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User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 7:45 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

hardlessons - I am now starting to buy your idea of an A being an A but being separate from the consequences. Great post!

cantgetworse - Welcome to this forum. Getting back to what hardlessons said, I would like to further expand on it, in my own syntax a bit. The circumstances surrounding your A's are different than your wife's A. Needless to say, the ultimate "why" probably isn't that much different.

If you look at my profile, you can see that the circumstances surrounding my A was quite a bit different than the circumstances surrounding my wife's A. The funny thing is, when we both got down to digging into ourselves, the reasons why we each had our own A was really not rooted too differently. There were a lot of similarities.

Getting back to consequences. This tends to deal with the viewpoint of the BS a bit more than the WS. As madhatters, we end up taking on the work of two roles: the WS and the BS. There's a helluva lot of work for each role, and different types of healing that need to take place. Like hardlessons said, it may or may not be a dealbreaker for one or the other. There may be other circumstances involved, like STD's, double betrayals, an OC, affairs at the workplace, all of them having their own set of consequences.

So, I guess in a roundabout way, I am saying you need to give both your wife and yourself room and time to work on both roles for each of you. It is going to take a lot of work and dedication, but it can be done.

Hardlessons and Tired Girl (and badchoice, too!) - thanks so much for your help yesterday. I was in a pretty bad spot. Things are working out quite a bit better for Amerasia and myself. I think last night we talked through a lot of things and came to some conclusions. One of those conclusions was that we were both being a-holes to each other. Yet another commonality that my wife and I have as madhatters.

I think we'll probably make it through this after all.

ETA: Corrected to fix gender-specific faux paus on behalf of myself.

ETA2: Reversed the corrections when I realized I was right in the first place. Made the mistake when I went back and saw part of your post was a quote from your wife, cantgetworse. Sorry about that.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 7:58 PM, December 14th (Friday)]


Posts: 4557 | Registered: Dec 2010
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 8:15 PM, December 14th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks Losfer, glad to hear things are better for both of you.

Good news!


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
theotherfoot
♂ New Member
Member # 37759
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, December 15th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all. Great thread. Just discovered this week I'm a madhatter. Not sure how I feel about that, but whatever.

My A started as an EA then resulted in one PA in early 2012. She found out right after as I'm bad at the cheating thing. At the time, we were separated, but living in the same house. Her disdain for me was well expressed - some legit, some not. We had tried MC prior to this, but she pretty much shut down there, and everything was my fault, according to her. I kept going to the MC sessions solo, which were of limited use for obvious reasons.

She brought up reconciliation a few months after my A, but I
did not want to return to the status quo of walking on eggshells.

Fast forward to Thanksgiving - I frequently travel for work for extended periods - multiple weeks. I was home for Thanksgiving for around 2 weeks, and things could not have been more pleasant between us. I realized I still loved this person and there was something worth saving, and that was why we got married. My shame at my betrayal was bottomless, and I didn't know how to bring up the subject(s) around reconciling, without it turning into a finger-pointing session.

Right before I had to leave again for work a few weeks ago, she left her phone, unlocked, and as I was sitting there, these texts from some person (guy?) started rolling in. Clearly there was a PA going on between them.

I gotta guess she knew I saw the texts, because she stayed scarce the next 2 days. As in gone before I woke up, and arrived home after I went to bed. I did not confront her until I was out of state for work again, but I wasn't nasty - in fact I told her I wanted to reconcile, and that I understood her A.

She basically dodged, blamed me for lowering her self-esteem, which is why she sought an A to feel better about herself.

So now - Christmas. I'm home in a few days. She keeps asking me my plans, and I frankly have none. I told her I don't I don't want to get the way of her love life, and don't go (home) where I'm an impediment to her dating. She dodges all my questions about her A and our relationship, and only asks for my flight info so she can pick me up.

We have kids, which complicates my decision-making, because obviously I want to see them. She said she's held off on a tree etc until I got home.

So, in a nutshell, wtf do I do? She's bad at expressing emotions that leave her vulnerable.I totally f*cked up with my dearest friend.


