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User Topic: Spouses/Partners of Sex Addicts-9
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, September 2nd (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey ladies, it's been a while but I try to make time to keep up. Sounds like many are having tough times and big decision times. I wish you all strength and resolve in whatever you decide.

Lastin, if you're ready to throw in the towel, then more time in limbo will probably drag out the pain. Have you checked out the D/S threads? They probably have the best advice about how to go about it. IMO, though, if your mind is made up, time won't ease your pain and give you more healing and answers if your SAWH is not game to help heal this M.

(((hugs))) and I hope you can be able to smile those tears away someday soon.

ETA forgot to post an update on my own stuff with SAWH/BH. Trying for R but some days are exceptionally painful when I give myself permission to feel that searing pain. Knowing he lied to me nearly our whole relationship and took away choices and years of my life (that I would never have given him had I known the deepest truth of him and who he is and what he had done).... Hard to double down and give him more. The key logger discussion was interesting and kind of reflects how I feel... If he wants to hide shit, he will find a way to do it. Fooled me well enough and was thorough enough before. I just hope I can stop looking over my shoulder someday.

[This message edited by NothngElseMattrs at 9:34 PM, September 2nd (Sunday)]


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
Notmetoo2011
♀ Member
Member # 32912
Default  Posted: 7:28 AM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lastin

Maybe filing for D will give your WH the kick in the ass he needs to commit to recovery. If it does you can always stop proceedings before the D is final, if not then you are not wasting more time in a one sided M.

My SAWH did a lot of horrible things while he was actively in the addiction. Porn, LTAs, STAs,, ONS, fetish parties. Since D Day he has been remorseful and open and actively seeking recovery. The horror of what he has done is still with me and I still don't know whether I can get past it, but I am trying for now. He knows that this is his one and only second chance. Any slips with other people and I am gone. A slip with porn and I might be gone. If I feel he is not invested in our M at any point from now on it will also be the end.

You have put up with enough. If your SAWH is not interested in recovery then you owe it to yourself to move on.

(((lastin)))


Me-BW 47
SAWH 48
Married 25 years.
4 children
D-Day 26/07/11
Multiple PAs, ONS,

Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2011
SabinatheOwl
♀ Member
Member # 30023
Default  Posted: 8:48 AM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lastin', if you're ready file. Down in S&D they say that the process can be slowed down if you feel the need. It isn't a process that happens quickly. IMO, there really aren't any 'rules', any black and white answers. Do what honors *your* needs and feelings.

We're here for you, ((lastin))

~ Sabina


Details & story in profile

"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow

"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."

Maya Angelou


Posts: 1350 | Registered: Nov 2010 | From: Metro DC
MissMovingOn
♀ Member
Member # 30720
Default  Posted: 12:45 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, I think there's another OW... or at least someone he is trying to make an OW... It's someone I've been uncomfortable with their friendship with for a while and we had previously agreed that they wouldn't have any contact but he went behind my back and started talking to her again and then a year later said that it was time for me to "get over it" and he could decide who was safe to be friends with. He's deleting their texts and then deleting the history of their texts as well but he missed a couple of entries in the history so I saw a message from him to her that said "I think I have to apologize for last night..." and a message back that said "No worries you seemed like you were feeling pretty good last night" from a night that he was at a BBQ with his ball team and he had no reason to have called/texted/talked to her but our online account shows a ton of texts. Can't tell yet if there were any calls because the statement hasn't posted.

When I saw it my first instinct was to call her and ask what it is about but then I realized if she is an OW she has no reason to tell me the truth. The facts are he's hiding something and that's not okay.

I keep waiting for the right "evidence", but the truth is that I already have all of the evidence I need. He is an active addict who refuses to acknowledge he has a problem and seek recovery and he will keep acting out over and over again no matter how many promises he makes otherwise. Now I just need to get the courage to do what I already know I need to do... IC on Friday...


