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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
JustDone
♀ Member
Member # 9742
Default  Posted: 1:37 PM, September 4th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((beachbunny)))

Vent away, we all need to do that sometimes.

I used to think that being a madhatter was easier in some ways than 'only' being a WS, but now I'm not so sure.

I hope you are feeling better, I know I was totally drained when I was severely anemic.

NO one deserves this.

Big Hugs!


Forgiveness is giving up the possibility of a better past.

Nobody forgets what happens, the secret is learning to live with it.


Posts: 2764 | Registered: Feb 2006
rainfan
♀ Member
Member # 32117
Default  Posted: 10:13 AM, September 11th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

OK, here goes.....confession time for me. I am a madhatter. An EA, online and phone only, ex BF just prior to meeting my WH. I guess my WH was my "rebound" guy that I ended up marrying. There was no breakup, no closure with the ex BF, we were young and just moved to different cities with no communication for years. I reached out once by phone, after I was married and right after I had first miscarriage, that WH completely ignored and swept far away under the rug. At that time it was just the one call, and he wasn't home. Fast forward a few years when Myspace was gaining popularity, I looked him up, we messaged just a bit, I was unhappy in marriage, this is probably around the time WH's A started up, WH was a terrible husband and even worse father, but still it was just the hi, how are you to the ex BF on Myspace. A few more years go by, Facebook is starting up, marriage in an even worse state, WH working away for a month at a time, he was not physically involved with OW during this time, and my EA has started. This was 2009, not even a steamy affair, really just a friendship, but inappropriate nonetheless. A year later DDay, I tell WH about facebook communication with ex, he wants to know if I missed the sex with ex from so very long ago. I admit that I did. Rugswept. My EA waxes and wanes, but never really ends, ex BF has tried to see me in person, I declined because I don't want to be the "infidel" in my marriage, but it is all I think about. I should have left this marriage all those years ago, and especially right after DDay. Yet, here I am. Unsatified, just as unfaithful as WH who had a PA, maybe even moreso.


BS 41
WH 39
7 year old child
M 9yrs
Together 16yrs
DDay 9/28/10

Posts: 170 | Registered: May 2011
hardlessons
♂ Member
Member # 35025
Default  Posted: 10:55 PM, September 13th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Rainfan, sorry your here, but welcome.

So, what now?


Me WH
Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
whensitover
♀ Member
Member # 31207
Default  Posted: 3:46 PM, September 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a madhatter, do you not feel the overwhelming desire to help those in JFO or the BS?? I read their stories and I just want to scream at them and say "YOU ARE BEING PLAYED!!!" Especially when I see someone post about the "symptoms" of their WS, about how they don't "understand what is wrong, or why they are behaving in such a way" For example: A few months back, someone posted in general about their wife not wanting sex, he suspected, but she gave him an excuse of this and that, and then he was upset because she wouldn't let him see her phone, but later said she 'felt that was invading her privacy' and he agreed with her!!! And I am just wanting to just bang my head on the wall!! I know that my own experience of being a WS helped my experience of being a BS SO MUCH! And I have had friends that knew of my affair years ago, and when they told me of their spouses infidelity, I could easily look at it and say "He/She is lying to you" And they knew that that I was right. It just frustrates me so much.... I never knew how devastating my affair was until I, one was betrayed myself and two came to SI and see the devastating effects of infidelity, Just wish I could do more, being a Madhatter ties my hands even further.

Posts: 422 | Registered: Feb 2011
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 6:12 PM, September 17th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Actually I do not read in JFO anymore because I just plain don't belong there. My DDay was my husband's as well. This isn't completely "the hand I was dealt." I am responsible by half as well.

As far as the helping tell BS that their WS is blowing smoke... If they wanna know what we think, theyd post in "questions from BS to WS" or whatever that thread is, right? I do see your point that they just dont always see when they're getting played.

My BH/WH has been at it longer than me, so he knew what the phone-hiding, sketchiness was all about. He had done it himself. He knew to be worried about me because he had been there himself and just didn't get caught.

Unfortunately the WS experience has not helped my BS experience because I got both those hats in such close succession. I'm still really overwhelmed and I think it all depends on if you were BS or WS first if it helps you deal or not.

