Cheating Hurt by Infidelity
Betrayal Wayward Donations lying
Welcome

Forums

Guidelines

Find a Local Counselor

The Healing Library

Media

Contact Us
lies
cover
In Association with Amazon.com
Support
Infidelity -
-
Find a Local Couselor
You are not logged in. Login here or register.
[Register]
Newest Member: Minty (43205)

I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 1:35 PM, August 11th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

girlfromipanema-
Hugs back to you. I hope you find peace!

Bb-

Not sure if there is a Facebook thread on I can relate, but I see it as such a catalyst & problem site for people & it would be great to work out those problems together.

This is a great idea, I bet there are a lot of people that would be on board with an ICR thread for this. Mods, great idea right here!

Bb, you are really being genuine and brave. I hope you know that you are helping others dig deep and find that bravery and desire to well and truly heal as well.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 2:24 PM, August 11th (Saturday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM-

Thank you.

I feel the same about everyone here, the breakthroughs are amazing & give me breakthroughs as well.

Detangling the messes that our lives became is so worth it.

I am also so grateful that you are all here on my dark & cloudy days when clarity seems unattainable to me. I literally have to force myself to check in here, but at least I have a "here" to check in to.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 4:11 PM, August 12th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you all for the responses. Its been very confusing and triggery in noescape land of late. I did take steps towards *something* concrete, alas, its led to more roller coaster and unsure outcomes. Posted for the first time on D/S since it seems like the only way to go right now. Limbo was getting far to comfortable for her and extremely uncomfortable for me. I cant stand to be constantly hurt, disrespected and abused - albeit that she will never recognise it as such.

I was looking for ides on separation which would spell out CONSEQUENCES in big bold letters for her, any advise on that front would be helpful.

What struck me most was how cold and calculating she is (once I look at her reactions and words objectively) and I cannot believe the amount of compartmentalisation she still processes to go through this (discussing A stuff, discussing consequences, discussing her actions). I'm gobsmacked to say the least.

Her ICs have been largely useless in moving her towards any healthy outcome (for her or her stated aim of recovering the M)


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 4:29 PM, August 12th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

noescape-

I still need to go back through your other posts, but since my sister's in town, I don't have alone time to do that thoughtfully. I will though.

I was looking for ideas on separation which would spell out CONSEQUENCES in big bold letters for her, any advise on that front would be helpful.

Please talk more about this. Can you please elaborate on what you are looking to attach consequences to? Then maybe I can give you some ideas since badchoice and I are separated.

(((((((noescape)))))))))


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 1:39 AM, August 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks bb for the response

here is the post I alluded to:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=466936


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 1:52 AM, August 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone.

I am sorry so many of us have had such hard weeks. I know the harders weeks are sometimes the ones that bare fruit... but sometimes they don't also. And then it is just exhausitng.

NE (ooops yes I did mean YOU NE):- Your posts have always helped me reflect and I have appreciated your candour and honesty on many occassions. I am trying to remember in your story if you and your W have children?

I understand you have been together a long time and you have had to deal with TT for a so long - with the added complication of your own A (the arftermath of wich can so often smokescreen other issues and our S's behaviours).

I hope it is ok if i ask you some Q's.

You are seeing her behaviour as cold and calculating. That she has no remorse. Do you know (in your heart) that you deserve to be with someon warm and empathetic? Someone who would do not harm?

I don't mean in your head - I mean in your being?

Because you do!
You deserve to be with someone who will not drag you into their dark places, and attempt to trap you there because they fear being alone.

So in terms of consequences - I am not sure. Are you looking for actions you can take that will MAKE her look at her behaviour?

Because if she is cold and calulating and still after all this time has no remorse, I think you need to be looking after yourself. To step out of this dark place and break free.

Maybe when you are - that might compel her to leave it behind too.

Maybe.

Take care NE. I hope it is ok for me to say these things. You are VERY welcome to toss it aside as my ramblings.

