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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
Grownup2010
♀ New Member
Member # 31955
Default  Posted: 8:37 AM, January 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you BaxtersBFF,

It's more complicated than that. WH already stopped wanting to have sex with me before he met OW.

He claimed that his emotional-abusive puritan-like mother and his religious up-bringing (Christians from a small town at W. Virginia), plus he feels like I am his family/sister (so having sex with me feels like incest!), all these make him not want to have sex with me.

He and his IC also come up with this theory that because I was his first committed love/wife and sex partner, he dumped all his hang-ups/baggage about sex onto me and then he was free to explore with someone else. WTF???

His IC refused (jokingly say "I may not want to see her", but this is not something to joke about) to meet with me when I suggested to meet him so that he knows about WH's wife and another perspective. I feel that the IC cares only about bonding with WH so that he'll continue to pay, but the IC cares nothing about R or the marriage. I can't talk him out of this IC, Wh trusts the IC too much.

Sigh.


Me: 41
WH: 35
Married: 2007 (together since 2003)
DD and separated since 2010
R on and off
~Still believe WH will grow up and be a responsible person one day.
~Still believe what brought us together into the marriage is still there.

Posts: 20 | Registered: Apr 2011
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, January 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay then...I started changing in some fairly significant ways long before OW came along in my situation. That's okay. It's a good thing then that you can say that your WH's changes started before OW came along. So, the big question is, did he talk to you about it? Did he communicate any of this to you before the A?

On IC, your WH should be making a decision about what he wants. Does he want the M? If so, then he needs to find an IC who will support him in that. It is that simple.

Your WH seems to be at that point where he is throwing out hooks trying to find something to pin his problems on. I remember doing that too. Said a lot of things to my BW and others that I now regret saying. Everything came back to me. If your WH has issues with his mom, fine, that can be dealt with, but is that an excuse for him to have sex with OW?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Grownup2010
♀ New Member
Member # 31955
Default  Posted: 11:23 AM, January 7th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, the big question is, did he talk to you about it? Did he communicate any of this to you before the A?

No, he said nothing and hide his "sex-phobia with wife" with me. He refused to talk about it even when I sense there was something wrong and suggested we talk and go for a couple therapist. I tried to spice up our sex life but without any clue what was wrong I was just banging my head on walls.

On IC, your WH should be making a decision about what he wants. Does he want the M?

He fluctuates about whether he wants the M or not every few months. He claimed that his biggest concern is the sex blockage he had towards me, which makes him hesitate to committed to R with me. Yet when he was with the OW and had great sex for a few months but nothing else in that relationship work, he started missing me again. He went back and forth twice now. I am in a crossroad as it's hard to handle his push and pull.

Your WH seems to be at that point where he is throwing out hooks trying to find something to pin his problems on.

Yes, that's exactly what he and his IC are doing. But the kinds of theories they come up with are not making sense! That he transfers the baggage to his wife so he can have sex with others, that he is emotionally disconnected so he had an affair, that he has a hero-complex and want to save his wife but ended up hated that and he went the other way to "save" other women! ... seriously none of these make any sense to me!

but is that an excuse for him to have sex with OW?

His excuse is because he doesn't have sexual desire towards me (he claimed he never had!) that's why he look for sex elsewhere. I know, self-justification talk.


Me: 41
WH: 35
Married: 2007 (together since 2003)
DD and separated since 2010
R on and off
~Still believe WH will grow up and be a responsible person one day.
~Still believe what brought us together into the marriage is still there.

Posts: 20 | Registered: Apr 2011
UnexpectedSong
♀ Member
Member # 21761
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He and his IC also come up with this theory that because I was his first committed love/wife and sex partner, he dumped all his hang-ups/baggage about sex onto me and then he was free to explore with someone else.

Why don't you think there is something to this?

Have you done any research on the effects of a strict religious upbringing coupled with an emotionally abusive childhood?