All that said, because I am a WS, I am more patient and willing to stand by my H as he works on his Sex Addiction. I am more willing to understand how things can snowball and then you dont want to tell your spouse about your cheating.

This is why, for me, how our R goes is almost wholly contingent on post DDay actions. Not so much "is ___ a deal breaker for me".


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 12:30 AM, September 18th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a madhatter, do you not feel the overwhelming desire to help those in JFO or the BS?

Yes, there are times. I still go through the JFO forums from time to time looking for other guys in an OC situation. I think there are a lot of them out there, but not many of them seeking out support. When I do find a guy in an OC, or potential OC, situation, I can't help but PM them.

When it comes to some of the 'standard', gaslighting, rugsweeping, blameshifting issues... I leave those posts alone. There are enough seasoned veterans on this site that are strictly BS's that can handle those posts way better than I could anyway, and provide a much safer place to land, as opposed to my viewpoint of both a betrayed & cheating & OM ass that I am.

I guess what I'm saying, is that if you have a certain aspect of betrayal that does not have a whole lot of support... it doesn't hurt to PM those folks to offer a helping hand.

When I first joined the site, I got PM'd by a couple of waywards showing support, with the preposition of "hope you don't mind". I didn't mind. Their support was still support, and I appreciated it. But then again, I knew what I did in my past, so maybe I am off base...

I think it's all about intent and support, personally.

Any other opinions?


Posts: 4571 | Registered: Dec 2010
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 1:13 PM, September 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello,

I guess i am the new resident MadHatter.

I didnt realize there was a term for us folk - and to be honest, i am not sure if i am a BS yet, as all i did was catch my husband in a lie - not in the arms of another woman.....soooooo....

My hope is that i can find a keylogger soon so that i can get more information to see what's going on. I was searching for them and ran across a thing about this website, so checked it out.

I really wish there were like buttons on some replies, cause i find myself wanting to like alot of what people are saying.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
WheredoIgonow
♀ Member
Member # 27130
Default  Posted: 2:11 PM, September 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After all I've learned over the past few years on this site, I realized that I probably could put myself into the category of a MadHatter - because I realize the strong emotional feelings I had with a co-worker 20 years ago would be considered an EA... I thought back then since it wasn't a PA - then I wasn't really doing anything wrong. We were "just friends". Boy, since reading that book and a zillion posts, I see that I was wrong.

The sexual tension was strong between us and the emotions intense. We were both married with young children and had good spouses. We backed down and I got a new job - but truly have remained friends - but more like aquentences - since we knew we were sharing way too much.

It turned out that his wife ended up cheating on him and she divorced him. He's remarried to a wonderful lady.

Then 3 years ago, when I found out my FWH had been cheating on me for over several years - I was devestated.

Two main thoughts. I feel like did this happen because of my EA 20 years ago? The Karma thing.

Secondly, I think if I hadn't have experienced those strong emotionahl feels for my friend during the EA - I would have likely not tolerated any of my FWH's withdrawal of his last AP who he was "in love" with. I really think I would have kicked him out so fast. But because of my own experience - I knew it wasn't that easy to turn the emotional switch off.

I tried to explain this to him when we were having serious heart to heart talks in the early days after the As came out.... and explaining that I thought I was in an EA 20 years ago. He kind of just poo poo'd it because it wasn't a real "A" like his....

Whatever....He doesn't realize that I was a lot more forgiving of his A... because of my past experience.... and the pain I've experienced has been unbelievable.... and I don't think he really understands that....and though I would not want to purposely hurt him - it does cross my mind that he WOULD know how I feel - if I had really went farther 20 years ago. But I didn't and I'm not proud of that time back then - and have fully committed to my spouse and children. I hope he really does the same.

Anybody else have some of these similar feelings?


Me; BS (54)
Him: WS (56)
Married 29 years
DD-28, DS-26, DS-18, DS-16
OW#1 - PA - 4 1/2 years
OW#2 - EA/PA - 5 months
He thought she was his soulmate - was going to move out- confessed about OW#2 when asked. OW#1 revealed them.

Posts: 605 | Registered: Jan 2010
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 3:08 PM, September 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I honestly dont know what i would do if it comes to light that my husband is having an affair.....

part of me would want to work it out, the other part would be not so forgiving.

