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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
pecia
♀ New Member
Member # 36941
Default  Posted: 12:40 PM, October 11th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM,
I checked out the SA stuff. He has some of the tendencies, but I don't think he has it(although there is a lot idk about him, so it is still possible). Who knows. He is still on the fence as far as if we are going to work on it or not. He keeps eluding to the fact that I am the one who finally did something that he can't forgive and forget, that I chose my EA over him when he caught me and I refused to stop texting the guy for a few more weeks. I will admit that it was very hard to go NC. It took me a couple of weeks to wean off of him. He makes it out like I am the one who did worse things. I told him it wasn't about whose was worse (obviously I think it was him, he thinks it was me). I told him I just want us to heal. I want us to talk through this. He says I was ready to leave him in June and he wants me to leave. I told him if he was that serious to go get the papers drawn up and I would sign them, but if not we were going to work it out. I still get called a hypocrite. well, so is he. I hate not knowing what is going to happen with us. It is 3 wks until our anniversary. I bought him a present so I told him no opening any packages that arrive. His reply was "oh, we are celebrating that this year?" I said "well, I am. IDK about you." I guess we will see how serious he is.


Me: 34 mad hatter
Him: 35 mad hatter
Married 17 yrs
Kids: 18 yo step-son
Me: EA 2006 - 2012 off and on.
Him: PA 2009 - 2010, prob more I don't know about.
Multiple D-days.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2012
2kidsandadog
♀ Member
Member # 33679
Default  Posted: 12:55 PM, October 11th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I was married to this! We have been divorced a year and a half and I still hear about how bad I was and how everything was my fault. Makes my heart race everytime he regurgitates that shit!!

That part won't get any better. It just serves to minimize what he's done by forcing guilt onto you about what you did.

DON'T TAKE IT!!!! What he's done is bad and he needs to be accountable for it. You can be accountable for your actions in your own right.

I am so sorry he's being verbally abusive to you. You both are in a sticky situation right now. Don't let him guilt you!!

Ever heard of the term "projection"? That's what he's doing!

Hugs to you!


Divorced 05/11/11 -
2kids - 20 and 22 (Thank God for them)

Too many Ddays to count. Enough said!


Posts: 693 | Registered: Oct 2011
DontTreadOnMe
♂ Member
Member # 35240
Default  Posted: 3:50 PM, October 11th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being a madhatter sucks. Because my wife's dday was just a couple weeks ago, it feels as if I'm not allowed to hurt anymore from her A. I almost feel guilty for hurting. And it's so hard to talk about my A and not bring up hers... to not get defensive. Does this get any easier?


Me: WH/BH, 27 (addict in recovery)
Her: Lost333, BW/FWW, My DDay: 2/19/12, Hers: 9/29/12

Working on myself through IC, NA meetings, intensive outpatient program, and lots of digging. Praying for R.


Posts: 230 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Midwest
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 5:43 PM, October 11th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

DTOM, yes it gets easier. This is yall's new reality and it sucks but if you guys want R bad enough, you'll keep trying and trying to do your best. Not sure if y'all are talking right now or not but keep chugging away at your issues. How's your sobriety going? I hope you find good fellowship in 12 step. My H says it helps him so much.

Re: having trouble balancing your respective A's, it is a challenge. It's easy to slip into the BS role but that isn't you anymore. TG and someone else were talking about how they do their best work on themselves with a WS hat on, so I suggest you take that route and that Lost do the same.

Has she made any requests of you? Timeline, therapy, NC, IC, etc? How is all that going?


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
pecia
♀ New Member
Member # 36941
Default  Posted: 5:51 PM, October 11th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I think it does get easier with time. I am not as raw over his PA from 2 yrs ago. I am more raw over the recent stuff (that he still will not own up to). I still have questions over what happened with all of that one, but he may never answer them. I too feel like I am not allowed to express my hurt over the new stuff because he is so angry at me for mine. I am trying to refrain from pushing him to say if he is going to D me or not. He still says he is but hasn't gone to get papers. R is hard regardless. It is especially hard when you are the only one trying to do positive changes. Love is a bitch.


