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User Topic: Long Term Affair - Part 29
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 1:55 AM, June 16th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKgal: I hope you can enjoy the vacation/holiday away. It seems that you are starting to think about what you will do with the rest of your life in terms of selling or staying in your house. Such a hard decision. My therapist often tells me not to make decisions just on my my emotions and to decide on my rational mind...not just emotions or intellectually.

Laura: you are in my thoughts and prayers. You have been there for so many of us. We are here for you.

M3: hang in there. we all want to shake you WH and say "WTF is wrong with you!!!"

{{{{{Jollum}}}
{{Nofun}}} Think about what is best for YOU. Not WH or your kids.

{{{{Deep}}}
Tryin: you are so good with all your advice. Thank you for you.

Dip: good to hear from you. I hope you are hanging in there.

Nell: You are sounding strong. You are often in my thoughts.

{{{{WYE}}}}

{{{{Jollum}}}
{{{Dad}}}}
{{{Tradit}}}

Ats: I really feel for you. You have been trying hard for so very long. You have done everything you could possible do. It also seems from all your posts these few years, that your FWW has been trying what she could possibly do to fix herself to the best of her ability.
That said.....

My crazy neighbor that I have often spoke about ended up breaking up with her Bf because she realized that although she loved him and he did love her, it wasn't enough. He couldn't give her what she needed. She didn't blame him, it wasn't that he didn't love her enough (this is totally not related to infidelity), but he couldn't meet her needs. He wasn't right for her.

Ats, at this point, this is what you have to look at. Mrs. Ats has tried to fix her problems. We all know she has tried. You do too. BUT, you have to look at what the relationship is now.
At this point, you may have forgiven her because of her FOO, etc. But is this the relationship you want? I know you love her, and I feel she loves you to the best of her ability. Is it enough?
It may be a good idea to see a therapist or a counsellor to talk this through a bit. I believe that at this point your relationship with Mrs Ats is beyond the infidelity. We are here to listen, but try to focus on what YOU want right now. If you are unhappy, so will Mrs Ats.

As for me, just send me some prayers and mojo. I need to detach as much as possible. I was trying to stay for the finances.
I have been totally devastated for these past few years. There was too much to deal with and then a lot of FOO that I thought I had dealt with came rising to the surface too.

A lot of dealing with Mom and her BPD and possibly NPD and hoarding issues (which I'm finally realizing...but that is another story...)
Mom is in a nursing home, but was sick in the hospital with pneumonia. She's ok now.
Still more TT comes my way. DS 13 just was telling me that when NPD is here, all he does is call the OC's and OW and tries to get him to talk to the OC's ALL THE TIME if I'm not there or in the room. DS 13 tells me how awkward he feels about this. He said that the OC's tell him they miss him and he says how can they miss him if he doesn't even know them? (they always knew about us from day 1) I tried to tell DS that the OC's have nothing to do with the sitch and not to blame them and they are his sisters and brother....BUT

It kills me.

I have just been surviving for so many years and not living. I have been so beaten down. The last time NPD was here, it was "almost normal". I was in the kitchen and he was talking to me about something and all I was thinking was that this was all I ever wanted. Someone to share my life with. Someone to talk to and share every day things with. I didn't want so much and I could never have even that. Not even a normal relationship with my parents, my exH or this NPD and of course all I can think of is that there is something wrong with ME.

Sorry, pity party.

All I ever wanted was to be loved and some feeling of family of security. Didn't get that from my parents or alcoholic exWH whom my older sons are planning a big day for him for Father's Day.

Sorry about the rant. Fathers' Day, antianniversaries, wedding anniversaries....etc etc


Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 9:40 AM, June 16th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Honest-
So sorry for all your pain.
Antiversaries and Father's day celebrations do bring on lots of triggers.
And all of the stress and anxiety involved with taking care of your mom-that is a lot go go through all by yourself.

When you talk about the OC talking to your sons....well...mayb I'm just a jaded New Yorker- but I don't buy it.
I suspect that the OW sees your STBXWH NPD as her meal ticket. All over the world...people in impoverished areas assume...that all Americans are rich etc.
She is training those kids to do what they can to butter everyone up to please NPD. He's paying all her bills, providing a house and material things for her and the kids, probably sending them to a better private school etc. etc.
Why would she NOT try to do everything she can to appease him? Plus..in that culture-men rule.
It still amazes me that in some countries -like Saudi Arabia women get arrested for driving a car! because the thinking is that it gives women too much freedom! and of course...the harassment from the police if they are not appropriately covered etc.

so trust me... a woman from that culture that has an American sugar daddy-I would expect her to try to kiss up to his family

But... I'm worried about you.
Have you been seeing a IC?
Would you consider going to a support group?
You need to put yourself and your health first...
your sons need you.