What was it about him that you found attractive when you first dated? What did he find attractive about you?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
Peanut5
♀ Member
Member # 36051
Default  Posted: 4:56 PM, January 8th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My H had affair for two years with 19 year old. He is 20 years older. We are in recovery. Is youth really a draw? Is it all ego? Has anyone ever been the OW at a young age? And my H days she never orgasmed either He says it was less than 50 times in that span( whatever) partially due to that. And he feared her exposing it all, hence his not ending it. It was an agreement to be just sexual but she became emotionally attached to him. (Duh)

Posts: 102 | Registered: Jul 2012
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 7:53 AM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Peanut,

Youth will draw some, and not others. Personally, I find it rather creepy that he was willing to have sex with a teenager. Do you know if it started after OW turned 18? Because that is just a whole different deal then...is that why he feared exposure?

Regardless of age, the ego-stroking seems to be a very common theme in A's. The question he needs to answer is why he would have needed that ego stroking, and why a teenager would have "satisfied" that ego stroking need.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Confusedmnman
♂ New Member
Member # 37913
Default  Posted: 8:22 PM, January 9th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My wife had an EA with 2 make out sessions at work in an office with her supervisor, then after I found out we went to MC and i thought we were done with this A shit. she began another EA that turned into a PA with another coworker less that a half years after we delt with EA with supervisor. Now 3 months since last DD she has answered questions but never starts the conversation. She never says sorry and acts mad when I bring it up too much.I keep telling her what I need her to do to start R. I shown her many web sites and had to give here so much information on helping your BS. She does nothing, no tears, no love. She says she loves me and wants our M. She does not blame me but gives me no affection and no E support. I pour my heart out and lay barren for her in my grief. Her response Is silence, then will leave the room, comes back and starts conversations about something like the weather and nothing pertaining to pain I just showed her. My question is this: Why no remorse? She says she has no contact with OM and does not even like him since she has seen what a coward he was when I tried to confront him. Does she really want me to D like I feel she is doing? She says there is no fog, and she loves me......and DOES not want a D.
Is it normal to act like you dislike your spouse even if you do, and when you so not want the OM?

[This message edited by Confusedmnman at 8:28 PM, January 9th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2012
SandAway
♀ Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 10:19 AM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Confusedmnman,

I went back and read your recent post in JFO. You got some amazing advice there. It is hard to offer more.

Why she has no remorse is because still doesn't 'get it'. She just wants to rug sweep and has gotten away with it for 3 months. She is treating you with no respect and she certainly has no remorse. She may regret what she did, but by refusing to write an NC letter, or read things you have given her, or even considering changing jobs shows that she has no remorse.

I wish I could offer more, but perhaps talking to a Lawyer and doing the 180 on her just might wake her up.

Have you told the OM spouse? I don't know if that was already asked.


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 404 | Registered: Dec 2012
bitchboots
♀ Member
Member # 38051
Default  Posted: 8:31 PM, January 10th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A question for WS's:

How can a WS look their BS in the eyes, cry, beg for forgiveness, say that they will do anything to earn the trust back and make the relationship work, only to betray their BS again? What is the point in doing this?


