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User Topic: MadHatter's Only Thread
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 5:56 PM, August 5th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like everything I've known is gone. I feel like he died.

Am I grieving? I don't know.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 6:55 PM, August 5th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

NEM:
This shit wouldn't fly if it were me pulling it, I must be the world's biggest pushover for tolerating it from him.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
this . Exactly this.

You deserve exactly what you would offer him. Consideration, accountability and transparency. Your A does not diminish your right to expect this, ask for it and RECEIVE it!

It may not be the right time whilst he is still nursing his head - but putting in place your boundaries and holding to them is absolutely the challenge in front of you right now.

I have to acknowledge the added complextity and vulnerability your LDR creates for your situation.

But you mustn't allow it to enable him to not meet your condidtions of R.

It is the hardest part of being on both sides of this crap. Getting clarity on what are real and healthy boundaries. You are not applying double standards. But it seems he is and that is NOT OK!

BB:

Am I grieving? I don't know.

It seems you might be BB. And it may also be why you have become sick too. Our bodies sometimes have a funny way of making us stop. It is time to nuture yourself. Time to restore yourself. And we are here!

I understand completely why even seeeming unrelated self-indulgent compulsive choices of our parnters are a very significant issue.

Like bragging with friend to inflate an ego, Or a phone call to someone with poor boundaries to get some flattery and ego strokes, or compulsive shopping for ME ME ME!

It is all part of the same behaviour. It is why it sets of the screeching in our heads.

The good news. He recognised after he did - He called you and acknoweldged the game playing he nearly ventured on.

But... it might be too little right now for where you are at. Especially if you have moved into a cycle of grief just now.

NEM / WJH & NE - I can't click back pages and there is lots more I want to pick up on - so I will repost again and scoot back to those posts.

Oh and a quick catch up on how things are travelling here -

I withdrew last week - feeling a lot like BB sounds to me. Was sick with a head cold and just shut down. Like others of you. I did not feel affectionate. i did not have I Love You;s to offer. My body was telling me somehting was wrong.

since that phone call BF has been very 'busy' with wor At therapy last week we addressed the phone and he was stuck on the "Why did I flirt" Why didn't I just email and as I said in my earlier post ... I was stuck but why did you need to have any contact or even engage with this person.

so by Friday night - I put all that to him. I said that I had withdrawn and that he had done no work since therapy on the Monday to look at the issues. To seek or find. I said I wanted him to sleep seperately to me and that he had broken a condition of R and had done nothing trustful to repair that.

We worked through this all weekend.

He acknowledges that this behaviour began with him becoming obssessed thinking about my A. That he was feeding himslef wayward thougts of entitlement. That he had worked hard enough and I wasn't 'appreciating' it.

He also acknowledged that some of this behaviour taps into a bit of 'vengenance' and feeling justified.

He also feels the biggest issue is that when he was feeling like this he was not brining it to me. He was sitting on his feelings. (I said and creating your own 'private space').

He states this behaviour and mindset is fundamentally wayward and is not ok in our M.

So we have therapy today and we are taking all these observations to that.

One step at a time.

((Hugs)) and friendship to all of you. I hope others continue to join and gain as much as I am from your insight and friendship.

Meg


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
MegM
♀ Member
Member # 34941
Default  Posted: 7:07 PM, August 5th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Okay ... post two picked up the rest of the quotes:

NEM

How much do yall feel like the whole "listen to your gut" thing applies?

I feel it absolutely applies. My instincts tell me when he is feeding his wayward thinking - even thought it usually (with one exception) is not directed towards any other 'person'/. this recent episode has demonstrated that for me. That I need to be tuned into this. for my own behaviour . but also to make sure I am not 'accomdating' his crap.

NE:

But heck, if that spidey sense is tingling-DO NOT IGNORE IT. EVER.

^^^^^ Hear Hear!!! NE - you wise soul.

rachelC welcome back - been wondering how you are going. I totally agree:

The gut doesn't lie. But, what a burden it is to have to be tuned into it all the time. I just want to be, ya know, just be...

SH:

(then again, maybe I need to watch my own attitude. I don't need to be getting ego hits from how my husband talks about me to other people). While I'm happy he didn't talk much about us actually (I value our privacy),
Sure this true ... but if this

I notice a significant difference in tone when he talked about me versus when he talked about the girl he pursued. His tone sounded alive when he was going on about her.
Then again, he told me that he told one of his friends once that he couldn't go out with him, and his friend's response was, "What, is your old lady breaking your balls again?" NothngElseMattrs, you hit in on the head: he calls all of them "bro!"
is the case than I think it is a problem too! We don't want false flattery and ego strokes. But we deserve appreciation. We deserve to not feel another is being held above us in our H's esteem. We deserve respect and care for our vulnerable emotions while we heal. and if this behaviour is what you expected to accomodate and then I think you are not being offered these things and I think it is ok for you to include them as what you need in a healthy relationship.