(BB - NEM - I have had the flu Too - anyone would think we had given some bug to each other. I am just on the mend. )

I have been pottering around in MH, but have been 'lurking reading' for about 72 hours straight with naps in between.

I have decided that I dont' think this is good for me. So I am going to limit myself mostly to Wayward & MH forums now.

I think I have been doing my own head in hanging around in JFO & General. Kind of feeding my BS self. Does this make sense?

Because I still feel very raw in dealing with his adultery. And there has been those recent behaviours of his. I get really caught up in the stories. And I over identify with the 'wronged' party. So I am pulling my head out of my 'you know' what.


I need to go back over the last couple of pages on this thread. and will post some more.

thoughts to all of you here.

MegM

[This message edited by MegM at 6:10 AM, August 13th (Monday)]


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:45 AM, August 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM - Your posts have always helped me reflect and I have appreciated your candour and honesty on many occassions. I am trying to remember in your story if you and your W have children?

My guess is that this is directed at me (not NEM). Yes, we have 4 little ones with the youngest in at 4 months.

I understand you have been together a long time and you have had to deal with TT for a so long

Indeed, it seems that the TT never stopped. Every time she claimed it had, there was always more-even at the 1 year mark and some 'details' even spilled out as recently as 4 months ago (thats 2 years after DDay and multiple TT days after that).

- with the added complication of your own A (the arftermath of wich can so often smokescreen other issues and our S's behaviours).

Yes, indeed it has. I know that its not to be ignored. I DID do everything I could at the time (DDays, etc..) and since then to give her what she needed (without her really telling me (PA/CA behaviour)).

I hope it is ok if i ask you some Q's.

Sure

You are seeing her behaviour as cold and calculating. That she has no remorse. Do you know (in your heart) that you deserve to be with someon warm and empathetic? Someone who would do not harm?

I felt we had a chance at forgiveness and true remorse and rebuilding. Its all be laid to waste. I wanted to extend forgiveness and love as much as I felt I deserved it (through hard work, labour, remorse and introspection/change). The simple answer is: Yes.

I don't mean in your head - I mean in your being?

Because you do!
You deserve to be with someone who will not drag you into their dark places, and attempt to trap you there because they fear being alone.


I must admit that I tried a LOT to get in her dark places to *help* her (KISA/codep anyone?)

So in terms of consequences - I am not sure. Are you looking for actions you can take that will MAKE her look at her behaviour?

Because if she is cold and calulating and still after all this time has no remorse, I think you need to be looking after yourself. To step out of this dark place and break free.

Indeed the consequence I seek is to free myself with minimal negative consequences (my fear is for the kids and the financial devastation.

Maybe when you are - that might compel her to leave it behind too.

Maybe.

I dont know about this one. I am not so invested in HER outcome. I need to protect myself and my own. Just an example of her immense compartmentalisation processes: when we were discussing what the D/S would look like and the negative (obviously) impacts it would have on the kids... she had the temerity to say "dont you care about the kids?"... I mean wtf?? wft??? excuse me wtf??? like hold on a wtf second... wtf????

Going by her posts (a few here on SI) and her past claims of over 2 years of "wanting R" and "this time I wont mess about" and "i screwed up with the TT, no more, I need to fix this" etc... etc... and YET not "DOING"... well-lets just say I had every right to shut her down then and there and ask "WHAT DO YOU CARE FOR THE KIDS IF THIS IS THE CONSEQUENCE YOU LED US TO?"

I dunno, I may be way off the mark here but it just seemed so shitty for her to state that.

Take care NE. I hope it is ok for me to say these things. You are VERY welcome to toss it aside as my ramblings.

Thank you for saying these things. Sometimes though, I beg that people 2x4 me as much as possible. The hard facts are usually those which you find hardest to swallow and look at. Those are also the things you (I) suddenly realise you NEED to do.

Thank you again.

