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User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
Unagie
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Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:04 PM, July 11th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked were you still living together and acting as a couple or were you officially separated and filing for D?


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 9:16 PM, July 11th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked were you still living together and acting as a couple or were you officially separated and filing for D?

See, I knew someone would come along that would know the right questions to ask.

Very important question Unagie is asking here.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 9:17 PM, July 11th (Thursday)]


Posts: 4552 | Registered: Dec 2010
Shockedman
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Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 3:05 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

No we aren't acting as a couple. Rings off. We physically separated on d-day. I asked her to move out. We have only seen each other 2 times for a brief moment. We have not had sex in 8 months. For the first month or so it was 180 and nc. We only discussed logistical stuff. No relationship stuff...We did start talking a bit lately about the A and other details mostly about D, and that is when MC came up. She says she is nc with om, but i am not sure since we arent living together. Not sure I even want MC, but fear not turning over every stone because will I regret it someday? For now I think keeping it hidden is best. If it is needed to heal, then I tell, but not just to hurt her, if we are going to D anyway. Am I being crazy? A hypocrite?

[This message edited by Shockedman at 3:12 AM, July 12th (Friday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 3:56 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked - I'm sorry for what you are going through, dude. Your pain is evident in your posts, and I feel for you. I think the time to tell her about your infidelity is now. When I told my wife, it was a secret for 15 years, but it hit her like yesterday. Trust me, you don't want that. Let go of the outcome... ultimately you will be alright. You'll feel a lot better about yourself telling the truth versus keeping a horrible secret. Take care.

Posts: 4552 | Registered: Dec 2010
Unagie
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Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 5:56 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Talk of MC is going on. Until those divorce papers are signed and processed you are legally married. I say come clean, don't wait. Keeping it in does you no good, I know holding in about my A was making me into a horrible person to be around. I used to be happy, cheerful, goofy and with a smile for anyone. Now I'm depressed, rarely smile and I'm not great company but during A and the three months after I was in a dark place and everyone knew something was wrong with me, especially SO. Don't do it to yourself or her. Respect both of you enough to come clean.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
authenticnow
♀ Moderator
Member # 16024
Default  Posted: 6:13 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked, we joined SI in 2007 because I cheated on my H.

However, in 1994, we separated because he was with OW (which I didn't know at the time, he just told me he was unhappy). Anyway....very long story short, while he was out of the house and my self esteem was shot, I met a guy through a friend and we had sex. BH decided he wanted to try to make the M work (he had some kind of revelation ) and he wanted to come home. We did IC/MC and he asked me if I slept with 'that busdriver'. I lied and told him no.

Years of rugsweeping, shitty MC, going through the motions of healing (damn no SI in the late 90s!) and I cheat...The busdriver was one of the rounds of TT. It was a 13 year lie that was very, very hard for my BH to swallow.

The point of this story is, tell your wife now. Don't let this lie stay out there. I thought I'd die with that secret. Then I got to a point in my life where I didn't want any more lies or secrets and there it was, still out there.


Take up your space (and do it well).

"That's the thing about pain, it demands to be felt."


Posts: 34746 | Registered: Sep 2007
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 8:16 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear shocked, I apologize if my original response seemed harsh pushing you to tell her now. I misunderstood and didn't realize you are currently not living together/acting as a couple.
However, my advice still doesn't really change. Unless the D papers are filed and you are both in agreement to go ahead and start seeing other people, you cheated.
You are right you have no idea if she is really NC with OM or not, and you may never know, but you cannot control her. One thing that I have said to my BH/WH a lot recently and that is a very true statement is that "Since dday, i have made decisions that I can be proud of. i can hold my head up and be proud of who I am and what i do. No, that doesn't erase the years of bad, but I know moving forward I have been a good person, whether my H wants to believe that or not is a separate issue...I can feel good about myself. Now that doesn't mean I do not still feel terrible about the person I was for years and that I have forgiven myself, because I havent, but I can say since x date, i have been the person i want to be."
Be the person that you want to be shocked...much luck to you, this is a difficult place to be.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
Shockedman
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Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 9:05 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks all for your responses. I know you are all right, but it is so hard to add this mess to my already complicated mess. I am also worried about crushing my friend. I believe I should tell her first that I am going to tell WW and then tell her we can't be friends anymore. That will suck big time too. I think WW will freak, and rightfully so, then demand NC between me and my friend. Any advice on that? Also, do you think telling her in MC is best or in person so we can both decide if we even want MC? Any of you WS fall in "love" with AP? That now would be my main reason I can't ever see R in our future.

Also, a ONS is not the same as a long term EA and PA, but it does in some way help me empathize with WW a bit. Does anyone have any comments on that? Has being the betrayed and the betrayer helped you at all in healing? I don't want to do the wrong things for the wrong reasons because I now feel guilty.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 9:11 AM, July 12th (Friday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 9:28 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think WW will freak, and rightfully so, then demand NC between me and my friend. Any advice on that?

