one to act this way, not her?!

I've heard that guilt and cognitive dissonance can cause this but something still doesn't seem right. If I had done this I would be trying to be as nice as possible after destroying them in the most painful way

[This message edited by allatsea at 7:01 AM, November 28th (Thursday)]


Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now pregnant
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 524 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, November 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DefeatedDad,

We are compatible enough in other ways. And re: the holidays, he IS better than he used to be. It's just a sore subject for me because I remember how unpleasant holiday gatherings used to be.

Part of why we're reconciling is it's easier to than not. Part is because we love each other, warts and all. I know I have personality traits that piss him off too.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
leftoolate
♀ Member
Member # 22658
Default  Posted: 4:09 AM, November 29th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi allatsea,

While you have an extreme case of *aargh* on your hands, I'll try to share anyway, from my slightly less crazy perspective.

My question is about why she is the angry, nasty and disgusting person who hates me and is using the kids as a weapon? She had the affir and grenaaded our family.
The angry, attacking, disgusting person comes from the same place as the person who had the family-destroying affair. They are rooted in the same evil - in fact, they're one and the same person. She's simply not continuing to be the person that had the affair, and is now escalating on her way out. Yes, it is horrifying, even to watch from afar through a screen - but to those of us who don't know her IRL, it's not that surprising. I am so sorry.

Shouldn't I be the one to act this way, not her?!
No one has a right to act this way. Not you, not her, nobody. Unfortunately, she doesn't seem to see that.

I've heard that guilt and cognitive dissonance can cause this but something still doesn't seem right. If I had done this I would be trying to be as nice as possible after destroying them in the most painful way
In your case, something like this could, hypothetically, be an outcome of reducing the cognitive dissonance brought on by guilt and shame over the actions you hypothetically committed. However - that requires cognitive dissonance. Could it be that your wife's actions actually match her cognitions? Of course we can all rattle of the socially acceptable veneer of 'cheating is wrong, pitting your kids against their parent is wrong', et. But her real, deeper seated cognitions could very well place her own (imagined) gains over anybody else's well being. I personally think she has her cognitions all twisted up and her emotional priorities all over the place. Which isn't unusual in a person with borderline personality disorder. I don't believe you're dealing with run of the mill cognitive dissonance here. If you wer, you'd see either a change of cognition (common) or a change in behaviour (putting energy to align actions with cognitions, less common perhaps).

Yes, you would be as nice as possible after screwing up so horribly. She doesn't see that she has screwed up so horribly, so she has no motive for improving her behaviour. Again, I'm very sorry.

Best of luck,
~L.


If you came this far, you're looking for something. - Jrazz

Posts: 811 | Registered: Jan 2009 | From: Europe
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:45 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

allatsea,

I would see it as your WW entrenching herself deeper into the mindset that this is all your fault, and every word, every action is simply cementing the the fact in her mind that she has no fault in any of this. I think the escalation is a matter of her fighting withing herself the fact of what she's done and what she is doing with what she knows is morally right. Does that make sense? On a subconscious level, she knows what she's doing is wrong, but her other side is stronger and is winning out. I would suspect a horrendous crash eventually when she is not able to keep up this mindset.

If any of this is true, then I think it would probably be the culmination of a lifetime of poor coping mechanisms which finally have stopped working for her. That makes it sound like you were part of her mistakes, or poor coping mechanisms, but that's not what I'm saying.

As an example is my own situation. I'm normal, relatively successful, can get along with just about anyone, never done anything which ever got me in trouble (except the EA of course...). Yet, I see that I had internal struggles for much of my life. I was good at keeping them boxed up and found ways to deal with them on the outside which were acceptable and didn't give any indication to those around me that anything was wrong. When it all came crashing down, during and after the EA, I was nuts and I knew it. But it had to be someone else's fault, because I had been completely normal up until then. I finally got to a point were I could admit that it really was all me, things changed for the better. The anger went away. The defensiveness stopped. There was just a ball of wrecked "me" laying on the floor.

I think WS's exist on a spectrum when it comes to dealing with these things. Somewhere on that spectrum is a point at which a person can't move any further. It sounds like your WW is on that other end and won't be able to reach that point. When/if she does, it will be too late for your M.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, November 30th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My question is about why she is the angry, nasty and disgusting person who hates me and is using the kids as a weapon?

