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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: BS Questions for WS's - Part 7
patience?
♀ New Member
Member # 33405
Default  Posted: 1:44 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WS's: What would be your response to your BS when a polygraph was mentioned?

Qualifying information: Lots of lying and TT around affair, last lie: 6 weeks ago.


Me - BW 28
Him - WxH 31

2 DD's March and August 2011.
Divorce final August 2012.

R in progress...


Posts: 30 | Registered: Sep 2011
pjkmkjm23
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Member # 35778
Default  Posted: 6:40 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi! I'm a dolt and posted the below comment/question in the wayward board and got my wrist slapped, then kindly was told to post this here. Now that I've seen this and that this is Part 7, I have no doubt that some version of my question has probably repeatedly been asked. I'm going to go back through all of this and read as much as I can as I'm sure it will help. I hope nobody minds me posting this again since I already typed it out and would like a fresh perspective on it anyhow. Here it was:

------------------------------------------
I really hope it's ok for me to post here. I read the guidelines and as far as I can tell, this should be ok.
I just posted a new topic in D/S entitled "Is this normal or do I need help?". To sum it up quickly, basically I am 5 months out from DDay and I cannot stop thinking about my STBXWW. I'm talking about constantly thinking of her every hour on the hour...and it's still affecting my sleep.

My question to any WS is during your A, did you ever think about your BS? In my situation, she moved out on DDay and has been living with her AP since. I can only imagine that when you have someone new that you focus a lot of your time and energy on them, leaving little if any for the BS.

What I can't wrap my head around is that I know we are over and I want to stop thinking about her yet I just can't. Is it, or was it that hard for her? Did she detach and go through what I'm going through before DDay or is it that perhaps she never loved me as much as I did her? I know no one can answer this in my case but I would SO APPRECIATE hearing how it was for any WS during their A. I seem to have this overwhelming desire to try and understand where she is at and perhaps hearing from other WS's may help me with that.

And if it was inappropriate for me to post this here, I sincerely apologize and it won't happen again. Thank you.


Posts: 284 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Canada
NothngElseMattrs
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Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 7:05 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey patience?-
I would ask what he wanted to know, because I would want a crack at being honest. If he didn't believe my answers, then I'd concede of course and give him a poly.

That said, as a madhatter, I'd insist on one from him as well, since would already be paying a polygrapher anyway, but that might be an unhealthy tit-for-tat attitude on my part :/

Re: your H.. if he has answered all your questions you have thrown at him, and you still don't believe his answers, I suggest a keylogger. It might be easier for you to check that way. If a keylogger is a non-option, or you think that he is NC with the AP and there is nothing currently to find from his computer activity, then I do think you should suggest the poly and present it as something that you need in order to move forward, assuming that is the case.

A remorseful WS who has answered your questions honestly will agree to take a poly, maybe with a little hesitation, but will say yes, IMO. An unremorseful WS or one still involved in an A or whatever their wayward activity of choice was will say no, cite how inaccurate they are ("it's not admissible in court!" is a line that gets tossed around it seems from SI posts), and argue with you. The meat and potatoes of it is this:

Is he willing to do what it takes to help you heal?

Hi pjkmkjm (holy letters!)-
It's okay, BS seem to start topics in Wayward every so often. You weren't the first

My question to any WS is during your A, did you ever think about your BS?

Yes, that is part of why the ONS stopped when it did. The NC afterwards was essential too because I knew staying in contact was bad and wrong for my M.
Is it, or was it that hard for her? Did she detach and go through what I'm going through before DDay or is it that perhaps she never loved me as much as I did her?

While I don't know because I stayed with my H, I'll give this a shot... It might be that she just rugswept the whole thing. You know her better than anyone else in the world, is she a person capable of a lot of empathy and feelings in general? Or does she cope with things by stuffing her feelings/ drinking/doing drugs/etc to self medicate in some other way? It is possible she never loved you like you love her, but my best guess is that she just rugswept and decided to not think about you and the M because she didn't want to feel like the bad guy.

I hope that helps, and I hope you can start sleeping better and feeling better soon!


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
windowsnotwalls
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Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 10:03 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi pjkmkjm23,

Yes, absolutely I thought of my BS during the A. I had detached myself, had even convinced myself "I love him but I'm not in love with him anymore." (which was a total lie to myself) However the detachment only helped so much. My first physical encounter with my AP, nearly made me sick to my stomach from the jolt of how different he was. It made me sad, made me miss my SO to the point I almost cried, but again, I had convinced myself there was no way forward anymore for us, so told myself "only choice is to move on".