I also agree with the sentiment of reading too much in general (I stay away from JFO) of increasingly over-identifying with the wronged party. Though I read a lot in ICR (which I feel is my safe place-here and BM) and in wayward-where I learn every day from what some great WS's are doing and the kind of advise they receive. My W never extended me (us?) the opportunity to heal from either of our A's, she only wanted to make things worse... yet I know that I MUST learn what I can and change for my own good.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 6:21 AM, August 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sorry for my typo ... yes that post was for you No Escape!
quote]I am not so invested in HER outcome. I need to protect myself and my own.
.... can you hear the applause NE??? Good!
The 'Maybe' ... was about being open to serendipity. but things may have moved past this - I think it is great you are in this mind set.

and this ...

Just an example of her immense compartmentalisation processes: when we were discussing what the D/S would look like and the negative (obviously) impacts it would have on the kids... she had the temerity to say "dont you care about the kids?"... I mean wtf?? wft??? excuse me wtf??? like hold on a wtf second... wtf????

I just don't understand. I know in blinding moments of selfishness we have all acted in ways that have been against the interests of our kids (or we would not be hanging out here in MH). but I can't understand how in the cold light of reality staring in the face of my own wretchedness (and I mean this in the sense of 'a wretch like me') I could ever think or say such a thing.

When I have been in the depths of despair the worst part of my pain was not being able to crawl out and protect my babies..

Oh NE it must have torn you in two to hear this.

so you are right it is time to protect!

What is your plan from here?

I think your concept of 'harm minimisation' is very wise.
Again I am not sure about the consequences thing. I think it feels like something that is interacting with her stuff to even think about consequences and her.

Would it be more freeing to think about the life you and the children deserve, what are the steps that will lead you there and what are the protective mechanisms you can have in place for 'harm minimisaton'.

(Understand it may not be wise to post specifics here.)

(Edited cause my typos were terrible!)

[This message edited by MegM at 6:23 AM, August 13th (Monday)]


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 11:45 AM, August 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

so you are right it is time to protect!

What is your plan from here?

(Understand it may not be wise to post specifics here.)

NE-you have the right & duty to protect yourself & your kids, all with respect that your wife is the mother of your children (even though you may be very upset about that).

Here's a link to a co-parenting agreement that is very respectful:

http://www.cadivorce.com/california-divorce-guide/parenting-through-divorce/co-parenting-agreement/

It sounds like you are coming to accept that your W is not going to change & you cannot change her. So yes, time to minimize the damage, protect yourself & kids.

Are you attending any CoDa meetings? Reading any books?

I am reading "The New Codependent" by Melodie Beattie. It's been great.

Do you know your boundaries? Do you have some consequences in mind if they are violated?

So, she has been saying "R", but not in action, correct? Did you both have an agreement on "actions" for "R" (written, agreed to, a "by when" they will happen?)

badchoice and I have agreements & I need to update the consequences. He has supervised visitation for now (my parents are facilitating this for us). The agreements include that he is in 12 step for SA & DA, IC, and proving that he is attending all these.

(((((((noescape)))))))))))


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 2:17 PM, August 13th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Just a quick check in:

My sister & niece are leaving today, I want them to stay forever. My sister is so loving & wonderful. She makes me feel good about myself.

We were talking & she had said she was too drunk & out of it to have sex with her H on their wedding night. I told her me too. I feel that badchoice feels that was an indicator of our fucked up marriage. It made me feel so bad. My sister said plenty of her friends didn't have sex on their wedding nights & it was no big deal.

I felt better about that. I really feel badchoice feels something very negative about it. I will speak to him about this tonight.

I am tired most days & struggle with the very real reality that badchoice has been lying for 15 years to me, if not more.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 2:54 AM, August 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

BB
I am tired most days & struggle with the very real reality that badchoice has been lying for 15 years to me, if not more.

I am so sorry you have this to carry.

The word TIRED captures so much doesn't it. Sadness, anger, hurt, exhaustion.

I said it to our therapist last week. I am TIRED.

I understand.

Tonight I am making my home made chicken soup. It helps me to feel less tired. I sometimes wish someone would make it for me ... but it wouldn't quite be the same. I would like to invite you all over for some!