Simple. She's protecting her psyche by putting the blame upon you. Painting you as the horrid husband shields her from accepting how deeply damaged and wrong she is. To justify our As, WW especially (IMO) project our unhappiness onto our H, convince ourselves that he's cold, distant, uncaring. Clearly it's *his* fault that I'm miserable! The AP, of course, stokes that anti-H sentiment to his advantage.

something still doesn't seem right

It never will. Because it's not.


^^Everything I write, IMHO & YMMV.^^
fWW: 42, amazing H and two elementary-age kids.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing & rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about.

Posts: 774 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, December 1st (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do you do to help them cheer up?

I don't do anything. His feelings and emotions are his to work through. As mine are for me.

We do talk a lot. But he decides how he feels. Has nothing to do with me.

Now, if he did not want me around and asked me to not be part of his holiday, I would do so. Take the kids, do something without him. Give him his time. But to cheer him up? I don't think I've ever done that.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
No12turn2
♂ Member
Member # 40996
Default  Posted: 3:12 AM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How often does a WW "shave"? And do they do their nails afterwards? I think my WW is getting ready for some cyber


Me/BS 35
WW 32
M 12 yrs 2 Girls 10 & 7
Phone/Cyber Affairs (3 D-Days)
Status: D train.

Knowing the details doesn't always make you feel satisfied. In my case, it just made me want to burn a perfectly good couch!


Posts: 341 | Registered: Oct 2013 | From: United Staes
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 3:18 AM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How often does a WW "shave"? And do they do their nails afterwards?

Hm. It only matters if she is not doing her usual routine. What we do has no bearing on your WW.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, December 2nd (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Re: shaving... I doubt we all have a common timeframe or frequency. As US said, it depends on what's normal for your wife. Same with manicures...what the rest of us do is not a barometer to go by.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
momof1girl
♀ Member
Member # 41074
Default  Posted: 9:43 AM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Something is truly bothering me and I guess I want to get the take of a WS.

My husband seems to be punishing himself (saying he will never forgive himself for hurting me, he will hate himself for the rest of his life for what heís done, saying he messed up something that was good and that he doesnít deserve me or our daughter) and staying with the OW. It could be wishful thinking on my part, thinking that maybe he doesn't want to really be with her, but he feels like he made his bed and now he has to lie in it.

Anyway, I was wondering if there were any WSís that stayed with their APís because they felt that they were beyond redemption?


D-Day: Oct. 1, 2013

Together 15 years, married 7, 1 child, age 7.

WH: 37 y.o., EA/PA since March
OW: 25, 1 child (not WH's)
Me: 34, BS
Separated Nov. 16, 2013
Filing for divorce: Jan. 27, 2014


Posts: 66 | Registered: Oct 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 1:23 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

momof1girl,

Per the SI rules, a WS who stayed with their AP wouldn't be able to post here. I think there have been others, probably BS's, who were WS who stayed with their AP's and have since become betrayed, but I can't think of who off the top of my head...

Anyway, to your situation, I think its fairly common for a WS to say those thing - "saying he will never forgive himself for hurting me, he will hate himself for the rest of his life for what heís done, saying he messed up something that was good and that he doesnít deserve me or our daughter"

While it may be true to some extent, it can easily be seen as a way to take pressure of the WS. Is some situations, if the WS is punishing themselves harder than their BS, then the BS may back-off a bit and maybe even feel sorry for the WS. I kind of had that mindset during my EA. I figured I didn't have a reason to D my BW, so when I found myself in an A, I figured I was such an ass and had hurt my BW so much that she would finally let me go. It wouldn't have really been my fault at that time...it would have been that my BW couldn't forgive me. Does that make sense? I felt like I was trying to give my BW a reason to D me so that I wouldn't have to make that decision.

For what it's worth, my FIL is one of those guys who walked out on his family for the OW. He's been M to her for a very long time now. He seems to be happy, but he has also told me (indirectly) that he felt he made a decision and he is standing by it. It isn't a decision that he thinks is right per se, but he made it and he knows he can't go back.

