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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:40 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

she was not there. But she does belong to this country club.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 8:42 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rachel,

A few questions. Does your H know about the situation with your daughter? And is it normal for him to go to this particular club with clients? Is drinking a little over the limit if he is upset normal for him?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:51 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

he knows about the daughter - I told him right away. And he seems very oddly detached from it - like I am the only one worrying about it.

he goes to the club with clients about once every 2 months I would say, and you know I don't like it but I guess that's my issue.

drinking over the limit when upset (and he did have IC yesterday) - probably but has only ever done that at home. He did drive home drunk....

[This message edited by rachelc at 8:52 AM, November 14th (Wednesday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:54 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

going to the club is not a boundary issue - I gave that up.
the drinking, however, I think is....
I mean, I need to know if we're following the boundaries or not. This is black and white for me...


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:22 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see it as a boundary issue as well. Not saying it isn't.

However, I am seeing a reason behind why he drank over the limit. Possibly self medicating. Not unusual when dealing with to many things on the plate.

He may not be as detached as you think, he just may not have any answers or fixes for you.

Men often see something like that as a problem they need to fix, we don't see it that way, we just want them to be in the fight with us. Men need to inherently fix it. If he has no fix, then what good is he? So he will act detached.

I think he may be a bit overloaded right now and what you saw last night was self medicating. Just my thoughts.

You may want to discuss this in MC. Or calmly say that you understand this may happen from time to time, however, him driving home drunk is not only illegal, but dangerous to everyone involved. He needs to call next time. You will gladly come get him. Then I would calmly address the drink limit and ask him if it is still in place or if that is not longer a boundary that the two of you have. Let him tell you if that is a boundary or not. If he says he doesn't care, then that is no longer a boundary. You are free from it as well, make sure he understands that.

I believe what you are seeing is some acting out due to some of the anger he has. You may see more. He may be passive aggressive about it. You may have to call him on it. But in a calm way. I see that he is just starting to get in touch with the anger he has been feeling. Do you feel able to handle how he feels?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 9:38 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

yes, acting out. But so were his affairs and that is very triggery for me...

We had a plan that he would talk to his IC about our daughter and see if she had any recommendations. I asked him if this was covered and he said no, he forgot, he is too dysfunctional himself, I think it was a joke. The only thing he told me is that she encouraged him to go home and talk to his Dad, which I encourage at any time.

Yes, I will talk to him about the boundaries.. and I did say he should call. There are several of us that could have driven him. DD lives one block from there.

But he also lied to me about how much he drank. what we talked about in MC is him being afraid of my emotions. For instance, him saying, "i didn't want to ruin your night" or "I wanted us to have a good weekend," as reasons for not telling me something.... This just seems so unhealthy to me.

can one person decide on the boundary? I thought it was an effort by the couple to put protective measures in place....

[This message edited by rachelc at 9:39 AM, November 14th (Wednesday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 10:12 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ok,

I see several things in your post that stand out.

One, him acting out is triggery to YOU.

He is going to have emotions about what you did. Is he going to handle all of them the right way? Probably not. I have asked you before if you think he will cheat again, and you have said no. You also say in your post that he doesn't say how he feels, because he is afraid of your emotions. Do you see the dynamic that has been created in your marriage? He can't be honest because he is afraid of how you will react, so he acts out.

So, what is the solution? What do you see as the solution? In madhatter relationships, we can't spend our whole time yelling and screaming at each other because well we are both BS's.

It isn't like a regular M where only one case of infidelity has taken place and I think you want to keep treating it as such. If your H doesn't feel safe to express his feelings to you or tell you what goes on for fear of how you will react constantly then you get the passive aggressive behavior you are seeing. Is that healthy or right? No. But it is common.

If you want a healthy M at some point, you are going to have to start fostering healthy communication. And that means not making him responsible for your healing.

I don't think that he should have asked his IC about your daughter. That is his time for him. Not your daughter. I think your H is very much starting to feel bitter about what is going on his home.

If you want answers about what to do about your daughter, you were given really good ideas down in off topic.

Look, I am not trying to be hard on you, I am trying to show what might be going on in your H's mind. I see you saying a lot, I guess I will do this or that. I guess I have to do this. You sound very uncommitted to what you want. That is fine to have a period where you are unsure if this is the marriage that you want. I did it too. But I think you may find it hard to have your H all in at the same time.

As for one person deciding boundaries. I said to ask, because if he has no intention of respecting it at this time, why bother? He is an adult, you can't force him to do this as much as you may want to.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 10:24 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think your H is very much starting to feel bitter about what is going on his home
.

which is what? I feel like I am being responsible and he gets to do whatever he wants. I'm so fucking sick of this. i better tip toe around him so he can "get better" and I better not push him too hard...

Do you know how hard it was to tell him I slept with two guys? He won't even tell me the truth about how many drinks' he's had. Fuck this, I want to be in a relationship with an adult.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like I am being responsible and he gets to do whatever he wants. I'm so fucking sick of this. i better tip toe around him so he can "get better" and I better not push him too hard.

This is the attitude I am talking about. Why do you feel like this?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:30 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Do you know how hard it was to tell him I slept with two guys?

Ya, actually I do.

But what does that have to do with him. Just because you step up, doesn't mean that he is going to do that same thing in the same time frame. If I remember right, you had people here talking to you about doing that. Your H doesn't have that benefit. You cannot stay in this score card mentality. Not if you want a healthy marriage. It is up to you. You need to take care of your side of the fence, let him take care of his.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is the attitude I am talking about. Why do you feel like this?

because i take being a WW SO seriously. When I got ready to go out last night I said to myself, this is how I'm going to act this is what I'm going to drink, this is how I'll behave as to show respect for myself, my husband and my marriage.

