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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:08 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Undone1 -

how could my FWH do this: have intense intimacy with me one minute and the next with the OW?

It's called compartmentalization, which is a very useful survival skill... but taken in the wrong direction by cheaters. Has he been abused in any way as a child?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cpacan -

Is it possible to refrain from cheating behaviour by willpower alone?

Yes, of course it's possible. But do you want to be married to a white-knuckler?

Using dieting as an analogy... When it actually works is when eating healthily is a way of life, not just because someone threw away all your junk food and made you live under martial law.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 5:24 PM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm not quite ready for that amount of trust yet, so is it possible to learn the lesson without knowing the deeper reasons for your actions?

I don't believe so. Sorry. I like UnexpectedSong's analogy.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
Brokenheart777
♂ Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 12:35 PM, June 15th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This has been puzzling me for a while and I don't think there is a real answer but would like to see if any waywards could give their insight.

I've been NC with WGF for over a month now. As it stands, she's devastated with her actions, worries about me but does not contact me because she doesn't want to hurt me more or effect my healing. Last we spoke, she claims that she still feels she didn't want to be in a relationship anymore but said "of course I'd like to try again if it was right".

(short background, together for 6 years, she silently struggled with self esteem issues, although she is gorgeous. Eventually she began a EA/PA and went full steam ahead in ending the relationship. I found out 2-3 months after the A began because she tried to end it and OM contacted me and 2 other friends to say she had been cheating on me.)

So WGF seems to have fallen in to the mindset that we weren't "right" for each other. Every single story I read shows this pattern of thinking from a wayward. If I were to rate our relationship on a scale of 1 - 10, I'd easily say it was a 7 and that is with both side not giving a true solid effort to make it better.

So what I'd like to know from any waywards, did you have this thought process in the earlier days? Is this normal? How long did it last? They say to trust your gut, and my gut tells me that there is simply no chance that this relationship is one that should be given up on although I am full aware that is irrelevant if WGF doesn't tell me that she feels the same way. Given NC, I don't really know what she's feeling lately.


ME - BBF 31
HER - WXGF 28
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back up"


Posts: 176 | Registered: Feb 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:06 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

brokenheart777,

I think your WGF is following standard operating procedure with the "our relationship wasn't right" think. It's much easier to tell yourself that and have the BS take some responsibility than taking full responsibility for her own actions.

You and she were in the same six-year relationship right? So why didn't you cheat? If it was that bad, then why didn't she break up with you before she chose to cheat?

If there were issues in your relationship, then fine, welcome to normal life. Maybe you can start working on those, but it should probably be after she realizes that she was the only one who made the choice to cheat.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Brokenheart777
♂ Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 6:35 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the reply bBFF.

The whole "standard operating procedure" thing has been annoying me. I try to keep my head out of the future and the outcome, but everything seems to be right on track with so many other A stories. It's like I'm slowly reading about another tale as it happens but this is the part where anything could happen.
I have been giving my all in working on myself and trying to be happy alone. But of course I still hope that she'll actually do the work on herself and realize exactly how this all played out.


ME - BBF 31
HER - WXGF 28
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back up"


Posts: 176 | Registered: Feb 2013
Brokenheart777
♂ Member
Member # 38561
Default  Posted: 6:38 PM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Another thing I was curious about, did you (WS) end up cutting out people that were close to you but also mutual friends with you BS in the post A fallout for a length of time? WGF hasn't been in contact with the friends that she was closest to for the past couple of years since the A was uncovered. Her friends are the wives of my friends. I'm told this is pretty standard stuff fueled by guilt and shame.

[This message edited by Brokenheart777 at 6:39 PM, June 16th (Sunday)]


ME - BBF 31
HER - WXGF 28
DDay - 2/22/2013
2-3 month EA/PA
Together for 6 years, ready to start my life . . .

"I can fill the flask up, but can't get past us
I'm in the storm, staying strong, but can't get back up"


Posts: 176 | Registered: Feb 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:59 PM, June 19th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BrokenHeart,

Cutting people out probably happens for some and not for others. I actually got back in contact with a couple of old friends and they helped set me right. Never really had a core group of friends that I associated with daily or even weekly or monthly. BW had some friends who she leaned on, but I was sort of on my own.

