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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
CheshCat
♀ Member
Member # 27546
Default  Posted: 11:52 PM, February 27th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

TiredGirl

Chesh Cat, let me get this straight, are you saying that part of the reason my BS went out and did this was because of what I did first?

I was responding to 2es Question:

... I had the A first so I deserve what I got mantra. We are in mc, round 2 is tomorrow. My question, when you are the 1st WW does the other spouse generally believe they were justified in their A. Or do they ever come around and realize exactly how they betrayed also? I can't even get an I'm sorry.


I wasn't saying its right.

I was describing common responses / justifications. Some come around to realizing how wrong they are, some have a foot out the door. Not all Madhatter A's are revenge affairs.... Of the splash I listed above, only 1 is direct revenge... But I think its fair to say that most (if not nearly all) MHs believe they were justified in the beginning.

Again.

Not saying causal.

Just saying most BELIEVE they are justified at the time. Those justifications vary person to person. KWIM?

CC


"Another conversation killed awkwardly! Yes! Point to my side." - Chesh's Brother

Moi : BS MH 30mumble
Him : WS Abuse Adultery Addict Six-figure Sociopath = Aaass
... I picked a winner!
DDay - 2006 ad naseam
Divorced! 2013


Posts: 571 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: West Coast US
CheshCat
♀ Member
Member # 27546
Default  Posted: 12:05 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Uncertainone

that mess of a list are not RESPONSES to anything. They're reactions using the same toxic thought processes and coping skills we know don't fucking work.

Yup.

Like I said... They're justifications/rationalizations/ some ways that BSs think/ to justify their As.

Response/reaction

In response to
In reaction to

Meaning the same thing.

A response can be totally out of line and beyond the pall. An unjust response. An ill reasoned response. A hasty response. A sick response. Responding negatively. Responding out of anger. An ignorant response. A cruel response. Responding harshly. A crushing response.

Response usually means a person took time to think (not always), but that doesn't mean it was healthy thinking!!!

Just wanted to clear things up :)

CC

[This message edited by CheshCat at 12:20 AM, February 28th (Thursday)]


"Another conversation killed awkwardly! Yes! Point to my side." - Chesh's Brother

Moi : BS MH 30mumble
Him : WS Abuse Adultery Addict Six-figure Sociopath = Aaass
... I picked a winner!
DDay - 2006 ad naseam
Divorced! 2013


Posts: 571 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: West Coast US
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 12:29 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Responding and reacting is not the same thing.

Yes, you can respond poorly if you have toxic thought processes and coping skills. It is, however, a different thing than a reaction which is usually knee jerk and visceral.

As far as your clarification, the problem with it was your post indicated that the entire mess was in response to the affair.

No. It. Isn't. If someone cheats in not in response to anything other than the choices made by the cheater. I don't care if you're a WS...BS that becomes WS, madhatter, partridge in a pear tree.

The choice to cheat is a stand alone. It's not caused by someone else. It isn't because of someone else.

You see that repeated so many times in JFO, and general. It has NOTHING to do with the spouse/partner.

Now the spouse or partner can be a grade a asshole and some are, not doubt. The environment of the marriage can be absolutely ruined by one person. Addict, abuser, selfish, neglectful, whatever. They can be a saint. It honestly doesn't matter.

The choice to cheat ALWAYS falls on the cheater. An affair is not a response. It's a series of choices that starts with thoughts that are nurtured and built on until they're acted on.

The tought processes are there and have been used in many other ways with less destruction but they're lying in wait. Unless found and fixed or evicted that choice is always just a heartbeat away.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
CheshCat
♀ Member
Member # 27546
Default  Posted: 12:51 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

boy can it ever...right along with the insufferable self righteous snow flakes that claim they're on it.
Funny thing about them...as you read more they keep revealing their "special" reasons for their shitty choices...pain, rejection, blame, blah blah blah it starts to look like what it is. Same entitled bullshit.

Beg pardon?