It is easy, Yummy and soul food. You all let me know if you would like the reciepe! I will pm you or put it up somewhere.

Take care eveyone. I am not haveing a great day.

I found BF's iphone backup that I did with an extractor after DDay. Forgot about it as couldn't retieve the deleted texts.

I stupidly looked in the file and noticed a folder I had missed before so retrieved it. And there were a few texts in there from him to her.

I had not seen the actual texts before. Him saying ... Hurry up I want to call you on my way home. Don;t take to long! I only have 40 mins before I am there.

Also giving the address to the place for their lunch date for one of the meet ups.

I feel annoyed at myself for looking and then feeling all the predictable feelings. WHAT DID I EXPECT!

No new information - just a razoring of old wounds.

so for now - it is chicken soup time.

Welcome also to our newer members of MH. I am very pleased some of the wiser members were able to respond and support you. I have been coming to this thread for over a month now, and it is a special place for me.

I hope it will be for you too!

MegM


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 4:22 AM, August 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thank you MM and BB for your responses. My answers all over the place. Hope you both get/feel better soon.

I couldn't agree more :

I am tired most days & struggle with the very real reality that badchoice has been lying for 15 years to me, if not more.

The word TIRED captures so much doesn't it. Sadness, anger, hurt, exhaustion.

So true. Seems like i'm the only one who really cares about the outcome. well, I did. Now i am focusing on MY outcome (and the kids). I dunno-its coda central I suppose-trying to "save her", "save the M", "Save the situation", etc... and having nothing but apathy and insincerity to contend with.

No new information - just a razoring of old wounds.

Work through it, you cant change the past. it is what it is. Had a major trigger on the drive to work the other day. Lost all concentration, was about to become a heap on the steering wheel and only just held it together. Oh well... at least it wasn't one of the spectacular mind movies WW has condemned me to for the rest of my life


Are you attending any CoDa meetings? Reading any books?

started reading codep no more. and a few other articles. I get the gist. Culturally and from my own beliefs and background, I wouldnt really go into a group or counselling. As long as I can identify the behaviour and find ways to break free from old coda habits...

Would it be more freeing to think about the life you and the children deserve, what are the steps that will lead you there and what are the protective mechanisms you can have in place for 'harm minimisaton'.

Other than "not wanting to reveal too much", there's no doubt that the kids need her and she needs them. In general, I would not have any major complaints about that carrying on; what bothers me though (in the long term) is the emotional health of the kids given the history of W & her mom (and probably a few generations out); i.e. addictions, self-loathing/esteem issues, toxic shame, PA/CA and emotionally abusive coping skills, lack of fidelity in the family and as a social construct, manipulation, etc... As for myself, then the plan is not well thought out-its like a "get out of imminent danger and cancerous/toxic situation before it engulfs and destroys you" problem right now. Not a "this would be better than that" kinda dynamic (at least internally and in the toxic relationship dance its gotten into between the two of us).

Thanks for the co-parenting link BB-anything on separation specifically? I've been looking for stuff on in-house and normal separation and what it looks like: Terms and conditions, go and no-go areas, agreements, duties, rights, etc...

Do you know your boundaries? Do you have some consequences in mind if they are violated?

My boundaries are (have been) continually violated. Only, I had not attached clear consequences to them. For the kinds of violations (lies, deceit, Emotional Unavailability, no work or remorse or anything on fixing the M, breaking promises, lack of transparency) the only response is UNSAFE M in bug BOLD letters-i.e. S or D... I dunno if there WERE any other consequences I could have attached. All I have done now is also attach a time frame which was never done previously. I feel REALLY REALLY unsafe with someone who is (or can be) so cold, callous, calculating, manipulative, deceitful to the extreme (extreme TT since DDDay), abusive, disrespectful and insincere.

So, she has been saying "R", but not in action, correct? Did you both have an agreement on "actions" for "R" (written, agreed to, a "by when" they will happen?)