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 2:26 PM, June 16th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Lots of wonderful posts and insights the past two weeks. I "listen" daily (read to me feature on the iphone) on the way home from work. This keeps me up to date and I learn so much that is helpful to my own situation.
Yet, I need to check in and post more regularly
Posting helps me coalesce my own spinning emotions and thoughts which is very helpful and I have an obligation to give as well as take from this incredible thread.
And I offer my apologies beforehand for some of the “rants” that follow as this weekend is not only Father’s Day (and a happy Father’s Day to all the fine men on the LTA thread) but also the one year anniversary (DDay2) when my WW was cornered and she told me about her two year LTA that she ended the day before. So here goes

I suppose some people never get it

m3.. I hope this is not the case and your WH has an epiphany very soon.. I have had my own in other areas of life and it can be refreshing. One of them was the day I realized that my GF was indeed my best friend, a wonderful and admirable person, and the woman I wanted to be with the rest of my life. That evening (20+ years ago) I literally blurted out the “will you be my wife” and we were married less than six months later.

He had the perfect arrangement. The only way I would have found out was through the itemized phone billing

Hey UKGirl.. the only way I found out was to discover condoms in WW dresser drawer And the only way I found out the truth.. dum de dum dum .. was through the itemized phone bill. Technology works both ways. & Life can mock the theatre!

heart surgery for my Mom Wednesday, another round of job interviews

ats... how is your mom doing? how did the interviews go? Please keep us up to date on both and sending thoughts of good fortune your way.

Is this a mirror type thing? Sometimes people mirror those close to them

Dip.. astute observation. But why do they mirror the down state and not the up state? Are they too weak to have their own emotional state? BTW.. my WW definitely mirrored her AP. He is a sexual deviant, self centered, uses others, and blames others for his own problem sigh.

I know you're all so jealous -- 42-38-40, baby!.

m3.. jealous - no, just impressed!

I too do everything

NoFun.. that is what my WW tells me- that she does everything (and I do not do enough to help her). WW is right, she had an A and I did not At least her A did not destroy my sense of humour which can be very dry.

And yes, WW does a lot for our family, she just fails to recognize that I do as well. WW also does not "get it" that time she spends on herself reduces the time spent on the family (she does leisure activities on her day off and complains that she is busy preparing dinner and then paperwork in the evenings. I arrive home from work just in time, sometimes, for dinner, sometimes, and do the dishes while she does the paperwork). I do not do enough because I may relax for 30-45 min while she finishes up. I just need to do more and quit being a lazy bum.

sex is now back to once a month or so . Hard to feel attractive and loved when your T-spiked W doesn’t feel aroused and sex when it does occur is only after drinking and late at night Never sober, planned for, special, or flirting texts/photos like she did with OM[

ats.. some very good replies by others. This just hit home too deep for me not to respond as well. Once a month or so is the norm in h&c land these days. Yes, late at night before going to sleep when I am told how tired she is before heading up to bed and when we get there (after a few stops along the way by WW to take care of this take care of that). With her AP, it was planned and during hours when she was fully engaged (awake and pun intended). Other tasks were put off for time with her AP. It all comes down to behaviors. WS has to choose to make you feel special. My WW does not make those choices nor follow up with actions. I am sorry for you as you deserve much better.[

{{{UKgirl}}} Can't believe the gall of your H in using your anniversary as his PIN while cheating on you! Sometimes I don't know which is worse... knowing details as you do or being in the dark, as I am about most of the A.

lostsoul.. for me it is definitely better to know the details. I can deal with reality; it is knowing what is real and what is not real that is difficult for me. If my WW says she loves me, is it real? She told OM she loved him and now says it was just how they ended their conversations. Blah, blah, blah.
ukgirl.. that stinks that your WH popped in your wedding anniversary every time he called his AP. Though, I doubt it was significant to him. I had asked my WW whehter she wore her wedding ring when she had sex with OM. Yes. I am not sure whether I would have preferred her to be conscious of our M and taken it off or not. I would appreciate all comments on the topic.

I'm so tired.

WYE.. I am so sorry. I can relate to both the mental and physical exhaustion that my WW A has taken on me. Enjoy your children, they grow up fast and can be a great source of happiness. I had dinner alone with my oldest DD last night and it was wonderful to share laughter, common interests and see the glow of happiness in her face. She is truly transitioning from adolescence into a wonderful, fun, caring, and loving adult.