Me: 34 mad hatter
Him: 35 mad hatter
Married 17 yrs
Kids: 18 yo step-son
Me: EA 2006 - 2012 off and on.
Him: PA 2009 - 2010, prob more I don't know about.
Multiple D-days.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2012
DontTreadOnMe
♂ Member
Member # 35240
Default  Posted: 3:30 AM, October 12th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

It's 3:30 am... I can't sleep. Work in a few hours. Ugh.

What is going on: Lost moved out about a month ago. She lives about 40 min away. We are still committed to each other. We are working on ourselves. Living apart makes this easier. We hope to R and live together again in the future. We see each other; mostly on weekends. I'm grateful for each day I see her, and each day we are still together. Things are a bit rough, but we are trying. I love my wife with all my heart. Her resiliency is amazing. I feel terrible for what I've put her through. Not just the A, but also for using, for lying to her, and emotionally abusing her. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she quit. Ive put her through hell.

I am doing everything she asks of me (not just for her, but also for working on myself). I've given full disclosure. Established NC with OW. Re-established my boundaries. (and taking them very seriously). I'm going to IC every week. I am being open and honest. She has passwords to everything (banking, email, phone, etc). I've been sober for two weeks. No drugs or alcohol. Absolutely no mind or mood altering substances. Ive been going to NA meetings. Ive committed to at least 3 meetings every week, but have attended more than that. (I truly want to be sober... with or without Lost). I do not hang out with my former best friend, as he is not sober nor healthy. I do not associate with anyone that is using and/or a friend of the marriage. Well except for my cat, Arnie. (He is addicted to catnip lol). I go to work everyday. I try to give Lost whatever she needs to help her heal.

I've pretty much completely changed my life. It's been scary. But it's also refreshing and fulfilling. I like the person I'm becoming. He's starting to look familiar.

[This message edited by DontTreadOnMe at 7:44 AM, October 12th (Friday)]


Me: WH/BH, 27 (addict in recovery)
Her: Lost333, BW/FWW, My DDay: 2/19/12, Hers: 9/29/12

Working on myself through IC, NA meetings, intensive outpatient program, and lots of digging. Praying for R.


Posts: 230 | Registered: Apr 2012 | From: Midwest
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 8:04 AM, October 12th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sounds like you're doing great things DTOM Keep up the hard work!

Also, great internal dialog with your inner child. That was a great exercise!

ETA: pecia, how are you today?

[This message edited by NothngElseMattrs at 8:11 AM, October 12th (Friday)]


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, October 12th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pecia,

Have you offered to write out a timeline for your H?

DTOM,

Your IC would be a good place to discuss your pain regarding her A. Or maybe down in betrayed men.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 7:39 PM, October 12th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being a madhatter sucks. Because my wife's dday was just a couple weeks ago, it feels as if I'm not allowed to hurt anymore from her A. I almost feel guilty for hurting. And it's so hard to talk about my A and not bring up hers... to not get defensive. Does this get any easier?

Hey DTOM - It's going to take some more time and work before it gets easier. Your A doesn't cancel out the hurt that you feel about your W's A. Unfortunately for her, the wound is much newer and more raw.

It sounds to me like you are taking some good steps in the right direction. Hang in there for the long haul, buckle up for the roller coaster, and try your best to be good to each other.


Posts: 4514 | Registered: Dec 2010
pecia
♀ New Member
Member # 36941
Default  Posted: 9:29 PM, October 12th (Friday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys. I am ok today. It sucks because my H and I are both working. he is on nights and I am on days so we don't really see each other. He hasn't been wanting to text any today so that has been a downer. He also found out that I got his cell bill password and changed it so I cannot check up on him. Its not like it really matters I suppose since he isn't owning up to any of it anyway, but it made me feel better (at times)and worse at others because he would be texting other women instead of replying to me. Ugh. Its hard. I need to be doing homework. I am in graduate school in the middle of all this with full time work in the ICU. It is just a hair stressful. I attempted to have sex with him yesterday (its the only time I feel close to him anymore). I got turned down, which is a tad hard on the self esteem. He didn't write me any letters today so I have no insight into where he is emotionally today. I am trying to just leave him alone and let him sort it out and not push him one way or the other. I don't want him to rug sweep it, but I do want him to stop chatting up all the other women and choose me. I know it is a lot to ask of him, but I feel like I have had to overcome a lot too in order to stay with him. I have made a timeline of sorts for him. I tried to explain to him that I didn't start things up with my EA until he was acting suspicious. I have tried to give him as many details as possible and it doesn't seem to help. He just keeps saying that I crossed the line when I chose to leave my H and go to my EA, but I never actually was able to go through with it. I have tried to explain the fog to him without trying to make it sound like I am making excuses for my actions. He says he wants the "why" not the justifications I made up. But at the time, the screwed up justifications were my "why", regardless of if they were f**ked up. I had cut my H off from a part of my heart and I didn't care if I hurt him. I was going to quit on us because it seemed easier, but it didn't work out to be easier. I only screwed it up worse. Now that I am "all in" with my H, I remember why I stopped doing this years ago. It sucks.It hurts. He is angry and refuses to meet my needs. It is very frustrating. He keeps saying he will never write to me again, that it is over, we are divorcing, he never will have sex with me again, etc. Then the next day he writes me a letter or has sex with me. It is confusing and misleading. IDK how long I can keep this up.


