Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: z1x2606 (43216)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
watchtheskyy
♀ Member
Member # 34197
Default  Posted: 7:06 PM, August 6th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Authenticnow, that's what I aim for and I do a lot of self reflection. It's just that even though I was a WW I don't feel comfortable in the wayward forum because I can't relate to an ongoing affair. I tell my husband constantly that if it was a one time thing I could understand that rather than continuing to a second DDay. I would like to vocalize to him how I felt about my A..the whys and whatnot but if I try to talk to him I'm shut down. He ignores it and then calls me easy or a whore when we're having an argument. He chooses not to confront what either of us has done unless it's in anger. I can talk about his A without ranting and raving at him...we're 2 years out but being that it was a double betrayal I do still have a lot of why's and his answers change over time. I guess a better way to ask is, is there a way I can talk to him about It without coming across as a victim? I'm tired of walking on eggshells about it. I am ready to get our hands dirty and get out of this horrible state of just surviving.


The first step to living the life you want is leaving the life you don't want.

Posts: 198 | Registered: Dec 2011
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:01 AM, August 7th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's just that even though I was a WW I don't feel comfortable in the wayward forum because I can't relate to an ongoing affair.

I can relate to this. It took me a long time of just reading in the wayward forum before I felt I was ready to post. I've heard a lot of BSs and WSs alike state that they've gotten a lot out of just reading out there. There's no pressure to post in any forum, by the way. Whatever you need to do to heal.

I can talk about his A without ranting and raving at him...we're 2 years out but being that it was a double betrayal I do still have a lot of why's and his answers change over time. I guess a better way to ask is, is there a way I can talk to him about It without coming across as a victim?

To me, it almost sounds like there needs to be some parameters placed around these conversations. My wife and I had to come up with some "fair fight agreements" regarding how we handled each other, because we were simply becoming unproductive.

Another idea is to compile a list of specific things that you want to talk about, and limit the conversation to a couple of things at a time on the list. It's really easy to start on one topic, and have a whole bunch of other stuff suddenly latch onto the conversation in a "snowball affect". In fact, that was one of the fair fight agreements that my wife and I had, which we called, "no piling on".

Don't know if any of this is helpful or not. Just sharing some of my personal experience and relatability.

ETA: There's a lot of other "types" of A's in the wayward forum, other than ongoing. There are EA's, ONS's, and many other types. Wanted to be sure to mention that, but got caught up in my own non-caffeinated typing and resulting spelling corrections.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 10:09 AM, August 7th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 4554 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:50 AM, August 7th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Watch the sky,

Are either of you in IC or MC?

MC could help with some of these discussions, it sounds as if your H is not ready to face what you have done and does not want to discuss what he has done either, for him it is just better to move forward, in other words, rugsweep. This will not help matters.

You have to decide if this is how you want your marriage to look, if not, talk to him about going to MC so you guys can talk about what happened so it doesn't happen again.

ETA: Wayward is not about people who are having ongoing affairs, it is for people who have had affairs, ONS (such as myself, or actually two time encounter), EA's or whatever. It is the place where you will do your best work. You will figure out what allowed you to do what you did. Not because your M was shitty, but why did you give yourself that permission. I have made my best friends in that forum. And done my best work there. Give it a try up there.

[This message edited by tired girl at 10:53 AM, August 7th (Wednesday)]


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 2:31 AM, August 9th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Watch - I can definitely relate. I've been spending too much time in General and I need to get back into Wayward. I have been concentrating too much on feeling betrayed when I need to be working on myself more.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 10:20 AM, August 9th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Had what I thought was a brief, but healthy conversation with my wife last night. She started venting about some of the "qualities" of my AP (lack thereof, to be more accurate), but then she cut herself off and said, "yeah, but look who my AP was...".

I told her, no, it's okay for her to separate my shit out from her shit, and to own her anger and disgust about my AP without comparing my AP to her AP. She seemed to appreciate that, and then said, "You know I'm still pissed about that [meaning what I had done, the AP, etc.]."

I told her, "Well, yeah, of course you are! You have every right to be."

That moment we just kind of 'clicked'. We both felt edified. It felt like a healing step in the right direction.

Yet another example of how this specific forum has helped me out.


Posts: 4554 | Registered: Dec 2010
etaoin
♂ Member
Member # 33270
Default  Posted: 6:53 PM, August 9th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Today is my AP's birthday. NC for 7 months. Don't know why, but I feel vaguely down today. I guess its just some odd trigger. But I can use this as a way to avoid breaking NC.

R is going pretty well, and it feels like a book has closed and another opened.

So here's the question. We have a mc session in a week. She wants to use this as a platform to express rage and get the full details at the same time. Anyone else been there? I guess she wants a referee. Is this a good idea?


