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User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:48 AM, June 26th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, a few things here and you guys may not like my advice, so take it or leave it, this just comes from my own experience.

EH,

What you walked in on was difficult, it sucked, no two ways about it. I know you are in pain, this whole thing sucks. Here is the deal, so is your wife, madhatter situations suck. You have had years to deal with the knowledge that you were cheating on her, she has had a matter of weeks to deal with that, and she is obviously not dealing with it in the right way. At some point, you two have to have a conversation. The thing about madhatter situations is that we can't spend the whole time only looking at OUR pain, we have to remember that we caused the same exact pain to our partner. We HAVE to have empathy, if we don't, well divorce is the only option. Find out if the two of you can converse, if for nothing else because you two have children together.

Spidey,

Your H doesn't have the tools yet to know how to give you what you are looking for. If he did, he probably wouldn't have had an A. Sometimes in this R process we have to draw our partners a roadmap for what we need, sucks but there it is. If you need him to talk to you, then bring him to the table, literally, tell him to bring some paper and a pen, and tell him to make notes about what you are needing because he is going to need to check that list daily. Set up times to talk about this for right now, don't leave it up to chance, say we are going to talk about this every M,W,F night for 1 hour. That way he knows the expectation. I know you want him to do this himself, but until he develops some tools on communication, and coping skills, that won't happen. Is he in IC? What steps is he taking pro actively to fix this? What do you want out of this?

[This message edited by tired girl at 10:49 AM, June 26th (Wednesday)]


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 12:52 PM, June 26th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you TG, I know that I could ease my own disappointment by just saying look WH, you said we could talk and you would answer my questions...so right now saddle up lets go. But you are right, he knows how important this is to me, I have continuously brought it up and I do want him to say ok lets do it. I feel like im nagging him into doing something he doesnt want to do (that's fine we can talk but idk what else you could possibly want to know spidey) and I as much as i want this talk to happen, i dont want to force it, and i dont want it to turn into him being angry at me again and saying i am looking for reasons to hate him to not get over this etc. I feel like he sends me text after text after text about how he isnt giving up, he will make me happy again, etc. but those are just words to me, he is giving up. and i cant get past my gut feeling that my priority isnt a priority for him because he is still communicating with her (which he denies). i feel like such a mess

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 2:28 PM, June 26th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG, advice...well received.
Anger,shame,anger,shame,anger,shame.
I do need to speak with her.
Should i call her, or maintain nc...
???? Need a manual.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 6:22 PM, June 26th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spidey,

Sit down and give him what YOUR boundaries are, NC, and what actions you need to see. How do you know they are in contact?

EH,

Is she still contacting you by phone? I would suggest trying to set up a meeting maybe with your IC? Maybe for the first one so you guys can get some talking in with a third party helping. Would she agree to that?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 9:01 AM, June 27th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

EH,
Are you doing any better today? Sending healing thoughts your way again.


So after H was aloof and non-committal all day yesterday (weve been arguing essentially all week since Sunaday night) i am sending him texts about how bad i feel how hurt i am how we still havent talked, hes responding back "what time are you going to lunch" "what is the plan for dinner" are you kidding me???
Anyway so come home last night, he is mean, tells me im frustrating him that im being ridiculous that im saying crazy things "i said if theres someplace else youd rather be you can go"

anyway, he finally agreed to talk to me. he answered all of my 40+ questions. He tried very hard not to be frustrated while talking to me. He let me talk when i needed to. He let me explain some other things.
overall i do not feel like I got excellent answers to some of the things, his reason was he doesnt remember he was very intoxicated (i can confirm the intoxicaion part) so i have to decide if i believe the answers he gave me. theres nothing more he can say to me regarding these issues its up to me to decide now. There are some questions that i expected the answers to bother me...and some i thought would be easy yes or no questions, one of them took me by surprised and affected me (had OW met our children-the answer was yes).
other questions hurt to hear the answer to, and made me question some other things, but he did tell me so i feel like that is a start, he could have lied to me (i would have proven he was lying based on computer activity) but he didnt even try, he was honest.
so i dont know where this leaves me, but after feeling so much worse yesterday early evening, i felt much better in the wee morning hours when we finally went to sleep.

Now what? Any advice?


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:35 AM, June 27th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spidey,

What ACTIONS is he taking to fix himself?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 10:17 AM, June 27th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes, ACTIONS is a big thing, MC has told him how important it is for his actions to match his words. During the argument phase of yesterday, I discussed actions with him, specifically what he could do hasnt done has done etc.