My thoughts are with you all. Hve any of you hear how Jenna's Mum is going?

MegM


BS / fWS- me 41 (@ DDay)
WS / BS - him 39-BlindFreddy (@DDay)
My DD's 13 Jan 2012 / 29 Jan / 27 Feb (Trickle truth for 5 wks)
His DDay Dec 2003 (details 06/12)
Married
3 children (6 - 16 at discovery)
remembering "Sunshine on my shoulde

Posts: 561 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Australia
noescape
♂ Member
Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 5:29 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

JM just had a revelation that her H has ALWAYS been cheating on her.

And this was the guy who got extremely indignant when she accused him of suspicious behaviour.

Sometimes I think, post DDay, one MH definitely takes on the full time role of being the asshat wayturd foggy lying deceitful disrespectful head in ass WS from hell...

Just saying...


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Am I grieving? I don't know.

Grieve, dont fight it. One of the most important things I learnt. Grieve the loss of the M, of who you thought you married and probably of who you thought you were.

The sooner you start processing and going THROUGH that grief (rather than avoiding it) the sooner you will find yourself moving to a healthy place.

You cant wish a different past, you cant wish for a different WS in your past either.


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:41 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

The good news. He recognised after he did - He called you and acknoweldged the game playing he nearly ventured on.

Heck! that much better than what I can EVER expect or have expected in the past 2 years. So feel a bit better about it, but attach consequences. Its good that at LEAST he is communicating.

I said that I had withdrawn and that he had done no work since therapy on the Monday to look at the issues. To seek or find. I said I wanted him to sleep seperately to me and that he had broken a condition of R and had done nothing trustful to repair that.

Why do they do that (no work)? Like "lets play pretend that nothing happened/is happening". Thats compartmentalisation to the extreme. Calling him out was good. Consequence was better.

He also acknowledged that some of this behaviour taps into a bit of 'vengenance' and feeling justified.


I "SEE" this all the time. No, we dont talk about it. We dont talk about anything. Her dynamic, her choice. Whatever. I'm not dancing to that tune anymore.

^^^^^ Hear Hear!!! NE - you wise soul.

Had to be a complete fool to find out the HARD way. Why oh why do I ALWAYS choose the HARD way???

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 7:48 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

double post.sorry

[This message edited by noescape at 7:48 AM, August 6th (Monday)]


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
noescape
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Member # 34888
Default  Posted: 8:03 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I told him he needs to come up with weekly plan of how he is gonna recover & become healthy so he can have the kids back in his life because impulse buying doesn't show me clear judgement & healthy choices. I can't have the kids around that or starting to emulate that. I also asked him to come up with a contingency plan when he travels-loneliness & boredom trigger him & then he acts out.

Seems like you're trying to coach him/be his IC/MC. I know it may be something you two have decided on before or something the both of you have engaged in... In my sitch.. I know that this is what our failed MC wanted us to engage in. MASSIVE FAIL because she never felt accountable.

Fact is, all he needs to be with you is transparent. YOU should attach consequences. His work on his problems should be just that: HIS. His awareness is about consequences. THAT should be his incentive-rather than have you in a role of someone dictating things to him.

I just dont feel we can police someone for the rest of our lives. They get to CHOOSE their behaviours and it means they also get to CHOOSE the outcome. As for impulse buying-it should just be a Joint Agreement. He doesnt get to violate that unless he wishes to violate the M or your boundaries. The minute he does-its an indicator for you to establish a consequence.

The same applies to the contingency plan; it shouldn't all be about controlling an impulse (and you trying to goad/coach and help him with it). It should be about BEHAVIOUR-he changes his behaviours and CHOOSES healthy. His beliefs should then follow his behaviour-WORK HE NEEDS TO DO (reading, IC, changing behaviours and SHARING with you how/what he has changed his beliefs about). The more you think and work on HIS behalf, the less inclined will he be to want to change anything or do the work himself.

That may all just be me bullsh*&$ing, but I see a clear difference between a parent/child dynamic and a dynamic between spouses. The one thing I have seen is that *some* in the counselling community would prefer that you suck on their teats for the rest of your lives (keep 'em coming back like crack addicts). Fact is, as adults, we need to OWN our choices, not divest responsibility somehow to an IC (or our spouse). Divesting responsibility=*expecting* the IC (or a spouse we are doing a "program" with) to hold us to account. OWNING=holding ourselves to account.

