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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 1:41 AM, June 14th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ashamed, I know that feeling. For a while there I was torturing myself every night by looking through the phone records. Every time I'd notice something different and it'd tear my heart into even smaller pieces.

As far as insecurities vs intuition, I had the same "there's something more" feeling. Everyone kept telling me he'd taken the A underground but I didn't believe it and kept trying to convince myself it was just insecurity. It turned out, I was wrong but so was everyone else. He hadn't taken the A underground, but he was using pornography and masturbating in order to avoid intimacy with me. After finding that out, I felt sure I knew everything, and I still do a couple of weeks later. I guess my point is there is likely *something* you don't know, but it may not be what you think.

Cuppa, I'd be pissed too about the phone number...and I hate to bring it up but I'd also question if he hadn't gone underground and was using a different phone to call her, thus the reason he had it saved in his phone but you don't see it on the phone logs.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 2:44 AM, June 15th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry, I've been away a bit from MH. Hope you all are inching/sprinting towards some healing.

I have had a thought throughout which I wanted to share particular to MH situations where we might be struggling with remorseless spouses. I feel the reason W doesn't want to put in any work on fixing her shit and wants to rugsweep is primarily driven by her perception that we're "even" so now lets work on the M. It probably feeds well into her avoidant attitude and her shame.

Anyone else get that vibe? Is it 'fair' or even safe considering that none of the A related stuff gets resolved or healed in any meaningful way. Could it *possibly* be a path to R for MHs?

Just putting it out there for some insight and thoughts...


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 2:47 AM, June 15th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry to see the new posters here, you're in good hands with TG and the rest. Anyone hear from eh?


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:28 AM, June 15th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel the reason W doesn't want to put in any work on fixing her shit and wants to rugsweep is primarily driven by her perception that we're "even" so now lets work on the M. It probably feeds well into her avoidant attitude and her shame.

Anyone else get that vibe? Is it 'fair' or even safe considering that none of the A related stuff gets resolved or healed in any meaningful way. Could it *possibly* be a path to R for MHs?

yep and no, nothing is resolved or healed if that's the mentality, IMO..


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3663 | Registered: Dec 2010
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, June 16th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I survived the party. She was not there but other people talked about her constantly. I triggered a few times. The husband saw it in me and tried to comfort me as much as he could.

I kept freaking out when cars rolled up to see if it was her. I am so glad she wasn't there.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 3:44 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks, Cuppa. Glad you survived the party. How is everything else going?

I have had a thought throughout which I wanted to share particular to MH situations where we might be struggling with remorseless spouses. I feel the reason W doesn't want to put in any work on fixing her shit and wants to rugsweep is primarily driven by her perception that we're "even" so now lets work on the M. It probably feeds well into her avoidant attitude and her shame.

Anyone else get that vibe? Is it 'fair' or even safe considering that none of the A related stuff gets resolved or healed in any meaningful way. Could it *possibly* be a path to R for MHs?

I don't think so either, sorry NE

How are the rest of you doing? EH, what's up with you?

ETA: I am doing much better since my last posts. Mr Grapefruit is very sorry he was out of contact and I believe he just didn't think. We're in a better place now

[This message edited by grapefruit at 3:45 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 5:44 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It is with sadness i read these posts. Even the not so bad ones.
Have not seen nor heard from my wife. Ive only had some time on the phone with my oldest. Her grandad called me.
.....not much else.
My hand hurts.

[This message edited by exhaustedheader at 5:48 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:38 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Glad you're in a better place grape and happy about your surviving the party cuppa.

Eh, hang in there, sorry about your hand. Use this time to keep working on yourself, did you get a chance to talk to your IC? And lawyering up for your kids' futures might not be a bad idea, just get your ducks in a row KWIM? Not saying you can't work on R but at the moment you just don't know.

Cuppa, can't you just avoid/place some barriers to avoid such situations? It will only come through mutual respect.