Is there a chance that she might be feeling like a failure since you guys aren't married and her friends all are?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 11:29 AM, June 22nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The husband is struggling. I cheated on him about 6 years ago. We didn't really work through it we just kind of glossed over it to move on. I was a selfish piece of poo. i know this and i"ve worked hard to change. The husband had a month long PA with his co worker in November (kissing and sex 3 times). He was severly depressed then and was self medicating with alcohol and a pretty young girl who paid attention to him while her bf was away.
He has been on meds since March and has thought about ending his life a few times. Several times before DDay and once about a week ago.
I am struggling because I didn't see this coming. I had been noticing his signs of depression but it never clicked that he would cheat after 6 years of telling me that i was crap for cheating and he would never stoop so low.
So here we are today. His depression doesn't seem to be getting better with the medication. He's on about 4 different things now. He is at an extreme low. We've been able to talk about the A and I feel like the conversations are good for us to move forward but painful of course.
He's trying to get a new job so he doesn't have to work for the same company as her anymore. He's trying to do better for our family. But he's stuck on how he hurt us and he doesn't seem to think he can bring anything positive to our family.

I know he messed up and I go from being happy with him to being triggered by something and turning into a witch.
I love him. I know he loves me. I know he knows he fucked up big time. He has said all of the right things (thank you SI for teaching me what I need to know!) and he is trying to do go when he is in an upswing.

So my question is- what should I do to help him move out of the self loathing? I know that not talking about the A would help but I don't think that's fair to me. When I want to talk about it so that I can feel some clarity I want to talk about it. My husband is the type to give up before things get to hard. R is hard. D is the easier choice.
I love him so much and i know he is so broken and so does he. i want him to move forward but idont know what to do.

advice?


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, June 22nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cuppacoffee,

You would probably be better off engaging other MHs in the Madhatter thread here in ICR.

I know that not talking about the A would help
Not true. Not talking about it will cause more harm.

but I don't think that's fair to me.
What was fair to him 6 years ago? Did you guys not talk about it because you didn't want to or because he didn't like conflict? Or...what?

R is hard. D is the easier choice.
R is really fucking hard. So is D. Ask anyone in the D/S forum if D was easy for them.

Are either of you guys in IC or are you trying MC?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 2:21 PM, June 22nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He is in IC. He has been since March. The medication helped him to tell me what had happened. He has had 2 post d day appointments in which he told the IC as well.
6 years ago we went to MC and on our first session she told us to divorce. We didn't want to do that so we didn't go back. We just tried to pick up and move on but we never really dealt with it.
We didn't talk about it at all because he didn't want to. The only time it came up was in fights but not to discuss the whys of it.
Right now he doesn't want to talk about any of it. It wasn't fair to him to not talk about it back. maybe if we had we wouldn't be where we are right now. But I want to talk about it so we can fix things and move on.

We've probably done more talking and really working on being married since d day than we had previously.
I bring up the a because I want to talk about it so I can figure out how to help us move forward. I want to find out what he felt I wasn't giving to him. I want to be the partner he needs. He is not interested in talking but just moving forward. I am the one who brings it up and it creates problems. I am the one who starts the conversations that turn into arguements. I feel like if I just kept to myself he wouldn't be so depressed.

Does that make sense?

I am sure d is hard as well. I don't doubt it for one bit. I am sorry if I made it seem like I felt that way.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, June 22nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@Coffee
Hon, M & R both require work from both partners. Its a 2-way street. Obviously rug-sweeping the issues didnt work the first time prior to the A. Why in the hell would it work now?

Your WS needs to get off his ass, put on his fucking big boy pants and work! You must go through this! It surrounds you on all sides so how does going "past" it, over it, under it or around it get it out of the way? It doesn't. Think of it like thick viscous muck. Its everywhere and if you go any way but THROUGH the center of it it'll just drag you down till your dead from asphyxiation.

You need to focus on you. You can't save him only he can save himself and then once he's working and I mean WORKING on his shit then that's when you both work on R together. If he can't comprehend that then ask him this: "When a plane goes down and the oxygen mask falls, who's mask do you put on first? Why?"

[This message edited by stilllovinghim at 2:41 PM, June 22nd (Saturday)]


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
PouringRain
♂ New Member
Member # 39177
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, June 22nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My d-day was 2 months ago and I am just now mentally stable enough to post here - I've been a total mess. For years prior to the As we were working hard on our relationship (I thought) and even our MC was shocked to find out about the affairs!!