Posts: 6 | Registered: Dec 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 10:08 AM, December 15th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You need to spend the holidays with your kids. You will regret it and hold even more resentment still towards her if you miss this time with your children.

You can't make her get back into this relationship.... You can't threaten her into it or nice her into it either. If she avoids conversations about A's, can you write her a letter? If you like, being it here and we can help check over it before you share it with her. I think that she'll read it out of curiosity if nothing else.

You could have her get you from the airport, give her your letter, and take your kids out Christmas shopping for an hour or two. That gives her time to read it and hopefully decide to talk about it with you.

Best of luck to you, and way to keep up the IC.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
theotherfoot
♂ New Member
Member # 37759
Default  Posted: 10:51 AM, December 15th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I know I'll see the kids - it's the one area/topic in which we don't argue over. There is no making the kids pawns in our discussions over the fate of our marriage.

But I like the letter idea. I had a similar thought - just a simple few sentences, without excuses or qualifications. I love you. I screwed up. I want to make this work.


Posts: 6 | Registered: Dec 2012
theotherfoot
♂ New Member
Member # 37759
Default  Posted: 5:11 AM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

What a day. Seeing my wife today for the 1st time since my DDay last month of her A. As a peace offering, I told her there was an email surveillance program on our computer, and to just delete it as I don't know what good would have come of me reading what was on there.

Instead, she launches into accusations of an affair she thinks I had years ago, which NEVER happened. Then tells me hows shes been sleeping with her man friend in our house while I was gone. Said man friend appreciates her, whereas I don't. My response is - well, duh, you get dressed up all nice for him. I see you unshowered in the same clothes for days. WTF?

I feel like I can't win in trying to make things right. My A was inexusable, and I've said as much to her as recently as today. But the consequences seem more like revenge, and in fact she has wanted a new relationship from me, and my A in early 2012 was a convenient excuse to push me away. No matter what I say or do, there's another obstacle thats all my fault in her mind, some justified, some not .

I can't sleep, and scared what awaits later today. I just want to set things right.


Posts: 6 | Registered: Dec 2012
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 1:42 PM, December 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

@ theotherfoot
hi, sorry for your situation, im going through a mess myself at the moment, and as bad as mine seems, the underlying aspect that we did/do love one another is what we both need to TRY to push forward. I think b4 you can even try to get passed this, on both sides, there needs to be total understanding that you are trying to make it work. Perhaps a scheduled quiet sit down where you are both 100% truthful with one another on what you want and do you BOTH want to try to work it out. If not, then you have your answer. If so, then get back into hardcore counseling together, and apart as you both have separate issues outside of your together issues, and there needs to be no contact on both parts, and u need to rebuild trust...no passwords on any computers, complete access to each others cell phones, etc. I suggest a GPS type service where you can each monitor one another. And go from there. If you are not 100% behind this, it will not work. If she is not 100% behind this, it will not work. BUT, it is possible...i hope especially since i'm 6 plus months since DDay and trying. Best of luck to you whatever you do. Again, if theres one thing I can say as a mad hatter its at this point you need to be completely honest with yourself in what you want, and have her do the same. And if you both want it to work, it can. and if its not the case, well, then sadly, you both need to move on. hope today is better for you than yesterday. Today, so far...trigger free, and living moment to moment. I struggle. her A was with my best friend, thats been extra hard for me to get over THEIR betrayal of me, and how foolish i must have looked for a yr and a half. be well...


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, December 21st (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Been hurting all week...Its a tough time of yr for us. W's A was in full bloom this tim elast yr, with my best friend, and its hard to get any enjoyment out of anything these days. She has been supportive, done all she can do, but its not enough...Im just a mess. Yep, me the one who had several A's himself, which I confessed to after discovering my W's A.....i know i am just as bad and as much to blame, i am trying not to compare A's, which is soooo hard for me. I keep trying, I do hope to somehow turn the page, but I feel numb. Basically, I dont have feelings, I simply dont care one way or the other. I have no faith, especially in the W, I dont believe her, dont feel the same about her, its simply different now. Is this normal? six months removed from our D Day, and almost 2 months into an attempt at reconciling....I dont know how i should feel, but i simply lack my usual zest for life and am quite ambivalent towards the whole thing. I dont want to leave her, leave us. I do want to stay, am gonna try, and try....but does it ever get better? Does the overall pain go away, an will she ever be special again???