He kept saying theres nothing I can do to change how you are feeling which honestly just pissed me off...so what you arent even going to try? no thats not the way it gets to work sir. You dont get to blow up my phone with texts about how you will do whatever it takes to fix this and then ummm do nothing.

Last night i was very proud of myself and the way I handled things both the arguing and the questioning. I was firm, I shut him down when he tried to blameshift.

We again discussed actions that I need. I told him the consequences if he doesnt step up. I also went into detail why i need these things etc. He seems to get it. But i have thought that in the past and he clearly didnt get it, so at this point I am going to see what his actions are, I think I was very clear in my expectations and boundaries.

Im jsut not sure how to behave right now, getting these questions answered was such a huge deal for me (rightly or wrongly), so now what, trust is still shattered but I am exhausted from my constant worry and mind movies. Do I now move forward like things are going to improve and wait for his actions and behaviors to reflect that? I honestly just want a few days of normal, but I don't want him to get mad if after a few days of normal or a week of normal I get triggered, I dont think he is still prepared to handle that. I think he doesnt get that part. Although i pointed out to him


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 9:07 AM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So, umm we had a looooong talk yesterday. Off/on most of the day.
Productive i suppose. Agreed to separate, and divorce. Big d.
Big d. Oh she owned up to things as best as she could. I did too. Too much water has washed the bridge away here. Hmmmm said shefound her soulmate. Yea i used that on at least two married women ive fcked.
Used ...
That s agood description.
Shes going bac to albuquerque next week.
To stay.


Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 10:16 AM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dear Exhausted,
I am sorry it is leading to the end, but just from an outsiders view it does sound like that may be what is best...for both of you.
Yes she probably does feel like she's found her soulmate...its easy, its new, theres no baggage to deal with, theres no work needing done to make it work, its the easy choice and shes taking it.

I have no words of wisdom, or even advice, just thinking about you and how difficult this time must be for you. Try to take care of yourself and keep us updated.


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 12:01 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tomorrow is our 12th wedding anniversary.

I'm sad. Normally I am all about celebrating everything. But I just want tomorrow to be over. I asked the husband for two things for our anniversary. I wanted a blessing at church and a love letter. I am afraid I'm not going to get either. I told him this weeks ago. I feel like he can't spare 3 minutes to make a phone call to the priest or 5 to write a love letter. How much am I really worth to him?


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:18 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Spidey,

What are you doing right now to heal yourself? IC?

Cuppa,

Sit down and talk to him today and discuss plans, if this is really that important to you, don't leave it up in the air like this. Communication is key with things like this. This is where things get messed up. We expect them to read our minds on how important things are, they feel life and death to us and we have not communicated that to them. Sit down and discuss this.

EH,

I wouldn't bank on this lasting with her, but I do feel that there has been a lot of damage to this M. If she is saying she wants D as well, then moving forward with it is probably best. Continuing IC for you is critical at this point, continue with your healing so you can be a healthy person. I am so sorry it has ended this way.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 12:29 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cup, if my w had come out with something like asking for a blessing and a love letter, yesterday i would have moved a mountain to do so...in your situation...
However emotions may still be raw?
I would imagine ...
Crap an anniversary would kill me rite about now...maybeyour h and you too let it slide . Till healing
Hopefully...

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 12:37 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG, thx! Yesterday i saw her. Forgot to mention things got emotional for her and i ...ive since looked up hysterical bonding
?? Pretty sure thats what happened
Dont know why i had too ...but i did. And she did. Then hours later goodbye...both of us, all over the map. That seems more hurtfull
Not sure sex was the best thing to do but she wouldnt drop it.
Need a manual.

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Eh,

Yes, that is what happened. And if you are not living together it can make things feel very confusing.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 12:46 PM, June 29th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He keeps tellingly be has memory issues. Seriously dude you are 32. Not a valid excuse.

He doesn't get why I just can't be happy and see how he's working on being a better man. Last time he just glossed over what I did to move on. Now that it's him he thinks I should do so for him. I told him that I am sorry I'm dealing with this differently than him and that's ok I'm allowed to. I think he wants me to look at the playing field as even.

Even does feel good at all.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OMG Cuppa...I feel like we are talking about the same person. My H absolutely glossed over mine, not to say he wasn't hurt and there werent a few very bad days, but i sprang into action, my dday was the motivation i needed to kick my A and pour all my energy into making my H feel safe and loved again.