Me: 34 mad hatter
Him: 35 mad hatter
Married 17 yrs
Kids: 18 yo step-son
Me: EA 2006 - 2012 off and on.
Him: PA 2009 - 2010, prob more I don't know about.
Multiple D-days.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2012
tired girl
♀ Member
Member # 28053
Default  Posted: 11:00 AM, October 13th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Pecia,

You may not want to hear this from me and if so just tell me,

This,

I tried to explain to him that I didn't start things up with my EA until he was acting suspicious
Justification

And this

but I never actually was able to go through with it
(minimizing)

are both things that should be left out when giving a timeline.

This would be why he is getting upset and asking for your real whys.

This puts the blame on him, rather than keeping it on you where it belongs. Regardless of where your M was at the time you did what you did, you had other choices and you didn't take them. That is why it upsets him to hear that.

I understand that he is in the middle of doing his own thing right now, but you need to focus on your issues as well. Why did you choose to handle this in the way that you did?
Figuring out your issues is the best thing you can do for you right now. You can't figure him out. And you can't control him.

Big hugs, this stuff isn't easy.


Me43 Him 43 Hardlessons DS 24,22,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
Fear is a natural reaction to moving closer to the truth”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 3663 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az
thegooddokta
♀ Member
Member # 35641
Default  Posted: 11:26 AM, October 13th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hey guys, things went from bad to worse when R became D. He filed and informed me during a MC session. Since then he has begun to self destruct. He joined AFF, and had to gall to pay for w/my CC. I was able to get his profile and its so disgusting. He has been going out, sleeping out, and having sex with people. I ended my A and have been NC since May, and intend on staying that way. WH reconnected last week with AP. I may have sent her a copy of his AFF profile............needless to say things are getting ugly. He refuses to move out of the house during the D to live w/one of his parents. We cant afford 2 households until the house sells. This is becoming a disaster. The sad part is that I was willing to do the work of R, and was in IC and making important changes. He used my A as an opportunity to allow his SA to flurish. I hope he gets the help he needs so that he is capable of caring for the kids....


Me- BW 43
Him- WH 35
1stDday Dday 4-19-12
Married 9 yrs
Divorce sched for June 2013
2 kids 5 & 8

W/H-currently has a new girlfriend. We are still living in same house.


Posts: 118 | Registered: May 2012 | From: CT
pecia
♀ New Member
Member # 36941
Default  Posted: 3:44 PM, October 14th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

tired girl,
I know it sounds like I am minimizing it. At the time I did it I was using a bad marital situation as justification for what I was doing. I was just trying to explain to him my rational at the time. He just refuses to accept that the fog had me acting really stupid. I think that if he were acting better right now I would have an easier time of owning my shit but everything I say to him is met with something negative. It is really hard. Currently, he is being a bastard. I came home from work early today and I can't find him. I know that he is out cheating on me. I feel it. And it is driving me crazy. I want to punch him. I want him to try with me and he is not hearing it. I don't want to throw away all of these years. I am having a moment. Not the good kind.