1) Feeling like I need to not be on the moral high ground wasnt part of my story. But it WAS the justification of many BSMHs I know. Some a good several decades into R. Some divorced. That it wasnt one of your justifications, great. I'm sure yours were "better" than theirs. Or that while having your A you were COMPLETELY clear headed and rational and had none at all.

2) If you're referencing, or attempting to reference, my "thinking" that being beaten half dead means its just FINE to break my vow & have an affair
a- I don't
b- I didn't ... My hat came YEARS before my ex turned physically violent
c- My response to getting my bones broken was to file for divorce.
d- I haven't been on here for a few years. I think 3 years with the same 'about me' section (and, you know, new ddays/ physical assaults/ changing from Reconciling to Divorcing) MIGHT warrant a status update. Just maybe.

I'm sure, COUNTLESS other times various justifications were discussed (my personal fav "he was at sea level, and we live in the mountains... How can a man be expected to control himself at sea level???")... That those posters need a good high horse flaming for daring to bring up justifications. Get out the torch! Burn baby burn. Go give em one in the chin.

What the heck?

CC


"Another conversation killed awkwardly! Yes! Point to my side." - Chesh's Brother

Moi : BS MH 30mumble
Him : WS Abuse Adultery Addict Six-figure Sociopath = Aaass
... I picked a winner!
DDay - 2006 ad naseam
Divorced! 2013


Posts: 571 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: West Coast US
uncertainone
♀ Member
Member # 28108
Default  Posted: 1:02 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't say you were on the moral high ground, Chesh. My comment was about those that are coupled with a healthy dose of self righteousness as they merrily go about using the same thought processes they condemn.

Since you haven't been on here in three years and don't know my story I'm not sure where you're ire is coming from.

I've never shied away from owning my shit.

Oh, I'm all too familiar with being treated like a piñata. Forgetting beer earned me a trip to the ER so don't have any idea what that part had to do with all this shit.

Several posters got the same read from your initial post.


Me: 37

'til the roof comes off. 'til the lights go out. 'til my legs give out, can't shut my mouth


Posts: 6795 | Registered: Mar 2010
CheshCat
♀ Member
Member # 27546
Default  Posted: 1:16 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I didn't say you were on the moral high ground, Chesh. My comment was about those that are coupled with a healthy dose of self righteousness as they merrily go about using the same thought processes they condemn.

Then I totally apologize for my rant.

Partly my own fault, anyway... Took me a bit to figure out how to quote on my phone... And the first person who responded looks like didn't see it was a direct response to a question about what BSMHs believe/ justifications.

That or talking about justifications & sick thinking has become taboo in my absence.

CC


"Another conversation killed awkwardly! Yes! Point to my side." - Chesh's Brother

Moi : BS MH 30mumble
Him : WS Abuse Adultery Addict Six-figure Sociopath = Aaass
... I picked a winner!
DDay - 2006 ad naseam
Divorced! 2013


Posts: 571 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: West Coast US
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:19 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The problem with your list is it takes the responsibility off of the cheater. Where it belongs, doesn't matter if it is a madhatter situation or not. You chose to cheat, the problem lies with you. You chose to react, not respond.

I am not sure if you were trying to get 2e to understand where her H was coming from or what? But the bottom line is, her H is coming from an unhealthy place right now and she needs to focus on her healing and not try to understand the mental gymnastics that are going on his head.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
2edgesword
♀ New Member
Member # 38486
Default  Posted: 2:57 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow... didn't mean to start a fued y'all...I can see and appreciate both sides of the justification/ response list. As H has used it to his absolution for his A. He will always hold my A over my head as an excuse for him to have his.when my A went down he was full of and hurt, just lashing out at me in anterior several months. I was diagnosed with uterine cancer a couple months after my A was discovered. He blamed me for having cancer. I was the blame of everything to no end.I was deep in the fog no way out it felt. I was not emotionally capable to support his healing, healing just reacted defensively. I put up a wall and pushed him away. I was not supportive and loving. I knew I hurt him immensely but I didn't know how to really be there for him.when he assessors divorce back in Sept. The fog started to lift. I realized I didn't want a divorce but he had already started seeing the OP and was high on his A. He lied and sneaked just as I had until I busted him. I could busted him a couple months sooner but I was too scared and still coming out of my own fog.I begged him to stay and for the past month he has. There is some hope maybe just a glimmer of what could be great but it is still there. I just gotta disreputable to be there for him in getting over his A while try to get over my end of being cheated on at the same time. I realize that he was looking for a committed relationship and found it with the OP. Someone who can afford him the finer things in life I will not be able to provide. I still think he was settling for a sugar momma to go travel the world and finance his golf hobbies and in time will realize his heart wasn't that into her as be feels right now. I really believe he thinks he has feelings and loves her some but it is all based on wishes and fantasies of all the things they could do together. Not the years and history of family that he and I share. We lost our love along the way and I want it back, only better a real healthy loving caring nurturing marriage this time not the broken one I was looking to leave when I had A. I only pray its not too late and he can't let her go. Because regardless if he doesn't break it off completely I have no choice but to call it quits.