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
whatamess11
♀ Member
Member # 37781
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi...I'm the wife of cantgetworse11. My husband posted the other day, and I know we've all been busy with the holidays and our families and all, but if some of you can reread his post and provide us with some feedback, we'd really appreciate it. We find it very helpful to be on this site. Thank you.


D-Day 7/6/12 - My A was discovered that day; he confessed of his A's the day after
Me: WS/BS
HIM: WS/BS (Cantgetworse11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 62 | Registered: Dec 2012
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 4:02 PM, December 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cant and what, I was hoping some more veteran peeps would respond but in lieu of that...

The MH situation just cannot be described in English its so jacked up. 1. You never thought you could be hurt so bad 2. You never thought you could hurt your loved one so bad.

First, I think you need to understand that an A is an A period. Are the consequences different? Hell yeah, but for purposes of healing and R they have to be the same. If you can accept that then you have a shot. You can play the she/he did worse all day and it will never get you anywhere.

I dont believe her, dont feel the same about her, its simply different now. Is this normal?I dont know how i should feel

These are tough questions and where I had trouble was not only identifying the feeling but being honest about it with myself let alone my W. You will feel about her exactly what you want to feel about her. If you recognize the good, the helpful, thoughtful person she is trying to be then you will have positive thoughts about her. If all you do is fill your head with the negative... Bottom line, if you are both willing to at times put your pain on a shelf to help the other heal and are honest with and share your feelings the answer is yes, you will see her/him differently.

As far as numb, zest etc, that could be depression and need to work that in IC. You are getting to IC right? A book you need to read Cant is Emotional Infidelity by Gary Neumann, this book opened my eyes like no other. The both of you could read is Act with love by Russ Harris.

Hope this helps


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 6:42 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

thanks Hard lessons. I appreciate the input. I know I have a problem "comparing", i try not to, may i ask, if you dont mind was either yours or your spouses A with a very close friend the way hers was with me. Additionally, were either of your A's that long term LOVE affair. where one party not only checked out for a physical thing, but realistically left you for what she saw as the perfect man. See, in my case, despite my faults, and they are bad ones. I knew always who i loved and where i wanted to be each night and always, and that was with her. She, didnt. Post DDay i had her best friend tell me, she should have never married you. I had her tell me that she was in and out of love with me over the course of our 20 yr relationship, AND i knew she fell for our close friend, and basically told him how she loved him with all her heart....and that if she wasnt tied down with kids, she would have left me for him. These are the things i consume my days with. He has a tattoo to represent his love for her, and she was to do the ame for him...she hates tattoos, yet was researching them to show her neverending love for him, BUT....we can work through this?? one last thing, numerous emails were found when she got caught, worst one for me, was short, briefly she wrote to him, :"hey can i ask you something. What do you do when you have to have sex with ur wife. I dont want to have sex with him, especially kissing, i would rather be with myself. what do you do, how do you get through it." OUCH! But, now i am to believe that her fog has cleared and she wants me? Listen, i am a mad hatter, and i had my A's, but i never loved anyone, and never did i not want my wife, or imagine a life without her...now, i feel she is different, and i do feel this is a fraud, and despite our good moments, i know when i lay in bed at night that the person lying next to me, didnt want me there, and may not have for some time. i struggle, and hope i can get through this, but man i am so struggling right now. thanks again, and yes we are both in IC and couples too...


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 7:18 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

We have issues with comparing also. He had many PAs that to him were "meaningless". He was on dating sites and affair sites all while we were still living together. This all spanned a couple of years. I had an EA that became a brief PA this year. Unlike him, I was actually planning on moving on with someone else. That part crushes him.

I do try to remember an A is an A. However, I sometimes feel like Losfer that

it's like talking to someone who has a parking ticket, and another person who is a serial pedophile, and telling them "a crime is a crime".

However, in my case it would be more like a serial speeder vs a DUI. Not one of his As, individually, was as involved as mine, however the sheer quantity of them haunts me.