Not till now we didn't. Yes, I had written it out-SHE asked for it. We have been here so many times before. Since DDay, I could count at least 5 to 10 times we've "worked" on getting to R together. She DIDNT act on it consistently. You see, the problem here lies with the lies :).. (and isn't infidelity all about deceit if anything? if you read a recent thread on general; when asked about "what hurts the most", the number one (like 90% of responses) was the lies)

There is no way in hell she'll convince me she has told the truth-because she doesnt even KNOW how to BE truthful/honest or vulnerable. Thats because (blame it on PA/CA) she will NEVER engage at a level so deep so as to be vulnerable enough/open enough to ADMIT and ACKNOWLEDGE who she is (both good and bad) and WHAT she's done (choices) - SPECIALLY with me coz I am her H and primary relationship and she HAS to protect herself/her image from me first and foremost. What a sad and pathetic way to conduct what is supposedly the closest relationship you can have. Yet that is what I see it for now after all these years.

Someone here recently mentioned RA and some other thoughts surrounding that and I would say this: WHY DEMEAN YOURSELF? the prefix to an Affair is still a prefix-a sick justification for a horrible act. More than your spouse-you'd be cheating on yourself. Imagine being a perpetrator in the rape of your own family. Well, thats what ANY A is to a spouse and to the kids.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
married2stranger
♀ Member
Member # 34492
Question  Posted: 11:57 AM, August 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

WH and I have been together since I was 16 years old (I am 29). We moved in together the month after I turned 18, we had been together for about 1 1/2 years. A couple months after we moved in together things were not going well. I was depressed (have suffered off and on with MDD for most of my life), he lost his job and was not working, my 11 year old sister was living with us due to my biological mother (with whom I have no relationship with) being incarcerated, and I was homesick - I missed my Dad, and I was having a hard time dealing with being a grown up (paying bills, groceries, cooking, cleaning, etc.) All my friends were out partying all the time and had no responsibilities so they couldn't relate to my problems.

I started going out to clubs with my friends and drinking a lot! One night i drank WAY to much and my friend and I ended up leaving the club with some guys who had been buying us drinks. I ended up messing around with one of the guys but things became REAL pretty quick and I realized what I was doing, we didn't do enything besides make out and touching above clothes ...as soon as it hit me I left! The guy called me the next day but I didn't answer my phone I didn't ever talk to him, by WH (boyfriend at the time) found out b/c my "best-friend" told him what happened, only she told him I had sex with the guy (recently discovered all this and her and I have not been friends for a while because she was causing so much drama with me and WH, she used to date his twin brother and she was trying to break up me and WH) After he confronted me I told him everything, stopped drinking or going out at all and we fixed things between us. Everything was great, he proposed a couple years later, we got, married, had a baby, everything was great.

About 2 years after we got married I went out one night with an old high school friend who was in town for the weekend. My boss shows up at the bar, and starts buying us shots and then asked us to go to another bar where some of his friends were. We go, no big deal. One of my boss' friends is hitting on my friend who was 1/2 his age. She flirts back, they continue buying us drinks...she is bored, calls some people and we left and headed to another bar. I very rarely drank and this was all routine for her. So, I was totally wasted and wanted to go home but she was my ride! My boss' friend keeps texting me about my friend and she takes my phone and there were several inappropriate messages sent back and forth also I will admit I was participating in the texting as well and sent some of the inappropriate messages. She was joking and thought it was funny, however when I got home that night my WH saw my phone, read the messages, and did not think they were so funny. He also did not believe r that I didn't do anything with any guy. I offered to leave my job, told him the truth about everything I could remember, never really talked to my friend after that. He was okay, and I maintained a professional relationship ONLY with my boss. He checked my phone everyday, and could see nothing was going on. He said everything was fine.

Now in light of his PA of 3 months in which he felt he loved OW1 as well as his "joking" inappropriately while trying to convince his "female best-friend" (OW2) to have sex with him. These past two incidences have been thrown up repeatedly.

This bothers me for a couple of reasons:
1) If he really did forgive me and move past these instances then it should not be used against me in future arguments and if he didn't he lied and allowed me to believe he had for all these years. If it bothered him he could have said something and worked through it together instead of him holding onto those feelings and building up so much resentment towards me.