Tonight ended with more of her stating that no matter what she does I will never be happy

ats... I too hear this often. My WW is stuck. She never tried. She was able to make her AP feel like a KING and he treated her like a good whore. WW did do the things that pleased other man and if she had done those same things for me our M would have been one of the best for both of us. She showed him interest, she did special things for him, she did not neglect him during the busiest times of her life, and of course she pleased him sexually. Her choices, her behaviors. Sigh.

But it is not just sex. A hug, saying she loves me, sitting with me would be great.

Yes. Show us we are loved and make the effort (action) to show it. I think my WW has put herself into a trap with the A and she does not know how to escape. It is hard for her to genuinely acknowledge her own faults and choosing to have the A, so.- she "justifies" the A saying it comforted her because the kids and I were UNHAPPY- she "justifies" the A by our differences- she dwells on things that have gone wrong and resents me for them. such as buying a house that required repairs (major ones after we bought it) - she is defensive at my comments both straight and joking These are things she must fix for herself to be happy either with me as her H or without me.

I can't tell you what to do -- but if your main reason not to D is because you think you won't find someone else -- that's what you need to think about / work on

m3.. my main reason for not filing for D today is that I still love my W (though I do not think she likes herself anymore) and would really like to have a mutually satisfying M where we both show appreciation, affection, support for each other and experience the joys of life now including a healthy sexual relationship. This is my desire, my hope for the future as it does not exist now. False hope? Realistic chance? I do not know as my crystal ball broke a long time ago.
I am restarting IC and WW has agreed to restart MC (though we never really did MC) and if there is no progress or prospects for same we will D.

tryin.. such a long post addressing ats with great insights and I have some comments relative to my own situation.

Tonight ended with more of her stating that no matter what she does I will never be happy.
She is not correct in saying this.. it’s a “poor me” statement.. But she may be making a good point I can say. Nobody but YOU can control your own mind brain. Only YOU can make yourself happy. Yes, it is a “poor me” attitude.

What my W is saying is that I will not be happy in our M with no change in her behavior towards me and she is correct. That does not mean that I an not content and happy in other areas of my life. As you said, it is up to how I choose to live and what I will accept. I will no longer accept the lack of respect, affection, support, and sexuality she has not given over the last three years.

And if she makes the choice not to fill your needs, she is breaking your vows and you bring on the consequences with courage.

Unfortunately, this is where our M is today. And the consequences for not changing her behaviors is D.

They showed information that some woman have made house husband out of there men because these men were.. nice. This nice man did everything for that woman. He ended up jumping at ever request so he could get sex.

Have I been nice, thoughtful, and “jumped” to do things for my W during our M. Absolutely! Did I do it because I wanted sex from her? NO! I did it because I loved her and wanted to bring her happiness.

A woman like this will then finds a more masculine man for sex.. even at the expense of adultery. She is also the woman who cannot explain why she cheated. It is because she lost respect for this man. A woman must have respect for that man to qualify him for sex.

Wow! This is certainly an indictment of women and does fit a certain stereotype. If I am attentive to my W needs and desires, then I am not masculine enough and she will seek another man for sex. And if the source of happiness is doing things for others then I will be happy for treating her well and her response will be to go screw someone else. And this means my W is one of those flawed people so I need to D with courage. Tryin.. am I missing the message? I have a cousin that is on her fourth (failed) marriage (currently S). All four of her husbands have been great men. Attentive to her; masculine men. I recall a comment she made about her second ex H. “He is mowing the yard of his GF. What an ass he is just trying to get laid” Actually, I saw this same man do many things over the years for others including my grandparents. He did not do them to get laid by my cousin or anyone else. He did them because he was helping others. And she belittled his efforts as opposed to appreciating them.

I have come to know that several things may be happening. Your wife may have disqualified herself from having sex with you. Feeling like shame and guilt. YOU need to figure out what will qualify you again.

Shame, Guilt. Arrgh. Yes, there is shame and guilt (if you have any conscience at all) betraying someone you professed to me and before G_D, family, and friends to love, honor and cherish. And if that disqualifies me from being the object of her affection, well…

In my case ats, I stopped romancing my W…

In my case, I never stopped romancing my W pre A and to a lesser extent during her A.

And you know what? some woman, no matter what you do, how much you fill there needs, they will mess up there lives. Some woman don’t WANT to give you sex, willing, wantonly, to meet your needs on purpose. Many woman fail to understand the sex aspects that bring more happiness, meets that deep physiological need of every man. They are unable to communicate to you what they need so you will qualify for them to give you sex. They just won’t want to fill your needs and are hurt is such a way they cannot be happy. A man of value realizes this woman will never live up to meeting the vow and this man will find a new partner.We as men need to fully be aware of this…. when a woman has sex with a man, That woman just told us, I totally approve of you. A whiny man may get sex for his own validation of love, but something always seems to be missing. A woman can give sex to a man and not get anything from it not even realizing what they just told that man. We think so different. Some men cannot see the lie… That was me once. NEVER AGAIN. A man of values never accepts this kind of sex. A man of value never accept obligatory sex.