Me: 34 mad hatter
Him: 35 mad hatter
Married 17 yrs
Kids: 18 yo step-son
Me: EA 2006 - 2012 off and on.
Him: PA 2009 - 2010, prob more I don't know about.
Multiple D-days.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 6:17 AM, October 15th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Gooddokta, that sounds really terrible. I'm sorry you are going through a messy D now too. Be sure to get STD tested and get him off any of your credit cards and bank statements ASAP. Also consult a L and move your half of the money, if he is self destructing you don't need him bringing you down with him.

I hope both you and pecia can be good to yourselves and focus on your healing despite the stuff your H's are doing. You cant control them or their choices, just take care and protect yourselves, sisters.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
etaoin
♂ Member
Member # 33270
Default  Posted: 10:45 PM, October 15th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Well, here I am. Despite being betrayed, and with a pregnancy in the mix, I stayed for a long time. But I hurt every day. Every day. The pain was unrelenting and my fWW had completely let herself go and was not listening to anything I was trying to say to get her to change. So I checked out emotionally and was just marking time and then met a woman that I thought was the perfect match. I started an A with a MOW. (YES. I know). I moved out and got a place for myself. My AP lived a long distance away so we spent hours texting and talking on the phone and shared our unhappiness with our spouses. But when we were together it seemed like magic. I wont' go into great detail, but let me say that EVERYTHING on this board is correct. The fantasy, the fog, the rewriting history, the selfishness, the cruelty to the innocent spouses, the refusal to see that it was lust not love, the undying passionate promises, the phone sex, the cyber sex, the real sex, the secret meetings, the money wasted, the time wasted. The emotions wasted. All gone now. She tells me she can't leave her H. BUT she loves me. So after a time of having my mind go from despair to rage to numbness, I finally realize what a fool I have been. And how I have been lied to and used. And I am killing myself with self loathing. Right now I have blocked her on FB, deleted all her texts and emails and voicemails (I had a bunch)and we are in total NC mode.

So here is where I am. My W still wants to get back together, but does not have any idea of the extent of the A. I suspect she has been dating somewhat during the S. She has made many positive changes, but not enough to make me want to go back. I agreed to at least talk about it. I suppose the first thing to do is tell about the extent of the A. The thing is I think it will set back the many changes needed for R. So I will not be moving home any time soon. I have no idea where I am going on this. But I really want to guard against making her a backup plan.

The other thing is, despite everything, I don't know what I will do if my AP contacts me. Half of me says to tell her there is no way I can go on. Half says that I could find happiness...but that is the fantasy talking. Right now, I have a powerful mad on for her and would love to give her a real frontal assault of full on venting. But life being what it is, I don't expect that will happen. The other thing I should mention is that it is possible I will have to see her as we work in the same field. She might quit her job, but I can't as I am self employed.

The other shoe I am waiting to drop is my AP's spouse. He knows about the A. I think they are trying to R, but I really don't know if he has any idea of the extent of the A. I cannot control his conduct, but what should I say if he contacts me? This is entirely possible. Do I give him info or is that my AP's job. I am torn on this one and would welcome ideas.

So let's see. I have been a BH, a WH, an OM, and now am a jilted OM who has been blindsided. I trusted a woman implicitly who was lying to her H of many years. Then continued the A by lying to him after he found out. I showered this woman with love and affection and compliments and gifts and time and money. I opened my heart. I talked about everything. We did things she claimed she never did with her H. Whenever we would part she would cry like a baby.
The whole time she kept saying she was going to leave him, but never did. There was this reason and that. This promise and that. A few halfhearted attempts. I look back and think: how stupid could I be? The answer of course is that I have been lied to as well, but could not see it for the monumental wishful thinking = the fog. I've read a lot about how an A affects the dopamine receptors and is addicting. It's true. I've read about how you don't see your AP for what she is, despite the evidence in front of you. It's true. I've read about how you hate the BS. It's true. I read about how you don't care who knows and who gets hurt as long as it keeps going. It's true. I've read about the people who are enablers and cheer you on. It's true.

Here is the saddest part. I know I have a long road of healing and suffering and giving pain and repairing all kinds of things. I hope I am up to the task. But I still love my AP. How do I get past this? How do I stop thinking about her? I am so hurt, but I love her. God help me.

I don't even know what I am accomplishing right now by writing this, except to say that the people on this site really were right all along. i knew it inside, but did not want to believe it. So if you are thinking about an A as payback, or if you really think that other person is the right one for you, get a D first and do not take up with someone who is in a M. Save yourself!

