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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
LSH1
♀ New Member
Member # 37716
Default  Posted: 11:13 AM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Waywards,
My WH and I had a very deep and interesting discussion in the wee hours of Sunday morning. I was looking at his call log and expressed my anger and hurt over how often he still contacts his AP. Even after sending a NC email four months ago. Most of the calls were only a minute long, he says that she no longer wants to talk to him. He seems so heartbroken. He says that he thought their relationship was more, but she told him it was just sex. Now its like I'm living with a brooding moonstruck 35 y/o teenager. Is this normal? Is this a sign that I should just leave? I mean how can a man who is so hurt over the loss of his AP really love me the way he says? Any help a WS could give would be great.


(Me)BS&W: 39
(Him)WS&H: 36
(Her)HW: 39
Married 13 1/2 years
2 Girls 13 & 7 yrs
A: At least 2 years PA and 4 EA
D-Day: 7/2/2012

Posts: 34 | Registered: Dec 2012
She-Ra
♀ Member
Member # 36033
Default  Posted: 11:48 AM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi LSH1,

I'm sorry for what you are going through with your WH. I can't say what he is doing is 'normal'. Well maybe normal for a selfish prick of a WS. It shows that you are in false R. Clearly, if he truly wants to commit to your M, this being a big whiny 35 yr old teenager must stop and NOW!!! The loving gift of R should be treated as such - a GIFT. There is no reason for him to be calling the OW. NC means NC NC NC!!! Meaning no 1 min phone calls or even mentally thinking about her.

From what I understand, it can take months of proper NC to withdraw from an AP IF the WS is committed to the R process. He is making this a torture for both you and his stupid self..

Should you leave? I don't know if I can answer that question. I think you can only decide what is deal breaker or not. The fact that he is heartbroken over the AP is disgusting to me. He should be focusing all his love and attention on YOU!! After my d-day, I wanted nothing more than to prove my love, worth and commitment to my BH. The APs were dead to me as far I was concerned.

If WH isn't in IC yet, he should be. Also suggest his sorry ass to SI where he can post in the wayward section and help knock some sense into him.


FWW 33 BH 33
Met 8 yrs ago, together for 6, married for 3
Dday Aug 10, 2012
Beautiful baby daughter born June 2013
Now in limbo.. I'm allowed to have deal breakers too

The WW formerly known as messedupchick


Posts: 736 | Registered: Jul 2012
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 3:03 PM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi guys, I've got a question. My (hopefully)FWW got had an affair with an old abuser from her childhood. She was 12 or 13 and he was 17 or 18, never boyfriend/girlfriend she was just an easy f### due to emotional abandonment issues. Even shared her with his bff menage a toi.
Anyway, he found her on FB after his divorce and began the"you were the one who got away spiel. Took all of 11 days for her to drive to another state for a day of sex. I found out where she was and suspected what she was doing and got complete denials. Got her bff, brother and accidently her daughter involved. Daughter told son and he texted her also. Complete and total denial.
Anyway within the previous 2 years the aforementioned best friend forever had an affair, the bff's husband had a series of RA's and she helped hefty bag all of his stuff, then she attended a conference where 1 of her friends had an affair. Each and every time she vocalized her complete and thorough disgust at such behavior.
Back 2 that day. I must have texted over 100 times expressing my fears and concerns. I either got no response or a complete denial of any impropriety. In the meantime she gave him a BJ on the couch that was interrupted by his kids, he bent her over a bed and went to town that was again interrupted by the children and then they finished the Act late at night after the children had gone to bed.
Here's where my question comes in. it was immediately upon completion of the act that she said she immediately felt remorse, guilt and shame. left his place immediately and drove 3 hours to get home not arriving until after 230 in the morning. It took her 3 days to confess everything that has happened and is attempting to do everything right since then. My question is this, does this really happen? Has anyone else experienced this. I no there are a lot of family of origin issues involved, but how do you step outside of your own boundaries so quickly and apparently so easily? For goodness sakes she even teaches ethics at her place of employment.
Any suggestions?


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
LSH1
♀ New Member
Member # 37716
Helpless  Posted: 7:48 PM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you MUC. I think that my H is on his way to being an SA. At this point I don't know if it's his AP he can't get over or the A itsself. I feel like he has become addicted to the high.


(Me)BS&W: 39
(Him)WS&H: 36
(Her)HW: 39
Married 13 1/2 years
2 Girls 13 & 7 yrs
A: At least 2 years PA and 4 EA
D-Day: 7/2/2012

Posts: 34 | Registered: Dec 2012
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi LSH,

is OW still goes to the same church as you two?

I went through withdrawal for 3 months with strict NC and no sighting of XOM. Fortunately, xOM and I don't share the same circle of friends, work place, out of office hours.

During A, I had an illusion of being in love with xOM, but the fact was that I was in love with the idea of being in love.

Your H needs to go through the SWIRL.

S(hattering)- W(ithdrawal) -I(internalizing) - R(age) -L(lift) to come out of the other side, to get over the AP.

His goal is to feel indifferent toward AP.