I would suggest you detach and give him crickets whenever he starts talking like that.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
AndreaL
♀ Member
Member # 41522
Default  Posted: 7:12 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My husband just confessed his affair to me telling me he thought he loved the other woman, but loves me so much. Is that even possible? He loves both of us?Please explain if you have insight. I would really appreciate it.


Me:35
Hubby:38
Kids ages: 2 and 5
Married: 8 years
DDAY: Dec 1 2013
Affair: 2 months EA and PA
Status: Separted. Sigh...I wish I could forgive 😞

Posts: 154 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Canada
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:58 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he thought he loved the other woman

This is not surprising. Many of us have "thought" that we t have loved the AP. I personally believe that it was a real emotion at that time, but it isn't a truthful emotion. If your WH were to start doing the work a WS should do to figure out their shit, he may discover that it wasn't love, but rather limerance, or infatuation. It is almost like a high from some drug.

Then there is compartmentalization which allows a WS to keep the A in one box and keep the M in another. I do believe some WS's did love their BS's. They obviously lost sight of that love for some time during the A. But if can be found again.

It is probably going to be quite the roller coaster for your WH while he figures this stuff out. It's your choice to stick around while he works through it, if you think he is capable of doing it at all.

Good luck. And watch his actions during this time. That will be a better indicator of his potential than his words.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6047 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 9:28 PM, December 3rd (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

AndreaL,

Love as a feeling? Yes, I believe a person could feel strongly enough for two people to call it "love." Parents love more than one child, children love more than one parent, and yes, I do believe people can love more than one person in a relationship sense---again, as a feeling.

Love as an action? Not so much. That requires treating the object of that love with a level of dignity, respect, care, and kindness that does not exist in affairs.

In my case, I thought I loved both. In reality, I loved neither.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
allatsea
♂ Member
Member # 38923
Default  Posted: 6:58 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

20wrongs, Baxters and Lefttoolate,

Thank you for your replies. It's good to get some insight. Clearly my CSTBXWW is totally beyond reasoning whereas you guys were able to see what a mess you made and correct it.

I think you are right that she believes her own cognitions and honestly thinks she is doing the right thing. She continues to believe that her POS can/ has replace me as a husband and father.

Everyone asks me why her own parents and her solicitor aren't addressing her decisions and trying to steer her in the right direction. Her lying extends to court forms and her position on everything is so out of whack. Rational people such as myself, friends, colleagues can't comprehend the illogical thoughts she is having.

I still hope that she comes crashing down but I already know that I won't be there to catch her.



Me 40
WW 38
Together 19 years
Married for 9
DS(1) 9
DS(2) 7
Dday 10th Feb 2013
She moved in with POS and took kids 23rd Mar 2013. WW now pregnant
Divorced April 2014

Posts: 524 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: UK
AndreaL
♀ Member
Member # 41522
Default  Posted: 10:46 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BaxtersBFF and heartbroken090, Thank you for your replies. I know the words I love you, are just words. But still, that seems like an even worse betrayal than the physical aspect.


Me:35
Hubby:38
Kids ages: 2 and 5
Married: 8 years
DDAY: Dec 1 2013
Affair: 2 months EA and PA
Status: Separted. Sigh...I wish I could forgive 😞

Posts: 154 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Canada
heartbroken0903
♀ Member
Member # 27879
Default  Posted: 11:38 AM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is a very valid and real betrayal just to say those words, even if in an affair they are built on bullshit. I'm very sorry that he (that any of us) caused you and all of our BSs that extra layer of hurt.


Me: WS, 30s
XH: BS, 40s
No kids

Married 2.5 years
D-day 3/6/10
Divorced 5/14/10

Reconciling after divorce


Posts: 1916 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: the cat's meow
AndreaL
♀ Member
Member # 41522
Default  Posted: 12:07 PM, December 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks heartbroken0903. I am taking it one day at a time and trying to figure out what to do. The physical aspect I may be able to get past, but the emotional aspect is a different story altogether.


Me:35
Hubby:38
Kids ages: 2 and 5
Married: 8 years
DDAY: Dec 1 2013
Affair: 2 months EA and PA
Status: Separted. Sigh...I wish I could forgive 😞

Posts: 154 | Registered: Dec 2013 | From: Canada
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