2) While we were in a relationship and living together when I went home with the guy, we were not engaged or married and I don't view it in the same manner I view his PA. He broke vows he made to me in front of God and our family and friends, I broke trust and a promise to him. I am not trying to say what I did wasn't bad...it was!!! but I don't think it was as shattering or as significant as his affair.

I guess my question is am I still a Madhatter? I donít really believe I am, yes I cheated when we were dating, so I can see how that would make me a MH. Yet, I feel that being MARRIED is extremely different in terms of commitment and exclusivity. Had he cheated prior to marriage I donít think it would be as devastating to me because although it is wrong and very hurtful, marriage should be sacred and there is a difference and bond created that is not present when you are dating someone. I am not justifying my cheating, I just view our relationship differently after we were married.

My other question is if this has not bothered him for 11 years, why is it suddenly coming up now? He does have problems with compartmentalization so has his A just opened the box, or is he trying to justify and minimize his A by bringing all this old stuff that I thought we had worked through back up?


D-Day - 10/22/2011
Married 5/29/2004 together 13years!

(Me)"I've been called worse"....
(WH)"Oh yeah, like what?"
(Me)"YOUR wife!!!"


Posts: 135 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: Limbo Land
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 4:40 PM, August 14th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Married2stranger-
I am just gonna give you my quick 2 cents as I only have a few min break...

Comparing wayward behavior (A's, poor boundaries, etc) is not going to heal you, your WH, or your M.

Yes, I think you participated in wayward behavior prior to your M. Yes, you say your WH knew about it and seemed "over it" but my guess is he wasn't and may have suspected all along.

No, that is still not an excuse for him to have an A.

You don't want to think you are a madhatter... I'm sorry, but cheating is cheating is cheating. There is never an excuse. "but we weren't married" dismisses the pain of everyone on SI whose WSO cheated. Just because they weren't married doesn't lessen their pain.

You both need to "own your shit."

My WH/BH cheated on me for a year before we were married. He took back up with his ex and fucked her for a whole goddamn year of his relationship with me. He still hoped that maybe things would work out with her, told her he loved her, he bought her lingerie... all while he told me he loved me, said she was out of his life (gaslighting, cake eating, etc etc). He never told me. He married me and had ample opportunity to come clean. He never fucking did because he knew it was a dealbreaker for me. He tricked me into marrying him under false pretenses.

I am an asshole and had a ONS 4 months after we got married, still unaware of his A with slutbucket OW. On D Day when I came clean, he decided he finally had to tell me about his A because he couldn't take holding it in anymore when I was being honest about my shit.

My pain is NOT any less than his pain, just because of the label on our relationship at the time his A occurred. We have to work at it, but we cannot compare A's. Any sentence that begins with "well at least I didn't ____" or ends with "...not as bad as what you did" is unproductive, and we do our best to keep those off limits.

When you invalidate your H's pain, it is hurtful to him. He probably did compartmentalize your shit. Still doesn't excuse his A.

...this turned out way longer than I meant... but yes, to answer your question, IMO you are a madhatter. This thread is a great resource and there are some great helpful folks on here. Please stay and keep posting. I hope you don't take my words too harshly, I do not mean to sound mean.... but wayward behavior is wayward. Cheating is cheating.

I wish you and your H luck on your healing journey, and I hope to see you around. Hang in there!


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 1:05 PM, August 15th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

(((((((MegM)))))))))

No new information - just a razoring of old wounds.

I understand. I'm so sorry. Pain is still pain, yes? I hope your chicken soup made you feel better.

Sometimes I visualize myself in a boat floating away from the pain, getting further & further from it. It calms me. In my mind I escape it in the ocean, it makes me feel better. I cry in that boat, I don't act out, I just cry. I've tried everything I could over my lifetime to run: drugs, people, alcohol, food, no food, etc....now there is only crying, grieving, acceptance, change, new choices...no more running...

