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User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 12:37 AM, May 26th (Sunday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Dup post

[This message edited by ophelia24 at 12:38 AM, May 26th (Sunday)]


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 3:54 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

How are you doing, cuppa? What are you doing to take care of yourself right now?

More sage advice from TG - thanks for that :)

Ophelia, I can relate to something going on for the entire length of your marriage. Thinking of you.

I'm having a rough time at the moment. I posted over in the R forum about finding out today when my H first cheated. He went to a therapy session and managed to narrow down the year ... I'd been asking him for ages, and now he suddenly remembers? I find it strange. And it felt like a huge blow, for some reason.

Then my baby would NOT settle tonight and I'm just feeling so frustrated and low :(


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 7:24 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Grapefruit. Im wondering if perhaps your H needed that time set aside with the IC to concentrate fully on that time in the past, as perhaps his motivation for 'remembering' may have been low.

As for you feeling low, its not surprising really as it takes you back as you said in your post in R to that time and what was going on. It must feel like you have to revise a part of your life. And obviously with a baby, that's a lot of emotional hurt being dragged up.

Take care of yourself.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 7:26 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Also wanted to add that its great your H is in therapy,and this could be a big part of the reason for him making it a priority to delve into past A. Just some initial thoughts.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 8:58 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yesterday was a rough day. I just hate these emotions. I'm back and forth on my thoughts about all of this all day long. My stomach hurts all day. Then I do some stuff like looking her up on fb. Then I go look up the phone records. Damn iphone. last night all I could think about while in bed with DH is her. blah!!!!!


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:39 AM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

cup,

Are you in any kind of IC right now where you can talk about some of these feelings? And is your H remorseful?

grapefruit,

I am sorry you received information that was hurtful, I know how that goes. However, it will in the long run allow you to fully heal now that you hopefully have the whole picture. How are you guys doing overall?

Ophelia,

Does your H give you a chance to talk about your feelings at all? Sorry to see you down here in madhatters, but welcome


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 2:16 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I am not in IC. The husband is. I probably should go but I'm afraid.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 2:22 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What are you afraid of?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 2:50 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

That I won't like myself. What if I am a really horrible person?

I put on a good front I think. I"m trustworthy. I"m passionate. I'm a good mom. I'm a good wife. But what if that's not true. What if I just suck at life?

I did a total 180 since my mistake. But what did it get me? a WH. He got close to a woman right after I had our 6th baby. Shoot he called her while I was at the hospital after having the baby. He was messing around with a 22 year old with little boobs and no really adult life other than trying to steal away my husband.

What if I'm not as good as I think i am?


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
grapefruit
♀ Member
Member # 27090
Default  Posted: 4:52 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks so much for your thoughts, Ophelia.

Im wondering if perhaps your H needed that time set aside with the IC to concentrate fully on that time in the past, as perhaps his motivation for 'remembering' may have been low.

Quite possibly true. Although I have told him before that the one thing I needed was details on the timeframe. Anyway, you're right, it's great that he's in therapy (I wouldn't have reconciled with him without it, frankly) and he is finding it difficult and uncomfortable to talk about all this stuff. I think he finds it easier not to think about it, which is of course what he's been used to doing for years and years - just compartmentalising it and not having to think about it.

Cuppa, that sounds like a good place to start with IC - acknowledging those feelings. Personally, I've had to let go of thinking I'm a 'good person' - I know I've been that at some points of my life; at other times, I've been awfully selfish.

I did a total 180 since my mistake. But what did it get me? a WH.

What you're dealing with is awful. But you have to be a better person for YOU. The learning you have hopefully done since your waywardness - that's for you. Your WH's behaviour is his to own. I hope that makes some sense.

TG - thanks for asking. We're doing surprisingly well. We are both in IC, and going to MC as well. Our MC is excellent. We are communicating better than we have in years. Both of us are owning our stuff, neither of us are trying to rugsweep. It's painful, but worth it.


FWW / BS (me)
FWH / BS (him)
In R ...

Posts: 85 | Registered: Jan 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 6:06 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cup,

You are not a horrible person, big hugs to you. As I am sure you remember from your own experience, what he did was about his own brokenness, not you. Get into some IC so you can explore where these feelings are coming from and you can learn to be ok with you again. When this happens it knocks us off center and we need to find it again. I had to and I had to go back to IC again.

Grapefruit,

So glad to hear you guys are doing good.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks friends. I am like a rollercoaster of emotions. The husband got pissed at me because I called his "friend" some nasty names. They were close friends that got too close. Then after they ended the PA part they tried to be friends. I apologized. I just told him that I love him and I don't want to be angry at him (even though I am!) and it's easier to call her names. I know that she did not like me because of the crap he fed her about me. Not that it matters how she felt about me but I know she didn't know his crap behavior in this marriage.

Also I'm afraid that we are just trying to hard right now and what happens when we aren't doing nice things for each other or wanting to spend time together. What if that bubble bursts?