I have NEVER been fiven, taken or will ask for OBLIGATORY sex. I do not agree with women do not know the message they send. When my WW left me and our children at her parents for a family celebration and she went to screw her AP, I believe that she and he knew the message: Being with OM was more important than being with me or prarticipating in the family celebration. Screwing and pleasing him was more important and desireable to her than doing the same for me. What an ego boost to the OM and I cannot believe that WW did not understand the message sent.


Dday came & went...forgot about it actually as I was busy with work & the kids & then I had a dream about her being pregnant...wtf...any over that pretty quick ..its only a dream

DEEPPURPLE…. Glad dday went (almost) unnoticed. Just a dream?? Must bhe a Dallas TV series redux

He got mad and said, "you better not get caught."

NoFun.. projection hurts! I hope your WH feels the pain.

Mojo Needed..... Tonight marks the 7th anniversary of the day my FWW threw our marriage of 24 years(at the time) away. She put down the first time the official screwed him in her timeline.
It's been 3 years since DDay, which is in 2 weeks, and I've been doing fairly well but today it is just eating the hell out of me. Why, did she have to go and do this? Why couldn't she just leave? She is doing the right things now but we are at best "good friends". I just don't have that excitement to be with her or that joy that comes from doing little things for her anymore. I am just really having a miserable day and I'm sorry to come here and let it out but this is the only place where people really and truly know what I mean.

jollum.. hang in there! Why do they do it? There will always be "reasons" but the why will always be a mystery, IMO. Why did they just not leave (D)? Same answer as prior question. My WW says she should have just left (D) because she was unhappy instead of embarking on her A. So, why did my WW just not file for D right after Dday? Now (a year later)? Again there are "reasons" but still a mystery. Just good friends. Ironically, that is how my W and I relationship started. Good friends. I cannot say, though she might, that we are good friends today. I do not brefriend those who betray others for any "reason" and who are not able to be honest with themselves (or seek that through the difficult task of reflection). Doing the little things for my W - sometimes I can still enjoy giving her a foot rub or some other special favor. But these are done far less ofthen and it is due to the lack of joy I feel twoards my W.

Things here have gone from bad to worse. He's threatening to call a lawyer every time we fight anymore, he doesn't want to do this anymore. Seems this mess he created is "too hard". Our anniversary is next week, and we are a few weeks from the first anniversary. I'm struggling pretty bad.

WYE.. I am so sorry Our wedding anniversary come much sooner after Dday (five months) and I gave my WW the most blank card I could find and I added a short note acknowledging the god she has brought to our M / life. This was very hard for me to find something / anything at the time but I did it and am glad I was able to do so. Other than the card, we did not celebrate our anniversary as there was nothing I cared to celebrate.
A friend of ours in her second marriage once remarked on her 20 years of wedding bliss. “but wait, you have only been married for 13 years”, “yes, but even some (7 of 12) to the years in my first M were happy ones”

I am at my one year anniversary of Dday this weekend and I am doing better than ok. My WW chose to go out of town and visit a friend this weekend knowing it is the one year from Dday and Fathers Day. Her choice and I am enjoying the time without her.

If she were to “threaten” me with D, I am content to say go ahead and I would neither be angry nor devastated. I have already discussed with her how I would approach a D: I would not only treat her fairly but I would also treat myself fairly (no more sacrifices for her) and would try to reach that end through mediation and not a battle of lawyers. I do realize my situation is vastly different than yours. My oldest DD leaves for college in the fall and my other DD and DS will be in high school. My profession will allow me to support my WW / children in our home / lifestyle through HS, pay for our children’s college education, and enjoy a comfortable lifestyle for myself.
I am sending the best vibes I can to help you get through this difficult time.
{{WYE}}

Traditoperanni.. I am so sorry and my thoughts are with you. A 35+ y LTA is more than I can comprehend, much less offer any useful advice. Hang in there.

I did some cleaning and laundry last night, no thankyou from FWW just told me I did not need to feel obligated to help.

ats.. Yep, distant, no appreciation and in my case there would also be resentment that I did not do enough. And why were you out "enjoying" yourself (business trip) and not helping me (your W) take care of things so I could visit with my sister. Telepathic communication of course!

I have been looking up and reading about attachment disorders.