This all may sound absurd to you (as it should because it is!) but that is the kind of distorted, delusional kind of thinking that went on during my A.

I can't say in any way what her thinking was, but you clearly asked for our own experience, and that was mine.

I'm sorry you're hurting. She may be in la-la fantasy land in her head still, but when she's in her quiet moments (alone at home, driving down the road, etc) and she doesn't have the numbing distractions of her affair, those moments of clarity will sting.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
BaxtersBFF
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Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:15 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StrongButBroken,

Lashing out after d-day is pretty normal. I think lashing out after false-R is not unusual either.

What was the period like between d-day and false-r?

A WS is typically going to do whatever they need to do in order to make everything look like itís someone elseís problem. Some go overboard on this path.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6060 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
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Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

patience?,

If I would have been asked to take a poly before committing to R, I would have not agreed to it. The reason would become apparent about 7 months later when my BW discovered false R.

Now? Bring it on. Nothing to hide these days.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6060 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
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Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:27 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pjk,

I actively tried to not think about my BW during the A. There is a backstory that goes along with my situation though, and it was an intentional thing to not think of my BW which also fostered much resentment toward her over time. You are right though, the ďnew lurvĒ of the A is overpowering for many WSís, including myself.

As to your WW, she probably hasnít detached, and she has probably avoided going through what you are going through now by compartmentalizing everything. She can wrap herself up so tightly in the OM that she can put off worrying about your for a long time.

Thatís what Aís are all about, avoiding the reality of life, putting off dealing with issues that are uncomfortable, and then blaming the outcome on someone else, thereby creating resentment and anger toward the BS for pushing the WS away.


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6060 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
BaxtersBFF
♂ Member
Member # 26859
Default  Posted: 10:48 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nvr flt sch pain,

1) How did you justify your affair to yourself and your BS? Did you feel guilty and how did you supress that?

I justified my EA by believing fully that my BW did not love me. I had evidence both of her ability to not love me and of her inability to recognize how that hurt me. These were absolute truths to me, yet they were not enough to give me a valid reason to D, so I cheated. That's the Cliff Notes version...There was some guilt because I knew cheating was not an answer for anything, but once I fell into it, it was so easy to deny everything else.

2) For those in a LTA, did you love your BS and if you did, how were you able to lie and cheat whilst maintaining your day to day life with them? (Sorry for the sloppy wording here, it sounds like I am having a go but I'm not. I just wanted to understand how you were able to carry on your day to day life with your BS whilst living a seperate life you kept secret from them)

I don't count mine as an LTA, the active A was only 5 months or so, and the hanging on after being thrown under the bus lasted another couple years. While I my head had an LTA with my ass, the EA wasn't really an LTA.

Day to day life during those five or so months was a process of distancing myself from anything resembling intimacy or anything to do with the family. I tried to be absent.

3) For those who rekindled their affair after their BS found out, why and how could you do this?

The rekindling was one-sided. As mentioned above, I was thrown under the bus. It would take almost two more years for me to start to work on R.

I had my reasons...none of which are valid post-A, but it was all about the EA being someone else's fault. It was all about how I was the victim. My BW didn't love me, yet that wasn't enough of a reason to D and break up a family, so I distanced myself and went down a road that I knew had warning signs and barricades. Drove right through them all.

4) What did it take to 'wake you up' and what made you end the affair?

My BW packed a bag and was ready to leave. She had an exit plan that I knew she could make work. She told me directly that she was going to find the love that she deserved. And she was going to leave me with the kids, the house, the bills, and everything else related to reality. I haven't seen anyone else take that path here on SI. It worked for my BW. It finally got me to get off the damned fence and start to see what I had to lose. I still can't believe how far I pushed her.

I may well have asked similar questions in the past but I'm working with IC to try and pin down my exact outstanding issues and understand what it is that is affecting me and this is what I've come up with.

I've answered those same questions in the past. It is therapy for me too...

Thank you so much to the WS who give us BS answers on here. I appreciate that it must be hard for your to frag up these things for our benefit and I personally want to thank you for the responses, it does help me 'understand' certain aspects of this that I can't get answers to from my WS.

Thanks again in advance of any insights.....


Thank you.