You aren't married to the 'friend' and never were. its unfair of you to be married to someone and yet act like you owe something to this friend. You dont need to tell the friend anything and NC would be best for you right now. Regardless of your W, YOU need to act with authenticity. There is no 'fall in love' here unless you've seen unicorns farting rainbows flying by. i.e. give it a rest.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, being a bit harsh but you need to step out of your wayward thinking as we call it here. On the MH question, you'd think empathy was something to be developed by being both WS and BS, unfortunately, that is not normally the case. The focus should be on YOURSELF and changing your Wayward thought processes and taking stock/fixing yourself to get to a healthier place. YOU CANNOT CHANGE your WW. YOU CAN CHANGE yourself. negotiating a R because youre both wayward wouldnt be a healthy dynamic. trying to fix yourself to be healthier - regardless of the OUTCOME is probably the only thing that'll work for you.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
Shockedman
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Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't mean, I am in love. I am not. WW is in love with her AP. That is the main obstacle I am facing in moving forward. I am not married to my friend and I did warn her that this would likely end our friendship, but being a caring person I don't want to crush her as I know now she has developed feelings for me. What a fucking mess. I really don't feel I have a wayward thought process. I realize I fucked up big time. I let the hurt and betrayal get me down so much and effect my self esteem so much I needed to be validated.....no justification to cheat ever. I know, but it is my reason....
I really don't feel like I am a bad person. I made a HUGE mistake and can never take that back, but I felt immediate remorse and in no way want to or will perpetuate that behavior. I knew it wouldn't validate me or make me feel better, but I did it anyway because I was selfish and wanted the human connection I am missing now....

Please be gentle with me. Really struggling. Today is my 10 year wedding anniversary and I am SO sad.

[This message edited by Shockedman at 10:17 AM, July 12th (Friday)]


Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Spideysense
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Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked, nobody is suggesting you are a bad person, not at all, we (in this thread especially) have all been that person. however i agree with noescape that you sound wayward right now, and i would believe that you are not intentionally trying to sound that way, nor do you even probably realize that you do, but you do. I need to tell my friend first? i know this is going to crush her? what about your W? You don't need to tell your friend anything. Imagine for a moment if you and your W decide to R, imagine putting in YEARS of hard work to get to that safe place again, and then imagine she finds out that this happened. It will not be water under the bridge because it was so long ago, for your W it will be like it JUST HAPPENED and it will crumble everything you built. Or imagine that you decide on D, imagine that your WW actions will come out and yours does not, then imagine again in YEARS that you XW finds out you cheated and lied during the M also. Is that who you want to be shocked? You sound like a GOOD person, a person that is confused and shocked and hurting but a good person, but this lie by omission will not keep you a good person.

I may have missed it but how long ago did your WW A end? She may still be in the fog. Especially since the two of you are separated and not living as a couple, she may still be entertaining these "love thoughts" because she hasn't stepped out of the fog yet, it doesn't mean that she is in love (she is in love with the attention, and butterflies, and fantasy) and that R is not possible.
It is not "fair" that you should have to wait for her to get out of this fog, that you should have to suffer while she works on herself or whatever, but life isn't always fair, only you can decide if its worth it.


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
Shockedman
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Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 11:31 AM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know you are all right and I must tell her soon. Just trying to gather the courage. Today's not the day for sure. I only wanted to tell my friend first because I wanted to apologize for this mess before I would not have the chance. She is a good person too and has been very supportive and there for me in this time of need. Probably wayward thinking.....

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 12:48 PM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked, i agree with today being your anniversary, today is not the day, just remember that time passing does not make it any easier to tell her so dont wait too long for your courage okay?

Im obviously injecting my own experience, but the day after my WH dday, which was actually the day he admitted there was someone else and finally came home to discuss with me, there was alcohol involved, i went to sleep (or honestly, passed out)...he left me at home, went to meet OW to do just that...apologize to her for ever being involved, for involving her in his drama, etc etc. this ow who 'meant nothing" who "was a mistake" who he "wasnt choosing over me" yep, after i begged him for nearly 48 hours straight to come talk to me after i found her phone number and had talked to her, after i drank myself stupid because at the time that was the only way i could possibly cope with my world crashing, after our conversation that night didnt make it that far because i was a hysterical mess, yep after all that, he left me to go "do the right thing and apologize to her" my reaction? what a load of bull..wayward thinking all the way...she didnt deserve any apology for any drama...she invited the drama in when she decided to be involved with a married man. again, not trying to sound harsh, just telling you my reaction. If you go to the friend first, when you do eventually tell your W, shes going to ask details, when what how where, when did you last talk to her, how did it go, if you knew it was so wrong and it made you feel so bad, why go apologize, why go "get closure" (also a wayward term) etc, these are the questions she will have, and your answer...i wanted to apologize to her for involving her, hurting her, using her, insert whatever is not going to sit well with your W. Again, good luck to you, i do hope this weekend improves for you.


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
tired girl
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Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:21 PM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked,

If I could give you one piece of advice.