I do truly feel remorse, and I do wish I could wash his pain away. I know he triggers a TON still, and I hate that for him.

However, I am in so much pain as the BSO that it seems to cloud my ability to focus on the work I need to do as the WSO. I expect him at all times to be 150% into this R working hard as the WSO to help me heal from all the damage he caused over the years. (and he does so stunningly...most times) Every once in awhile, he'll snap back, "You're not the only one hurt here!" and that reminds me to be more supportive as the WSO for him.

It is SO fricking hard to balance both our healings and also our healing as a couple. Somedays I feel like I'm looking at two people when I look at him, two people that look and sound and feel exactly alike.
1. The man he is today, caring, kind, considerate, loving, giving, tender, remorseful, that is building our future, helping me heal, and I realize how tremendously I hurt this man, how I broke him, and it crushes me to know I did that. I look deep within myself for answers and work to ensure I never hurt him like that again. I hope for all things good for our future, and I love the sweet nothing else matters moments. He's the sexiest, brightest man on earth to me, and I'm so grateful he's my best friend.
2. The man he was from Oct.'10-Sept.'12, a liar, a serial cheat, a man with an alter life, one that scares the living hell out of me, making me fear for my sanity, the one who got me to believe in his lies sooooo many times, and when I see him as that man, it turns my stomach. The mind movies get going, the questions start reeling, and I just want to puke. If he even jokingly banters about sex I cringe, and it's hard for me to find anything to talk to him about to even keep small talk alive.

It all comes back to that I haven't fully let go of the comparison thing yet. Logically, I accept an A is an A. Emotionally, I'm not there yet, and I really look forward to when I am, because for now, as the one that is so stuck on feelings from ONE side of things, if this R fails, it'd be on me. I need to get to the middle.


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 8:32 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I knew always who i loved and where i wanted to be each night and always, and that was with her.

And yet you could have brought home an STD or had another child etc etc. Remember pain is relative to each of us, I understand that you feel your pain is worse and whether it is or isn't then what? You state you want R but seem more intent on proving that your pain is worse. So you will get exactly what you work for.

So, your pain is worse. Now what? Seriously ask yourself that question. What have you gained? In what better position are you? Did you wonder if you weren't spreading love around town all those years maybe she wouldn't have said those things?

That's the problem with comparing, there is an endless ways to color or jade things to our benefit. In general forum and JFO you will find BS's years later, bitter and in pain because they can't heal or move forward and that is sad. I understand your hurting, you just have to decide what is more important: Being right or getting better.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 10:16 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

you just have to decide what is more important: Being right or getting better.