Posts: 229 | Registered: Sep 2011
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 6:41 AM, August 10th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

etaoin - On my first birthday after I ended my affair I was very sad about AP. I don't know why. Looking back, it just proves that I was still deeply in the fog...

There have been a couple times when my husband and I have saved what we need to say until MC. We do that so yes, things won't get out of control, to make our home a happy one and not always full of A discussion, and yes, to have some sort of unbiased party we can talk with.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3663 | Registered: Dec 2010
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 10:24 PM, August 13th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Have not had time to post lately...
Hummmm. Good to know we are still not alone.
So ,,,all i can say is up...down...up...down...up...down.
Rite now, down to childish finger pointing. Any one else,?
Impasse.
Kids are back.
Im sorry to read more and more every day here.
Very disjointed today, been sick to stomach alot lately. Lost 12 pds.
Wife lost 10! Heavens shes only 90 now.
Mc works. My heart breaks when i look at her.
Not for what shes done yet. But for what ive done to her. Shes having a very hard time with the length and number of my affairs etc.
Seems im stuck here with this thought. Cant deal with her crap yet.
Mine looms larger ...

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:54 AM, August 14th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

things are going pretty well for us... he went on a vacation with our sons and other then triggering badly when I saw OW1, I did just fine...

We have MC this weekend. And, I have to face some facts. They are really about me:

I think if someone decides to stay, they have to be “good with things” and “accepting.” They have to work to put things behind them. This is very very difficult to me. There are things I’ll never forgive. I don’t understand how someone could be caught in a 2nd affair and continue to lie about things – Are you ok with me not getting beyond this? Are you ok with me not giving my entire heart to you because of things like this?


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3663 | Registered: Dec 2010
whatamess11
♀ Member
Member # 37781
Default  Posted: 9:44 AM, August 21st (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,

We just began year 2 last month.
My H and I have having some major issues in that he still isn't sure he wants recovery...which makes me feel like it;s a false R.

I want R and my feeling is whatever the outcome (whether it be to stay together or D down the line), R can only have a fair chance and be effective if both people are putting in 150% so to speak.

My H is trying, and he's made a lot of progress although he says he hasn't...like he can't admit it, but he can only deal with his pain and hurt. I hurt too, and he has verbalized that he doesn't care about my hurt or pain....so I rarely share my pain with him.

I talk about whatever he wants....when he wants..we have no ground rules for when to talk about A stuff...it's basically whenever my H wants to, but I don't get the same in return. And when I try to talk to him something that hurts me...something he did in the past or how R is going, he talks over me..drowns me out and starts talking about what I did...so therefore I walk on eggshells. And he still gets very angry communicating his anger in counter productive ways, although he's working in this and has made progress with it.

Additionally, some of his behaviors at times appear punitive in that he will give me the look of death, give me the finger silently while watching TV, not addressing me when I walk in the room...I know he's angry and hurt and I get that and when I try to help him by listening to him (which often includes a lot of anger at me), he basically says there's nothing I can do. That it is what it is.

I just feel that R means just that RECOVERY...which is really, really hard work. To do EVERYTHING you can do before throwing the towel in. I need more from him. For this R to stand a chance, he needs to give more as hard as that might be. Our therapist says that for the most part it's a one sided R....in that there is no balance. Has anyone else experienced this? I love my H very much... I'm doing all I can as a WS to help him and me...I'm really at a loss here...I just can't get him to hear me. All I want him to hear is that I hurt too..that for R to have a chance he needs to care about my pain too.

I'm writing this as I'm looking for help. Maybe I'm be insensitive and I don't realize it? This isn't about he's wrong..I'm right...or I'm wrong..he's right. Just wondering if any of you have experienced this, and, if so, what you, as a couple, were able to do to help you move through this situation while in R.


D-Day 7/6/12 - My A was discovered that day; he confessed of his A's the day after
Me: WS/BS
HIM: WS/BS (Cantgetworse11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 62 | Registered: Dec 2012
918Mama
♀ Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 8:10 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a quick check in to tell you I haven't fallen off the face of the earth. It's been a busy couple of weeks with my daughter starting school, my h moving out and trying to get into routine. I appreciate everyone's thoughts and guidance so much.

TG...I've been sitting with your words, and my feelings. This just totally clicked with me..


The reason why this is happening is because you self medicated with your AP after DD. You have not dealt with your feelings in any real true way and so they are still there. The only way they go away is through them. Learning to sit with them and not try to escape them or yourself is going to be a journey for you. The question is, do you want to learn?

I do want to learn. I want to break whatever patterns I have that led me to this. And I am trying to feel the feelings. They suck. :-)

In IC this week, my therapist asked I I liked myself. I told her I thought I was awesome, because I am.