What the spouse gets/expects/deserves is transparency, honesty and explanation of our remedial work. Yes, maybe we can ask for assistance on this one thing or that other thing - but in general - the work should be on OUR shoulders.

As a spouse-its our responsibility to IDENTIFY a hurtful/unhealthy behaviour and how/why. Its then up to the other ADULT in the relationship to a) not give a damn (and face consequences), b) own the behaviour and find ways to NOT HURT their spouse.

[This message edited by noescape at 8:10 AM, August 6th (Monday)]


Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
silverhopes
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Member # 32753
Default  Posted: 11:09 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

As a spouse-its our responsibility to IDENTIFY a hurtful/unhealthy behaviour and how/why. Its then up to the other ADULT in the relationship to a) not give a damn (and face consequences), b) own the behaviour and find ways to NOT HURT their spouse.

Ahh, you said it so well! I need to remember this. It goes right in line with boundaries - my favorite topic in the healthy department!!!

Sometimes I doubt if I've made my boundaries known. And then there's this site I used to read, called "The Truth About Deception". Pissed me right off. Said that you have to make truth-telling safe for your partner, and while I can understand that somewhat, I think the site placed too much emphasis on "Well, if you don't make it safe, guess what? You're going to get lied to" (could be my misinterpretation of what they're talking about). To which, in my head, I asked, "But aren't we supposed to be responsible ADULTS?"

sh, i hope you can maybe learn something from my experience. its only a power struggle as long as both of us are looking for an outcome from the other. I no longer have anything invested nor do I expect anything but the same shit from her, and you know what? Its liberating.

That is a very wise point. Like Aikido. Whatever you feed in is what you get out. Sounds not just liberating, but healthy, because you feel clean inside when you're not harboring the drama.

Fact is, sh, YOU dont need to make excuses/"understand" your H needing external validation. Heck, its time the boy grew up and became an adult with being happy from within himself and with what he has and with what he MAKES OF HIMSELF-not what OTHERS think of him.

Good point! If I'm doing too much thinking for him, I'm not letting him grow up. I'm taking his knapsack. Thank you; I keep forgetting that. I'm trying to break my codependency tendencies (hey, that sorta rhymed!). It is really hard, I've had CODA issues for most of my life. Do you ever make progress, and then feel like you lose sight of what you were working on? Because the many new habits are so different from what you're used to? I'll be going to IC tomorrow, so hopefully she'll help. I learned some disturbing stuff about my grandparents this week, and it's kind of thrown me for a loop. I feel really out of sorts. And then overhearing him talking about the other girl... I know I'm supposed to be 180ing him, but I'm so confused. Part of me keeps telling me I need to "win him back", that I need to change my deficiencies so I'll be what he likes, figure out what about those other girls is so appealing (could it be that they have perfect teeth? perfect skin? are better in bed?), match that. As if I could. What unhealthy thought process did that come from?

Feel like I've lost my bearings.

her talking to "friends" (and APs and whoever else) and being cool and free and awesome and funky and cute and engaging and chill etc... and she had the DULL, PROTECTIVE, SIMPLE, UNEMOTIVE conversations for me.

But we deserve appreciation. We deserve to not feel another is being held above us in our H's esteem. We deserve respect and care for our vulnerable emotions while we heal.

Thank you, MegM. I think that was the distinction I was looking for. The mutuality of being in a marriage, a loving team, with someone.

I keep thinking that we have more control over our feelings than we think. I mean, we have to, right? We learn how to go mental NC with the APs by thought-blocking, by changing the channel, by a whole lot of good techniques captured on "Maia's Survival Guide to Withdrawal". We learn that when we want to do unhealthy things - like drink - we can see through the illusions of those "positive feelings" to the harm these things really do, and we don't invest emotionally anymore in pursuing alcohol. Or we redirect all of our misdirected energy towards our spouses, and use strong mental boundaries to retrain ourselves and build healthier habits, so we don't look for external validation outside our marriages.

Or maybe I am so determined this is possible, because I've been willing myself out of my depression since May 2010, when I had to stop taking my meds due to pregnancy and nursing. It's so hard sometimes, but I've learned good techniques, and I've learned I CAN do it!