This sounds interesting and I would aprreciate any references to items you have found useful and helpful.

After last weekend when she went with me to visit my Mom in the hospital, we have not spenat any time together, and obviously will not for the week I am gone. When I get back it will be up to me if I want to reconnect the relationship. FWW I think is OK "being married" living in the same house, raising our kids, spliting expenses, but has said she would be OK never having sex again. She would just keep dogs.

ats.. I do not know your W and I DO NOT BELIEV HER. I heard the same thing from my own W monts ago: I am content to be your W and not have sex. Really, her A was 99% sexual and she has described that time "as feeling the most alive" at any poinnt in her life. And she is willing to give that up? And having once experienced that great feeling, she is willing to settle for less? If these two items are true, then it is very very sad that anyone would settle and not pursue their own happiness with the greatest and sustained effort.

Lately, my WW has told me that should we D, she may still be unhappy. Just another version of the above.


One year out and doing ok. A really long post, WHEW!, sharing the emotions stirred by the insights of the other members of this exclussive group of fine men and women who did not choose their qulifications for mebership. sigh.

I plan to post a much shorter post later this weekend onthe status in h&c land along with my own isights inot recovering from a LTA.

HAPPY FATERS DAY to all the great dads.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:31 PM, June 16th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

In h&c land,
I restarted IC this week with these objectives.
- To become more even tempered at work (primarily) and outside of work as well. My goal is to still deal with disasters when they occur in the same effective manner as I do now without the internal (and sometimes external) emotional explosion
- To help me identify any gaps that should be addressed for living my life fully should my W and I D A few years ago, I lost my central vision in both eyes and not longer drive due to safety concerns (nor would the DPS renew my license if I applied)
I love my W. Her appearance, her intelligence, her can do attitude. I treat her well by providing for her financially, supporting her emotionally, praising her accomplishments, giving her compliments, giving affection, and showing her she is sexually attractive.
Yet, my love for my W and actions to show it are not enough to sustain our M. I have been clear and direct with my W as to what I need from her.
- Respect
- Appreciation
- Interest
- Affirmation
Respect for who I am as a person, husband, and father. Appreciation for the things I do for W, DD/DD/DS, and others whether it is done upon request or just done because I chose to do it. Interest in my joys, pains, and struggles. And affirmation of your love via physical affection and sexuality.
Affection needs to be continuous as it can be as simple as the touch of a hand, a peck on the neck, a smile, etc. and it is so important. Sexuality, to me, this is an affirmation of love. It sends a deep and clear message that I am loved. It is also one of the most pleasurable acts in life since life began. It is the one act shared between a H and W that is not shared with any other including parents, children, or friends (except for those of us that have joined SI, sigh).

One year out. My WW A no longer brings me the intense pain that it did for so many months. I do grieve for the three years of my life lost to her A and the sorrow it has wrought. And even this is passing rapidly though I expect the loss to last forever. The remaining pain I feel is not as intense, though it is constant, is due to the state of our M. The affirmation I need is not there and though my W disagrees the respect, appreciation, and interest are also lacking.
I no longer control my emotions well. My mood can swing in a second due to an unpleasant surprise. Another consequence of the A.
My health??? The A years and post A year have taken a toll in many ways. The physical and emotional manifestations of the associated stress. I told my IC that there have been times during the past few months where I felt that I was dying, a steep and rapid decline towards my death. She asked if it was physical or mental and I cannot really tell. There are physical symptoms and it may just be the mental clinging to them too closely. TMI, my two brothers died at age 49 and 54. There is a confirmed genetic component linking the early deaths of my brothers and myself.
So, it will take a great and concentrated effort to face all of the challenges before me and I am up for the challenge. I will not only survive, I will thrive. Several large challenges have been thrown at me during my life and my W A is the greatest yet. I have yet to be beaten and I will wing this one as well. Happiness is within my reach and it is only up to me to obtain it.
Best wishes to all those on the LTA thread. May each of you grasp the happiness you deserve and forever keep it in your grasp.
h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 1:57 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

Saw this post on the Wayward side responding to the question "what would you consider to be the perfect spouse?"
http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=460255


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I married her. And now all I want to do is be remarried to her again in front of the church. She is LOVING, COMPASSIONATE, FORGIVING, STRONG, HONEST, SPIRITUAL, FUNNY, INTELLIGENT,SEXY, She is who I want to be like. She makes me a better person for real. It's what drew me to her and I lforgot. I never will again.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Never forget what I have done to BS but don't let guilt make me quit. STAY IN THE FIGHT ! ! !
WS 47 me
BS 47 her
5 Great Children
DD 1/15/11

Of course, we would all want our own WS to post a note like this.