She said,of course. But do you like yourself? Two very different questions.

So now begins my journey of self love. Should be interesting...


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 364 | Registered: Dec 2012
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, August 23rd (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Folks, old eh needs some help.
Why is it when i trigger on something, then my wife owns her side of this, does and says all the right things, why do i still get SO fickin pissed.
I feel as though hearing her own her sht pisses me of more than if i just did not have to hear it.
Shes contrite, in ic, mc and doing everything to save this, but ,,,it.just.pisses.me.off.
Why

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:42 AM, August 25th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EH,

It can often times be easier to be angry than to be hurt and afraid. What is under your anger?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi All,

I guess I need some support (which can include 2x4s) this morning. I've not been able to move out due to full weekends out of town so it has allowed me to be essentially avoidant.

In the meantime WH has been telling me how much he wants me to stay...and contrasting that with a continued EA (although basically restricted to what he can get away with at work). We got into a fight when I found out he walked with her to his car after work last week (because it was a 'friendly' walk to their cars which were, of course, right next to eachother).

Last night we had a good talk where he answered questions about the start of their A a year and a half ago. He even relayed the details of their conversation on Friday. It was wholly inappropriate in that he told her details about our fight that day. She of course jumped in with 'why doesn't she just leave?' and 'are you safe?' and 'do you want to crash at my place?'. He of course found this very supportive (because he has no one else to talk to) and it made him feel better.

Even with hearing that I kept it together while I was relating to him that this entire conversation is inappropriate to have with her. He agreed that he would not say these things to other co-workers but he could tell her because 'he needed to find out if I had talked to her and he needed to relay to her that this (our fights) are the reason that he can't go out to lunch with her or see her after work. That it's because of me he can't do this not because of anything that she has done.

I still kept it in and relayed to him how, based upon what he told me, he did not convey any of that (what he says he intended to convey) and what he actually did was present himself to her as the victim in this situation (and I reminded him that he has told me many times that I should not act a victim because I have done the same things he is doing...and he didn't demand that I end my As). In his conversation he also referred to me as 'irrationally jealous'. I've told him many times, including last week, that the only people I've been jealous of are the two that he has told he loved and wanted to leave me for. And that it seemed to me a reasonable reaction to be fearful (since jealousy is fear based) of those two people for that reason.

After about 3 hours of talking...not in agreement...but talking he wanted to end the conversation. I wanted to keep going but I put my respectful hat on and we agreed to talk again tonight.

Here's where it gets (even) worse. Or, IMO, THE worst of the evening.

I start to spontaneously cry - not bawling but tears (of stress release I believe) were streaming down my face for about 2 - 3 minutes. He said, "Stop doing that or I'm not going to talk to you again about this".

I asked if he was being sarcastic or serious (because his attempts at sarcasm are indistinguishable from being serious). He said he was serious 'we had a good conversation where we kept our emotions in check and now you are emotional for no reason'.

I explained that this was just a release of stress and he should not admonish me for showing emotions especially since I was not 'directing' these tears at him. It was just a stress release. His response, 'well, I just can't deal with your emotions'.

I left the room and went to mine.

This morning things were cool. He came to my room to say he was leaving for work and saw I was reading something. He asked what I was reading and I showed him the 'Not Just Friends' book. He gave an annoyed/dismissive look and walked away.

I texted him and asked him for tonight to think of 3 concrete action items he would like me to do in the next month to make him feel loved/supported. I said I would think of 3 that he could do for me. I also said that one of them should not be him saying 'don't check up on me' and I wouldn't say 'don't talk to your AP') since we clearly will not agree to do either of those. He has not responded at all to those (I wasn't expecting an answer but an 'ok' would have been something).

I know that this is all wrong. Every bit of it. Everything he is doing and everything I am doing. I think I'm feeling guilty because (gaslighting) and he said that he feels like my making requests of him (demands as he says) makes him feel bullied - especially since he did not act the same towards me during my As.

And it's also because I'm still scared of him blaming me for the dissolution of our relationship. I know that is what he will do - regardless of the current circumstances - it will be rewritten in his head as him 'trying' (because he's no longer sleeping with her and he's no longer having dates with her - if you don't count the occasional lunch to a fast food restaurant. The last that I know about being 4 weeks ago).

My life mantra has been - I don't need to be given the praise, I just don't want to be the reason for blame. (Yes, working on this in IC).

OK, let those 2x4s come. I'm ready.


ETA: I will also add that Friday morning (when I confronted him about the previous night's 'happy walk to their cars') that he was texting me saying how much he did not want to split up and to please not say we were done. Then later in the afternoon he texted and had a very defiant tone ('fine, leave' kind of thing). I was curious about the change and it makes total sense now because the defiant texts were after his conversation with his AP.

