I saw a CSAT myself after the latest D-Day, and I couldn't believe the difference. He understood everything immediately. He predicted everything that has happened since then.
I'm now seeing a regular psychologist who won't even accept patients dealing with addictions. She is not interested b/c the recovery rate is so low. She refers them to other specialists.
So in a nutshell, that's my experience with ICs. Can you go and see a CSAT yourself? Or find a better IC for this particular problem?
I'm still sad that we wasted all that time with the regular ICs -
Having said that, this center has a bunch of CSATs and they are not all the same. They all have different approaches to therapy and so forth. Before I got settled with my current CSAT IC, I was in a group therapy with one that was not as great a fit for me personally (which was fine because it was just a 3mo stint). Even so, she was infinitely more helpful than the MC was, for sure. So it's still a personal fit kind of thing.
Hope, thank you for thinking of me. I have not had the strength to post. I have spent weeks pretending SAWH and I could make it work. I am so deluded and sick. Two weekends ago, we were at our lakeside cottage together. He and I both drank too much and after watching him text non-stop to "someone", I told him I was suicidal. He said to me and I quote: "so just do it. I am do not care if you do it. Just shut up."
I ran outside and decided I would drown myself in the lake. I truly considered this. I looked in the window and he continued to text with someone and did not even get off the couch to check on me.
I cried out to my next door neighbor who had a house full of people. She came right over and I told her everything. She saved my life. I will be forever grateful for her love and compassion. She has fed me when I had no food and continues to check on me.
SAWH is no longer paying any of my bills or providing me with any money. I am about to lose everything. I have finally, thank God, reached the point of no return. I will proceed with a divorce. My SAWH is a stranger to me. He is sick and broken -- and he can burn in hell for all I care.
I do not know how to go on, but I will...
Pray for me, my sisters, and I will pray for you. I am spent....
((((HOPE)))) Let's talk soon!
My STBX has also cut me & the children off financially. I am past caring what he does & who he does it with, except how it affects the children. I am not able to move past his abandonment of his financial responsibilities to the children he helped create. I hear you, Hon, I hear you. It's a special kind of low.
M23, I'm so sorry you're here, but I'm glad you found this place. I got a bit confused, you say you're in R, but then it sounded like he's still acting out. In any case, you're among friends here who understand that being the spouse of a SA is a whole different ballgame than a "regular" cheater who had an affair (or two).
I'm sorry therapy isn't in the cards for you financially, that must make it extra difficult. Does your church do any marriage improvement workshops for free/ lo cost, maybe? Obviously it probably wouldn't help with SA or infidelity per se, but maybe with your communication?
I just found out my H is SA too. I'm sorry you're going through this. The ladies on this forum are very kind and will help you how they can with advice and words of wisdom, though.
H is going to his first CSAT appt today. He called me at work last night and I can't even remember what he said, but it set me off and I had a full blown panic attack. I haven't yelled at him much at all since even before D-day.... Definitely yelled last night. Thank goodness for ambien.
I remembered another free resource for anyone who needs IRL support, link below:
C&P'd from their page:
BAN is a non-profit organization made up of local support groups for people who are dealing with the devastating impact of a spouse's affair. It is for women and men (still married or divorced) seeking support in recovering from this experience.
Please note! BAN is a support group ONLY FOR THE BETRAYED SPOUSE ... If a couple is working to restore their marriage after an affair, when the betrayed attends BAN, both spouses benefit.
Please note! BAN is a support group ONLY FOR THE BETRAYED SPOUSE ... If a couple is working to restore their marriage after an affair, when the betrayed attends BAN, both spouses benefit.
I haven't tried BAN, although I'm thinking about it.
MTT, sometimes churches have a list of therapists who will work on a sliding scale. Maybe try calling several churches in your area & asking about this? Also, it's possible your local social services department can offer you discounted or sliding scale therapy. Another group to try is the Salvation Army. Please look around for some resources even if money is tight. IC can help so much.
Ghostie, thank goodness you're here! I've been worried. I'm glad your neighbor has been such a good Samaritan & a support to you. I wish I had more to offer than cyber hugs and prayers..
NEM, lol re: Ambien! I take sleeping meds too.
[This message edited by SabinatheOwl at 9:28 AM, July 11th (Wednesday)]
"Live a life not an apology." Edward R.Murrow
"I can be changed by what happens to me but I refuse to be reduced by it."