Me: BS
DDay 4/27/2012---3 weeks after our 10 year anniversary.
Second DDay--1/2/2013--R is over

~~~~Finding my moxie~~~~
"May your past be the sound of your feet upon the ground"...FUN


Posts: 333 | Registered: Jan 2013 | From: Dallas
DWBH
♂ Member
Member # 35512
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, January 11th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How many WS' thought of their AP during sex with their spouse?

If you did, how long did this last (i.e. during the A only, after the A ended, etc)?

ETA: we've just had this discussion again, after an especially bad time I've been having, and she never did do this. And is surprised by it, as am I (e.g. I'm having a hard time believing her). So, I guess I'm just wondering where other WS fall on this.

[This message edited by DWBH at 2:50 PM, January 11th (Friday)]


Me: BH, 43
Her: FWW, 41 (ThornyRose)
M: 16 years, together 19
2 Daughters: 14 and 12
D Day: 9/25/2011; Lies & TT to 5/4/2012
~Double betrayal; caught them in the act~

Posts: 729 | Registered: May 2012 | From: WI
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 1:32 AM, January 12th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

bitchboots,

How can a WS look their BS in the eyes, cry, beg for forgiveness, say that they will do anything to earn the trust back and make the relationship work, only to betray their BS again? What is the point in doing this?
Range of possible answers on this one, and I'm not a WS who could even look my BW in the eye, didn't beg forgiveness, and didn't promise to do everything to earn trust back. I did cry and I did commit to working on the relationship, but not making the relationship work. Semantics...

So, in my case, it was a lot of fear, inability to trust myself, and more fear. The "good" feelings of the A were something I couldn't let go of. It was a comfort zone for me, and really more than that, it was where I could go to forget about everything else for a while.

So, all the stuff you are asking about would be a way for a WS to stay in the A, to keep those "good" feelings going. Tell the BS those things to take the pressure off, throw out minimal effort for a while, and keep in contact with the AP to keep getting that hit, to keep the high going for as long as possible. Because when you're high you aren't going to be worrying about coming down. So, fear was my driver.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 2:19 AM, January 12th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Confusedmnman,

I used to remain expressionless when my BW and would talk. Gave her nothing that she was asking for. It was very cruel.

I think there are some WS who know they F’ed up pretty bad, but are unwilling to really accept that it was their own doing. They might feel bad about it, but they will still protect themselves with indifference, or in the case of your WW, maybe even compartmentalization still. R is something that they know they “should” do, even if their heart isn’t in it. Fog may be dissipated but the visibility is still causing a slow down in traffic.

I think your WW is at a point where she could make the transition to the next step, which is starting to understand that her lack of giving you any emotion at all is just a way for her to keep protecting herself (a.k.a. not taking full responsibility for her actions).


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 12:25 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grownup

While I claim no knowledge of this theory I have read on other sites where the WS said something similar to your husband. They stated that they were able to be sexually attracted to OW but when it came to their wife, while they loved them more then anything they were not able to want sex with them. If I remember correctly they were also raised in a strict Christian household and their counselor told them they may have the Madonna–whore complex. While as I said I am not really informed on this and am no therapist myself it seemed an interesting theory although the person writing the posts seemed to be using it as a copout the second his counselor mentioned it perhaps your husband may want to look into it. Not sure if that helps since you've been given good advice already there wasn't much for me to add.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2395 | Registered: Oct 2012
n0tm3
♀ Member
Member # 37884
Default  Posted: 4:58 PM, January 12th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

At what point did you know that you were broken enough to start working on repairing your marriage? I know as the BS I am crushed. I think that WH gets it in his head but isn't there yet in his heart for us to move forward. When were you really ready to move forward to true R?


Me: BS 44
Him: WH 44
DDay #1: 12/17/12; OW 46 married 22
years
DDay #2 2/1/13 EA 6 years ago for 2 weeks with a married college friend through FB
Married 17 years, together 20 years
3 kids; 6,12,15
R trying both IC and MC

Posts: 206 | Registered: Dec 2012
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 9:31 AM, January 13th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

n0tm3,

That point was when my BW had a bag packed and an exit plan in place. There is more to it than that, and I still put my BW through false-R for six months. But that was the event that really made the change.

What that signified was that I broke my BW in regards to the M. What she showed me though was that she was not broken herself. She knew what she wanted and was going after it, while I thought I knew what I wanted, but was not so sure of the outcome. Put more simply, I finally recognized that my BW was right. Once I recognized/accepted that, it was easier to let go of what I thought was right, and all the crazy-making that went on to try to convince her and others that I was right also stopped.

The feeling at that time was one of surrender. I knew what I did, so did my BW. I knew that by fighting her, I was fighting myself too. Everything my BW stood for was everything I had stood for before the A.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6061 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
Escape artist
♀ Member
Member # 34804
Default  Posted: 6:56 PM, January 15th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My fWS slipped up recently.