Me: BS, 34
Him: (SA/NPD)WH, 31
Multiple ddays since 2010 (Latest January 15th 2013) - not counting anymore!
Left me for 20 yr old COW. Moving on!

Posts: 351 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: West Coast Canada
MissMovingOn
♀ Member
Member # 30720
Default  Posted: 12:56 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also: Found this this weekend and it is hilarious and perfect: http://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/MjAxMi0wMjIxZDUyYTdiNDNhZjJj


Me: BS, 34
Him: (SA/NPD)WH, 31
Multiple ddays since 2010 (Latest January 15th 2013) - not counting anymore!
Left me for 20 yr old COW. Moving on!

Posts: 351 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: West Coast Canada
CallMeRed
♀ Member
Member # 36312
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Even though my heart is so out of the marriage, my financial stake isn't. I need to get myself through school and get on my feet again, and by golly, I am going to wring out that lemon of a marriage for every bit of juice I can get before I toss it out.

I love this. I absolutely love it. And if I am honest, I can see me doing similar here if I decide R is out of the question.


D-Day 19 July 2012
Me - BS - 41
Him - WH - 40
Stepchild: 16 Children: 9, 8, 5
Together 14 years, married 10.5 years.
Status: aiming for R with a Plan B just in case.

Posts: 275 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: England
Compartmented
Member
Member # 29410
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, September 3rd (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello, Ladies,

I'm a lurker, coming out of the shadows at long last. I've been reading and feeling the pain that is shared here for months/years. I was trying to get out of my marriage and concerned that my STBX might find my posts and use them against me.

Well, after a over a year, we have settled our divorce, on the eve of a jury trial where all of his dirty laundry was about to be exposed. He was trying to squash me like a bug.

I feel the most kinship here on this thread, but probably belong on the NPD thread as well. This has been the hardest thing I've done. I know that addiction can bring about narcissistic tendencies, but I feel what I was dealing with was a sociopath with several addictions. I'll be healing a long time from this.

I'm so happy to be able to post again. I'm about six pages behind in reading, as things got so hectic at the end.

Big hugs to everyone! This is painful stuff.


Posts: 1055 | Registered: Aug 2010
MissMovingOn
♀ Member
Member # 30720
Default  Posted: 1:26 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well holy s%^&. Totally unprompted by me WH just took an online screening test for SA which (no surprise to me) he scored as being SA. He said he took it to "prove me wrong" and then sheepishly told me that I wasn't. First step to recovery is acknowledging the problem, right? Obviously this doesn't necessarily mean he's going to choose recovery but at least he might have a little less self denial... Two therapists and his wife couldn't get through to him but an online test did...


Me: BS, 34
Him: (SA/NPD)WH, 31
Multiple ddays since 2010 (Latest January 15th 2013) - not counting anymore!
Left me for 20 yr old COW. Moving on!

Posts: 351 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: West Coast Canada
MissMovingOn
♀ Member
Member # 30720
Default  Posted: 1:34 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Awww crap he just hit an article about the importance of working a twelve step program for recovery and has lost all interest. I tried to briefly explain to him how I interpret "higher power" as a "non-believer" in working my steps but his eyes glazed over and I think he totally tuned out.


Me: BS, 34
Him: (SA/NPD)WH, 31
Multiple ddays since 2010 (Latest January 15th 2013) - not counting anymore!
Left me for 20 yr old COW. Moving on!

Posts: 351 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: West Coast Canada
GeniusOrAFool
♀ Member
Member # 30940
Default  Posted: 7:08 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BWinBC,

Your are right...admitting he is dealing with SA is huge!!

Rather than starting with the support group, gently encourage him to make an appt with a CSAT.
This will be a scary prospect as well, but he might be more comfortable with talking in private about his issues with one person (CSAT) rather than jumping into a group format. Also, his CSAT will help him to understand that many SA's participate in 12 step without being 'believers'. The 12 steps are very adaptable to any faith or non-faith position. I think this is a pretty common 'card' newly diagnosed SA's play as a way to avoid a group setting where they fear feeling exposed and pathetic. Understandable. He probably needs an 'outsider'...someone other than you...to explain the whole 12 step group thing in ways which will, hopefully, result in his compliance.

