I remember those days -- when it seemed like communication could only be indirect, and they sucked.
We're here. Let us know if you need anything.
Once the boat is repaired, I will list it low and get it sold. It will pay the remainder of what I need for DS1ís college, and a big chunk of college for DS2 in a couple of years.
There is no formal separation agreement here in FL. Once we get separated, I am hoping we can file and complete D by summer. We have put more than enough MC/IC time in to have the waiting period waived.
I keep hoping a miracle will occur and it will suddenly be all right, that she will love me. But after 3 years (22 really) I know that is not a realistic hope.
Three years ago, I was numb and gave things 6 months. At 6 months and on I saw hope, always slow, but progress. At 1 year out I felt responsible, that if I left her she would not do the IC and other work she needed to do, and I saw progress. Last April I told her and our MC it was not working for me, that my needs were not being met. She started saying it was all about me and calling me a narcissist. She slowed down going to IC, and MC was not working for us because she could not give me the things I wanted,. She also was not willing to ask for the things she wanted. She never wants to seem needy. She just expects people to just know what she needs or wants, or says she doesnít need anything. She said she loved doing things for me, but she meant taking care of me if I was sick. She never did want to give me the things I wanted. I wanted her, and her love.
Except for my M, life is as good as it has been in a long time. Once we are D, I will focus on paying down our accumulated debts and rebuilding some savings.
[This message edited by atsenaotie at 6:58 AM, October 19th (Friday)]
Sorry to hear about all this. It looks like she is in a very negative mind set. I see this thinking at my house quite often. I used to view this as a boo hoo, woe is me type thing. I now believe this is what they really think. Everything is bad, nothing is good. Of course you do understand her calling you a narcissist is a deflection argument. Change the subject, put you on the defense. The BPD has had years of self training in these matters. It is how they make it through life. It is a sad thing.
Hang in there. You may be starting over concerning some things but you will do o.k.
I used to view this as a boo hoo, woe is me type thing. I now believe this is what they really think.
Yes, even when FWW appears to be having fun or doing well, her mind is racing with what do people thing, how should she act, what may go wrong next week. I have seen this, and even her DD2 has asked her if she ever just relaxes. FWW said she never does.
I understand she has a huge emotional deficit, and I was willing to work with her when it appeared she was working on being better. The last 6 months I really think she gave up, and if she is not willing to work at us being better, why should I settle?
I do agree that if you do not want to settle you should not. The BPD boards I read has a full section on leaving the BPD. It is hard to do, but most seem happy when it is a done deal.
...to relax is to let down the defense against being harmed by someone...
And this is why she is so unable to meet my needs. Sex? She is worried how she smells, what if I want to do something she does not, what if a child comes home/in, am I enjoying myself, what if she does not cum soon enough, too soon, does she have all her work ready for the next day...
Other things I enjoy, relaxcing on a beach, snuggling on the couch for a movie, relaxing touch/Tantra, she is unable to let go and enjoy. Even when we did yoga she would start packing up during the final Shavasana relazation phase (my favorite part).
Add to that that she feels a loss of identity if we become too close emotionally, she feels uncomfortable around me feeling that I am constantly judging her.
I really hoped the IC would teach to come out of the cocoon, but once they started to really work on that I think it became too uncomfortable, so she slowed down going.
Abuse and neglect in childhood, particularly in early childhood, if severe enough can actually change the way the brain forms.
Just accept that she's bascially crippled in someway. I think it will be helpful. As old as your children now are, you will be able to have an extremely limited relationship with her if you choose.
They say that the BPD part of this is almost impossible to treat. The paranoid part is a big factor in that. If you do not trust the IC how can any progress be made? If you are thinking about everything else but what the IC is saying how can he/she help. If my W was in IC she would probably start making out her things to do list while the C is talking. She really does do that to me sometimes. I keep the pen and note paper out of the bedroom. How bad would it be to have her start writing the market list during sex?
ETA. Well we scared everyone away but m3. She is to tough to scare off. BTW. Her post is correct.
[This message edited by old dipstick at 12:21 PM, October 19th (Friday)]
ETA - Another LTA'er here
[This message edited by forgivenotforget at 12:31 PM, October 19th (Friday)]
...to have her start writing the market list during sex?
As we began to work through issues after dday, and sex was a topic we discussed, FWW said that she would think about what she needed at the store the next day while we were having sex. Sex really meant nothing more to her than a physical release to get off.
She has said only half jokingly that the IC does not like her. Recently I wanted to go in for IC, called and got a Friday morning appointment. FWW tried for a Friday morning the following week and it was not available. She said that was because the IC likes me and not her. She was not joking that time, and has repeated that since. She talks about how he makes it hard to schedule just to upset her.
