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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
openbook
♀ Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 12:19 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Ah....you nailed me to the wall.

That my friend is what I am still trying to figure out. I can only truly know my own heart and my own level of commitment and you yours.

But I do think we get gut feelings from our spouses, it's tricky and not clear cut but there is information there. Also, the reality is that we can never be 100% certain. We have to find a way to be ok with that because it is reality whether we like it or not.

It was reality before our trust was broken too we just didn't know it yet.

Vulnerability sucks but it is a part of the human condition.

I know all those words do nothing to soothe you right now....believe me....I know.

I wish I had more answers and more wisdom, if I had I wouldn't have made such a mess of my own life...

(((rachelc)))



Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 5:03 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Need to post. Feels safe here.

This morning I told my H one of my deepest fears. We were watching the news, and he was talking away, but I was feeling distant and scared. This has been in my head for months, and I must have had a look on my face. He asked me what was wrong, and I didn't want to tell him. I said, "It's stupid." But he still wanted to know, so I told him: "I'm having some self-esteem issues right now. I'm feeling self-conscious about a friend who you've met before. I'm scared that when she visits-" And this point he half turned his head and said, "Who?" I said, "My friend. I'm scared you'll see her and see how much better she is than me. I mean, all the other guys do. I'm scared you'll see her and wonder why you're wasting time with me when you could be with her."

There was a very long pause. Then, once again only half turning his head, he replied, "You're right. That is stupid." And kept watching TV. We didn't talk about it anymore.

I'm feeling mixed up. On the one hand, I don't have a right to complain. I'm a friggen' mad-hatter; I cheated too. Sometimes I almost feel like he deserves to cheat on me again because of that and because I'm not enough. I'm lucky he wants to stay married to me. I don't feel like I have the right to keep tabs on him when I broke his trust. He's told me before that he "can talk to whoever he wants", and that's true. I'm not his babysitter. I cannot and SHOULD NOT control him. It's not my job to keep him on a leash or say he can or can't cross boundaries: that has to come from him. On the other hand, it hurts me deeply. I don't like him talking to "whoever he wants" when that includes other women and inappropriate topics of conversation. He's cheated before; I've seen his boundary issues with many other women. And it would hurt me even more deeply if he were to cheat with a friend.

What upsets me more is, he didn't offer me any reassurance. And he typically doesn't. So it seems my homework is, stop relying on him to supply my self-esteem. Start building it for myself. That way, if anything f'ed up ever does happen again, I'll be stronger and able to walk away and stay stable. No more cheating on my part. No more suicidal thoughts. No more trying to make him stay if he's unhealthy for me. No more shutting down. The backbone to raise my son and brush my H and my friend, if that were to happen, off and away and keep going.

If H even would cheat with my friend, shouldn't I just be happy for them? Think, 'they deserve each other, they deserve to be happy'? But I'd be scared they'd try to take my son away from me. So much could go wrong.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 11:10 PM, April 27th (Saturday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
openbook
♀ Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((silverhopes))))

Sending you hugs honey, it sounds like you have a lot going on in your heart and head today.

the part that concerns me the most is this

There was a very long pause. Then, once again only half turning his head, he replied, "You're right. That is stupid." And kept watching TV. We didn't talk about it anymore.

Could it have been bad timing or is this a usual reaction from your H?

If you were to bring it up again would your H be responsive?

It sounds like you do need to work through your own feelings of inadequacy (me too btw) but in addition I think it is important to be able to get some support and reassurance from our closest relationships.

I hope you can get that through your H.


Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 10:36 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you openbook. I've been having mood swings today. Feel upset one moment, then somewhat okay the next. I'm sorry for the unbalance in my posts.

Feeling adequate and okay is such a huge battle! I wonder why or how so many of us can feel so low when we know everyone is beautiful. Why's it so hard to see it about ourselves?

H tends to avoid these kinds of subjects, so I don't know how to bring it up. A couple of hours later he randomly joked about polygamy. Not. amused. In fact, alarmed. But he asked me again afterward what was wrong. I didn't know how to go there again with him, so I told him it was the voices (which is true). He wanted to know what they were saying, but I wouldn't tell him. I didn't want him to be angry with me. But then he got up, sat behind me, and put his arms around me for a few seconds. He never does that. It felt good, and I told him that. He's been playing video games the rest of the afternoon. Just a couple of minutes ago, while I was typing this, he came over and said, "I love you." This is the second time he's said it today, and he looked at me when he said it. I want to tell him, feel like I should tell him, but don't feel safe telling him again. Don't feel like he would sit down and talk about it with me, or give reassurance. Think we're still working on our communication.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:25 PM, April 5th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Maybe his saying "I love you" was his way of giving me reassurance, even though I really wish we could talk openly about this. I'm so thankful for H. He's got this incredible sense of humor and it makes him so strong. He's one of the only people who doesn't judge me for hearing voices because he hears them too. He's the one who taught me to push them away and say "What they say doesn't matter". He's so strong. And I love how gentle he is with the cats...