Direct him to seek (private, safe environment) CSAT help first. Then, let the CSAT take over...with you removing yourself from involvement in his treatment... and refocusing on yourself.

I wish you all the best.


I'm back together again.
I'm staring in the mirror
and it's been so long
since I've seen you my friend.

~Citizen Cope


Posts: 454 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: PA
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 7:40 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm having a lot of stress at the moment -- not affair or SA or WH induced. Mr.DD has been caring and supportive during this time. Better than I could ask for. He is worried about me.

He has his first CSAT appointment next week. The plan was that I would also attend. The therapist thought it would be a good idea and treats couples and BS of SA too. Mr.DD told him I know everything so it's ok that I come. I don't think I know everything. I know what he is willing to tell me in slow painful TT and that's it.

When I learned of his affair I thought this was the first one -- now I think that's almost impossible. He's been a SA too long for this to be his first go round. The lying came so easily. I look back and question any time he was nasty to me and think he was doing something then -- I just don't know what.

I don't want to go to his CSAT and have him lie because I'm there. He needs to be honest with the therapist.

Do you go to your spouse's CSAT or as a couple?

It's sad I can't accept Mr.DD's help and appreciate everything he is doing without all the doubts and questions. I was told for years how lucky I was to have a spouse like him and he's being wonderful again but after everything he's done -- it's not the same. The trust is gone. I used to think he could handle stress, now I know that was not true. I worry stress will send him into an addiction spiral as I'm sure it did before.

I question every motive, every action, every word. It's very sad it came to this. I'm not sure he can ever make amends to me for what he's done.


Growing forward

Posts: 1446 | Registered: Sep 2011
GeniusOrAFool
♀ Member
Member # 30940
Default  Posted: 8:23 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dixie,

The only reason I would suggest that you EACH see your own personal CSAT separately is because YOU need your own specialized help and support being the spouse of a SA.

One option ~ do IC each having your own CSAT, but then both consent for the CSAT's to communicate with each other. This gives your WH that 'safe' environment in which he will hopefully be fully genuine and honest with his CSAT so that she can actually help him. Your presence won't effect his degree of honesty...or interfere in any necessary raw conversation which he should be having with the CSAT.
But, at the same time, if you have concerns regarding his treatment...or anything really...they can be addressed with your CSAT having communications with his.

Also, when appropriate or indicated, the 4 of you can have a session together...to really work on marital aspects and repair.

I have my own CSAT. She has helped ME tremendously! I hope you are able to get that kind of personal help and support. It's been vital to my own understanding and healing.

I wish you all the best.


I'm back together again.
I'm staring in the mirror
and it's been so long
since I've seen you my friend.

~Citizen Cope


Posts: 454 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: PA
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 8:39 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks GoaF

Problem is this is the only CSAT I've heard of in the area. Maybe he can recommend someone else but if he also specializes with MC and BS of SA he may not suggest any one else or see the need.

I have an IC and this is out of her range of expertise. I see her for EMDR.

Maybe I'm feeling exhausted, defeated and overwhelmed but I've lost interest to go to the appointment next week.


Growing forward

Posts: 1446 | Registered: Sep 2011
KickedintheGut
♀ Member
Member # 30086
Default  Posted: 9:10 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BWinBC -

I tried to briefly explain to him how I interpret "higher power" as a "non-believer" in working my steps but his eyes glazed over and I think he totally tuned out.

Back away from the addict, hon. You cannot guide him through the 12 steps.

Him admitting he might have a problem is huge and it's going to take some time to settle in.

If he can stop acting out while he gets into recovery, that's a good sign (I didn't see where you said if he was actively acting out.)

