What makes you think you deserve to stay?
From where I sit, my husband could have caused less devastation to my life if he had just killed me. Two PAs, two EAs, porn addiction, compulsive lying, TT and a second d day where I felt like I'd been water boarded.
And yet, he can sit in front of me and tell me how desperately he wants his life back and how hard he is working to get there.
Honestly, if he had any scrap of decency, he would leave. File the papers and let me move on with my life. It is so impossibly unfair as the BS who is going along in life, perfectly happy and in love, to then be handed a flaming pile of shit. Of course WE want to work things out. We didn't know things were so bad that our WS's were getting into new relationships. How can we be expected to have to be the one to end things??
I think we can all agree that you should leave one relationship before starting another. Which clearly doesn't happen in the infidelity world. So why not have the decency to leave after causing the destruction? Why consider yourselves worthy of being with the person you've destroyed?
Please note I'm not trying to be inflammatory, just factual. I'm not even angry. I'm just curious to the mindset more than anything. If I was holding a priceless treasure, dropped it and broke it, I'd never ask to hold it again after it was put back together. That's sort of how I view infidelity.
EDITED Portion.. After re-reading I see mama's question is directed to the WW's as well..
[This message edited by JustmeVA at 1:28 PM, January 23rd (Wednesday)]
I am having a hard time with this. WH claims there was absolutely nothing going on during that time, it was the best years of our marriage, etc. if everything is great, why do it? I am not justifying affairs by saying that marriage problems make WS have affairs. I just can't wrap my head around why if everything was so wonderful, why choose to do such a destructive behavior? Why risk a good marriage?
I guess this goes along with the how and the why did my WH have his A. He is working on those questions in counseling but I think they will be a long time coming. I need some insight. I know every person is different but I desperately need viable answers. I am drowning in these thoughts.
[This message edited by Blameitontherain at 1:50 PM, January 23rd (Wednesday)]
What keeps you around? What will keep you from doing it all over again??
I had realized that I was setting my life on fire, the life I really wanted to keep and would do anything to save. The love I have for my BH and our relationship that made us fall in love is what "kept me around" and hoping we could work to get it back again.
What keeps me from doing it all over again?
To say that I don't want to hurt my BH or myself again would be a shallow answer. It goes far deeper than that. I think the soul searching and self discovery that I've been doing the past 6 months has really taught me a lot about life, stuff I should have been smarter to know in the first place. I could never be "that" person again who has an affair. That person was sneaky, dishonest, deceitful and cruel. I'm actually a loving, honest and loyal person so if I'm all that, you cannot have an affair and be that person too. I WANT to be the best me possible and I had to hit rock bottom to realize that I want my life back and didn't want to be the person I hated. It was a scary dark place last year, somewhere I will never go again. That's how I know within that I will never cheat again EVER!!!
What makes you think you deserve to stay?
To be honest, your question made me shudder.
I left that choice up to my BH on d-day when I confessed to him. I was prepared for anything and knew I was facing the consequences. He immediately knew it wasn't a deal breaker and how badly he wanted me as his wife. Now every day I show him that I deserve to stay and he made the right decision to keep me. He told me that if I ever cheated again, he would divorce me so fast my head would spin. So being the woman he married again, makes me worthy to stay.
The WW formerly known as messedupchick
What makes you think you deserve to stay?
I don't, like MUC I let my BBF make that decision when he asked me to leave I did when he asked me to come back I did, all the while I was working on me, IC, getting my life together, figuring out my whys. If he tells me to leave again I will, it will hurt like crazy but it is a consequence of what I did, he can choose to gift me with R or not but I will not leave not because I deserve to be here but because I am working to be the woman who does deserve him and us and I will stay as long as he'll have me. Leaving is not an option, I will not take away his right to decide where he wants to go from here by leaving.
Why did you come back? What keeps you around? What will keep you from doing it all over again??
I realized the stupidity I had committed in my choice and what I had jeopardized. I never didn't want to be with BBF as fucked up as that sounds.
He does, the capacity he has in him to still love me, hold me, touch me, forgive me even when he dislikes perhaps even hates me. His love and the want for him to see me as his "one" again. My love for him is deep and I don't want let him go.
I am in IC, figured out my whys, am changing my behaviors and horrible coping skills. Becoming a healthier person and learning to love myself and have a better sense of self-worth that isn't reliant on other people' opinions.
[This message edited by Unagie at 4:51 PM, January 25th (Friday)]
No longer together
Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.
Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.
Why does wh has really hate main ow? I said she was trouble for years! And now after six months of doing god knows what. I catch him and he hates her!