-D-day 1-23-12 -me Female 42(ws)-stayed together
2nd D-day 1-23-13- me (bs) this time. Attempting to reconcile, still together. M- 16 yrs w/ 2 teenage boys

It is what it is... thats all it is and nothing more.


Posts: 6 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: florida
2edgesword
♀ New Member
Member # 38486
Default  Posted: 3:14 AM, February 28th (Thursday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wow... didn't mean to start a feud y'all...I can see and appreciate both sides of the justification/ response list. As H has used it to his absolution for his A. He will always hold my A over my head as an excuse for him to have his.when my A went down he was full of and hurt, just lashing out at me in anger for several months. I was diagnosed with uterine cancer a couple months after my A was discovered. He blamed me for having cancer.says I gave the last of myself when I was healthy away to the douche bag I dated and I took that from him.after my hysterectomy I was broken in his eyes. I was the blame of everything to no end.I was deep in the fog no way out it felt. I was not emotionally capable to support his healing, I just reacted defensively. I put up a wall and pushed him away. I was not supportive and loving. I knew I hurt him immensely but I didn't know how to really be there for him.my actions did lead him to stray not just in having an A. But the lack of my full commitment afterwards.when he wanted a divorce back in Sept. The fog started to lift. I realized I didn't want a divorce but he had already started seeing the OP and was high on his A. He lied and sneaked around...just as I had,we were slipping farther apart, just living in the same house, completely disconnected like strangers, until I busted him. I could busted him a couple months sooner but I was too scared and still coming out of my own fog.I begged him to stay and for the past month he has. There is some hope maybe just a glimmer of what could be great but it is still there. I just gotta suck it up and completely commit to being there for him in getting over his A while try to get over my end of being cheated on at the same time. I realize that he was looking for a committed relationship and found it with the OP. Someone who can afford him the finer things in life I will not be able to provide. I still think he was settling for a sugar momma to go travel the world and finance his golf hobbies and in time will realize his heart wasn't that into her as be feels right now. I really believe he thinks he has feelings and loves her some but it is all based on wishes and fantasies of all the things they could do together. Not the years and history of family that he and I share. We lost our love along the way and I want it back, only better a real healthy loving caring nurturing marriage this time not the broken one I was looking to leave when I had A. I only pray its not too late and he can't let her go. Because regardless if he doesn't break it off completely I have no choice but to call it quits.* updated and tried to fix my incorrect in this draft-


-D-day 1-23-12 -me Female 42(ws)-stayed together
2nd D-day 1-23-13- me (bs) this time. Attempting to reconcile, still together. M- 16 yrs w/ 2 teenage boys

It is what it is... thats all it is and nothing more.