This wasn't directed at me, but thanks. Really relevant right now.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 11:38 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi, I appreciate the recent posts, thank you. I think I am not explaining myself properly. I do not need to know my crimes were lesser crimes than hers, nor do I wish to compare them in that manner, not in the least. As 1 of our counselors said to us, there has been significant damage done on both sides. I agree there and I do seek to move past it. what I am trying to work through is different, in that is it possible that although both of us had A's that were mutually damaging to our relationship, I feel that it is the nature of her A which which is my biggest problem here. Lets table the fact that we both, really messed up. Bad, bad, bad. I get it, I believe my W does also. Now, moving forward, in trying to move past this, she has to deal with my A's and I her long term A. okay, check. got it. We have come to realize that during our Marriage, we had a clear communication problem which greatly helped us towards this issue. She began to feel distant from me, over a long period, and pulled away from me over time which made her vunerable to an A, and the slick mutha f##$%, anyway....I digress. She never mentioned any of this to me in any way, over the years. Me? Well throughout my marriage, I always felt that my W loved me, thought I was the good man, the good provider, a general nice guy, but i never truly felt desired and wanted by her, if that makes sense. I would drop hints, but in all honesty, I too never really divulged this to her. what did i do? Over the course of our marriage I had several A's with women, who I didnt connect to emotionally, it was a physical thing. They wanted me, and desired me....what i did for a living, how i provided for my family, what a nice guy i was, what a good dad/hubby i was....none of that mattered. They simply wanted me physically and sexually. And this need to feel that way was somehow filled, and I continued this destructive behavior. the people I met had no connection to me. Not work, not friends, not in the area in which i live, etc...I routinely battled myself with knowing it was wrong, and truthfully not even liking it much..The before and the after i hated. I was fine with the during, all of which is wrong. I would finish the act, and couldnt get out of there fast enough to get back home, where i knew i belonged. anyway, I did this, and it was wrong. Fast forward to about a yr ago. My W had been distancing herself from me, and after a few months of asking her if there was a problem, she finally said, yes. She said she just didnt feel right, wasnt happy, in general, not just with me, with everything. I suggested a counselor, for her, or us. She said yes, and she would like it to be for us. So, i call my very good friend , ask him for advice since i know he and his mrs are in counseling, and he recommends his counselor. Yes, this was my very good friend who just so happened to be in the A with my W. unreal, right. A friend that went away with me and my family on vacations during their A, etc.. Okay, so we begin counseling. Counseling she wanted. And she lied right through it all. Dr says we are fine, after several months, but we werent. Soon after, I catch her in her affair, an affair that she refused to give up, even throughout counseling. an affair that she readily admits was a love affair...an "i love you forever, you are my soulmate, i cant live without you" A. With my so called best friend. My sons best friends father. My w's good friends husband. A family that lives a mile away from our house..etc, etc. She would finish, and then lay there hugging him, saying how much she didnt want to leave him to go back to her family, and to me. Brutal! See, she loved this guy, and while I am not comparing, I never had that, so i simply dont get it. To be honest, and this I know sounds weird coming from a cheater himself....But, if i felt as she felt, there is no way I would have stayed married. If i was that unhappy that i would stoop to having this type of A with this person, it would clearly be a sign that, my marriage is over, and its time to leave. It may sound hypocritical, but it is different. I could not text and email this man every night, say I love you, and then slide into bed with my spouse. Couldnt do it. So, now...our D Day hits, she gets caught. shes "confused" says " i think i love him", says " i dont know where i will be in 10 yrs," etc...a day goes by, and i now tell her about my A's, and also tell her that the man of her dreams her OM was a serial cheater, he was messing around with me and other women, he had about 20 different women that I know of over the past 2 yrs, including some during his so called love affair with my W. I show her texts he sent me about other women during their affair, show him his personal ad on a famous married dating site. Now, and only now....her eyes are wide open. Now her fog clears. you See, her lover stayed with his W. shes alone, she has found out her lover is a fraud, who didnt really love her the way he said he did. she was played like so many others. she finds out her H is also a cheater, her world crumbles. what is she left to do? she has security in me. she revalues where she is at, whats at stake for her family, herself, her finances. Things we all probably do. And she concludes, (this is pure speculation on my part) she concludes, " i have a nice life, hes not so bad a guy, despite the A's....i cant have my true love, might as well stick this out." At least thats how I feel. And, lets go way back to the start of this post...i cheated, in part, because i felt that i wasnt wanted and desired at home. What her A did to me was simply confirm those feelings. thats how i feel now, moreso, despite the "hysterical bonding" we are going through where we are like teenage rabbits. I am truly a mess. I am soo very sorry this post was so long, and I hope people can read it and comment, and please help me, i need it. I dont want to walk away, I don't. But, I want some joy in my life :)


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
cantgetworse11
New Member
Member # 37811
Default  Posted: 11:53 PM, December 27th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

sry, one last thing. We are going to get those books you suggested and read them. currently reading, Not just Friends. thanks again


D Day 7/6/12
Me: BS/WH
HER: WS/BS (whatamess11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

Posts: 25 | Registered: Dec 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:22 AM, December 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't,

I am Hlessons wife. Our situations are reversed, I had the sex only, he had the emotional affair. Hard for me to get over. Especially since I had always told him I could get over a ONS, but if he ever had a relationship outside of our marriage, that would be a deal breaker. And this isn't his first.