Let me tell you a little of my story and maybe it will help. We are 20 months out from my initial DDay - before I knew anything about SA.

The first time my husband was given the idea he might be, he kind of said "Nah." The next week, it settled in. A few weeks later, he said that it fit. His addiction will fight to keep him in. SA's are lazy. They don't want to do the hard work. But, they can.

My SAWH went to his first few months of SA 12 step meetings with the definite attitude "Well at least I'm not THAT guy." He was defensive, but he went. He got a sponsor, but never called. He wouldnt' make daily calls - he would complain about how nobody called him (there's that great entitlement aspect of SA!) He didn't make any connections. SLOWLY - he started realizing that he was THAT guy and sometimes even that OTHER guy (the one who really fucked up.) I would say it took him at least 6 months to START to settle in to an acceptance mode.

He did not believe in a higher power. He wasn't willing to accept that 12 step is BIG into letting you find what your higher power is. It doesn't have to be God. See, here's the thing. That's an out for them. They can say, well I don't know that I believe in God, Easter Bunny, Tinkerbell, etc..., so I can't commit to this process.

During that time we did the 90 days of no sex. He went cold turkey on mbing, porn, cyber after DDay. So he was doing the actions to sobriety, without changing the mindset. However, slowly, he started to let some of it sink in.

This takes a long time. That's why they say not to attempt MC with an SA for at least 2 years of active recovery. They will make you crazy.

Now, he goes to meetings and he understands. He participates. He gets involved. He is not done by any stretch. I would say he's just now on a good path to healing. He's where I wish he would have been a year ago from now, but... and here's the thing I'm trying to stress...

It is NOT the spouse's responsibility to guide the SA through their recovery. You do not buy them books. You do not suggest they call their sponsor. You do not point out that why would people call him when he never calls them (I am SO guilty of this one on more than one occasion.) You do not enable them to make you responsible for their recovery.

What you can do is tell them how you feel about it - without it being manipulative. You can ask if they've spoken to any of the guys at their meeting. You can say "How was your meeting tonight."

Then you can go take a bath, read a book, bake a cake, hit the Starbucks, whatever you can do to care for yourself. Because your responsibility right now is to you (and your kids if you have any.) You have to detach your sense of responsibility and caring from your husbands recovery.

Be gentle with yourself. You are important. You deserve better. If your husband can do the work, he can be better and what you deserve. You need to find out if you are willing to wait - if you're not, that is OK. You have the choices now (even when it doesn't feel like any of them are good.)

I've rambled for today.

Wishing you peace and love,
-kicked

[This message edited by KickedintheGut at 9:12 AM, September 4th (Tuesday)]


Me - BW (38) Him (calcitro) - SAWH (38)
2 Kids Working on R
DDay#1 - 11/9/10 - 2 year EA/PA
DDay #2 - 12/9/10
Disclosure - 4/8/11
Timeline - 5/9/11

Posts: 492 | Registered: Nov 2010
GeniusOrAFool
♀ Member
Member # 30940
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dixie,

In my opinion, your HW's SA is his 'baby' in that HE needs to pour his focus and energies into getting himself well before he can even begin to work on marital repair. I think that trying to do MC particularly during early SA treatment, only complicates things and can distract away from accomplishing something which is vital to marital repair ~ his gaining sexual/emotional health so that his involvement in marital repair is real and productive.

It may be that this CSAT wants to meet with you both together initially, but then see you individually to help and support each of you before beginning a shift in focus onto the M sometime down the road. I think this is fine. And, if for you, personally, it's between seeing this CSAT or seeing none at all for YOURSELF, then you should go. Like I said, the CSAT likely has it in his agenda to counsel you individually. If so, please go. This is something that you may not realize you NEED, but you do.

I know how you feel..."exhausted, defeated, and overwhelmed". I felt all those thing plus frustrated, angry, sad, anxiety, weak, uncertain, and even embarrassed/shameful. All things I bet you feel too...particularly that you now have to see a CSAT on top of everything else! My stomach was in knots for the 1 hour drive to her office the first time. But, seeing a CSAT for myself was the BEST decision I ever made for myself in the aftermath of d-day.