Unfortunately he never talked about how he was feeling, I went to IC, he didn't do MC with me at that point. He rarely wanted to talk about it unless there was a lot of alcohol involved. He wants me to behave the same way. He sucked it up and moved on so why can't I?
I have said the same thing to him, Im sorry that I am not handling it the same way that you did...however, his way obviously didn't work out so well since he felt the need to have an A after me. I told him I am entitled to feel any way and to respond as such. Just because I am handling it differently doesn't mean its wrong, trust me I know it sucks to be in the hot seat, I know it sucks to look at the one you love and know how much you hurt them, but pretending everything is fine and just ignoring it doesn't help....we did that before and look where its led us...
No advice, just saying I can relate


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

So...i wake up this morning to a text to "plz come outside. I left something on the porch."
I almost thought it to be a bomb, or something.
Well theres a large bowl of hot posole and handmade tortillas.
Part of me grabbed it and tossed it.
Another part of me tried to see if i could save any of it from the dumpster...am i losing it or what.
?
Not much else yet.
Hows everyone today????

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She canceled going bac to albuquerque....ladies, whats in her head...plz...why is she doing these things now???
Food on my porch...staying here...
Even asked if we could go to m/c. Before divorcing. Ugh.


Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 2:09 PM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I would never try to guess what somebody else's motivation is for doing things, i have a difficult time understanding my own, but having said that, it seems logical that it may be one of the following:

-she is scared that the decision she made to be done and move on will not be the best decision in the long run and she wants to keep you on the back burner in case it doesnt work out how shes planned it.
-she realizes that she made a huge mistake and she just isnt sure how to go about fixing it.
-she still does want to leave just isnt sure how to go about doing it in a way taht doesnt make her feel bad.
-she doesnt really know what she wants but wants to leave the door open for you to "fight" for her "win her back" etc
again, i would never claim to have any idea why someone would do something, but these are some themes running through my head when I consider your situation.
what do you want?


Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 3:43 PM, July 1st (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

eh...

just 2 cents from a BM/MH/WH;

shefound her soulmate

let her go to him. detach. for your own sanity. and for hers. if she is confused about the decision to D or try R; insist she sees an IC (maybe start with yours for joint sessions-not MC but couples counseling and then let her move on to another IC on her own) before any MC and insist on her NC with her "soulmate" and that she institutes transparency (passwords, phones, emails, phone bills, FB, cc bills, emotional, etc...).

as a MH, it doesnt mean you disqualify yourself being the BS as well. if you're being transparent/NC and working on your issues (going to IC), its not too much to ask for the same. IMHO, you wont find it reciprocated and that should be answer enough for you (I hope and pray for your M and kids that it IS reciprocated, but I fear it wont be). D might then be best for you both and may lead to a healthy dynamic for your kids.

look over at the BM thread down in ICR; it should help you immensely from a certain perspective. one thing you have TO KNOW is that you WILL find out early on (within 6 weeks or so) that your WW is going to be remorseless or show remorse; look at her ACTIONS and not her words. If her actions are consistent towards R, your healing, working on her issues and then on the M, you've got a keeper... fWWs are golden as can be seen on this site....TT can be excused as the first response from a WS but if it carries on for anything over a month... or if she is still pining for her "soulmate" your best bet is to let her go. file and keep working on yourself. VERY IMPORTANT. discuss your plans with your IC and see if he/she agrees. write her a letter or as many times as you wish about your work through being the WS. but do not engage (after this 6 weeks or so) on trying to get anything from her to heal yourself.

thats just me, I wish I had the benefit of hindsight on my DDays to know the shitstorm I was entering. 3 years on and she is not in the least bit showing remorse. regret and shame... yes, but nothing towards me; other than her lies, PA abuse and EU.

I have "no right" to complain... right? being a MH. well, thats what kept me with someone who is callous and disrespectful and insincere. maybe she has a right to be. whatever, but i am now learning to detach. its been the single most productive thing i have done in 3 years awful punishment and pain. MC is worth nothing if the WS (on both sides for us MHs) doesnt start working on their issues - IC, books, forums etc... There is no point MCing with someone who is broken and refuses to see it or work to fix it.

sorry, I am a bit ranty, so I'll tune out. best of luck to you cuppa, spidey and eh. thanks tg as always.


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