My question is about NC. My WW went off the rails having 5 different types of affairs over the course of 10 months (July 2012 thru April 2013). In addition to these 5, she had 2 PAs long ago, early in our relationship one of these was an ex-boyfriend. Evidently she messed around with same xBF again in 2010.

Now, I have put her through the wringer since Dday, no doubt - I am enraged and beside myself with hurt, and I admit I've taken this out on her (called her every name in the book and other character attacks, took and read all her journals and private writings and threatened to throw them away, relentlessly pushed her to see what a piece of shit she is and how much she's hurt me). I've threatened immediate divorce but know it is wise to wait, even if only to let things cool off so the D will be less toxic.

I've moved out and we are in a 6-month structured separation: no lawyers, no dating, IC/MC, gradual reconnection but little communication outside of kid stuff at beginning. At the end of 6 months we'll decide if we want to try to reconcile.

All that to say, she says she wants to reconcile, but she won't send NC emails to these people. She says, not without some reason, that I seem bent on D and she doesn't want to close the door on these people who might be all she has left. I see this as evidence of her being a dry cheater our whole relationship, keeping the doors open just in case of need.

I see a lot of evidence in this (and other less-than-remorseful behavior) that she isn't going to change, that it is over.

Did anyone else struggle with NCs? Am I responsible in any way for making her feel safe in the relationship? I feel like I'm done with that I've been excusing her sorry ass (oh, she's just insecure oh, that was just a little lie, I know she just feels bad and is making excuses for herself oh, I know she blames me but someday she'll see how good our relationship really is, if I keep showing her how much I love her...) for way way too long.

I am a shumck.


M 15 yrs
2 girls, 10 & 12
Dday April 28, 2013
July 2012 to April 28, 2013: 1 Major EA/PA,1 minor PA/EA, 2 ONSs, 1 on-going sexting w/ ex boyfriend

Posts: 10 | Registered: May 2013
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, June 22nd (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@PR-
I think you've wised up to your WW's bull. She's keeping you / OM as a backup for her backup. Be aware, seperation is also a chance for her to sneak around without you knowing, its easier to play "single"kwim? IMHO, get a lawyer. Go to an IC and get yourself tested for EVERY STD under the sun and get retested in 6 mos as some STD's like to stay dormant. Also, if you haven't already, check out the Betrayed Men's forum in ICR.

Best of luck to you. If your W is serious about making it work she'll drop the pity-party and fix her shit- regardless of the outcome. The NC letters are one of the first steps and if she can't comply, well, it's up to you how much you're willing to allow.

I've gotten rid of clothes, we moved all the way across the country, hell I just now started wearing my hair a certain way that I wore in one of the pics I sent to AP....people have sold their homes, replaced furniture, vehicles, etc to help eradicate the memories and although none of those things are enough to fix the damage, its still a fucking effort.


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
PouringRain
♂ New Member
Member # 39177
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, June 23rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for reply. Here's another question: WW seems only interested in talking to "friends" who support her delusion (she needed to go outside the relationship to get her needs met she isn't a sex/love addict just a lost soul what she did wasn't that bad, etc etc). She is blowing off mutual friends who challenge her now that the truth is out. I've moved out and am trying to 180 but still obsessing about how to wake her up out of her fog (obviously). What gets a WW to wake up?


M 15 yrs
2 girls, 10 & 12
Dday April 28, 2013
July 2012 to April 28, 2013: 1 Major EA/PA,1 minor PA/EA, 2 ONSs, 1 on-going sexting w/ ex boyfriend

Posts: 10 | Registered: May 2013
stilllovinghim
♀ Member
Member # 29971
Default  Posted: 1:43 PM, June 23rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PR-
Christ if she ain't got her head jammed way up there, huh? Sounds like the friends of the M are suddenly enemies and enemies of the M are friends.

She doesn't want to hear what they're telling her because it's the truth and there's sage wisdom around here that if something someone says makes you mad, then you should figure out why.

You could print out "What Every WS Needs To Know" I'll find it and bump it for you in the Wayward forum. There's also stuff in the Healing Library, she could join here, read "Not Just Friends" but honestly nine of that will help until she's ready for help.

The whole "free spirit" arguement is a giant load of shit. You won't be able to get her out of the fog. Only she can do it and she has to want to do it.