So why then, should it be so hard for our spouses to decide to put effort into loving us? Water your lawn. If we decide to be in love with someone, we will be. We have more control over it than we think. But of course, I know why he'll water that girl's lawn. Because he doesn't think he has control over his feelings. And to him, it would ruin the specialness of his feelings if he felt he did. It would ruin the "magic".

...meanwhile nights happen like last night, where he went out with my sister (who he has admitted being v attracted to) and her bf and my sister's single friends, got shitfaced drunk, and he is puking all morning now.

OH. HELL. TO. THE. NO.

(((NothngElseMattrs))) I completely agree with you. This shit wouldn't fly, so why does he think he can do this? Because "nothing will happen"? Yeah right. Just going out with those folks, without you, and with your sister, knowing that you know he's attracted to her... OMG. There are just so many things wrong with this picture. How does his SA program feel about alcohol? And putting yourself in risk situation? OMG. I am so sorry, NEM. You must be in a horrible place right now. Is there any way for you guys to sit down and talk about this situation? Does he know how uncomfortable he's making you? And your sister ...with her updates, did she mention anything being off? Was she still with him at 3pm the next day?

I think your gut is screaming for very good reason, NEM. Do you have access to his phone records and email, Facebook, etc? Can you tell if OW tries to contact him?

some girl he knew from his last job (which was states away) came to town for work. He took her on his jetski, she showered in our bathroom, and they went out to dinner with another guy that they are friends with. I had THE WORST FEELING EVER when he told me about it after the fact. I think I bawled for half of that work trip, because I was just SO SURE that he cheated with her. My coworker on the trip with me had been married 3 times (he was older than my dad's age) and was trying to not tell me that he thought my H was cheating... but that's what he thought of the situation when I told him. I have this feeling that one day H is going to tell me that he did in fact do something with this chick. I've asked over and over so I don't ask anymore.

I would think he did too. At very least, showing her VERY inappropriate boundaries! What does he have to say for himself about this thing?

I can't imagine he'd hold back another meetup and tell me things like that he bought her lingerie and fucked her a few hours after fucking me and putting me on a plane (me in tears) to go back home.

(((NEM)))

Are you following why this is a problem?

Honesty, forthcomingness, and finances. And willingness. And impulse control. I get it. It's good that he called you to acknowledge it, bb, but it seems overwhelming. So much to work on... And it's not yours to change. You can be supportive, but ultimately he has to make those changes for himself. Maybe that's one of the harder things - realizing it's 200%, not only 100% - but 100% of the 200% belongs to our partners.


Find peace. Or sleep on it.

Posts: 3762 | Registered: Jul 2011 | From: California
2kidsandadog
♀ Member
Member # 33679
Default  Posted: 11:40 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Being on both sides can way mess up your mind. My ex wanted us to swing so the idea of having sex with someone else was minimized by him. I admitted to having a revenge affair only after about a year of discovering his debacled sex life (outside our marriage).

When it took him over a year to get an aids test and then got mad at me for not giving a shit anymore, I realized that sex with him, sex with someone else, or sex with a group was nothing but feeding his addiction, and it took whatever our marriage had and killed it inside my heart.

So, my feelings were dead. My life was dead and my spirit was beyond dead.

To this day, he looks at what I did as murdering someone. We would talk or try to about the different partners we'd been with. He, of course, was very egotistical in his descriptions of women and what they liked. When I spoke of things on my end, he became irrate and belittling.

No recovery was ever attempted and in the end he got what he deserved. Sorry folks but that's how I feel.


Divorced 05/11/11 -
2kids - 20 and 22 (Thank God for them)

Too many Ddays to count. Enough said!


Posts: 693 | Registered: Oct 2011
whatjusthappened
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Member # 34695
Default  Posted: 11:46 AM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MegM -

I withdrew last week - feeling a lot like BB sounds to me. Was sick with a head cold and just shut down. Like others of you. I did not feel affectionate. i did not have I Love You;s to offer. My body was telling me somehting was wrong.

I *know* the body reacts to mental and emotional stress in physical ways, but until you posted this, and drew the connection to BB being sick, I don't think I really processed it. I was very, very sick about 2 weeks ago (in the hospital for 2 days) with kidney issues and with as much free time as I had while in bed, never once did I realize that maybe the stress of all of this was catching up to me. There are a bunch of other A-related things I thought about while I was in bed which put me in a crappy mood that I still haven't shaken. As a result, I've been standoffish and/or picking fights with II4L and have been even more emotional than usual. I know this throws him for a loop, but I think it upsets and confuses ME even more. Just when I think I have something resembling a handle on my emotions - boom! - it blows up on me.