But what struck me is that it reminded me how I felt about my W when we met, married and started our life together. I saw her as STRONG, FUN, BEAUTIFUL, INTELLIGENT, SEXY and she made me a better person and I was honored she became my wife.

I want to find that woman again in my W. She is there, I just need to find her again.

Tryin... thanks for all the advice. I realized tonight that I have not been truly living and enjoying life to the fullest. I became complacent in the routine of marriage, family, work. No more!

My oldest DD goest to Sith college in Massachusets this fall and my W and I were discussing who should go with her: W, I or both. We talked about work (hers, mine); our other children in HS, parent's weekend in the fall; shipping DD stuff, blah, blah blah. That is how I have been living my life.

I AM GOING and I WILL TAKE MY W. We will drop our DD off (orientation is on a Wed) and then my W and I will go and spend the weekend in NYC. Broadway, greenwich village, shopping and hanging out.

The only other time we were in NYC together was the summer when she had just started her A. We had a nasty fight. (long story and I will pass on telling it). She attributes the fight to ongoing problems in our relationship and I attribute the fight to her foucs (unknow to me then) on her AP. Know what, today it does not matter why we fought. It is in the past and I am letting go so that I can enjoy the present.
h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 2:15 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

"Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway."

I saw this tag line by a WS in the R section. It reminded me of my W a year ago.

I discovered her infidelity in April and she made up a story about her A to avoid telling me the truth. In June I was still trying to make sense of it all and put the pieces together and I went to look at the phone logs to verify what she told me. Password was different and I asked for it. She knew it was over and I would learn her story was not true.

She ended the A with an eamil that week. And on Friday evening after a long week I was going up to sleep. She asked if I was too tired to talk and I said no.

She held me tight. Really, really tight. No room to expand the chest to breathe. And she said "I have been lying to you" She then began to tell me the truth of her A, gave me all of her passwords for transparency, and answered every question I asked. We took a long walk and stayed up most of the night talking. I never did fall asleep.

Yes, she had betrayed me and she did owe me the truth. Still, it took a lot of COURAGE to face me and tell me the truth. I have never told her that I cannot imagine the courage that required and I admire her for that. I will tell her when she returns home tommorrow.

Karma is strange. I did not sleep, literally, for two nights a year ago and it looks like I am repeating that this year only with a vastly different attitude.
h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
Allgoodnamesgone
♀ Member
Member # 26157
Default  Posted: 6:35 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Father's Day to all the GREAT dads here on LTA & to those of you who may not be Dads but are otherwise GREAT role models for the kids.

Enjoy the day!


Me- BS
DDay- 8/26/09
Separated after failed R effort.

Posts: 2165 | Registered: Nov 2009
njgal480
♀ Member
Member # 24938
Default  Posted: 6:44 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Father's Day to all of our LTA dads!
I know that your children's best interest has always been a big part of the decisions you have made since d-day.
You are great dads.

[This message edited by njgal480 at 5:15 PM, June 17th (Sunday)]


Me- BS
Him- WH
Long term marriage
D-day- Jan. 2007
5 yr. LTA
Reconciled.


Posts: 3139 | Registered: Jul 2009 | From: NJ
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 7:05 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yes.

Happy Father's Day to all of our LTA men.

Love you all

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
lostsuol
♀ Member
Member # 13706
Default  Posted: 10:34 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NJg said it first but it bears repeating:

Happy Father's Day to all of our LTA dads! We know your children's best interest has always been a big part of the decisions you have made since d-day. You are great dads.


Posts: 808 | Registered: Feb 2007 | From: Canada
honesttoafault
♀ Member
Member # 27105
Default  Posted: 11:36 AM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Happy Father's Day to all our LTA Dads. You guys are the greatest!

Posts: 1903 | Registered: Jan 2010
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, June 17th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Trying to catch up, but just chiming in a bit late before I crash...

Happy Fathers Day to all the great LTA Dads. You are fabulous!


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
trynhard
♂ Member
Member # 22698
Default  Posted: 7:45 AM, June 18th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank for all the Father's Day good wishes...

she made up a story about her A to avoid telling me the truth

People have a need to feel loved. When things go bad, they avoid pain and many block all the good. It's hard to admit failure and pick yourself back up and see all the good and go for it.


A woman like this will then finds a more masculine man for sex.. even at the expense of adultery. She is also the woman who cannot explain why she cheated. It is because she lost respect for this man. A woman must have respect for that man to qualify him for sex.