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:57 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have to wade in so here goes. A few rambling thoughts;

First, in response to you TG, there is not much to do about the M. I won't go into what I need from WW/BW because its for her to own. What I can see is that *I* can't do much for the M when there is no 'us' in it. What I do need to do is for me. Early in the false R process, I tried being that great H and fixing everything I could that was broken in the M because of me. I found it to be futile when dealing with changing goal posts and not knowing the other side of the equation.

Second, as a MH, I feel a certain disconnect with others here because when I had my PA, I wasn't aware of my Ws As from years ago. So it wasn't a RA sort of situation. That is primarily why, when my DDays happened, I was completely blindsided. I also felt I had no right to be hurt because of what I had done. My W didn't make attempts at R any better since she: a) still justified(s?) her As on the crappiness of the M and b) "now we're even" kind of attitude, "so why should you be hurt?/ why should I care for your pain?".

Third, I have recognised that my biggest issue pre-m was seeking validation through sex/sexuality and also my SA. What I learned is that my acting out (porn, chat, CA) was a ritual which fed my SA and had little to do with the actual sexual acts. Which is why the AP in my PA had little or no meaning to me as a person. Sick, I know, to risk my M, my kids future and to hurt my W in such a way over nothing more than a cheap addiction.

I never felt I had low self esteem, but what I recognised is that because of my physical disability, my general inferiority complex about my ethnicity and social status and finally, my apparent need to exert control/my 'manliness' through sexuality (some FOO conditioning there), I was acting out in a manner which was against my morals (with the regular justifications of course) to validate my worth to myself.

I know I don't need these reinforcements of validation because I am defined by much more than just my sexual needs and relationships borne out of that. I also recognise that there are things/people more important to me than a few of my selfish needs. Getting healthy for me is to keep ensuring I account and hold up my boundaries and even if the M is literally non existent other than 'surface' issues , it doesn't give me any less cause to enforce the boundaries regardless ( though transparency is a huge issue due to lack of communication). I have found MC to be futile when either spouse is unwilling to work on owning their shit, so, no, we can't solve communication issues right now through MC. W has been through 3 different ICs with little to no success, And not many options here where we live. Leaving that aside, I do not believe IC is of much use when she is in denial about owning her shit.

Back to me, so to be a healthier me, after the AR course, I recognised that lapse is the normal cycle in addiction recovery and the best thing is to own up/ be accountable to someone and to keep reinforcing the boundaries. What needs to be avoided is shame and then the justifications that normally follow.

What is the point of all this? I guess I need more ideas on where to go from here and on being healthy, I know there is nothing I can make WW do right now to take any interest in her own healing and in working together as a team in R. I wouldn't want to work on R with her anyway due to her dry adulterer state. Too many false Rs in the first year taught me that this is pain I am not willing to endure any longer.

Oh, I also found that I had a lot of coda tendancies which bounce off neatly against my Ws PA nature. I've got codep no more on my reading list, yet to finish it.

Between here and the BM boards, I feel there may be a place of healing I can get to while still being M. Who knows, when I'm healthy enough, I might no longer have this attachment bond that is eating away at me...

/end rambling thoughts


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 8:24 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Does your H give you a chance to talk about your feelings at all? Sorry to see you down here in madhatters, but welcome

Thanks for asking TG. We have always been MH. When I first came to SI I originally put a post up on general I think asking members if I had valid reasons to be hurt at my H's on going "friendship" with his ex gf, and it was comforting to be told I wasn't crazy. I then began to write more about my A's and SI encouragement led me to confessing old A's going back to when my H and I first met (I had only confessed to one A 7 years ago).

My H and I have had discussions about his EA, and he only recently began to realise it wasn't Ok and had kept her in his heart our entire marriage, thus taking something from ours. That was painful to read his last fb message to her expressing this and why they could no longer be friends. As he was also going through the pain of my recent confessions (one ONS being with his BFF 21 years ago) his last message to his ex gf was more mean't for me. And it hurt a lot.

I have felt low the last couple of days as my H mentioned the other night (after seeing a friends bday message pop up on fb) that he hadn't even remembered his ex gf's birthday. This is a sore point for me as my H actually forgot my 40th birthday until I was heading off to work at 5pm and he saw flowers for me. OTOH he had written a page long tribute to his ex gf in his journal a few years ago acknowledging her 40th. It was only last year that the pain of that hit me, as it made me realise how unplugged he was from me, and yet how plugged into her he was. This is the man who finds it hard to remember his own mothers birthday.

When I expressed a lack of excitement in him being so good as to not remember her birthday, in fact, all it did was remind me of my hurt, he dismissed me and just said "I thought you would be glad I didn't think of her". Well yeah, cool, good for you. But there was no acknowledgement either of my hurt. I tried to bring it up the next day but he said he didn't want to talk about it as he was home only for lunch.