If anyone's looking for sweet things to do for your spouse, there's a great thread in WS right now. Here's one that just came to mind. H turned 30 this year. I bought him gifts. But I spent the most time on making him a card: "30 Things I Love About H..." And listed one thing for each year. He had me read it to him. That way, no matter what, they have a list of all the things you love about them. All the stuff that makes them special.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 1:07 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Silverhopes,

It would seem just by the little bit that you wrote that your BF has a problem respecting your boundaries.

I don't think this is an uncommon problem.

I had to dump my BF after DD for the same issues among others.

You may want to evaluate what you are really getting from it.

JMHO


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:32 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think you're right, tired girl. It's a boundaries issue. Intentional or not, not something I want to invite into our M.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 11:12 PM, April 27th (Saturday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 1:37 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm sorry you've experienced this too. It's hard when it's someone you trusted and shared so much with.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:00 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Your right Silverhopes, it is hard when it is your BF. But mine crossed boundaries with my H that I tolerated for many years.

Once I started getting healthy I really didn't understand why I had tolerated any of that for years. I decided that having someone that toxic in my life was not worth it. Someone who can't respect my boundaries is not someone that I want in my life anymore.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:55 AM, April 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Someone who can't respect my boundaries is not someone that I want in my life anymore.

It seems so simple, doesn't it? And it takes so much strength to do it, but it's so necessary. If we can do that, then we're truly being healthy. I'm still learning the art of boundaries. Once I have them in place, it won't seem so hard. It's so hard to imagine losing our friendship. But we have to seek out what's healthy, even if it hurts. More than the M, it's about maintaining healthy boundaries.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 11:16 PM, April 27th (Saturday)]


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
openbook
♀ Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 1:41 PM, April 6th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Healthy boundaries are so important. I've come a little way in idenitifying what mine are but reinforcing them, standing up for them when breached...well...that I have completely failed at.


Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 12:28 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

openbook,

Is this a process that you are looking at and working on currently?


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
openbook
♀ Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 1:22 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Yep, been at it for a few years now but I am sorry to say that I haven't come that far, really.

It's lifetime of habits that I am trying to first recognize and then change. That's pretty tough.

But I'm working on it and that's what matters.


Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 11:14 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Open book, boundries have always been an issue for me. The light bulb for me was reading this book as well as truly putting myself in BS shoes which I had never been able to do and still struggle to do.

It is a thought process I am trying to change, a series of paths our thoughts logically take to get to the end of a task. Problem is that these typically are paths of least resistance, avoidance, self preservation or validation. Add feelings of justification and viola I have crossed boundries.

By your member # you probably read the book, have the tee shirt and own stock in SI but jic

Emotional Infidelity: How to Affair-Proof Your Marriage and 10 Other Secrets to a Great Relationship (9780609810002): M. Gary Neuman


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
openbook
♀ Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have read a ton of books but I haven't read the one you suggested.

The one I liked was Boundaries in Marriage...I can't think of the authors right now. Sorry

In my marriage my toes, and heart were stepped on repeatedly but I did nothing except speak up then when nothing changed I shut up. What was the use?

Leaving the marriage was the only power I ever had. Once my H said, after his 3rd affair, "I knew I had you" meaning he could do whatever he wanted and knew I would take it. Not gracefully but I certainly had never done anything that prompted change.

I look back on it and honestly I am still dumbfounded. I really thought there must be something terribly wrong with me because the person that professed to love me and had vowed to stay by my side didn't care one bit that I was hurting or upset.

After 16 years of it...I started to become the same way....

Not anymore though. I am finally back to myself. I am whole within myself and I have vowed not to be in another relationship until I get myself healed.

It feels incredible. I am lighter than air these days. The chains have been removed.


Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
silverhopes
♀ Member
Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 4:49 PM, April 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not anymore though. I am finally back to myself. I am whole within myself and I have vowed not to be in another relationship until I get myself healed.

It feels incredible. I am lighter than air these days. The chains have been removed.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3761 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
Firebird 5
Member
Member # 33295
Default  Posted: 5:26 PM, April 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I belong here, too. : (


Him--many years LTA (EAandPA) w/ MOW
Me-- EA during separation/emotional breakdown

Posts: 103 | Registered: Sep 2011
openbook
♀ Member
Member # 12331
Default  Posted: 12:16 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Welcome Firebird

We're here for you!


Let us not look back in anger, nor forward in fear, but around in awareness. ~ James Thurber

Posts: 2706 | Registered: Oct 2006 | From: SoCal
Firebird 5
Member
Member # 33295
Default  Posted: 2:29 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks!


Him--many years LTA (EAandPA) w/ MOW
Me-- EA during separation/emotional breakdown

Posts: 103 | Registered: Sep 2011
Nice2know
♀ New Member
Member # 35202
Default  Posted: 12:35 AM, April 17th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all, feeling a bit down tonight. This may be long,sorry.