I have no feeling for the xOM.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 11:03 PM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi 5454real,

My circumstance is different(Long Term EA/PA), so I don't have the same experience, but my assumption is that for the old sake, she was curious and for the familiarity. Her judgement got foggy and she didn't think about the consequences, family, marriage.

If she is not in IC, I suggest to go to IC and then need to look at her FOO and dig deeper.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
LSH1
♀ New Member
Member # 37716
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

beach,
She no longer regularly attends the church. She sometimes comes back for different functions that are held and to which members invite her. Her MIL goes there regularly and I think that might be part of why she stays away, but I don't know. I'll have to forward him the info on SWIRL. Thanks for answering.


(Me)BS&W: 39
(Him)WS&H: 36
(Her)HW: 39
Married 13 1/2 years
2 Girls 13 & 7 yrs
A: At least 2 years PA and 4 EA
D-Day: 7/2/2012

Posts: 34 | Registered: Dec 2012
disgracetoh.race
♂ Member
Member # 33491
Default  Posted: 3:29 AM, December 18th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi 100wind
I’m not on SI over the weekend so that is why I’m replying only now.
How do I keep up with my life in the sea of sadness? I don’t.
I was never in the process in reconciliation, because my wife refused from the start to entertain this thought. I can’t blame her, for, what I have done not many people have.
I was fighting everything that would come my way, problems with my wife, with my son, with my business, with myself.
Some battles I’ve won, most I have lost, but I have kept fighting. It would look pointless from time to time, it still does. Most of the things don’t make sense, there is no past, present or future any more. There is only fight. So I can only do whatever is in front of me.
I have lost and regained hope at least thousand of times, I have died inside a million. I have learned quite a few things about myself. There is no end to the sea of sadness, it is all around me, so, what is there to do apart from swimming, hoping that the strength will not leave me before I reach the shore. And I hope (another hope) that there is a shore.


WH 50 years
BS 48 years
Married 24 years
Son 16 years
DD 1 - 15.11.10
DD2 - 18.2.11
DD3 - 25.4.11
Desperately trying to hang in tiny space left for me. Sober since DD1, no relapses, not even close.

Posts: 100 | Registered: Sep 2011
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 4:32 AM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

it was immediately upon completion of the act that she said she immediately felt remorse, guilt and shame.

While I cannot relate to your W on the whole former abuser part of it I can relate to the above comment. When I started talking to OM I was in the fog. Never in love or any actual feelings mind you, just enjoyed the way his compliments made my confidence rise, basically ego stroking. When I got out the cab with him is when the what the fuck are you doing feeling happened, when the physical act was over was when the guilt, shame, everything sucker punched me, the stuff I had been ignoring. I threw up and immediately went home although he was asking me to stay. Somehow in the fucked up mindset I had what I had done was horrible enough, if I stayed it would be even more of a betrayal plus I wanted to be as far from him as possible. You can ignore guilt and shame up until the fog shatters and it's different for each of us as to what will shatter the fog.

I hope that helps a little.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
5454real
♂ Member
Member # 37455
Default  Posted: 1:25 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Beach & Unagie,

Thanks for the replies. I am still trying to come to an understanding of how someone could step so far outside of themselves for such a breif time and then suddenly snap back.

Unagie, what made you complete the act? My FWW said that she took a shower before the last act and while in the shower wondered basically the same thing. When pressed she said that she went through with it, it was because she didn't want to disappoint him. Got a really tough time relating to that one.

Again thanks both of you.


BH 50, WW 41
DS 23(Mine),SD 21,SS 19(Hers),DS 8 Ours, DGS 2 1/2
D=Day #1 5/04EA (Rugswept)
D-Day #2 3/10/12, TT til 3/13/12
Married 10yrs
“I have no love for a friend who loves in words alone.”
― Sophocles, Antigone

Posts: 2071 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: midwest
jasonguitarboy
♂ Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 9:46 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello waywards, my wife has been painfully honest with me. Painful for the both of us. She tells me she's in love with OM, that she felt things with him she never felt with me, that in their "break up" periods life was miserable... when they weren't with eachother and had to be with their spouses life sucked. Is this normal? I'm feeling like although she believes she's made the "right" choice she also believes she would have been so much happier with OM. is this just the fog? Is it more? Should I be concerned? I'm really feeling like second best right now...


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 185 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

jason,

A WS in an A, or fresh out of one, is going to think the AP is the key to happiness. The thoughts and feelings are so strong and so real to the WS that there really can't be any other answer to all of life's problems.

The thing that really whacked some sense into me was this excerpt:

7. Outsmart the body.

A little biology lesson here. When you are infatuated with someone, your brain chemistry whispers lies into your ears that can have you doing really stupid stuff. The spike in dopamine and norepinephrine produced with heightened sexual tension might tell you that all your troubles would end if you only kissed the handsome guy you just friended on Facebook, or ran off with the barista that makes you a perfect cappuccino. Helen Fisher, an anthropologist at Rutgers University, author of “Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic Love,” explains why emotional affairs feel so good:

Love is a drug. The ventral tegmental area is a clump of cells that make dopamine, a natural stimulant, and sends it out to many brain regions [when one is in love]. …It’s the same region affected when you feel the rush of cocaine.