IMHO, focus on yourself or you'll go crazy trying to fix her. She needs to hit rock bottom and she's not there yet. Continue your healing. Continue your 180, continue making sure your finances, belongings, etc are in place and talk to a lawyer. I'm not saying go ahead and file for D, that's your own personal decision, just make yourself safe. Head over to the Betrayed Men's forum. The guys there, my H included, will be more than happy to talk to you.


“You have a choice. Live or die.Every breath is a choice. Every minute is a choice. Every time you don't throw yourself down the stairs, that's a choice. Every time you don't crash your car, you re-enlist.”
― Chuck Palahniuk, Survivor

Posts: 1933 | Registered: Oct 2010
PouringRain
♂ New Member
Member # 39177
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, June 23rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for the reply and the WS read that is spot-on. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you folks on SI sanity-saving if not life-saving! Thank you thank you thank you


M 15 yrs
2 girls, 10 & 12
Dday April 28, 2013
July 2012 to April 28, 2013: 1 Major EA/PA,1 minor PA/EA, 2 ONSs, 1 on-going sexting w/ ex boyfriend

Posts: 10 | Registered: May 2013
20WrongsVs1
♀ Member
Member # 39000
Default  Posted: 3:52 PM, June 23rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

PR, I'll echo SLH and say: only a WW can choose to shake off the fog and wake herself up. In my first IC session, I told my C how frustrating it was that the A was so alluring, that it was like a drug. She replied, "It's not like a drug, it is a drug," that there are actual brain chemicals in play.

Yes, I struggled, going NC was hard, I broke it once and TT'd for a month. Are the OMs married? BH insisted on outing my AP, and I fought it, I even warned OM. (Yes I resemble all the names you called your WW.) But informing the OBS was the best offensive move BH could've made, and it worked.

Ultimately the thought of my children growing up with divorced parents helped me wake up. Even in the early days when I was still (100% wrongly!) blaming our M for my As--BH is a wonderful dad, and I couldn't bear the thought of depriving him (and them) of us all living together.


^^Everything I write, IMHO & YMMV.^^
fWW: 42, amazing H and two elementary-age kids.
Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing & rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass, the world is too full to talk about.

Posts: 778 | Registered: Apr 2013 | From: Redneck land
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 5:15 PM, June 23rd (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Am I responsible in any way for making her feel safe in the relationship?

In any way? Of course. You're actually responsible to yourself for being safe to be around.

Anger is one thing. Having someone fear their actual safety because of actions from you is another altogether.

An affair is a form of domestic violence in itself.

Your wife doesn't sound like she has the tools or the desire to find them to truly grow and seek a healthy life path. That's why she isn't cutting off her friends. The "they'll be all I have" is quite telling. If what you have is toxic hanging on to it is allowing their poison to make you sick.

Any people in her life that support her choices are toxic. Even if the two of you don't work out. Friends encourage growth and health not promote destruction and denigration.

If you truly believe she's a piece of shit the two of you shouldn't be together. While her behavior is horrific, a partner viewing another partner that way is not healthy for either person.

It's understandable. However, you don't expect someone to pull themselves up while you're standing over them with a mallet playing whack a mole.

Since you're seperated focus on healing yourself and recovering from the blow and trauma you've experienced. Work on detaching. If she works on herself you can observe from a distance and determine if she's put in what's needed to be worth the risk.

Hopefully she'll get healthy regardless. That's the only true hope in any case. Someone willing to do the work no matter what the outcome is.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
Wonderingwhy11
♀ Member
Member # 34782
Default  Posted: 3:54 PM, June 24th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Question to WS about compartmentalizing. Do you still compartmentalize?

I did not realize WH was compartmentalizing prior to DDay. He still does this but not quite as bad as during the A. He will come home and sit in front of the lap top and read the internet news and ignore me. Most mornings he will leave without saying a word unless I say goodbye first. He says he is busy thinking about work in the morning and trying to wind down in the evenings. This has become a trigger for me. I have tried to explain why his behavior bothers me and he says he will try to be aware of it. But he still does it.

For those who compartmentalized during their A, where you able to stop this? If you have, what did you do?


Me BW - 46
Him WH - 53
Together 23 yrs, Married 18
DDay August 2011
2 kids - 13 and 15

Gotta love the life that we livin'


Posts: 376 | Registered: Feb 2012
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