Wow! This is certainly an indictment of women and does fit a certain stereotype. If I am attentive to my W needs and desires, then I am not masculine enough and she will seek another man for sex. And if the source of happiness is doing things for others then I will be happy for treating her well and her response will be to go screw someone else. And this means my W is one of those flawed people so I need to D with courage. Tryin.. am I missing the message?

I think a woman needs a man, not some "pussy". Some men get caught up in the "Sex is love" and end up doing "things" just to get the sex. They clean the house, cook dinner, etc and then think by doing this a woman will be happy and want to have sex. The woman comes home and this man wants, and is expecting sex in exchange for being a good boy. When this man makes his move, NOPE. After years of this kind of behavior, a woman just loses respect. Doing this one need is just one small part of meeting all the needs and being attractive. If you cannot figure out what needs you missed in your marriage, then you set yourself up for more failed relationships. That may not be who you are H&C.


H&C, I take the position that I never met all my W’s needs. In fact, I believe that if someone cheats it is because they were not happy in some way about their life. They make a choice thinking this will make them happy but there are no winners in infidelity. It fixes nothing and ultimately brings misery in every marriage. People who commit adultery have all kinds of reasons and it could be one of many. Then you also have a small amount of people who are just bad people. No amount of meeting needs will satisfied this person.

Me taking this postion does not mean it was my fault. It means my spouse could not effectivly communicate what she needed nor was I taught as a child to know what she needed. Who takes a class about what a man or woman needs for a sucessful marriage? I know the Pre-Cana class I took did nothing for me. I was in this daze, the romantic phase, too young.. etc.. Both of our families were very different and our families taught me things, and hers taught her things.

I am sure today I know what I was not doing to meet the needs my wife wanted. She can't list them. I had to discover what they were on my own. Theropy, faith, reading, IC, searching and my changing who I am.

[This message edited by trynhard at 7:54 AM, June 18th (Monday)]


Posts: 2636 | Registered: Feb 2009 | From: Indiana
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:23 AM, June 18th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tryin… thanks for the reply.

Some men get caught up in the "Sex is love"

Yeah, I do equate sex = love along with affection, , support, sacrifice etc. It is a package. Specific behaviors that demonstrate your love for someone else. Love is a verb.

and end up doing "things" just to get the sex. They clean the house, cook dinner, etc and then think by doing this a woman will be happy and want to have sex.

Ironically, my W has told me over the years that she is unhappy and does not feel sexual towards me because I do not do enough around the house and her A was entirely sexual. It will be a monumental challenge for me to discover what she is missing from her life.

I take the position that I never met all my W’s needs. In fact, I believe that if someone cheats it is because they were not happy in some way about their life. They make a choice thinking this will make them happy but there are no winners in infidelity. It fixes nothing and ultimately brings misery in every marriage. People who commit adultery have all kinds of reasons and it could be one of many

Spot on! My W says she has been unhappy; the A brought her happiness; the A has brought misery to our lives. My W is stuck. She sees what has not worked in our M. She wants happiness and contentment but does not know what she needs to be happy and content. I hope to help her discover this and if it does not include me as her H, I am ok with it.

I had a great weekend. Primarily due to a culmination in an awakening within myself of what I will do, not what I want from my W, for my own happiness. Her A bothers me far less than it did (and probably less than it should) now. It is the state of our M and her behaviors towards me today that bothers me greatly.

I told her of my “epiphany” over the weekend and the past two months. The excitement I have for our M and time together. She had almost a pained expression on her face. There is some passive-aggressive nature in her and when I am really upbeat about our relationship she often withdraws. Only my W can address her issues; I can be there to support her and I will be there. I will persist in changing my own life for the better as well. I am enjoying today and looking forward to a great tomorrow.

THANKS for all the comments and insights that have been shared.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 9:24 AM, June 18th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

UKGirl.. I have been curious about the tag line.


There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Can you explain what is meant by “before you say them”?

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
UKgirl
♀ Member
Member # 17062
Default  Posted: 5:15 AM, June 19th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome traditoperanni, I see you have been registered a while, but have had another d-day? How you deal with the OW is up to you. Confrontation is not always the answer, but I wish I had more idea of how to deal with it when the OW turns up on your doorstep. Is she likely to do this? Or is your WH painting a not-quite-true picture of her? Whatever the case, he should do a NC letter and as this has been such a long term affair, he should punctuate it with having no qualms about recourse to the harassment law if she contacts him again. So she threatens suicide. Firstly, they rarely do – it’s only ever a threat. Secondly, if she does, why should either of you care? It would at least mean she was out of the picture. I actually said to my fWH I wish she would just get on with it and die. When he acted all shocked I said “Well, you don’t think she really MEANS it – or are you that gullible?”