So I am still on this roller-coaster thing, God how I wish it would stop, Id like to pick a mood and stay in it. Just a quick history hubby has had two sexual encounters with other women, one EA while deployed and if its all being told truthfully a fixation on my sister that had him leaving our bed at night to try and have sex with her on several occasions. I cheated once after learning of the EA, still having a hard time owning my shit as for some stupid reason I have myself convinced that he is at least in part responsible..I know its stupid. The two sexual encounters are fairly new learning's, the EA is old news and the whatever with my sister I learned about in October 2011...I told hubby of my ons two weeks after he came home from Iraq in 09.

I have had multiple d-days, reliving the same hell again, again, again..I feel awful most days, just drained. There is so much going on in addition to all this cheating and lying. Hubby was separated from the Military in FEb, he got in some trouble they kicked him out. We have lost all income, all healthcare.. we are now on food stamps, our life's a mess. He is on unemployment, we are fixing to move back home (my sister he desired so badly lives there, we will see her everyday,there is no where else to go) Im so empty sometimes, I just feel hollow. And then there is that big bolder that at times comes to rest on my chest. It becomes hard to breathe, I feel like crying and have to run off into my bathroom so the kids don't see. After an hour or so I can pull myself together and plaster that "everything is right as rain" smile on my face. Nothing will ever be ok again is how I really feel...

Hubby and I talk, he answers my questions, I guess hes telling the truth but who knows, it inst like lying his ass off is a foreign concept to him or anything. I hope he is being honest and as always time will tell.

I have no way to gauge if he is regretful or remorseful. Id like to think its the latter but honestly I still feel like its a sorry he got caught thing. He says he is sorry for hurting me, for risking his family and life for some meaningless fling..I dont know what to think. He had so many opportunity's to come clean, I just cant fathom why he didn't if he really is interested in getting this marriage on the right track. October wasn't too long ago, I pleaded with him, tell me the whole truth, tell me it all. he again lied in my face, swore on the lives of our children and everything. I HAD started to heal, I made a peace with my sister in my heart, I was doing a little better and BAM! I hear about a fellow soldier, a girls at MEPS....Jesus Christ does his penis really do ALL the thinking....The meps thing happened just two months after we were married, we've been married 5 years. To him its old, hes over it, it feels like he just fucked her last month to me though, same with the other girl, it happened about 1 and a half years ago, Im just hearing now, might as well been two months ago..And why am I always the last to know. All of my "friends" at our last duty station knew about girl number 2 and nobody told me, why? The person who told me got the information from the OW, she then asked my hubby and he begged her not to tell me and she didn't ...wtf! I called her crying when I found out about this shit with my sister, she could have told me then. But no she waits 5 months or so, gets me on the phone and says don't feel bad for him being depressed he fucked (enter unit whores name here)..Several members of my family knew about what he was doing with my sister, why did they just keep it from me? Telling me how lucky I am to have such a good man...wth! And they KNEW, but tell me hes a good man...UGHHH

I feel angry at myself for letting him lie to me because I knew something was up, Those little gut feelings that no matter how hard you tell yourself "your crazy" it just wot go away! At MEPs I called him that night, he was short, very cold, not himself and I KNEW. Later I called again but the connection was bad but hubbys roomate said something about "your husband" a "girl in a towel" and he was "sorry". I confronted hubby when he got home the next day, he lied and I believed him, to his face..my heart told me different. But ignorance is bliss so I stuffed it all and carried on. The EA was rough but I made it my fault, i wasn't good enough, he was deployed and stressed out blah blah I made excuses. I screwed up got drunk and had sex with a "friend", told my husband and got cheated on two more times...He says he wishes Id never told him, I do too sometimes and sometimes Im almost glad he hurts a bit too.

I hate his wedding ring! I know its crazy but seeing it on his finger makes me sick. He confessed to taking it off both times that lets me know that he thought of me, of us and our life and did it anyway. I think this is where I start blaming him for my screw-up. I was drunk, not an excuse but I wasnt in a stable frame of mind. My judgements were very much clouded by booze and pain. He was stone cold sober every-time, he took the time to remove his ring, like that made it any less wrong. He lied and covered it up, let me drive myself insane wondering why I was sabotaging my marriage with my "craziness"

I think im forcing normal, we had sex the same night I learned about all the "new" stuff, maybe three weeks ago. We have been having a whole lot of sex and its good, not awkward. I can kinda lose myself in it, I feel so close to him during sex. No words, no pain just me and him and us...im asking for things I usually do not like. I think that's because he told me that I wasn't slutty enough for him. He then said he didn't mean that and that he was just making excuses right then so why does it stick with me? I have always been confident that i bring the A game in the bedroom, he has never complained and we have always been very good about communicating or wants and needs, there was no reason for him to go elsewhere and from what he says it was just sex, nothing great or kinky...both tikes doggy style, some blow jobs, done...he says he thinks he did this because being wanted by another woman made him feel good. well just what in the fuck am I...

My head hurts and I need a drink...Funny thing is I hate to drink, tonight I want a keg of everything.


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