((((((noescape)))))))))

I've been thinking a lot about your circumstances & the clarity you have, it resonates deeply with me & I feel like I can really relate to your posts.

I understand that you have a great deal of insight into what you are dealing with, but have you embraced "you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it"?

I ask because I am wondering if you are still waiting for your WS to change? To show progress?

Thanks for the co-parenting link BB-anything on separation specifically? I've been looking for stuff on in-house and normal separation and what it looks like: Terms and conditions, go and no-go areas, agreements, duties, rights, etc...

I bought this book a few years ago: Should I Stay Or Go? : How Controlled Separation Can Save Your Marriage by
Lee Raffel, but badchoice has it right now. I don't remember how helpful it was.

My boundaries are (have been) continually violated.

For the kinds of violations (lies, deceit, Emotional Unavailability, no work or remorse or anything on fixing the M, breaking promises, lack of transparency) the only response is UNSAFE M

I'm getting that your boundaries are "not being lied to, WS being remorseful, WS being emotionally available, WS being transparent, WS keeping promises", is that correct? And the consequences are? How can you protect yourself & the kids knowing that you cannot compel WS be honest, emotionally available, etc?

PA/CA with a lack of empathy & remorse is a tough hand, no doubt, and we all deserve a warm, loving, empathetic and connected partner. Keep repeating that-all of us. Also, keep repeating that we cannot change others (AND, stop waiting for someone to change. I think coda's have a too high tolerance for "betting on potential")

NEM-

That is some really great "straight talk"!

we cannot compare A's. Any sentence that begins with "well at least I didn't ____" or ends with "...not as bad as what you did" is unproductive, and we do our best to keep those off limits.

Amen. "Own your shit. Sort yourself out without expecting others to do it for you. 100% responsible for your life. 100%." All good stuff.

married2stranger-

First, welcome & hugs. This is a very special thread that is full of amazing insights due the unique shared situation. I hope you find it helpful.

My other question is if this has not bothered him for 11 years, why is it suddenly coming up now? He does have problems with compartmentalization so has his A just opened the box, or is he trying to justify and minimize his A by bringing all this old stuff that I thought we had worked through back up?

After my WH/BH's latest A was exposed & he entered IC, my A came up for him. He never processed it 15 years ago, never had asked the details. He is feeling the pain, hurt, and anger of that now because he is de-compartmentalizing & beginning to feel. I thought that he was bringing it up to blameshift, but it's clear that he is just letting himself feel now.

We went over the details for the first time (ever) about a week ago. He cried, got angry-felt everything a true BS normally feels, I understood & recognized every feeling.

Hope that helps.

Hope SH & JM are ok out there...sending love & light to this thread....

[This message edited by beachbunny at 1:08 PM, August 15th (Wednesday)]


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 10:10 PM, August 15th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Bb-
Thanks
Hope SH & JM are ok out there...

Yes, I hope yall are doing ok, even if you're not posting.

Thank you to noescape, Bb and MegM for your posts. Yall have so much strength, it inspires me.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 11:06 PM, August 15th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the words & wishes NEM & BB.

Married2astrnager:

My experience is a lot like BB's

After my WH/BH's latest A was exposed & he entered IC, my A came up for him. He never processed it 15 years ago, never had asked the details. He is feeling the pain, hurt, and anger of that now because he is de-compartmentalizing & beginning to feel. I thought that he was bringing it up to blameshift, but it's clear that he is just letting himself feel now.

This is nearly exactly what my H was doing. Also though he had a special type of mind movie going. He was transposing his and his AP's actions onto my A. He was imagining the build up, the 'courting' the flirting etc, the stolen glances when he wasn't looking etc.

We had a big sit down and then did a session in MC on it.

My A was very different to his in it's nature, length and MO. So a lot of what he was imagining was much worse than the fact. This is when he really needed the details. To reality check his imagination.