The more I read, the more I am convinced that the worst position to be in is the one WORKING in a MH situation while your spouse is remorseless. I'll bet this is subjective; I know it's all a shit sandwich. When you're the WS, and you have remorse, you work to heal yourself and the M and your BS has every right to extract penance. If you're the BS with a remorseful spouse, then you can stay and help in the healing and no one will hold it against you if you call it quits either. As a remorseful MH, you cannot have it either way. There is no healing the M or your BS (because of their own WS issues), there is not always an option to call it quits since who are you to decide when you screwed up too and there is no allowance to process stuff as a pure BS either since you're tainted and broken yourself (pot, kettle, black, KWIM?).

Not meant as a vent or a "poor us" post, just wondering what all if you all have as an angle on this...

[This message edited by noescape at 6:39 AM, June 17th (Monday)]


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 8:53 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Tried to avoid going all day on Saturday . We had made plans to go before d day. I had never met his work friends and I had been excited to go. I didn't realize how much his one friend would talk about her as she hasn't worked with them in 6 months. They had talked about the two co workers dating and having sex at work where is where he had Alex with her. At that point it was time to go so I went to the car to breathe.

Last night he was going to get a fountain pop from the gas station and I felt like he was leaving to get away from us. He left his phone so I didn't think anything was going on and I made a rude comment and he invited me along instead. He used to make excuses to leave and call her. It felt nice .


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
Ashamed14
♀ New Member
Member # 38240
Default  Posted: 10:15 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and there is no allowance to process stuff as a pure BS either since you're tainted and broken yourself (pot, kettle, black, KWIM?).

I can completely relate to this. Since I was the first WS, I processed all my baggage last year in MC while my husband was cheating. Even now after I discovered his A, he is having difficulties forgiving me. I know I can forgive him and am well on my way to that because of the pot/black issue. But sometimes I feel like I need to show him my pain/insecurities just so he will not rug sweep. Make any sense?


MHW-42
STBX-MHH-41
Married 15 yrs.
2 children

Mine DD - 6/2012
His DD - 5/2013


Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:29 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a remorseful MH, you cannot have it either way. There is no healing the M or your BS (because of their own WS issues), there is not always an option to call it quits since who are you to decide when you screwed up too and there is no allowance to process stuff as a pure BS either since you're tainted and broken yourself (pot, kettle, black, KWIM?).

Noescape,

I see that in this situation, it may be harder to process things as a BS because you don't have a spouse that is there validating your pain and helping you through it. In that situation, personally, I would have left. I would seek IC to help me through the worst of it and move forward. Had Hlessons not been every bit of what he has this past year, I would have been out the door. It wasn't about my rights, it was about knowing my boundaries. I knew what I needed in the relationship going forward. And if I wasn't going to get it, there was no need to stay.

I know you have kids, and so the decision is more difficult. I also made decisions early on in our M to stay even though I knew what was happening. If I could go back, I would make different decisions. I would lay things out in the open for him and we would either make changes or things would be over. I wouldn't compromise myself to stay in a marriage ever again. It changes who you are. And not for the good. Anyway, JMHO. Take it for what it is. You don't need her to validate your pain. It is what it is.

Cup,

Continue to watch your H's actions and be very careful. Don't jump in to quickly because you need R to happen. You can be in the home with him and he can be showing you what you need to see and you don't have to be in R. Make him work for this. He blew it up.

Grapefruit,

I am glad to hear you are in a better place. It seems you are struggling with some aspects of this. What are you having the hardest time with?

Eh,

I thought your Wife was coming home? What happened?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She had told me she wanted to but wont.
Ive not tried to contact her. Sorry so short. Just not into much now.
I know posters dont know me, but reading here sure helps me. Dont know bout the rest of you folks.
...

Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 4:22 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like when I cheated 6 years ago we never addressed the issues. We just ignored it and moved on. This time around we are actually talking about what is happening and what we are feeling.