Do not apologize to the woman you slept with. She knew you were married and she chose to do it anyway. Say you can no longer have contact and leave it at that.

Hardlessons apologized to his AP and it is one thing that I have a really hard time with. She deserved no apology, she was messing with a married man, she deserved nothing, she was lucky she didn't hear from me. If your wife finds out you apologized she will have a hard time.

JMO


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Unagie
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Member # 37091
Default  Posted: 9:52 PM, July 12th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I agree with TG. He spent 2 hours on the phone with OW apologizing for ME wanting his to go NC. Then after he proceeded to recount how hurt she was to me. I will never forget how hurt that convo made me.


Heartbroken madhatter trying to rebuild

No longer together

Do not let others be your reference for who you see in the mirror.

Stop allowing people to hurt you, because you don't love you enough to walk away.


Posts: 2380 | Registered: Oct 2012
Shockedman
♂ Member
Member # 39376
Default  Posted: 7:33 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thank you all for your advice and support. i told WW last night about my encounter and we talked about it for about 3 hours. I answered all her questions honestly and i was overall quite surprised at her responses. she was of course very upset, but did not lash out the way i thought. i think she is racked with so much guilt from her LTA, that she couldn't bring herself to feel as much as she wanted. now we have this giant mess and neither of us are sure how we move forward. we pretty much have only been talking D for the last 2 or 3 weeks, but now we are thinking some MC might steer us in some direction. neither of us have any idea how to deal or process and after almost 2 months we still seem to be at an impass. she still has seriuos feelings for her AP. she was in a deep EA and PA for 7 months. i complicated it more by sleeping with a friend after a night of heavy drinking and self loathing. i know there is NO justification. i pounded this into WW, yet i did it too and want to justify it in my mind because my sexual self esteem was in the toilet and i needed validation. All BS, i know. it was my choice and i take full responsibility for it. any of you mad hatters have any advice on what to do here? how do we move forward? i am really trying to take the advice of letting go of the outcome, but we are so lost on even what direction to go in....

Posts: 102 | Registered: May 2013
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 9:34 AM, July 17th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Shocked, I am unfortunately too soon into my own mess to have any advice on what to do, but i do encourage MC and IC as well, it has worked for me, even if nothing turns out how i want, I am at least learning communication. so yes i encourage both of you to seek counseling.
The only other thing i want to say is I am proud of you. It was very hard to have that conversation with your wife.

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
Jannarae
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Member # 39849
Default  Posted: 12:28 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I posted my New Here post on the reconciliation board and they told me about this thread since my story puts me as both the WS/BS unfortunately.

So my story I will go into a little more detail here. About 6 years ago I had an EA with a man that I met online while gaming. H was working out of town and I found myself lonely and feeling sorry for myself (not an excuse at all, just the way I felt). Well this OM said all the right things and before I knew I fell for his bullshit. We never had any sexual contact it was all online, but I did send some pics. H found out after I had been involved in this affair for 2 years. He of course was devastated and I felt dirty and disgusting and so many other things.

H stayed and we continued on pretty much like it never happened. Rugsweeping I think is the term used.

On 4/27/11 H came home to me and told me that he had been cheating on me for 6 months, which I already knew cause I had evidence (emails, phone bills, stuff like that). Then told me that he wanted to be with this OW and that he was leaving me. He moved out the same day and proceeded to live with OW for the last two years.

Okay here is where the story gets weird I guess. I never stopped loving H and although in the 2 years of our seperation I dated, I found I was just happier being single and raisin my boys. Well in March H calls me and asks me if he can move into my spare bedroom and he wants to see if we can work on our marriage and fix it. I was shocked but I agreed.

On 5/11/13 he moved back into the house but not into the spare bedroom as I do not have a bed in there, so needless to say we are sleeping together. We have talked a lot about the A and the last two years. He says things like he wanted me to feel what he felt and then things just got out of hand and before he knew two years was up. He has also told me that he is not sure that he loves me anymore but he does know that he loves/d her. His actions don't tell me that he doesn't love me as far as when he's touching me and such. Sex has happened twice but neither of us really want to do it right now.

We are not in any counseling as of right now, but we talk a lot and he has told me that he has NC with her. He has given me all of his passwords for everything and I can check the cell phone records if I want, but I was completely obsessing so I had to stop and pull myself away from looking. I have mind movies all the time of him and her and the fact that he was basically married to her for 2 years.

I don't really know what kind of advice I am looking for. I guess it just helps to get it out, to type it out. I want to move forward and I want to believe that we are in R.

I guess I am just hoping that it will get easier...


Posts: 25 | Registered: Jul 2013 | From: Colorado
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 12:58 PM, July 18th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jannarae-did something happen that made him come back home? it may just help with responses if you clarify, was it she ended things with him and he didn't have anywhere else to go? Forgive me if I am wrong, but just from what you posted it sounds like he loves/loved her, doesn't know if he loves you but wants to make your marriage try to work now? Why? is it the safety and security of something he's known?

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
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