He received a call from a female from his old workplace, the one where the A's took place.
She asked to meet him for a long catch up as she and another woman were having issues with management.
He said he would call her to arrange it, and that it would be good.
I am devastated as I did not believe he would so easily slip back into that old pattern. He appears to be a KISA and this is how ALL is A's started, even in his previous M.
I heard his end of the conversation and some of what she was saying so there is no denying it.
When I asked him why he would agree, he defended his actions by saying that " nothing would happen..." and when I asked him how did she get his private number, he lied to me and said that it would still be in the system at the bank. When I pressed him he admitted that she did have his number as all his old staff had it at one time.
He says he agreed as he panicked. When I have asked him why...he said he didn't know.
When I asked him if he thought it was wrong, he replied that he realised it was wrong when he turned and saw my face.
He has since rung her back and said he did not want to meet her, but now I am so worried that this has, or will happen again and I will not be around to head it off???

Can he really change, or is this a big red flag that says he may be trying, but he still doesn't get it?
Or, is there really panic when asked to meet another woman, or is that what he says it is and it really is excitement?


I gave you enough rope to hang yourself.
Me BS 48
Him WS 54
False DDay 06/02/12
3 simultaneous EA's
Multiple DDays thru till 16th April 2012
Disclosed PA 16th April 2012
Reality- alot sicker than I realized .......

Posts: 202 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
SandAway
♀ Member
Member # 37775
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, January 17th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Escape artist,

I wish I had a straightforward answer for you, but I don't.

Can he really change, or is this a big red flag that says he may be trying, but he still doesn't get it? Or, is there really panic when asked to meet another woman, or is that what he says it is and it really is excitement?

It certainly seems that he doesn't get it, but that does not mean it is a red flag. Maybe he honestly believed that she wanted to discuss 'management issues'. However, he should understand that he cannot simply meet another woman away from work to 'catch up'. Especially if this type of behavior is what started his past A's.

What is he doing to show you that he has changed his wayward ways? Is he completely transparent? Does he post here? Is he in IC? Has he read any books?


fWW
BH Tred
M 16yrs
DDay Nov. 2011

Guns don't kill people; Affairs kill people


Posts: 404 | Registered: Dec 2012
Escape artist
♀ Member
Member # 34804
Default  Posted: 4:47 PM, January 17th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you SandAway.

He is transparent I think, to be honest I am losing my care factor...

IC yes. Initially he said he didn't need to go and it was due to the expense. I replied "aren't we worth the money?" He goes about once very 6 weeks or so.
On SI and books...no to both. I asked him to again on the weekend as I needed to know he was making an effort. I said he didn't have to post but read.
The last 3 nights he has fallen asleep whilst watching tv and reading a novel.
I brought this to his attention last night, and his response was" I am seeing IC next week, I don't need to read or look at the forum".
WS thinks people on here make me upset or give me wrong advice or I make myself sad by being here.

He doesn't understand that if I no longer come on here, then it is probably because I am done with trying.

I am getting closer to that point and am 180 ing without even realising it. I am detaching and just trying to work through the pain of his lack of effort.
If we do not make it, so be it.... I am sick of trying.


I gave you enough rope to hang yourself.
Me BS 48
Him WS 54
False DDay 06/02/12
3 simultaneous EA's
Multiple DDays thru till 16th April 2012
Disclosed PA 16th April 2012
Reality- alot sicker than I realized .......

Posts: 202 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
heartache101
♀ Member
Member # 26465
Default  Posted: 8:17 AM, January 19th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any WS out there that cheated 20+ years ago??

I was curious what do you think when you see the FOW or OWs 20 years later?


There are degrees to which you let people back into your life and degrees to which you let them back into your heart-which, of course, are not the same thing

Posts: 3141 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Indiana
Grownup2010
♀ New Member
Member # 31955
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, January 19th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Grownup: "He and his IC also come up with this theory that because I was his first committed love/wife and sex partner, he dumped all his hang-ups/baggage about sex onto me and then he was free to explore with someone else."

UnexpectedSong: "Why don't you think there is something to this?
Have you done any research on the effects of a strict religious upbringing coupled with an emotionally abusive childhood?"

Grownup again: My BH thinks that this theory (of him transferring all his Christian up-bringing problems to his wife and so he is free to explore sex with women outside of the marriage) explains why he abandoned me and ran off with a 23-year old. Now that he finally understand the reason why he left me, he does nothing to change it. It's as if he's glad that he has released all those baggage onto his spouse so he can move on and divorce. By that theory, all those suffered from this Christian up-bringing must leave their first wives to suffer, and then they will be "cured" with their 2nd (or Xth) wives? Not making any sense to me.

[This message edited by Grownup2010 at 10:44 AM, January 19th (Saturday)]


Me: 41
WH: 35
Married: 2007 (together since 2003)
DD and separated since 2010
R on and off
~Still believe WH will grow up and be a responsible person one day.
~Still believe what brought us together into the marriage is still there.

Posts: 20 | Registered: Apr 2011
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