It has been a week & a half. I have detached and am just enjoying my life. He has taken that as an opportunity to step back instead of stepping up. He proved that if I don't approach him or start a conversation it won't happen. That makes me sad, but it is what it is.
The funny thing is that we are supposed to go to Retrovaille this weekend. I'm not sure how that is going to be.
I hope you are feeling much better Ghost. I hope you know that your worth is not tied to him. You will get through it!
H had his CSAT appt today, is going to his first SA meeting thingy right tonight, and has CSAT IC again tmrw before he goes out of town for a few weeks. I've been anxious all day to the point where I'm shaking, but have tried to use all the anxious energy I have to work. Mostly it's working but this is so hard. H is still wounded as a BS, and I think he feels like there isn't much healing and fixing he needs to do wrt his WS label. This adds to my anxiety, as well as the fallout of learning about his SA. We will see how our talk tonight goes I guess.
Hugs to you all.
I haven't looked at all the info of SA, and even though I have family members, exboyfriends, been in rehab myself...I am finding it VERY hard to accept this diagnosis. I would walk away if kids weren't involved, but I can't.
I just feel that he is evil & not SA. No huge amount of porn, and the A's were with the SAME OW that spans 14 years now!!!!! One other OW, but that's it (as far as I know). The only thing I've got here is that he did stuff with my kids in close proximity. So I'm not sure how this translates.....
I would like to be selfish for a moment and ask for your help/feedback on something. After this last lie and my recent work on my own codependency I decided to create a boundary agreement. Because he is a SA it has a lot of specifics that people not married to an SA probably wouldn't be able to understand. I am hoping you guys in the same boat as me (or who have been) can offer thoughts and suggestions on what I have so far.
I apologize in advance because it is long. Here it is:
1. I will not continue to put up with lies, distortion of truth, or you not being entirely up front with me – even if you think you’re trying to protect me in some way. I promise not to lie to you and you must promise not to lie (or stretch the truth) to me. Honesty is always better. Know that your lies are worse than almost anything you could ever do.
The consequence for lying will be that I detach to protect myself. You will need to sleep in another room. There will be no hugging, kissing or any other affection until I feel comfortable and safe with you again. Please understand, a lie has the ability to bring me back to ground zero in the trust factor with you; even a small lie. If your lying continues to be an issue, this will be a cause me to leave because it creates too much mental anguish.
2. I will not tolerate secrets in this relationship. I promise I will not keep secrets from you. You must promise not to keep secrets from me as well. If a secret is kept I will detach and it may lead to divorce.
3. Fidelity and honesty are full-bodied commitments, not a la cart like at a buffet where you can pick and choose what you will be honest about. I should not need to make sure I “ask the right questions” to get the truth. If this occurs I will detach using the process set out in #1.
4. If I feel a decline in honesty I will believe my intuition until you earn my trust and prove you are trustworthy. I will believe you when you your actions match your words.
5. I will not put myself in harm’s way emotionally. If I feel uncomfortable in a situation I will detach.
6. I expect you to be involved in a life of recovery, self-examination, honesty, communication and actively engage in all of your “safety nets.” This includes attending and working the 12-step program (SA) weekly, having contact with your sponsor, attending individual counseling with Dr. C weekly or as often as his schedule allows, doing any and all work he asks you to do, and attending marriage counseling with me at least twice per month. I would also like you to actively read and work on your knowledge about SA and how to control your lying. If you do not consistently engage in these steps I will lose my trust in your recovery and I will detach.
7. I will absolutely not tolerate any of your previous behavior with online affairs, sexting, cybering, emailing, chatting, sexual forums, or any other type of inappropriate behavior with another woman. I will file for divorce the moment I find out.
8. I will not tolerate any surfing or viewing of porn on the internet, phone, television or any other device. I understand that this has a potential for relapse so this is the promise I make to you in order to be fair. Because of your addiction, I will not immediately leave if you slip. However, I need you to be honest and tell me within twenty-four hours of looking at porn. Please come to me, don’t make me become hyper vigilant or find out on my own. It’s a horrible, horrible feeling.
I’d also like you to see if you can figure out what triggered you to surf. I need you to provide me with full disclosure. You can expect my support in recovery, not addiction. I ask for honesty or I can’t stay in this marriage.