[This message edited by BaxtersBFF at 10:50 PM, October 19th (Friday)]


WH - 44
BW - gerrygirl

Posts: 6060 | Registered: Dec 2009 | From: Boise
SBB
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Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 11:48 PM, October 19th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BaxtersBFF, thank you for responding.

What was the period like between d-day and false-r?

We were under the same roof and he would seek me out to talk to me about screwed I was financially. Gloated that he only had to give me $8k per year CS and said "I'm worried about how you'll cope" in a very condescending way.

In False R I asked why he was so cruel. He says he was dying to talk to me even if it meant fighting. He also told me he was hurt that I didn't fight for him, didn't fight with him or rage at him. I just shut down, accepted it and worked towards full S/D. He said he thought I never loved him. I told him I accepted it because I thought I would not survive another DD without being totally ruined/damaged forever.

I also slept around a lot between S and False R. He hacked into my FB and found out. Not revenge. Ensuring R was impossible because I wasn't strong enough to say no when he woke up. Not a healthy response and not one I've repeated this S but a choice I made at the time.

I thought we worked through most that during false R - mainly by rugsweeping. I was devastated at the end of course but saw False R kind of like a nice kiss goodbye. I felt we had said a lot that was unsaid. It wasn't brutal and savage like DD. He chose this final S because my requirements were unacceptable to him and because I couldn't tell him it would result in full R. I didn't know.

I was very sad that it had been broken beyond repair but I didn't hate him and I wasn't full of rage. I was/am mourning.

I just don't think a WS who ever had any real remorse would do this now. I expected he would realise it was simply broken beyond repair and not be out to do as much damage as possible IYKWIM?

I don't want to damage him. I want to heal from this, wish him the best and adjust to this new normal.

It's difficult to not loathe him when I am being screwed over so badly and when he's being so cruel. I don't want to loathe him. I want peace.

I don't want to fight him and make this even uglier and go on for longer. He is goading me to do just that and I don't understand why.

Unless he was never remorseful and this is just how he rolls. He can't cheat on me anymore so this is the next best thing.

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 11:56 PM, October 19th (Friday)]


Sending all of the love and strength I can muster to Phoenix1 and her family.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal."

Posts: 4570 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
NothngElseMattrs
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Default  Posted: 7:52 AM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

SBB-
He is goading me to do just that and I don't understand why.

The overall tone of your post makes me think it sounds like he is mad that you aren't staying anymore and this is how he responds to your rejection.

He is only thinking of himself, and you were viewed an an extension of himself. Taking that away shakes him up.

It sounds like you are at peace with your decision, so hold on tight to that. My guess is that he gets more desperate when he "gets" that you aren't changing your mind and D comes closer.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
SBB
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Member # 35229
Default  Posted: 3:55 PM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you NEM.

My guess is that he gets more desperate when he "gets" that you aren't changing your mind and D comes closer.

He is definitely angry at me about it - all my fault etc. This means there was never any remorse, right? The entitlement is still there, blame shifting, lack of empathy etc.

I ask because its something I've been working through. A part of my grieving has unfortunately included second guessing myself. Rationally I know he did this but emotionally... I sometimes wonder if there was true remorse there and I refused to see it.

I'm looking for help to kill off theses last stragglers of false hope that shame me enormously.

ETA I should explain on 18 Oct 02 we met and he proposed 18 Oct 03. It's a weird triggery time for me ATM.

Sellers remorse?

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 4:00 PM, October 20th (Saturday)]


Sending all of the love and strength I can muster to Phoenix1 and her family.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal."

Posts: 4570 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
nlovemyfamily
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Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, October 20th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need to ask ws or fws if they worried more about hurting your AP feelings than your own kids? Would your AP feelings supercede your family's? Also do or did you know how your family felt betrayed by your continued contact with AP? If you could please explain how knowing being with AP would alienate your family yet you were willing to sacrifice family for AP? Please let me know where your real thoughts were re: these issues if you could Please???

[This message edited by nlovemyfamily at 7:35 PM, October 20th (Saturday)]


Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
UnexpectedSong
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Default  Posted: 12:20 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

nlove - You need to detach. He's not coming back. You cannot control him by understanding and figuring him out.

You have asked a lot of questions in many possible ways about whether he considered his family - the answer is he did not. End of story.