I am not sure if that helps but I guess my H. was looking at my adultery through his own special looking glass! This was causing him a lot of pain.

now that he is dumping his compartmentalising - he is in pain over my adulter - but at least it is based in reality. And not a blurring of his own actions. and DITTO to all that NEM said! (she says it so well)

No escape: I am thinking of you. I know you are at a very hard juncture. Please get some advice. I think it is time you need to get the full legal picture. so that you can make fully informed decisions. I understand you are in deep pain. We are hear to listen!

BB - thanks for you calm and kind words. today feels a little better - I hope it does for you too.

Thank you NEM, BB & NE for your kind words re: my self inflicted reopening of wounds. Today... I am looking for my polly positive, if you find her can you send her home! Please? But I put on my big girl pants today. Nearly had a little budget conflict with BFreddy - but told him to grow up ,,, police the budget himself ,,, iam not hear to hold him accountable for his small choices. He needs to do that for himself. He can tell me about it later. Just don't mess with my head!

I feel good about it - won't bore you all with the mundane domestic details ... but he was pulling avoidant tricks and then manipulating me to be the one to 'call him out' Stuff that! Too tired - too sick - to over it!

Just call me ToughMeg!

((Hugs)) MH friends.


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 11:14 PM, August 15th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

iam not hear to hold him accountable for his small choices. He needs to do that for himself.

You ARE ToughMeg!! What do you think motivated him to make his choices and then want/try to get you to hold him accountable/ be the BF police? Is he attention-seeking?
(((MegM)))


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 4:28 AM, August 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Can't sleep.

You folks talking about not reading on JFO, etc are right. I need to stay the F out of there.

Someone has a thread about their WSO cheating, both young, my age/WH's age when he cheated.

I wish I had known about his A 3 years ago. 2 years ago. 6 months ago.

What would my life have looked like if I had known???

I am so sad.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 5:39 AM, August 16th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((NEM))

not sleeping is cruel!

I am trying to ween myself off JFO & General.

Today I posted in General - there hav ebeen so many threads about 'contacting the OW. So I put up my portion of our NC letter.

Just in case it helps anyone.

When I wrote it she had broken NC (that she 'demanded' from my H. - he never broke it - but she couldn't help fishing ...)

So then we showed her how NC is REALLY done.

BF wrote an amazing letter - full of remorse and giving her no uncertainty that she will always be is one big regret ... an NOT because she go away!

I dished up a nice warm serve of 'dignified concience'

It must have been the trick as she has never broken no-contact. Not involved herself in our community group. She did keep up pics of my children on her profile for months. Then I messaged every FB / email of hers I had simultaneously demanding she remove them. So she did. She still didn't break NC.

I am just rambling NEM to keep you company.

I am sorry you are feeling sad! lets make a JFO free zone

No I find myself in there much to often and for far too long.

Now I understand I am MH and can't post there ... it is even more bizarre the amount of time I spend reading.

Today i have the sad bug too! crying a lot - had a big fight with my DD1 about stupid facebook!

Cried after it!

Felt cross with BF - no real reason - cried about that!

it is bullshit how much one person can cry!

So - have read of my NC letter - it might cheer you up!

It cheered me up - even 6 1/2 months later.

I have sleep issues from time to time. Don't have many tricks once it sets in. but to avoid it I do things like drink peppermint tea in the evening.

Rub eucalyptus / menthol rub into my feet and put on socks.

Don't read too much at night.

Try to stay awake to 9pm at least so that I won't wake at 3am.

NEM -- try to clear your mind. and stay the F out of JFO! (especially before bedtime)

((NEM))


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
Topic Posts: 1000
Pages: 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · 18 · 19 · 20 · 21 · 22 · 23 · 24 · 25 · 26 · 27 · 28 · 29 · 30 · 31 · 32 · 33 · 34 · 35 · 36 · 37 · 38 · 39 · 40 · 41 · 42 · 43 · 44 · 45 · 46 · 47 · 48 · 49 · 50

Return to Forum: I Can Relate This Topic is Full
adultry
Go to :
madness  
© 2002 - 2014 SurvivingInfidelity.com. All Rights Reserved.