Before we got married, this was a huge topic considering our start. We agreed that cheating is not and option and that it is the dealbreaker of all dealbreakers....

Now i am petrified that we have put ourselves in a spot....if he is, and i choose to work it out, then I am going back on our deal - so now, what other deals will he get away with?....

I dont know....i hate being in the position. I do feel that karma is driving up to pick me up and while i gladly accept my punishment - this could change the life of our children in ways that they do not deserve.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
LosferWords
♂ Guide
Member # 30369
Default  Posted: 5:10 PM, September 19th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Anybody else have some of these similar feelings?

Yes, absolutely, WheredoIgonow!

I relate to your feelings about Karma so much that I could have written those words myself.

One thing that helps me with this is realizing that my A and my wife's A are totally unrelated, and should be treated separately. Treating them separately can definitely be a challenge, but it does take away a lot of the "tit for tat" mindset, along with alleviating some of the feelings of being run over by the Karma Bus, although I doubt that feeling will ever completely go away.

I also feel like my experience as a WBF/OM has given me some compassion towards my wife than I otherwise might not have.

I also have the nagging feeling that the guilt of my A over all these years could have caused me to turn the other way when red flags would come up.

Complicated stuff, and mentally frustrating at times.

[This message edited by LosferWords at 5:11 PM, September 19th (Wednesday)]


Posts: 4571 | Registered: Dec 2010
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, September 25th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I wrote this to my fWH/BS last night and gave it to him. He said "it must have been hard to write" and "Day by day" and I also mentioned SI and he said he didn't have time for that stuff. I'm really having to heal on my own I guess. It's been ages since he's initiated an I love you or you're beautiful. I feel very alone but strong:

MrRachelC,
I see you are hurting so much. I donít know what to say but that I can see your anger is simmering beneath the surface. I can see you trying really hard. I can see that you donít want to talk about what happened Ė your or my situation, and I can understand this. I wonder if what I did was so painful that you havenít really looked at what I did, itís just too painful to contemplate. Dealing with it must be so difficult and Iím guessing thatís why there was acting out. So I suppose itís true that I am to blame. This is very hard for me to admit. I hope for your sake that you can come to some acceptance of it, no matter what happens to us. I want for you a life of happiness. You deserve it.

I donít know why I ask questions. Part of it is that I really want to know what was in your head then. But, I was a wayward and I know exactly how it works. I think one of the reasons I ask is because I donít want you to forget how much it hurt me. I suppose thatís manipulative. Iím guessing some point we (I) have to realize that talking about it is impeding our recovery. Although at five months out itís still pretty raw.

I donít have to tell you hate this pain too. I donít know how to get better. I wonder if some of my anger towards you is really anger I have for myself. I donít know but Iíll ask my therapist. I keep reading, thinking that maybe this book or that one will be the magic bullet. I donít know if it makes things better or worse but I do know I feel better by being active and trying.

The only thing I havenít done is let go, just let go of everything that pertains to you, no control, no expectations, no requirements, or conditions and just fucking live and love you... and heal myself, because thatís the only person who can really heal me anyway.

I hope you never forget the many good times we have together, even now! We do have fun and we enjoy our friends and the kids and working out together and our cocktail walks!

I think if we are not talking about what happened we are one of the most considerate, selfless couples I know. We are always doing things for each other and I always think of this.

You are the best thing in my life, thatís what makes this so difficult. I think you are a wonderful man and Iím glad to be married to you.

With gutwrenching honesty and love

RachelC

[This message edited by rachelc at 7:41 AM, September 25th (Tuesday)]


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďGrief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.Ē


Posts: 3672 | Registered: Dec 2010
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, September 25th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((rachelc))) thanks for sharing. If I gave something like this to my H I know it would really touch him.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
rachelc
♀ Member
Member # 30314
Default  Posted: 8:15 AM, September 25th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have no idea what he thought of this.... I have no expectations of him. I'd like to be in a relationship with someone forthright with emotions but right now he's not.


his Ddays: 2/10, 7/11
my Ddays: 1/12, 4/12 broken NC 12/12

me: 47
him: 51
4 kiddos in lower 20's

ďGrief does not change you, Hazel. It reveals you.Ē


Posts: 3672 | Registered: Dec 2010
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 8:47 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Guy: Wouldnt be a bad time to trade seats with "other friend in class"

DH: No Sh!t did you see her ass in the mirror on that last break.