ETA2: When I've done the 180 I also get comments that I'm being 'emotionally manipulative' and that his always having to think about 'is JAS having me followed or thinking I'm with my AP right now?' is "emotional torture" for him.

I've got a doozy here, don't I?!

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 11:12 AM, August 26th (Monday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 3:37 PM, August 26th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG, u may have hit the proverbial nail here. Fear of losing her?

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:20 PM, September 4th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How is everyone doing in MH land? Haven't heard from several of you lately.

Just a shadow how are you?

EH,
How are things going with you guys? Fear of losing her may be under that, what do you think?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:00 AM, September 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just checking in. It's been months, but things are getting better.

The advice about separating out each person's infidelity... It's spot on. On the one hand, you can acknowledge your real pain of being betrayed. On the other hand, you can detach from your partner's choices and look at yours.

I'm still looking at boundaries. At first there was a long period of prohibition - limitations on friends in general, male friends especially. When a pair of married male friends wanted to get in touch with me, Mr Silver and I worked on it together, though I initially kept distance from them. The result of tentative contact has been that Mr Silver has met my friends and discovered that they like to play video games as well. I value him having some healthy male friends. Until this past year, he didn't. He had drug dealer/user friends. The other realization is, we're both homebodies. So we don't want to be as social as everyone else. And that's where the other boundaries are coming into place now.

Completely cutting off is so much easier than actually having friendships with people of any gender. So that's a new level of learning for me, and I'm thinking for Mr Silver too. But I'm trying more than anything to stay on the same page as him. I always share any communications with any friends with Mr Silver and don't make plans without asking him (and he's always welcome to come, though he usually declines). On that front, it feels good to have a team.

On another front, I see him growing as a person. While I am support, this is his journey and I can only watch or walk alongside. But as a result, there are certain realities I have to accept. His boundaries are different than mine. He's being extra mindful about other women now, but I think it's more to not hurt or upset me. I'm pretty sure his internal boundaries are different. And that's who he is. My job is to accept it. No other choice really.

Still working on my own boundaries. I want to be a faithful person. So now is the time to work on and build everything that goes along with that, and with being a healthy person.

Hope all of you are doing OK on your journeys.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3762 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
918Mama
♀ Member
Member # 37756
Default  Posted: 2:33 PM, September 8th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Having a rough time in MH land over here. Mr918 and I had been doing well - I thought. We are separated but doing things together as a family, getting along, helping each other and spending time hanging out. I thought that meant we were healthy grown ups who could put the needs of our kids before our own wants.

He thought that meant we were working things out.

He then asked me some questions about the OM that I answered honestly - because I thought that was the right thing to do?? He of course didn't like the answers which were "yes I still love him" and "yes I miss him."

Nothing is happening on that front. There is no relationship with him or anyone for that matter. But I do have feelings for him which haven't gone away.

That killed Mr918 who immediately spiraled into depression and is back in an absolute funk, barely able to function.

I hate it. I hate seeing the man I've loved for so many years, my children's father, hurt. But I can't do anything about it. Every other time I've tried to pull away and separate and he's gotten like this, it pulls me back in. Ok, I'll stay. Just be happy and don't kill yourself.

I can't do it anymore. He has to learn to control his own feelings and emotions separate from anything I feel. I can't stay to keep him together. I can only be responsible for my own thoughts and feelings and emotions.

I guess I should probably have said nothing. Shouldn't have even engaged in the conversation with him. I just didn't want to lie. It's so hard to know what move to make anymore.

Eta: stupid autocorrect

[This message edited by 918Mama at 2:35 PM, September 8th (Sunday)]


Surrender to what is. Let go of what was. Have faith in what will be. -- Sonia Ricotti

Posts: 364 | Registered: Dec 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:52 AM, September 9th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


He then asked me some questions about the OM that I answered honestly - because I thought that was the right thing to do?? He of course didn't like the answers which were "yes I still love him" and "yes I miss him."

have you read much on affair fantasy love? Because ya know, gently, it wasn't real love and you don't really miss "him." you miss the hit you got from being wanted and real love doesnt' compromise a person... which he did with you and you with him.
It's great that you were honest but exploring these issues might make it a little easier for your husband to digest.



his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3663 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:35 AM, September 10th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silver,

You have come such a long way in your journey. I love reading your posts.

918.

I thought that meant we were healthy grown ups who could put the needs of our kids before our own wants.
He thought that meant we were working things out.

Were clear expectations established prior to spending time together as a family? If you guys are S maybe this is not a good idea right now. Your H needs to get to a place where he can let go of this M and you need to as well, the two of you continuing to rely on each other in any capacity is not good for you or the children.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.