Ask yourself: have you ever wished you were in a passionate love of the kind they write books about? Well I used to back in the day. I thought I was entitled to it. I thought it would be wonderful. I thought it would be fun. here is the truth. It's hard. Very hard. And the ending is murder.

Thank God for this site and the people on it.

[This message edited by etaoin at 10:49 PM, October 15th (Monday)]


Posts: 229 | Registered: Sep 2011
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 11:43 PM, October 15th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

etaoin - I don't know if I really have any words of advice, but wanted to let you know you have been heard.

I personally would not contact the AP's BH, going with the whole NC = no new hurts concept, which seems to be proven over and over with members of this site. I think your job right now as far as the AP is concerned is to work on detachment, and to stay out of their marriage in any way, shape, or form. If the BH contacts you asking for information, that dynamic may change, it may be beneficial for him to get that information from you, and there are hopefully other people on this board that can advise you when and if that happens.

I'm still confused on whether you are attempting R with your wife or not. Is R on the table? Where did your relationship stand when you began your A? Was there an agreement on whether or not you would be seeing other people?

If your you and your W agreed that you could see other people, I don't see that as a betrayal towards your W.

OTOH, the fact that your AP was married adds a whole layer of complexity to the situation you are in.

Sounds like a tough spot to be in. I guess all I can advise is to live authentically moving forward, to be true to yourself, and to be true to your W if you are attempting to reconcile. Living truthfully is the best way to go.

Wishing you the best as you work through this. We're here for you.

Take care,
Losfer


Posts: 4514 | Registered: Dec 2010
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 12:50 AM, October 16th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Etoain,

welcome to MH. This is a safe forum to talk and share and hopefully gains some insight through other people's contributions.

I am very grateful for the MH forum.

Here is a link to a thread in SI that my H. found pretty helpful:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=137622

It is absolutely in YOUR best interests to stay away from your AP.

Your post is loaded with all sorts of stuff, that just for now I will not comment on. Because it seems very raw.

But absolutely as much as it will continue to hurt you must withdraw from you addition to your affair. Just like many wisdoms you have accepted from SI, please hear this ...

your connection and addiction is not really the AP. It is the Affair itself. The AP is only your own reflection.

Good luck with these early stages.

MegM


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
etaoin
♂ Member
Member # 33270
Default  Posted: 7:12 AM, October 16th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you for the kind replies. As for R, I don't know. I read about the fog and how it falls away and you start to see what you have lost. But in truth I was miserable for a long time, so I just don't know. I am still living alone, and that is not going to change for a while. However fWW wants R big time.

The A started about 2 months before I moved out. W knew something was up, but not with who or how extensive.

As for loving the A rather than the AP, I think you are right intellectually, but emotionally all I can think of is her and how what I thought was truth got yanked away and my heart and mind went with it. I hate to say it, but I think I could really use some counseling. I feel like such a failure.

I so needed your advice. Thank you again.


Posts: 229 | Registered: Sep 2011
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:35 AM, October 16th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

etaoin - I've been where you are at. At times like this I had to remind myself of the facts - do I/can I really love someone who cheats on their spouse? someone who perpetuates a lie? do i really want someone like that in my life? Because that is your AP...
That is also yourself and you need to figure out why you did this... you have lots of healing to do and I wish you luck. You can do it.
Go NC with AP and see the clarity you get a few months out.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

“Courage is the price that life exacts for granting peace."


Posts: 3634 | Registered: Dec 2010
etaoin
♂ Member
Member # 33270
Default  Posted: 8:06 PM, October 16th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Meg. Thank you for the healing thread. Maia has me to a T. I think I am in the mental bargaining stage right now. Plus bubbling of anger every 10 minutes or so, with a dash of denial so much to absorb.

Rachel. Yes. I have to see myself as well as AP. We are both cheaters. We both saw what we wanted. I can't even fathom how long a road I have to get back to normal. But I will not let this thing define me for all time!

Feeling a smidge better today since posting. I refused to look at my cell phone for hours. Usually I am checking it every 15 minutes to see if she texted me.

I had no conception of how therapeutic it was just to post on here.


Posts: 229 | Registered: Sep 2011
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