If you do not tell me that you had a slip, I will consider this the beginning of more lies and it will not be tolerated. I will detach and we will not sleep in the same room. I may also ask for separation for a period of time. ***While I understand that you may slip, if you are unable to keep from surfing for porn consistently, it has the potential to cause me to file for divorce.
9. As per SA guidelines and for my own feeling of comfort, I do not want you to engage in any masturbation – whether it results in “completion” or not. I understand that this has a potential for relapse so I will make the same promise to you in order to be fair. Because of your addiction, I will accept it if you slip and masturbate. However, I need you to be honest and tell me within twenty-four hours of masturbating. Again, please come to me about this.
I’d also like you to see if you can figure out what triggered you to masturbate. I need you to provide me with full disclosure. I can only support you if you are honest with me. If you do not tell me that you had a slip and I somehow discover it, I will consider this the beginning of more lies and it will not be tolerated. I will detach using the same process above.
10. I will not accept you giving your phone number or email address to any woman that does not need it for anything that is not business/school/family related. I will not tolerate creating “secret” email addresses or having a "secret" phone. If you have any phone or email correspondence with a woman, it must remain professional. No smiley faces, no giving out personal information about yourself, no flirting, and you need to notify me within 24 hours of receiving correspondence from any woman. If it becomes a habit that you forget to tell me about receiving or sending phone calls or emails to women, especially if the line is continually blurred between professional and personal, it may lead to separation or divorce.
11. I will absolutely not tolerate you having any type of physical contact with another woman. Any contact, even if you think it’s harmless like a neck rub or hug – is forbidden in our marriage. Hands Off! If I find out about physical contact of any kind with a woman it will lead to in-home separation and possibly divorce.
12. I will not tolerate ANY contact with any woman that you had a sexual relationship with in your past. If I find out about any such contact it will lead to separation and possibly divorce.
13. You need to account for where you are, who you are with and when you will be home. I will do the same for you. If you don’t fulfill this request you will lose my trust in your whereabouts and I will not believe you are in recovery. I will detach.
14. I would like you to account for how you spend your money, and I will do the same. I am not comfortable with you having cash because it feels like a way to hide your activities. Any cash that either of us have will be discussed and should be for a specific purpose where another form of payment is not possible or feasible. If money is missing or lied about or if you have cash that you do not tell me about I will assume that you are reverting to old habits and keeping secrets. I will lose trust and detach.
15. We will have no sexual intimacy without physical and emotional safety.
16. When you tell the truth you will build respect and love. We will move toward a closer relationship and reconciliation.
17. We will learn to empathize and understand each other. We will spend quality time together as a couple building affection, compassion and genuinely putting forth an effort to repair our marriage. This includes regular communication and discussion of our hopes, fears, dreams, and current difficulties.
18. I will not accept drug use of any kind. Drug use will lead to separation and most likely divorce.
19. I would like us both to limit alcoholic beverages to 2 drinks per night. We may discuss this and come to another conclusion together for some occasions. However, I feel that we both are healthier and more in control of our emotions when we do not drink in excess.
20. I do not want you using the computer when you are in an emotional or vulnerable state, such as after a fight. If you do, I will ask that you get off of the computer at that time. If you do not comply I will detach using the process in #1.
21. I am going to focus on myself. This means putting myself first, protecting myself when I feel threatened, hurt or upset and finding my own internal strength. My personal boundary is that I will not betray myself, my needs, or what makes me feel comfortable for anyone else. Ever.
22. I will spend time on myself every day. I will do at least one thing that makes me happy.
23. I will not be a “rescuer.” This means that you need to take care of the responsibilities that are yours. I will let you fall on your face if that’s what happens. I will not be your safety net. If you put off asking for help until the last minute, I will not drop everything to fix your problems or “save the day.” I will not constantly remind you about your responsibilities or things that you need to take care of. Once you have agreed to be responsible for something I release all responsibility and will consider it “yours.”
However, if you want to ask for my assistance or utilize my knowledge about something I would be glad to offer my help as long as it doesn’t interfere with my own schedule or cause me undue stress. I expect you to come to me with specifics on what you need and how I can assist you. If you mention help you would like and I agree, I will not “chase” after you to give that help. If you are feeling overwhelmed with your responsibilities and would like to change something that we have agreed on, I expect you to initiate that discussion.