Guy: Yep

DH:Damn she has some nice tits, she knows everyone looks at them.

Guy: Should file sexual haraasment, for distracting

DH: I just want to grab them, is it worth lossing my job and marriage over?

Guy: what happens in (training) stays in (training)

DH: Wonder if she sees it that way.

This is the text exchange that i found this morning...

I want to puke - He tried to justify it by saying that it was with another guy - that I could feel different about it if it was with the girl.

This is beyond the line...he hopped skipped jumped and then volted over the line in my opinion.

as a fWS i feel like this is my karma bus - but almost 5 years later seems a bit harsh

as a new BS - this shit sucks hard - I honest to god go back and forth from "well, it probably is just joking between guys" to "how the hell does someone do this as a married person, who has a fWS as a wife and has his own past. He KNOWS this crap is a big issue...."

I want to curl up into a little ball, instead i have to be at work and pretend all things are good. hate hate hate


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 9:15 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Not cool, undefinabl3. Sorry you saw that. How did you find the text exchange? This guy friend is not a Friend of the Marriage. Just as you need to maintain appropriate friendships, so does your H. Talking about some girl like this may have been "regular" male posturing and "being a bro" but its wrong and can lead to bad things, and you know it, which is one of the reasons I imagine you're so upset.
DH: I just want to grab them, is it worth lossing my job and marriage over?

What the fuck.

I'm sorry undefinabl3. ((((undefinabl3))))


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 9:33 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I just looked at the dates of the texts....I figured out that this teacher/trainer girl as beent here THE WHOLE TIME...

What other texts dont I know about...His way back history has been doing girls at his jobs - so now i get to worry "what's he doing on his hour long lunch breaks?"

I want to puke, i need to puke, this is horrible.

I honestly cant fing believe i was EVER an WS...this BS shit sucks - I have so much more respect and love for the BS's here i cant even begin to explain it.


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
pecia
♀ New Member
Member # 36941
Default  Posted: 10:35 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hello,
New to the site. I have read posts for days and days and I think I am ready to contribute. I just feel lost. I am torn between being angry about being a BS and feeling guilty about being a WS. This sucks. Especially when I feel my H is probably going to have a RA. Any suggestions?


Me: 34 mad hatter
Him: 35 mad hatter
Married 17 yrs
Kids: 18 yo step-son
Me: EA 2006 - 2012 off and on.
Him: PA 2009 - 2010, prob more I don't know about.
Multiple D-days.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 11:12 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Undefinabl3, lots of hugs to you. That sounds really shitty. Have you talked to him/ confronted?

Pecia, sorry you find yourself here. SI is a really great resource and I'm grateful for it. I hope you can find some help here. I think it's normal to struggle with the guilt and outrage and being a WS and BS. What makes you think your H is gonna have an RA?


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
pecia
♀ New Member
Member # 36941
Default  Posted: 11:18 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks for the reply NothngElseMattrs. I hope so I find some peace here also. Its kind of a long story (details on my profile), but the gist of it is he is exhibiting wayward behavior. He eats, sleeps, showers with his phone. It is never out of his sight. It is locked (and I don't know the code) anyway. My gut says he is up to no good. He is still pissed at me (as this is still new) and has said he has thought about doing it just to get back at me. He doesn't want to R, I do.


Me: 34 mad hatter
Him: 35 mad hatter
Married 17 yrs
Kids: 18 yo step-son
Me: EA 2006 - 2012 off and on.
Him: PA 2009 - 2010, prob more I don't know about.
Multiple D-days.

Posts: 17 | Registered: Sep 2012
Undefinabl3
♀ Member
Member # 36883
Default  Posted: 11:54 AM, September 26th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

He texted me at lunch - im sorry - i didnt think the conversation was wrong.

I am still hurt and defensive....i wanted to tell him to shove his apology and his phone up his a$$....


Me: 31 MH
Him: 37 MH
~Some days are better then others~

Posts: 1617 | Registered: Sep 2012
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