Laura – Sorry honey, whatever it is, I’m sorry. It’s so easy for them to disappoint in a so much bigger way than if it had been before d-day. When Mr UKg does something dumb or thoughtless or leads me to think he is being deceptive, it is at least twice as bad as pre d-day. and what’s worse is that he doesn’t get it! So hugs hon. (((((Laura)))))

No time for more. DS17 is home from an exam he actually remembered to go to after being reminded (yes, he FORGOT and MISSED an exam this term). We are now off to Oxford where he has been invited to one of the uni’s on an open day. I’m wondering if it’s worth it…….

h&c – someone else asked about my tagline. I’ve been prompted to look it up. It was in a book I read recently called Small Island by Andrea Levy. Each chapter is from a character’s point of view. This is Queenie. She says this at the beginning of the chapter before a scene with Bernard where she telles him she is pregnant by her black lodger:
There are some words that once spoken will split the world in two. There would be the life before you breathed them and then the altered life after they'd been said. They take a long time to find, words like that. They make you hesitate. Choose with care. Hold on to them unspoken for as long as you can just so your world will stay intact.
I kind of attribute the sentiment of this quote to fWH.

At the end of the chapter, after she has told him, she repeats:
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.
This quote, although based on the one above is after the event, after the confession has been made, so this expresses my side of the same sentiment.

I have two worlds. My life in the world before d-day when everything was fine, before the atom bomb utterance “I’ve had an affair” was released. And then my world after the explosion – the resulting fallout leaving a changed and ravaged landscape where my life used to dwell. And those words did split my world as surely as lightening splitting a tree.

[This message edited by UKgirl at 5:22 AM, June 19th (Tuesday)]


D-Day: 30 July 2006 LTA: 5yrs
Me, BS, 56 y/o Him, WS, 57 y/o
MOW, pathetic ex-fiancee.
3 grown boys and one 18 y/o
I don't consider myself married anymore.
There are some words once spoken split the world in two. Before you say them and after.

Posts: 3328 | Registered: Nov 2007 | From: UK
Laura28
♀ Member
Member # 28997
Default  Posted: 6:14 AM, June 20th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Where's miracle?????

Have I missed something? I miss her.

Laura


Married 30yrs Me BW 57Yrs Him FWH 59yrs
OWzero 1988 EA?/PA? Gaslighted.
Dday May 28 2010.
OW1 1994(6mths PA, EA til dday).
OW2 2002(8yrs PA).
OW3 2009(1Yr PA).
Others???? Status: Not Divorcing..but.."You can't unfuck the goat"

Posts: 2729 | Registered: Jul 2010 | From: Australia
worst-year-ever
♀ Member
Member # 33003
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, June 20th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

h&c - thank you.

I've barely been lurking lately....life just too nuts around here.

NPD mom is planning to leave next week to move out of state, but is pretty determined to drive me insane until she crosses the state line.

I know that I probably sound like a terrible person, but I just want her to move.

Spent last night at the hospital with a friend, who became very ill suddenly with a rather large blood clot. Where it is located, there is an unusually high chance she could throw it, so any good mojo you have to send her way would be great.

Oh, and today is my wedding anniversary. The day we celebrate the vows he broke.

I'd rather just skip it.


Me: BW
Him: FWH
4 kids & 20 years together
DD: 7/7/11
OW1: 3yr+ LTA
OW2: My xBFF
Trying to R

Posts: 1282 | Registered: Aug 2011
hopeandchange
♂ Member
Member # 33287
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, June 20th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NPD mom is planning to leave next week to move out of state, but is pretty determined to drive me insane until she crosses the state line.

I know that I probably sound like a terrible person, but I just want her to move.

No, not a bad person just someone whou is trying to keep her sanity while those you love are demanding that you support them when it is you that needs their support now. I AM SO SORRY. Sending good vibes your way and good mojo to your ill friend.

Oh, and today is my wedding anniversary. The day we celebrate the vows he broke
.
Short and sweet - says it all.

I'd rather just skip it.
I suspect there are few, if any, BS that get joy from celebrating their wedding anniversary post DDay.

WYE.. it is good that you can support your ill friend

Hope you can slide thrugh this day as painlessly as possibel and have a better one tommorrow.

h&c


BH (me, 50)
WS (her, 48)
Divorced!
3 wonderful teens
Heading for Happiness

Posts: 401 | Registered: Sep 2011
ImNellNow
♀ Member
Member # 28753
Default  Posted: 6:17 PM, June 20th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WYE, just sending you hugs.

And, honest, I'm glad you are posting every once in a while. You know how we worry.


BS & D
Drinking wine and thinking bliss is on the other side of this.

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