So how do you reconcile what your wife did? Because as I see it that is what you are asking. Bottom line is, all affairs take place in fantasy land. Your right, your W had no idea who she thought she was in love with. How could she? She wasn't really living in the real world with him, they were both living in fantasy land where bills don't exist, spouses don't exist, and real life in general doesn't exist. She was allowed to rewrite her marital history and how she felt about you while feeling like that. Now, were there pre A issues that existed? Obviously. But when you exposed who he was and she became honest with what she had been doing, reality invaded her fantasy world and shattered it.

Now, does that mean that she is picking you because you are the runner up? Well, I have certainly had to battle those questions myself. I guess if my H is that unhappy I have certainly not made staying with me the easiest thing since I busted him nine months ago. He would have a much easier time of it divorcing me and going on his merry way and doing what he wanted, and with whom. Do I think she is staying with you just because of finances and stability? No. There are much easier ways of doing this if she is that unhappy.

Affairs destroy our belief in ourselves. And the belief that our partner truly wants to be with us. That has to be rebuilt and that takes time. Are you going to be able to believe your wife's words overnight that you are the one she wants? Probably not. Can that happen over time and with consistent action on her part? Yes.

Don't forget, it is your job to do the same for her. I hope that helps a little.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
windowsnotwalls
♀ Member
Member # 36983
Default  Posted: 6:09 AM, December 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Cant,

she was played like so many others.

I'm sure you didn't mean it to, but in a manner of seeking deeply of your authentic feelings, here's a gentle 2x4. Your post has a hint of a condescending nature. Do you feel your wife isn't as bright as you? Do you feel you were "smarter" in your As? Do you feel like her great savior that you saved her from the terrible serial cheating OM?

They wanted me, and desired me....what i did for a living, how i provided for my family, what a nice guy i was, what a good dad/hubby i was....none of that mattered. They simply wanted me physically and sexually.

So you believed. Right? I mean, honestly, you could've been just as duped as your wife was. Women with such high standards as spreading their legs in the air for someone else's husband, they're always totally stable, right? In my partner's case, he had multiple "sex only" As also, and two of them got way out of hand. The first, was my best friend, and it was a 2 minute thing, and it was more like "A Hand That Rocks The Cradle" thing. He thought completely different of it. He thought they just both in the moment screwed up. Not so. All my family, all my friends, all immediately realized the same thing. The 2nd one that comes to mind that got out of hand was a girl that lived hours from here. He saw her once in May, spent the night, didn't see her again until Labor Day, picks her up again, and she's ready to move in! He commonly got the "problem" of girls wanting more, even ONSs.

Yeah, your wife had no idea how many OW her AP was with. She could've easily brought home to you any number of deadly STDs However, if you look at intent, wasn't hers more pure? You admit, she had no idea, yet you were with these women who again were clearly sex-driven and you KNEW these women were promiscuous. You KNEW the risk you were putting your wife in, and you continued over and over and over.

i cheated, in part, because i felt that i wasnt wanted and desired at home. What her A did to me was simply confirm those feelings

First, you didn't cheat because of SHE didn't make you feel wanted and desired. What allowed you to make that decision goes back much deeper. Examine what that is. Go back as far as you need, but you'll find your own underlying issues buried somewhere that existed long before you met her. Your cheating had nothing to do with her. Her cheating had nothing to do with you. If you don't find the real reason you cheated so you can attack the true problem, it can (and most likely will) happen again. You didn't make it abundantly clear how important the need to feel desired was to you. You didn't suggest a sex therapist. You didn't buy books to read together. You didn't buy sex board games for couples and play those together. You simply took the easy way and stepped out on your W over and over. That has nothing to do with her. Likewise, she didn't come to you before her A started, she didn't stop the first encounter, tell you how vulnerable she felt, tell you it scared her, step back, and ask THEN for serious counseling. She went into her A, and only after quite awhile, did she say she wasn't happy. Well, duh! She's been living in fantasy land for so long now. Who could be happy? Again, your choices, nothing to do with her. Her choices, nothing to do with you. Own your own choices.