Thus, identifying the physiological components of infatuation can be a strong ally in fighting the war against infidelity.

8. Treat the addiction.

Categorizing an emotional affair as an addiction is helpful in two ways: First, it depersonalizes the experience, making it easier to let go of, and it also provides some tangible steps a person can take to kick her habit. Addictions induce a trance-like state that allows the addict to detach from the pain, guilt, and shame she feels. She buys into false and empty promises—a flawed sense of intimacy and fulfillment—until reality hits. Hard. And the addict is forever vulnerable to buying into this distorted vision, which is why recovery from emotional affair never ends, and involves one smart decision after another that fosters true intimacy.

(from - http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2009/04/11/12-ways-to-recover-from-an-emotional-affair/)

IMO, the thing about saying they are happier with the AP and miserable in the M is an attempt to get the BS to make the decision to D. The BS at that point should be thinking "well, if you're so happy with them, then good riddance."

I know it isn't that easy, but hopefully you get the point.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
jasonguitarboy
♂ Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How else can a person take it? Was hoping for something a bit more encouraging... such is life, I guess.


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 185 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:42 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jason,
my A was long term EA/PA

when they weren't with eachother and had to be with their spouses life sucked.

she also believes she would have been so much happier with OM.

I felt that way when A was full blown. I felt like XOM and I were a couple and I looked at my H as a father figure. Of course, having a double life (fantasy feeling with xOM outside of M) enable for me to get confused and living in the auto pilot mode and being with my H was like became a roommate.

Beginning of R process, I was confused, but focused on myself and M, because I knew I was making the right decision.

Once I went through the cold turkey (NC with XOM), and withdraw and internalizing, and rage, I was able to come out of the other side.


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:44 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry. I guess I am not understanding.

The encouraging part is that a WS can make it through this and sort of reclassify things. And that reclassifying is not false, it is real.

BS's often feel second best, that they are the back-up plan. I don't have an answer for how to deal with that, except that when a WS gets through the infatuation phase and puts things under the light of reality, the second best/back-up component goes away for the WS. That is encouraging isn't it?

The problem is getting the WS through this phase. We see all different possibilities play out here on SI. Some WS's turn on a dime. Others take years. Sometimes the WS does it on their own, other times the BS has a bag packed before the WS gets it. Sometimes a BS packing a bag results in a WS digging in deeper in their A. You just never can predict what will happen. It is up to the WS in the end.

As long as she is saying life without the AP was miserable, then she isn't being honest with herself, because of the stuff that is mentioned in that article which I quoted above.

I'm just not sure what you mean by encouraging. Can you explain some more?


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6048 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
beach
♀ Member
Member # 7533
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jason,

she also believes she would have been so much happier with OM.
Yeah, because you don't have to worry about domestic stuffs or paying bills... It made you think that you would be living in the dream.....

[This message edited by beach at 10:46 PM, December 19th (Wednesday)]


If you don't find peace with yourself, you cannot find anywhere else.
Appreciate and cherish what I have.

Posts: 8680 | Registered: Jul 2005 | From: midwest
jasonguitarboy
♂ Member
Member # 22939
Default  Posted: 11:54 PM, December 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

By encouraging I was hoping for something extraordinary like "oh she's just in the fog, give her a couple days." LOL, Idk... things are tough right now...


What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....right?
"And there's a change, that even with regret, cannot be undone."
"No one plans to take the path that leads us lower..."
Me-BS 35
Her-WS 32 (surviving1979)

Posts: 185 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: nowhere
Unagie
♀ Member
Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 3:44 AM, December 21st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

5454 I wish I could give you some kind of huge answer but the reason I went through with the physical act was 1. Because I was drunk and alcohol helped dull some reasoning.

2. Because once I was there I thought it was inevitable. I had gone too far and this had to mean something. It fucking had to mean something that I had risked so fucking much but it didn't.

3. I wasn't worth more then the act to myself in that moment.

I am ashamed and the reasons why will never be good enough. Why I let to start, why I let it go physical, why why why. They're all shit.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
armywife80
♀ New Member
Member # 37837
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, December 21st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WH had sex with a prostitute while out of town. He was in Germany traveling home from Afghanistan. He says that this was the first time and he confessed to me even though he could have easily hid it from me.

Questions for other WS: if you had sex with a prostitute, was it a one time thing? What other stuff might I expect to come out?


Army Wife 6+ years with 2 kids
WH: (AlwaysAway) Had sex with a prostitute on his way home for R&R.
DDay: 14 NOV 2012
I don't want to be here anymore.

Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2012 | From: Fayetteville, NC
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 11:20 AM, December 21st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

My WW and I had a pleasant evening at the theatre where she placed my arm around her during the show, held my hand afterwards and basically engaged with me.

At home I was affectionate, telling her she was beautiful and desireable. She got a pained / anguish look on her face and told me she was "uncomfortable".

The next evening she told me she had no "feelings" towards me and I would be better off without her.

Any thoughts?

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
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