[This message edited by UnexpectedSong at 12:21 AM, October 21st (Sunday)]


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
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Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

StrongButBroken /

hostile interactions over every little thing,

saying damaging things to the kids,

blaming the BS for causing this mess,

screwing the BS as much as they can financially

Ok...

I think this shows there was zero remorse at all - ever.

How can you have any doubt?

Does that warrant this behaviour or is this just who he is and now I'm finally seeing it?

Does it matter if this cruelty is caused by lack of remorse or by his inner character that he is finally showing?

The only thing you need to ask is will he change?


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
UnexpectedSong
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Default  Posted: 12:37 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pjk -

My question to any WS is during your A, did you ever think about your BS?

Yes, I did. But it means nothing.

The WS could have thought about the BS and that makes the betrayal even worse. Or the WS never thought about the BS and that makes the betrayal even worse.

What I can't wrap my head around is that I know we are over and I want to stop thinking about her yet I just can't.

Right. You have not stopped loving her. That is okay. You are not weird.

Is it, or was it that hard for her? Did she detach and go through what I'm going through before DDay or is it that perhaps she never loved me as much as I did her?

She had time to detach. I am sure she loved you very, very much. But some perfect storm happened and her broken coping mechanism kicked in and you were the collateral damage.


WW(SA)
"Feedback is the breakfast of champions." - Boris Becker

Posts: 6046 | Registered: Nov 2008 | From: California
SBB
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Default  Posted: 1:02 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How can you have any doubt?

TBH I don't really have any doubt, but it will take me a while to kick this habit of second guessing myself. This has rocked even my trust in my own judgement.

Does it matter if this cruelty is caused by lack of remorse or by his inner character that he is finally showing?

Very true. It's very difficult to see what you have been trying so very hard not to see for 10 years.

The only thing you need to ask is will he change?

No he won't. He has a compulsive need to loathe himself. In his mind it gives him his "drive". I never understood why he loathed himself until this.

Thank you US for helping me see the forest more clearly. There was never any remorse so I have chosen the right path this time.

No more punishing myself. Back to healing now.


Sending all of the love and strength I can muster to Phoenix1 and her family.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory no one can steal."

Posts: 4570 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Australia
nlovemyfamily
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Member # 15258
Default  Posted: 9:48 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UnexpectedSong,
I am detached from him but not my kids and they are the ones with father wounds. I just was asking to hear from WS or fws to try to understand how a ws would sell their soul at the expense of their family? Pretty big question I thought!!!

Posts: 415 | Registered: Jul 2007 | From: nj
Hope24
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Member # 9344
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Nlove:

Need to ask ws or fws if they worried more about hurting your AP feelings than your own kids?

No. I was not worried about hurting the AP.

Would your AP feelings supercede your family's?

No, my own feelings superceded everything else. It was a very selfish mindset and I was convinced I would never get caught.

Also do or did you know how your family felt betrayed by your continued contact with AP?

If you by "continued contact" you mean after D-day, there was none. I went NC immediately after. If you mean continued contact during the affair, see above.


If you could please explain how knowing being with AP would alienate your family yet you were willing to sacrifice family for AP?

I didn't believe I would be alienated from my family because I never thought they would find out. I was an expert compartmentalizer and knee deep in denial.

Nlove, if you are looking for feedback from WS who have left their families like your WH did, you may not have luck finding one on this forum. I don't know any WS in that situation on this site.


She packed up her potential and all she had learned and headed out to change a few things.

Posts: 7603 | Registered: Jan 2006 | From: Poolside
pjkmkjm23
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Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks to everyone who answered for me. Thanks especially to UnexpectedSong because I love direct, no beating around the bush, answers.

I only disagree with your first answer US. To me, if she wasn't thinking of me at all would be far worse than her still thinking of me yet carrying on with her A. Knowing her as well as I do, she won't have it in her to admit she was wrong so she'll throw everything possible into making this A work rather than giving up and admitting she was wrong about everything.

Your other 2 answers are dead-on I think. Thank you.


Posts: 284 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Canada
pjkmkjm23
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Member # 35778
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, October 21st (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WindowsNotWalls: I just reread this again and you nailed something too I believe. Since DDay, which is also when STBXWW left, that girl has been working her ass off to stay busy. I wondered about that because when she's not working she tries to surround herself with people....it's like she's afraid to be alone. I truly think when she is alone with her thoughts that that is when she starts to consider everything and perhaps she's not overly thrilled with what she is thinking.

Posts: 284 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: Canada
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