Finally, absolutely not, no she's not staying with you because of any other reason than she wants to be with YOU. Who in their right mind would stick around for all the intensely hard work that recovery is if they didn't even want their partner? She loves you. She wants you. She may not always feel incredibly sexual around you for quite some time. (go back and read above the two ways I can see my partner. I can bounce back and forth between those two visions of him multiple times in a single day!) There is no quick fix, and you are in for a long time of healing, but you clearly love each other. So there is great promise here. :) Just continue to be fully transparent, fully honest, and that includes going to your partner even when it's not a good thing, when it's you are angry or hurt or disappointed. Share EVERYTHING together. Like the book you're going to read says, reverse the affair time. Have transparent windows between you that allow your wife to see into you and you into her at all times and build walls around you as a couple to keep all else out. You two, together, you two can do this!


"She stood in the storm, and when the wind did not blow her way, she adjusted her sails" (Elizabeth Edwards).
http://youtu.be/62oby83NtGw
Forever Conditionally Detached

Posts: 503 | Registered: Sep 2012 | From: Pittsburgh, PA
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, December 28th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey Cant, I understand what you are saying. You had yours and felt bad after each time, she did it and fell "in Love". You will see that in a lot of posts on SI where the WS had found their soul mate blah blah blah. And that feels like it must be more of a hurt, like the analogy of the speeding ticket vs DUI.

That pain is all yours to make of it what you wish, no one else here on SI or IRL can tell you it isn't important or huge. It is important and it sucks and I am sorry it happened to you.

You both took the same road, had similar fucked up boundaries and coping mechanisms that brought you to the same exact place. Did you take different routes? Yes, but at the end of the day you betrayed yourself and your spouse.

Are there different consequences? Sure, intertwined with family friends and shit, yeah that is hard to deal with. You and Want have some tough choices to make. Understand that unhealthy attracts unhealthy, the 2 of you didn't get here by accident, decisions were made. Poor choice after poor choice was made with justification/rationalization/conflict avoidance or whatever mental gymnastics we put ourselves through to make our shitty choice ok.

I say all that to say that if you have someone who is willing to get healthy and dig in the shit to REALLY fix herself and help you heal, that is an amazing person. Speaking from experience.


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
whatamess11
♀ Member
Member # 37781
Default  Posted: 2:39 PM, December 30th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi I'm the wife of cantgetworse11...It's a roller coaster of ups and downs as you know. He still believes that I'd rather be with the other man which I don't want to be. My husband doesn't believe me despite what I say or do. He wants me to set him free so he can live the rest of his life without me. We just had an argument as we were discussing the night of and the morning after d-day. The night of and the morning after d-day, I had sent a quick text to the AP. My H already knew that I had sent him a quick text, and, although we've discussed it before, today again he asked me why I sent it. My answer was...I really don't know why I sent it..it's hard for me to go back there as I'm in a much different place right now. He wanted an answer so as I thought about it I said: I was concerned that the 2 of them would fight, I was confused and scared with all that happened, and that maybe part of me was also texting him for "damage" control so to speak since we were all friends. I think it was a knee-jerk reaction to text him. The AP never texted me back and later that day my H told me of all their affairs..meaning both my H and the AP so my H thinks this is the reason why I want to be with my H because I can't have my AP who is with his family. My H wants me to set him (my husband) free so that he can move on. Despite what I did, I want to be with him (my Husband). I just don't know what else I can say or do to make him understand that. The decisions that I made during that state aren't where I am at now. He thinks I'm staying around for the kids and finances (btw I have a career and do very well as does he). If I didn't love him and want to be with him, I would not be subjecting myself to this roller coaster of a journey which has its moments both excruciatingly painful but rewarding too at times given the situation we are in. I love him very much and I'm in love with him as well, and I feel closer to him now than I have in a long time. I can tell him anything. I feel very connected to him both emotionally and sexually. All of my energy is with him and our relationship. I know this is going to take a lot of time...I just wish we could fast forward to a year from now where we are hopefully in an even better place with each other. I know we can't do that, and I also know that we have to experience this pain in order for us to continue to heal. Any advice?


D-Day 7/6/12 - My A was discovered that day; he confessed of his A's the day after
Me: WS/BS
HIM: WS/BS (Cantgetworse11)
US: Madhatters
Together 20 yrs, 2 children, and trying....

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