Posts: 6 | Registered: Feb 2013 | From: florida
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,
going off the recent topic to discuss an issue I am having. I am having a tough time reconciling. We are mad hatters, some know our story...I just miss my old life. Not the cheating part, not at all. I miss the specialness of my W b4 I found out about her A with my best friend. It might seem crazy, but the sexual part of their A is something I believe, over time, I would be able to deal with. But their loving relationship, the words, the acts of love, their undying love for each other is something I dont seem to be able to get past. I struggle daily. I want my W back. I want her to be special again, I miss being in love, in love with her. I really do, but I know I will never feel that way again. I feel that through this R we have been honest, she is doing all she can, and i too, try mightily. We go to IC and MC, we both want this to work. But simply put, she can see through this and views us as having a deeper, new love. I dont share that view. I feel empty. I feel like there is no joy in my life. We get out alot these days, we go out and have alot of fun together, but when we are left to the quiet time, our family time at home...the reality hits, and i miss the love of my life. That is gone. I stay for the kids to an extent, and I stay because whats to say I could be happy alone, or eventually with someone else. Its a position, I never imagined for myself, and I am so very lost. I just want to be happy again. I realize we are MH's and although I didnt love the women I was with, i strayed just as she did....But how can I feel that love again? is it even possible? How have you guys out here dealt with it in a way that you can see light at the end of the tunnel. I used to have such love for her. I used to feel we would grow old together. i used to trust her with everything and anything. Now? its all gone. And while there are fun times, and the sex is great. The love is missing. We screw now, as I had done in my affairs. I miss making love to my W. I want to love her, to care about her, and us. To want to trust her, to want to grow old with her.....But im so lost. Im just venting now, and rambling, so I will shut up. If anyone has anything they would like to share that may be helpful, I would love to hear it here, or privately. And Im sorry for going off the current topic, thanks, and goodnight :)


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:42 PM, March 6th (Wednesday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't,

Will you ever feel that again? No one can give you that answer for sure. I remember going on to recon asking a question very similar to yours. I felt nothing, and it took me awhile to admit that to myself and to my H. And it was hard for him to hear. Set us back for about two months.

I knew the exact moment that my love left. When I was watching the phone bill while he had been texting her, I called him, confronted him, he lied, hung up and called her. In that moment I was done. My feelings left. And they stayed gone.

It has only been recently that I have started to feel glimmers of something returning. It will be a year Friday. In that year I have spent my time healing myself and watching him to see if he was going to do what he said. Many wise people here told me to give it time. That I would know when it was time to throw in the towel. They were right.

If you are still struggling so much with this, then maybe putting the decision aside and working on yourself and your healing would be time better spent. Is there a reason that a decision needs to be made? Both of you have a lot on your plate with learning about all of this at the same time. Be gentle with each other.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
dcbw
♀ New Member
Member # 36940
Default  Posted: 10:37 AM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mine was 10 years ago, and it was with his permission. His (both of them) were in 2011, much more recent, and secretive. However, when I try to talk to him about how I'm feeling (not special anymore, thrown away, etc) his response is inevitably "But you did it, too." It's going to destroy us. I don't think I can heal without being heard.

Posts: 23 | Registered: Sep 2012
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 12:54 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ tiredgirl: Thanks, its nice to see there may be a glimmer of hope out there, i simply do not see it now.
@dcbw: thanks for your reply. I believe every relationship, and every A is different, and the reasons behind them different as well. That said, I too feel as you do. when I say things like, im lost, i miss the specialness, i miss how i used to feel about you, etc....I m not looking to argue, i am saying how i feel, looking for some dialogue, a way to see past it. In my relationship, my W says as yours does...well, you did it too. Maybe i dont think u are special either, etc, etc. Not what i am looking for, and not helpful in any way, lol....thanks for the posts :)


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 5:40 PM, March 8th (Friday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

can't,

A very wise member on here worked with me this past year on grieving the relationship I thought I had. I had lost it, he wasn't who I thought he was, never had been. I had to grieve that. And coming to terms with that was really hard. I think this is what you are trying to do and having a really hard time doing it. You want so badly to hang onto what you had and not let go of it. It scares you to let go of that thing you knew, that was special because you don't know if what is in the future could compare. But you are skipping the middle part. The part where you grieve the loss of that relationship. Have you looked at that at all?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
heartbrokennlost
♀ Member
Member # 37500
Default  Posted: 4:04 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I don't know if I belong here or not, but I thought this would be the best place to post with the least amount of back lash. I'm kind of a MadHatter, kinda not. What I mean is, I cheated on my first husband after 21 years of marriage. I never thought I would do such a thing and used to despise people who did. Well, it's not an excuse, but I got to a breaking point and and enough was enough, and that is how I lashed out. I'm not a good liar, so, I immediately left the marriage and told him I wanted to date. We were married at 18 and I never had much experience.