I am sorry you are in this situation, but better days are coming. Not because your WH is going to get 'better', but because YOU will.


I'm back together again.
I'm staring in the mirror
and it's been so long
since I've seen you my friend.

~Citizen Cope


Posts: 454 | Registered: Jan 2011 | From: PA
DixieD
♀ Member
Member # 33457
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks GoaF,
I suspect it is exactly as you describe -- the therapist wants to meet us both together initially and not focus on the M till sometime down the road. We've not had MC since early after dday when I realized we both need to get ourselves focused on first. I felt the MC was blame-shifting onto me. This was long before SA was discussed.

I do see this as his stuff to work out. We will support each other but I played the role of Therapist for too long. EMDR has helped me a lot but someone specialized would be better.

We have read books on FoO and communication and are planning another M focused communication direction soon but we've both questioned if it is too soon. Help with communication couldn't hurt but part of the problem is we try to focus on too much things at once.


Growing forward

Posts: 1446 | Registered: Sep 2011
Notmetoo2011
♀ Member
Member # 32912
Default  Posted: 1:27 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dixie,

I see the same CSAT as my SAWH. She is the only one in our area and even she works an hour away and only travels to our city once a week. So far it has been helpful, way better then the various ICs I had tried previously.

My SAWH has been seeing the CSAT since January. She was concerned that I was not getting any help so suggested a joint session with us and her H who is an IC but not a CSAT. At that session she said she or her H could see me individually if I was interested. I chose to see her because of her certification and because she does counsel many other SA spouses. I have only seen her a few times so far but the understanding and compassion I get from her make a huge difference from the looks of bewilderment I got from the previous ICs.

Give it a try. Seeing the CSAT individually yourself should not influence the relationship your H has with him.


Me-BW 47
SAWH 48
Married 25 years.
4 children
D-Day 26/07/11
Multiple PAs, ONS,

Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2011
scaredyKat
♀ Member
Member # 25560
Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dixie...

I don't think I know everything. I know what he is willing to tell me in slow painful TT and that's it.

Tell the CSAT that. It is a valid concern. Most of us don't have the whole story.

I don't want to go to his CSAT and have him lie because I'm there. He needs to be honest with the therapist.

It took awhile, but eventually my SAfWH did come clean with his CSAT. I didn't go to the first meeting, but I checked in occasionally.

There aren't many CSATs in this area that take our insurance and are well respected. One option is someone well-versed in addictions in general and the traumas they cause the partners/families.

You might also look into SA workshops. We attended a 10 week workshop run by a CSAT that provided both of us with much information and education. It required a hefty commute and a fair amount of money, but it got us onto the right track as we started recovery. Like yours, my SAfWH is trying hard to repair the devastation. It is a journey.

(((((((Dixie))))))))

((((((spouses)))))))))


Me-BS-59
HIM-SAFWH-63
Damn autocorrect is responsible for the silly errors, sorry!

Posts: 2915 | Registered: Sep 2009 | From: In my head
CallMeRed
♀ Member
Member # 36312
Helpless  Posted: 5:56 AM, September 5th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello all of you. I have not caught up yet so I hope you are all okay.

I am struggling a lot at the moment. I feel the fog is lifting around my situation and I am seeing it for what it really is.

I am totally regretting our hysterical bonding that took place on vacation. As soon as we came back to the real world, reality kicked in and I find myself not wanting to be near WH but he can't accept that.

Every now and then I dress up in a nice outfit and try and make him happy. I have moments when I think everything will be okay. I kind of feel happy when I wake up and then everything comes back to me.

He is doing everything right - he's banned himself from porn / cyber /chatting /cams, he's being more helpful with the kids and around the house but is it too little too late?