I just still don't get what the hell happened to us. I really don't. Like the stuff that comes out his mouth about her just floors me.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 6:15 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thank you TG, dont need validating of pain from her, just been trying/hoping (futile, I know) to have a safe M. (safe=start of remorse & end of deceit) I'm old enough and ugly enough to take these knocks (if I made it this far after my DDays and TT days which were completely devastating)...

I wouldn't compromise myself to stay in a marriage ever again. It changes who you are. And not for the good.

I heed that warning only too well. Dont we know it? My A's werent RA's though I can see the mindworm where that might lead to. Its taken me this long (just over a year on SI) to come to terms with this recognition. Throw in one pregnancy and a 4th child and 2 years of MC, IC, recovery courses, TT, lies, joblessness and hope... well, I'm just over the 3 year mark and starting to see myself as the problem, not my W. She has been showing me all along WHO she is, I just refused to see it.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 7:32 PM, June 17th (Monday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't like the term RA. Never have. I feel that takes the responsibility away from what the person is doing. An A is an A is an A. Of course at the time I made my decision I thought it was all about him, I came to realize later it was all about me. My choices, my poor coping skills, everything I had done. While it took me a little bit of time to come to that realization, I now fully realize how poor my choices for my own life had been for quite awhile. Changing how I process things and myself has allowed me to let go of people around me and only take responsibility for me and my choices. While it felt much harder this way in the beginning, this way is so much easier.

My decision that night was one of the most destructive if not the most destructive things I could have done, and it wasn't about our M. It was all on me. I am glad I know better now.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 1:31 PM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all - I'd taken a break from the thread but thought I'd pop in and give an update. WH and I have been in full rugsweeping mode the last couple of weeks (I can say we were busy with external family things...which is true but...). I tried to bring the topic last night when he made a move that seemed like a 'let's communicate' move. It was...until the topic of OW came up (how are you feeling about things?). Immediate convo shut down. Of course I guess there was also the trigger on Friday where his response to my trigger was basically, 'I guess you'll never get over this and we probably can't be together'. (The trigger was that his international cell phone - 2nd phone - was showing up as on AT&T's network - even though in his home country it's not an AT&T phone. It appears that it was not used for calling OW but I'm being watchful)

But the real reason for the post is that this morning I finally made an appointment for an IC session on Friday. I specifically looked for people with 15+ years experience and found a small practice that, at least based upon their website / blog, has a viewpoint that speaks to me (and they mention 'gently challenging' people - which I need). So, here's hoping it goes well.

I apologize for the selfish post - I think part of me is hoping that by sort of announcing the session I hold myself accountable to participating with an open outlook.

On the docket - commitment issues, co-dependency, commitment issues, and commitment issues. (that is commitment to life...not just to another person).

Thx for listening. I hope one day to be able to provide support to others as you have done for me.

[This message edited by JustAShadow at 1:45 PM, June 18th (Tuesday)]


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 5:05 PM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TG: I keep struggling with the same things, and I'm not sure how to get past them. I struggle with the fact that it was so calculated - he sought it out every time and was so desperate to find someone to cheat on me with. I struggle with the fact that he was doing all this stuff while I was having our baby, and he went back to it as soon as he went back to work, while I was having a really rough time at home. I struggle with the fact that I had NO idea - he didn't seem distant or unsupportive. I struggle with the fact that he'd slept with so many prostitutes before we got married, and I now feel like our whole marriage was a fraud, and indeed our whole relationship. He is terrified that I won't get past this stuff and that I'll leave. I don't feel like I want to leave - we are both putting in the hard yards for our M - but I don't know how to make peace with it. Maybe it's too soon.

I also feel like I'm not focusing on my stuff when I am hung up on his stuff. Like I think his stuff is worse and more unforgivable. I do sort of feel that - I know that's wrong, and doesn't help anything. I'll discuss all this with my IC today.

Just - nice to hear an update from you. Great that you've found an IC. Good luck with the first appointment, and let us know how it goes.