It's misplaced anger. A way to distract himself from what he actually needs to focus on helping you heal and healing himself. It's easier to focus on hating the OP then to focus on the fucked up things we've done or said. Easier to villianize the other person in our minds then own up to what we did. Tell him to stop focusing on hating her, she deserves none of his emotion not even hate and start focusing on fixing himself and not running away anymore.
I'm starting to really see my exWH for what he is in terms of a man who was raised to have zero coping skills. His mother had a lot of issues and always turned a blind eye. She put on a smile and insisted everything was fine while shit just crumbled around her. She had no ability to fight for what she wanted or what was right. She simply followed exWHs father and did whatever he said, despite the fact that he apparently cheated on her for a good part of the M. I'm not cut from that cloth. I was taught that if you're gonna go down, you better go down swinging. It seems like exWH was taught to just smile and cover and ignore the bad even when it slaps you in the face.
In all of your own personal experiences and your experiences in IC, do you find this significant and a major reason why he ran to what's easy?
I interrupted A in May when I discovered it. In June WS and AP were back into the A again. On Oct 30 (after I said I was filing for a divorce), WS came to me and told me about the second part of the A and that he was F'd up and wanted out of the A and to be with me and kids, etc. Beginning mid Nov, I watched him start withdrawals and it continued until mid-Dec. Then in early Jan, he tells me that since mid-Dec he has been fantasizing about AP and wondering what it would be like to be with her today, without the guilt. He thinks that during the second half of the A, the problems he was having (could not have sex with her the last time he saw her) were all based upon guilt and not her, that maybe now w/o guilt he could have the same great and exciting relationship with AP as during the first half of the affair, pre-discovery.
Is this a normal part of the process for a WS to doubt a decision to end the affair? The attitude of WS is that the Oct 30 event was similar to the May interruption because I ended the A in Oct by saying that I was going to divorce WS. Is he out of the fog and just not willing to accept reality and trying to get back into the fog or is he playing head games with me? Thank you for any insight.
[This message edited by tooloyal at 3:17 PM, January 28th (Monday)]
918mama and justmeVA
I came back because I want to be with my XH. Nothing more, nothing less. It's what keeps me around. I don't think I "deserve" to be with him. My feelings toward phrases such as "deserve" and the like have changed over the past few years. I don't think any of us (regardless of status or label) "deserve" or "don't deserve" anything. Relationships are free will and reactionary to a person's actions. That goes to both sides of the fence.
The marriage was reasonably good. I was just not very committed. I was married legally on paper; I was not committed in my heart.
How large of a role do you feel that FOO issues play in the A as well as in how a wayward handles the fall out??
I believe that for me FOO issues played a very large role. Ever since childhood, due to the nature of my parents (they were not bad parents, btw), it's as if I have been on a sort of quest for approval from others. I was never taught to self-validate. It is as though I needed an inexhaustible supply of others to do it for me...parents, relationship partners, friends, coworkers, bosses, etc. The problem (one of many stemming from my FOO) is not limited to infidelity.
Can any WS/OW please give examples of the excessive flattery/ego boosting/compliments/feeling sorry for etc said to each other during their affair.
Some examples would be referring to each other as the best looking partner we'd each ever had, the best lover, the most funny/sexy/fun to be around/name-your-compliment, etc.
Married 2.5 years
Reconciling after divorce
[This message edited by tooloyal at 4:15 PM, January 28th (Monday)]
How can we be expected to have to be the one to end things??
Because it may be exactly what you need to do to be healthy and safe. I'm not really understanding your post.
I'm the wayward and I view things very much like you do. I wouldn't treat someone I valued that way. I didn't value my ex. Still don't. I didn't value myself either as evident by my choices.
If you feel that your relationship has been damaged beyond any repair, which is quite understandable, then why would you stay? I get that being put in the position to make a hard choice with tremendous ramifications isn't fair. Lots of things aren't fair.
Marrying someone after you've been all over them like a bad rash when you date them then pull sex off the table isn't fair. Vowing to love someone yet treating them like something you find on the bottom of your sure isn't fair. That doesn't change the fact that parent has a choice on how to respond and cheating is a horrible way to deal.
So is staying with someone who has disrespected you to the point you don't feel it can ever be worked through.
We don't have choices of how others treat us. We do have 100% choice on how we respond to it. Forget fair. What's workable for you right now?
I'm sorry you're hurting and having to deal with this.
'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth
Part of it was because I believed it. Part of it was because it was "new again" between us and so there was a lot of that rekindled passion and excitement. That feeling was definitely part of the "draw" for me, FWIW. Part of it was used as justification for the affair: I feel so wonderful (limerance), it must be right.
I think that of course both partners in an affair are to blame, and both are certainly capable of "playing" the other. My AP wasn't married, but I can assume that an OP can play a MM/MW the same way a MM/MW can play them, or (to be honest) how two free & single people can play each other if they love drama or are a crackpot.