To make a long story short, I started seeing people I met online. He found out and did not handle it good at all. He started calling me all kind of obscene names, even in front of my children. It was ugly.

I know I put him through a lot, but I never quite understood how bad I hurt him until this happened to me. When I realized I cried like a baby for the pain I caused him. It's been five years since I did this to him, but I finally apologized for hurting him so bad. He always wanted to know why and I finally gave him the answers to that too. Mostly because that is the same question I ask my WH. In one way, this has made me grow but I can't also help and feel that I'm being punished for what I did to him by God.


Me-44
FWS-41
Son-18mnths
Son-18yrs
Son-22yrs
Son-18
Son-22
Son-17
Son-21

Posts: 87 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: heartbrokennlost
CheshCat
♀ Member
Member # 27546
Default  Posted: 4:30 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

heartbrokennlost ....

Welcome & sorry you're here!

There's a common misconception that to be here at the Teaparty, one has to have both betrayed & been betrayed by the same person.

Nope!

1 - Betrayed
2 - Wayward
3 - OW/OM/AP

If you've got 2 or more... In any order... Whenever... You're here.

It creates a different perspective/ problems/ challenges, in the INDIVIDUAL ... Regardless of whether the marriage has added problems, the individual does.

Heads up... MHs are not allowed to post in JFO. A lot do before they either become or know they're madhatters. No worries. But once they know (or a different hat shows up in posting), the mods are really quick about it.

Again... Welcome to Underland. Sorry you're here!

CC

Edited... DarnAutocorrext

[This message edited by CheshCat at 7:14 PM, March 9th (Saturday)]


"Another conversation killed awkwardly! Yes! Point to my side." - Chesh's Brother

Moi : BS MH 30mumble
Him : WS Abuse Adultery Addict Six-figure Sociopath = Aaass
... I picked a winner!
DDay - 2006 ad naseam
Divorced! 2013


Posts: 571 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: West Coast US
heartbrokennlost
♀ Member
Member # 37500
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What do you mean by different hat?


Me-44
FWS-41
Son-18mnths
Son-18yrs
Son-22yrs
Son-18
Son-22
Son-17
Son-21

Posts: 87 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: heartbrokennlost
heartbrokennlost
♀ Member
Member # 37500
Default  Posted: 10:07 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'd like clarification from the moderators here. I just read a posting under reconciliation/ afraid to post thread where the original poster said the moderators said he was not a madhatter. Sounds like my situation whereas it was from a previous marriage. I would just like to hear directly from the si staff on whether or not I'm now considered a mh and thus cannot post in jfo.


Me-44
FWS-41
Son-18mnths
Son-18yrs
Son-22yrs
Son-18
Son-22
Son-17
Son-21

Posts: 87 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: heartbrokennlost
CheshCat
♀ Member
Member # 27546
Default  Posted: 10:14 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

LOL... HBL beat me to it!

Mods? Has the definition changed?


"Another conversation killed awkwardly! Yes! Point to my side." - Chesh's Brother

Moi : BS MH 30mumble
Him : WS Abuse Adultery Addict Six-figure Sociopath = Aaass
... I picked a winner!
DDay - 2006 ad naseam
Divorced! 2013


Posts: 571 | Registered: Feb 2010 | From: West Coast US
SI Staff
Moderator
Member # 10
Default  Posted: 10:17 PM, March 9th (Saturday), 2013View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

A madhatter is a person who has been a WS and a BS in his/her current relationship.

If you have any questions regarding your specific situation, please PM a moderator.

Thank you.

[This message edited by authenticnow at 10:20 PM, March 9th (Saturday)]


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