24. This list may be revised or added to at any time if both parties agree to the changes. If one of us feels strongly about the need for a particular boundary, the other will respect their wishes unless it causes harm or undue stress.
Ok - brutal truth time...
[This message edited by beautifulmess7 at 12:51 PM, July 13th (Friday)]
beautifulmess7-this is so good. I cried hard reading this because WH has crossed every one of those boundaries & I need to save my self & kids now.
On that note, anyone have advice or books on how to protect kids from WH's SA behaviors???
I'm sorry, but I don't really have any advice regarding children. Thankfully we don't have any. I don't mean that in a negative way towards you or your kids (I just realized how that could have sounded to you). I wish I could offer more support in that area, but I don't know where to start. Probably by educating your kids on what is OK and what isn't - from anyone. Maybe say, "Even if I did xyz to you that would be wrong." And then tell them what to do if anything like that happened. Communication is the key, I think...
You didn't cause him to be an SA, you can't control his SA, and you sure as hell can't cure his SA. He is the only one who can do that. And he's not going to magically do that overnight--regardless of how many rules you give him to follow. He's spent almost 5 decades getting here, and he's not going to be cured overnight. Addicts lie. They lie about stupid stuff. That's probably not going to stop overnight--(what I'm saying is don't set yourself up to have that expectation).
Does that mean I don't think that you need to have clear boundaries in place? Absolutely not. I think (and that's just me, remember) that you can figure out what your bottom lines are. Most of your boundaries seem to be about telling the truth. So, you can tell him how important it is for him to be truthful, and how you will respond if he's not. I think by giving him so many specific examples of every possible way he could lie to you is setting him up for failure. For example, #4--if you "feel" a decline in honesty? How is he supposed to keep you from "feeling?"
In your list you keep saying that the consequences are that you will detach, and you do give specific examples of that. Are you working your own program to recover from the effects of his SA on you? If not, I highly recommend that you find one. One of the first tenets of any recovery program is to realize that you can't control this, and that you need to learn to detach with love from the addict's behaviors. The point of recovery to is realize that YOU will be okay regardless of whether or not the addict choose recovery.
I'm not asking that you sit back and just take whatever he chooses to do. You can certainly figure out what your boundaries are, but the simpler they are, the better. Don't threaten what you can't follow thru with. Trust that you will be shown what you need to know, when you need to know it. Lead by example--if you want honesty and respect, treat him with honesty and respect.
The ones about his not having any cash, and not touching another woman in any circumstance--how would you feel if your husband said those things to you? Those would make me like he was treating me as if I were a child.
I'll grant you that nothing he has probably done up until now has made you trust him, and I totally understand the pain of that. But, I've learned thru 7 years of recovery work that you can't force someone else to be sober. You're right that you don't want to enable him. He has to want to recovery for himself. You do him no favor by ignoring his bad behavior, but you also do him no favor by being his parent and spelling out every possible way he can screw up.
In short (at last!)my advice is to give him a short list of bottom line behaviors, and your responses to them. He needs to be responsible for the details.
Keep the focus on yourself so that whatever comes you know you will survive. I promise that if you do the work you can come thru this with yourself intact and healthy. (And it goes without saying, but all of this is JMHO--feel free to take what works for you and leave the rest).
Wishing you peace,
You'll need to lay down the law for your spouse. Tell him that certain behaviors are absolutely forbidden, and if you discover that these boundaries are broken you will ask him to move out of the house immediately & will divorce him. You have to be prepared to back this up with action. If he thinks you're going to waffle, he'll break these safety boundaries & you'll be putting your children at risk.
They are already at risk, anyway, since they're children of an addict. YOU must work on yourself from this day forward so that you do not teach your children how to enable an addict. They need to see a strong, confident mother who won't put up with bullshit from her husband. They must see you not tolerating lies or shifty behavior.
Personally, having lived the nightmare of an active SA in the house, I would never, ever again tolerate it. I think if there are children in the house the SA has to go. Sorry, but that's how I feel. The SA can work on himself & maybe return, I guess, but honestly I've lived this and I'll regret the rest of my life having him in the house with my children. The constant worry on my part, the horrible behavior my kids picked up from him, the grooming he did to the kids... You can't imagine the inner shame I feel about my years of inaction.