And then there is the massive elephant in the room. Not the ONS because quite honestly that is nothing - it's the deceit that is killing it for me and he knows that.

The deal breaker for him, which I knew was a thing he liked but now apparently "he cannot survive without" now he knows there are people like trampy skankpants who LIKE it. TMI alert: anal sex.

I was told the other night he wanted to do this at least 20% of the time with toys another 40% of the time.

And I do not want to do it, I hate it.

I can't see any way past this, and I feel bad for my children. I keep thinking I will give it 2 years but how can I allow him to do that to me against my will for 2 years? Can I really put on that act for the sake of the kids?

I feel really sad. He told me ILYBINILWY on DDay. His definition of "in love with" is the people you haven't had sex with. Sadly I am starting to realise the real meaning of that ILYBINILWY phrase. I care for him, but I am not sure if I really love him now. Trust is paramount to me, and without it... well you know how it feels.

Any advice is so very welcome.

ETA: He has changed his mind about seeing a CSAT. He now things it is (and I quote) "a lot of bollocks" and he is not a SA.

[This message edited by CallMeRed at 5:57 AM, September 5th (Wednesday)]


D-Day 19 July 2012
Me - BS - 41
Him - WH - 40
Stepchild: 16 Children: 9, 8, 5
Together 14 years, married 10.5 years.
Status: aiming for R with a Plan B just in case.

Posts: 275 | Registered: Jul 2012 | From: England
hathnofury
♀ Member
Member # 32550
Default  Posted: 8:30 AM, September 5th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Red,

(((Hugs))).

So here is the thing. You can't make him go into treatment, etc. You CAN have a boundary that you do not want to be in a relationship with him if he is not in IC with a CSAT. And then you enforce that boundary with consequences if he does not respect your boundary. You could kick him out, or or make him sleep in another room, file for D, whatever you feel is necessary to make you feel safe. He has obliterated your trust, and he should be willing to do whatever it takes to earn it back. It doesn't matter if he doesn't believe in SA or whatever. What matters is if he is respecting your boundaries and doing the work to fix himself and the M. If he can't or won't, or at least be willing to try, there is no M.

I don't agree he is doing everything right, IMHO. But when I was in your shoes at that stage of the game, I was saying the same thing. I can read it in my old posts. But the truth was he was not. He was trying to to the minimum so that I wouldn't leave, and he wasn't really working on fixing himself or the M at that time, he was going through the motions in the bare minimum requirements. It wasn't until more than six months after Dday that he started to see himself and our situation for what it really was.

As for the TMI, LOL. When SAWH sat down and had our first informal disclosure on our own (which you all know was a big fat lie, he lied greatly about the length and volume of acting out), I told him he had ruined anal sex, and probably sex in hotels, with me forever. In my case, I had seen pix I could not unsee, therefore I had more "grounds" for that in his eyes. But that honestly should not matter in your case. I told him if that was a dealbreaker for him, get out now. It was a result of his actions, it was consequences of his choices, I was not taking any guff about it. And he was so desperate to stay in the M, he was visibly disappointed, but said he would do whatever I wanted. The difference is NOW that he's in active recovery he does it because it is a boundary, and he knows it is necessary for me to feel safe. But to be honest it is not that hard because we don't have sex at all. We fool around, but nothing that puts me at risk for STDs. That is my comfort level until he is further in recovery and my trust in him is greater.

Red, IDK if you have read my Neverending Story in JFO. It's a long read, but there are nuggets of useful info in there. And for me, at the stage you are at now, it was way easier for me to see what I could not see in myself in others in the same boat. Reading here, going to S-Anon, group therapy was extremely helpful because I'd ask why does she do that, can't she see this, etc and then turn it inward and realizing I was doing the same thing.

(((Hugs))). You are in a shitty spot right now and it's not fair. You deserve much better. We all do.


BS 43, SAWH 38. M 15years, together 17. Body count in the triple digits. Both in recovery, trying to R.
Three kids under age 11.

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