Knowing that she cannot help it gives me twinges of guilt for leaving, but I have come to where I think she will be happier not having to deal with me (rationalizing?) I also belive that if we continue as we have been for the last 6 months my resentment will build and I will shift from detached to really disliking her.
I think youíre right that your FWW has hit a plateau. The question is whether she is capable of working until she gets beyond it. Given her emotional issues and background, I would put money on ďno.Ē For those of us looking at her from outside, that seems very sad; however, *she* obviously finds some safety and happiness in keeping herself distant from any close male-female relationship. I donít understand it but being a partner in a close, loving marriage is not what she wants. PLEASE do not feel guilty for not giving her what she doesnít want.
I havenít been here as often as I used to because Iím happy and busy in my life without Daffy. I am no longer concerned with what he does or doesnít do. I think kindly about him and hope that he finds a way to become healthy, but I know there is a very good chance that he will never heal from his emotionally abusive childhood. His parents did a really good job of f@<#ing him up. He is miserableóor at least he acts miserable, perhaps because thatís what he thinks I expect of him, hard for me to say from this distanceóbut he was miserable with me, too. Heís just a negative person. He doesnít seem capable of being grateful, of looking for the good, of thinking positively about anything. Being away from his dysfunction is a relief and the work I did while I was with him has left me in a really good place. I am relaxed and secure for the first time in a really long time. I am okay being alone, but I am not alone. I am learning how to have a healthy relationship with someone who has principles, priorities and emotional maturity. Itís pretty incredible. Itís so sad that I couldnít have that with Daffy, but I canít do anything about it. I tried. I tried and tried until I had to finally admit that there was nothing I could do to have a healthy relationship with him. And once I gave up, there was nothing left. Iím not sorry I spent two years working on the marriage and working on myself before I finally gave up, though. I finally came to accept what is (and what isnít).
Sometimes there just isnít anything you can do. It sucks. Iím so sorry.
Your W thinking the IC does not like her as well as you and that he is wanting to upset her sounds just like the way my W would react to a situation like that. It is as if everyone she deals with takes extra time in their busy life to see how they can mess with my W. I try to ignore this shit but sometimes I just have to ask why all these people are out to upset her. I never get a good answer.
I understand the guilt feelings. When ever I thought about leaving my W I almost felt like in some ways I would be ditching a child or puppy. I will say that if you keep on this course, the resentment will probably turn to dislike.
The newbie Nell makes a good case for detaching and leaving your present situation behind. She was with someone who was miserable and was making her miserable. She saw that she was not the answer to her H's problems and knew it was time to go.
Everyone feels sorry for you W and what put her in this position. She had no choice concerning these terrible events. We as BSs did not have a choice when we got put on our crappy ride to hell either. As Nell said, it sucks but you do have to look out for yourself.
I am getting ready to toss a big ham steak on the grill and drink a few beers. I will be thinking of you and all our friends here at SI.
nell....i am so proud of you, you are standing tall and strong as i always knew you would
m3...a few pages back i read the good news about baby paddy and congrats on your pregnancy....please give yourself a break though after this baby,....kkkkk
(waving) to all the members of this wonderful tribe....and of course many many ((((hugs)))
(((whytellmenow)))...welcome to this little corner of si and so sorry that you find yourself at si....your world as you knew it is no more, but from the sounds of your post you have alot going for you.....you sound strong...
as for wanting to know all the details...there are 2 kinds of bs's, those who want to know, or rather "need" to know and those that don't,....and its totally normal no matter which way ....and the more he tells you the better off your reconcilliation will be, not because of you learning the details but because of his being able to "come clean" and give you all you need to to deal, heal and then eventually move forward...
i do hope that he is completely honest with you, this is a golden opportunity for him to begin to rebuild what he has torn down..sadly most ws's are not and it hurts reconcilliation and sometimes it does more then just hurt reconcilliation, but destroy it and as odd as it sounds and as unfair and warped as it is, he will only be honest if he feels "safe" enough or "scared" enough...ironic isn't it...
anyways there are lots of good peeps here at the lta house, i am an oldie and only pop in now once in a while, others will pop in, it usually gets a bit slower in here on the weekend....in the meantime, take care of you!
Speaking of which, dip's mention of ham makes me really feel like making bacon. It's past 5 am -- that's officially morning in my book...
whytell me now -- in your case I might consider marriage counseling. I actually don't think it would take all that long, weirdly enough. One person, a few times over a 6 year period, and it's been over for a decade? Cheating sucks, don't get me wrong, but he's not SA, he stopped on his own, and for a long time.
Of course, that story could also be untrue. Hard to say. It kind of sounds like the story I first got from my WH, which was by no means anywhere NEAR the truth.