He deserves to have a wife he doesn't need to worry about...


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 11:47 AM, November 14th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

This is the attitude I am talking about. Why do you feel like this?

because i take being a WW SO seriously. When I got ready to go out last night I said to myself, this is how I'm going to act this is what I'm going to drink, this is how I'll behave as to show respect for myself, my husband and my marriage.

He deserves to have a wife he doesn't need to worry about...


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
PippaPeach6
♀ Member
Member # 37523
Default  Posted: 9:47 AM, November 16th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi! Not to t/j but my first post. Just wanted to introduce myself after lurking for a couple months.

*waves and ducks*


Us: 50ish, madhatters, married 20 odd yrs
TT: May 2009 'til June
DDay for both: June 17, 2009
Me: 2x, same person, 1991
Him: 1.5 year PA (EA?) 2007-2009
Reconciled

Honey Badger don't care. - Randall


Posts: 384 | Registered: Nov 2012 | From: Flyover chic
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 12:40 AM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi MH Forum

RachelC i am sorry it is feeling really up hill at the moment.

And i wish i had my head around the sort of pattern that is going on for you right now to comment more fully.

Our time frames are so much further apart - which has allowed some seperation in working through all this.

I think what you are in is really hard to navigate. Especially when it is fruther compounded by your assault and and all of this in just 2 or so years.

I am saying this to set the context that I understand it can't be easy.

I totally respect TG's inputs on this and just offer the following as a a different set of words. To see if reflecting on them might help you find some clarity.

You have set a boundary that you think helps your marriage to be safe for both of you, he has agreed to that boundary. Can he acknowledge that he chose to do that? My thoughts are fairly straight forward, you have both betrayed your marriage and I understand made a committment to work for your marrage to be safe for you both and your children.

If a boundary is broken, by either of you, in your situation I would need a preparedness from my partner to own that, learn and to use it to build something stonger and safer.

I think it is ok to ask for that - as it is something you need.

best wishes x Meg.

Weclome to MH forum Pippa peach. I haven't been around here as much lately, but it is a special forum. The conversations here have played a very big part in my healing so far.

Meg.


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:57 AM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MegM and all, this is what I PM's TG about the conversation that transpired when he got home:

Me: are we still doing the boundaries?

Him: yeah, I probably had 5 not 4 drinks last night (I’m thinking I know it was more than that but I’ll just let him talk)

Me: did you have a bad day and needed to let down a little?

Him: No, I had a good day? It’s just that I was out with a 63 year old man and I haven’t been out without you in a long time. I guess that’s just an excuse.

Me: Well, it’s just that I could have used another martini that night and I’m just wondering if we were still doing the boundaries. Now that I think about it, I need to set a personal limit of 2 drinks. Really, with what I weigh and how I eat, I can’t have more than that.

Him: Yeah, but neither of us was out til 2 am. But I guess that’s an excuse too.

Me: Well, if we could just talk about taking a boundary off the table before it happens that would work better for me…

Him: yeah, I agree.

And that was it!

He also went out two days later with a guy co-worker and I was anxious about that... but he was home before 7. TG thinks there may be some acting out on his part but not sure.
He went home for the weekend to tell his Dad what has transpired over the last 2 years. They know nothing. He was very nervous about this.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 9:50 PM, November 17th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome, Pippa.

I see you're a fellow madhatter with DDays for both spouses on the same day. I haven't seen another with that circumstance until you. What are your thoughts on the healing process you've experienced so far? I'm just beginning my journey, so I'm interested in your thoughts after 3 years.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 1:50 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

well he did it again - he told me he went out to the bar with his brother had 5 beers, said he drank too much and got home at midnight.
I asked if he was serious about us, he said yes, are you. then he said he behaved...

I'm at a loss here...


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 3:20 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((Rachel)))

Hon, if there are no consequences, what's to stop him from this behavior? He would stop if he wanted to badly enough.

I can see why there would be peer pressure he might succumb to with a client, but with his brother? They do not to be out at a bar having too much to drink too late. His brother should be supportive of healthy behavior and understanding if Mr RachelC wants to watch the game at home with brother or something equally healthy compared to what is happening now. Your H could have def spoken up with brother but chose not to, repeatedly, with each and every drink and every hour he was out later.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 3:36 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's just that I guess we decided the amount of drinks wouldn't be an issue anymore. I asked would you be ok if I went out with my sister, got home at midnight and had too many.He said he would be worried.He said he knows his limit and he wasn't drunk.
I said were you drunk December 29th? (the day he made out with OW#2 at the bar) he said yes.. and so were you in Wisconsin....(wow)

He said he could have drank at his brother's house but his brother wanted to go out...

so we left it at that and we are fine... but I had a long talk with my sister last night, in addition to TG - sister also thinks he has not dealt with his anger for me yet so is pushing me to see how much I love him and will I stay with him if he acts out.

I said that is so passive aggressive... yep.

But, ya know, I can understand wanting to have some drinks with your brother. It's just that this is the second time this week.... and I really don't think a bar is an establishment a person who's had two affairs in the last year should frequent, especially without the wife.

thoughts? am I over-reacting?


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Grief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.”


Posts: 3670 | Registered: Dec 2010
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 4:01 PM, November 18th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I see this as completely reasonable. Has this been established yet between the two of you?

I still see him as pushing against the boundaries, why? Not sure yet. I don't know that your H is remorseful at this point, regret, yes. Full on remorse, not sure about that. That could be playing a role in this. I also see that he is having difficulty processing his own anger, and between all of this, I see him as having real difficulty in knowing what to do with all of it.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
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