So, I just go into myself and keep it down and feel confused at my hurt, feel undeserving of it, compared to what I did and what he now knows. And then I wonder if I am making a big deal of it as to avoid my own work on my whys as to what I've done. And I feel disappointed at myself in my inability to communicate effectively to him how much that hurt, as I am afraid of his dismissive response hurting more.

And perhaps also because we are hitting a flat spot after all the excitement (for want of a better word) of my confessions, timeline, crying, HB, etc that I am feeling flat. As in "what next"? "Where to from here"? kind of thing. Its a real juggle this MH business.

So today, on our 20th anniversary, I feel very flat and half-hearted and feel little to celebrate. Of course this could change tomorrow, but today that is how it is.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
ophelia24
♀ Member
Member # 38438
Default  Posted: 8:25 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Jeez we needy aye TG? lol.


“Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up.”
― James Baldwin

Posts: 241 | Registered: Feb 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:33 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok, one by one, lol

cup,

Am I reading this correctly in that they are still friends? Your H and the person that he had an affair with? And if you are calling her names and he is getting pissed at you, he needs to rethink this, his loyalty lies with you and not with her. Period!!

You are worried that the honeymoon period will be over and then what happens is what I am hearing. First off you need to make sure that you have a remorseful H on your hands.

noescape,

It sounds like you have done a lot of work in the time that you have been away. Kudos for that. I see that you seem to have a fairly good idea of what is going on with you, but are not quite ready to let go of the M yet. Is that about right? If that is the case, then I think you are on the right track for continuing to work your issues until you get to a point where you are ok with walking. Have you told your W that this is what will be the final outcome if she doesn't get her shit together?

Ophelia,

How open is your H to talking? From what I am hearing it doesn't sound like he is. Is he someone who is typically closed off to his feelings, or has the communication between the two of you always been bad? At some point there has to be a time where your feelings are dealt with as well.

Your right, juggling the MH stuff is hard, how do I separate out my feelings? That is where you have to get real clear about who is responsible for what. If you are sad because of a trigger, you are sad, acknowledge it, allow it, do not force it away because of your own actions towards him. That is the behavior that got you into this mess. If you cannot talk to him, talk to a friend, come here and unload it, but get it OUT.

And I do believe that coming up with some form of communication, maybe not about this, between you and your H would be good.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
Uneek
♀ Member
Member # 38416
Default  Posted: 9:38 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ophelia, we're definitely in that "well now what?" stage. It's very, very up and down. Saturday was a shitty, shitty day for me and I ended up doing some things that I never should have done (sending contact to OW whilst pretending to be H - not my finest moment, to be sure). But then we have a day like yesterday that is awesome and wonderful....I don't like roller coasters at an amusement park much, so you can guess how I feel about the fact that my life has become one.

Cuppa, I feel you on the up and down and phone records. I've looked at them a million times. Why do I torture myself by looking again and again?! I swear, I'm obsessing about her more now than H ever did (see above re: stupid decision to contact her as H).

Last week, it stung hard when our MC told me that H processes much faster without me in the room. I don't know why, but that cut me so bad - like I'm impeding his progress or something.

We have MC on Sunday, first time in a few weeks that we'll be there together. I have very few expectations...I guess that's good? Seems like when I go in with expectations I leave disappointed or out of sorts.

Anyway, just wanted to tell you all that I know how you feel.


Posts: 114 | Registered: Feb 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 10:02 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Oh no they are not friends now. As of D-day I made him call her and end their friendship. They slept together in November and then tried to be friends after that. Then when he started breaking down from the stress of the lie she told him she couldn't deal with his problems. They were still talking via text up until d day. He has not heard from her since. They work for the same company but no longer at the same location.

I think he views her as a good person still. I told him if she was really such a good person she wouldn't have had sex with him and cheated on her bf.

We deleted her from his phone and he deactivated his fb.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
cuppacoffee
♀ Member
Member # 39313
Default  Posted: 10:05 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

and I do think he's remorseful about it. He said he knew it was a mistake after they slept together the first time. but then did it again to make sure. WTH?

He knows he made a huge mistake. I just don't think he realized it until he started going to IC and now he's been honest there too. The therapist now has something to work on with him.


but yes it's like i'm waiting for the honeymoon to be over.

this sucks.


I'm like a vacuum bag
That holds all that old dirt
Remember that time we said we'd be together forever?
Don't hate me, don't regret me, don't ever forget me
Wherever you go, whatever you do, don't say I never loved you

Posts: 345 | Registered: May 2013
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:33 PM, May 28th (Tuesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I can't tell you how many times I said "this sucks" in the past year. I can tell you, the number has decreased.

The honeymoon period did come to an end, although I don't know that I ever really was in one after I busted Hlessons.

You will settle into more of a reality, things will be up and down a little less frequently as time goes on. But there are other things to deal with as well. The best thing I can tell you to do cup is to start working on healing yourself, get into IC, focus on you, do what you need to do for you, take time for yourself. Do not put all of your time and energy into him. Let him carry this thing.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
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