EH - what do you want at this point? Do you want to fight for your M? Can you write down how you're feeling and send it to her?


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
Spideysense
♀ Member
Member # 39591
Default  Posted: 5:16 PM, June 18th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I dont know if im in the right place or not...feel free to send me in the right direction if not...so here's my story i guess...i was the WW first-in total there were 2 PA 1 EA, the last PA was also EA and it lasted for years. My BH found out. I was devastated, i wanted to save my M, i went to IC, I thought we were trying to fix it. About a month ago I witnessed him doing highly inappropriate behavior, then as a result of that discovered he had been talking to trying to meet up with a different girl for the last three weeks, this was confirmed by conversation with said girl. I was devastated, could not imagine that he would intentionally put me through the same pain during a time when we were trying to heal. He didnt come home for the first couple nights because he didnt want to talk to me about it, when he finally did, ended up leaving me to go see her to "apologize" I am struggling, he thinks that I should be over it, that what I did was worse, longer, etc. That he did nothing compared to what I did. I admit I stalked the girl needed to see who she was etc. he said this is because i dont want to heal. One of his stories didn't add up, just told me that he went to see her the night he came home after lying to me about that fact even when i asked him multiple times if thats where he went. He is going back and forth between I'm such a whore for doing what I did and that he loves me and only wants me....im so confused, anywone have any words of wisdom?

Posts: 72 | Registered: Jun 2013
exhaustedheader
♂ Member
Member # 39459
Default  Posted: 3:35 PM, June 19th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well.
She came home this morning.
Im now out of the house.
Her father contacted me today nd told me she was seeing a guy in albuquerque while she was there.
OM was invited to go see her.
He did. And they did.
FIL tells me she stayed overnite this last weekend at his place.
Thats enough for me.
Im done.
Since i knew that telling her of my affairs would end this, i was ready.
Sort of.
Shocked, i am, at how fast she seems to have moved on here. Im thinking this has been going on longer than i read in emails...
My girls are with my folks and will be for the summer...their request.
Good thing too. Our arguement was one for the record book.
Blame , finger pointing,
She even smacked me.
Got told its my fault for her cheating.
Drove her too it.
Claims shes known for years about at least one affair of mine, but info i have proves otherwise, not that it matters.
It doesnt.
Im lawyering up rite now.
Her om is a little turd fromcolumbia.
Im not having my kids raised by this sht-hed.
Fck him. And her.

And yes, me too.


Posts: 103 | Registered: Jun 2013 | From: exhaustedheader
JustAShadow
♀ Member
Member # 38370
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, June 19th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Spidey,

Smarter people than me will come along but it sounds like you are in the right place. I'm sorry that you do have to find yourself here.

The healing library (the link is in the yellow box on the left). Then look for the FAQs (BS FAQ, WS FAQ, etc). As you read over the boards you'll find a lot of those same topics (from the FAQs) come up - that's why they are such a great core knowledge base. In the Healing Library you can also find a link to ABBREVIATIONS which can be very helpful as you are reading posts.

One thing that comes up in the MH only thread is that the affair(s) that each person in the relationship had (your H and you) should not be compared. The pain caused by each should not be compared.

Another is that, as a MH, we can often learn more by putting on our wayward hats and working on those issues. I, myself, have not yet progressed significantly in that area. I'm still clinging to the betrayed side of the equation (add that to my list for IC on Friday...)


Read. Read. Read. (the faqs, the boards, and books). Eat. Drink Water. Exercise. Take care of you.

We each made our own choices to have affairs. That includes your H. He chose to have an affair. He doesn't get to blame his choice to do that on you.


Do you have the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass? It's highly recommended.

And post. Vent here if need be.

We 40,000 SI'ers are here to help. Sorry that you find yourself here.


ME: 41 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 1997, 2003
Him: 35 - Madhatter, 2 PAs, 2004, 3/2012 - 3/2014
Status: Living Apart

Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2013
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