Sorry...went off on a bit of a tangent. I just feel like my head has been spinning the last few weeks, and I almost wonder if I'm into Round 2 of the Anger stage.

Anywho...

bb -
When MegM said

The good news. He recognised after he did - He called you and acknoweldged the game playing he nearly ventured on.
, I had thought the same thing when I read your post. I know that's probably little comfort when you've been dealing with this for so long and what with everything else you've had to deal with, but I did see it as encouraging.


Me - 39
Him - 38
Married 15 years
2 DS
Day my world crashed down: 12/22/11
In R. Most days.

Posts: 777 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: AZ
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 11:26 PM, August 6th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Good to see how busy this thread is. Of course it's sad we're all here, but it's very clear that each of us seems to be moving forward in our development as individuals. There's always great fellowship, advice and camaraderie here. Thank you all, I can't say how important it is to have this lifeline of folks going through the same shit I am.

Meg,

It may not be the right time whilst he is still nursing his head - but putting in place your boundaries and holding to them is absolutely the challenge in front of you right now.

I waited til he was "alive", and then calmly, clearly, laid out how I felt. However, I very specifically did not tell him *what* to do to fix himself. I am working hard at not being codependent and giving him the room to figure out what he needs to live responsibly and find a way to manage his addiction (SA). I have to say it took every fiber of my willpower to not tell him what to do (immediately schedule an appt with his IC, as he does not have a "standing" appt, get to a 12 step meeting, do more reading, stop drinking for a while... )
I have to acknowledge the added complextity and vulnerability your LDR creates for your situation.

I know, I know... it's one of the worst things about all this. It was "manageable" as we knew the state of our relationship pre-D Day, but now.. different story. Even my IC, who tries to be cautiously optimistic about my healing and the healing of our M, was skeptical that any real progress can occur until we live together (which will be months from now).
I said I wanted him to sleep seperately to me and that he had broken a condition of R and had done nothing trustful to repair that.

Gosh, this takes cojones.. you go girl. I hope I can find this strength if I need it in the future.

noescape,

The sooner you start processing and going THROUGH that grief (rather than avoiding it) the sooner you will find yourself moving to a healthy place.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but it is worthy to remind myself when I want to stuff this down.

silver-

Like Aikido. Whatever you feed in is what you get out. Sounds not just liberating, but healthy, because you feel clean inside when you're not harboring the drama.

Hmm... cosmic!
Just going out with those folks, without you, and with your sister, knowing that you know he's attracted to her... OMG. There are just so many things wrong with this picture. How does his SA program feel about alcohol? And putting yourself in risk situation? OMG. I am so sorry, NEM. You must be in a horrible place right now. Is there any way for you guys to sit down and talk about this situation? Does he know how uncomfortable he's making you? And your sister ...with her updates, did she mention anything being off? Was she still with him at 3pm the next day?

I knew they were going out together (he went to visit my fam cuz I had to work this weekend, so he went over there with my blessings), and I thought he could comport himself like a responsible adult. The fact that he's... fantasized... about her before, I just hope that his issues wouldn't run deep enough to say or do something around her, even when alcohol is included.
I don't think his SA program would particularly approve of his drinking that much. Many SA's have other addictions too. While he isn't a drinker (I'm more of a drinker than he is), when he does drink, it can be a real binge, as evidenced by this weekend. H knows how uncomfortable I am. He was apologetic and said it was unforgiveable and wouldn't happen again.. but all I could think was...
WORDS. Just words. I told him to SHOW ME with his actions that he is responsible/ trustworthy. I asked if he handles himself this way with "safe" people, how the heck will he handle himself in more "challenging" peer pressure situations. Of course I COMPLETELY forgot that he is in Vegas this week for work.

Goody.

I think your gut is screaming for very good reason, NEM. Do you have access to his phone records and email, Facebook, etc? Can you tell if OW tries to contact him?

I do not have phone record access, but I do have his password for facebook and email, assuming he hasn't changed it, and assuming he doesn't have a secret email. I do not have any way of knowing if OW contacts him unless he tells me, or if there is a facebook message in his inbox for me to find if I snoop.
I have never, ever snooped. Part of me doesn't want to have to snoop, but the day may come where I need to check anyway. He was very clear that he erased his electronic trail when he had his A, so I kind of feel like, why bother. if he is in facebook touch with OW, he would delete the messages as soon as he got them, I think.
I would think he did too. At very least, showing her VERY inappropriate boundaries! What does he have to say for himself about this thing?

re: the jetskiing alone with another woman incident... He insists that he has told me over and over that nothing happened. And that she showered in our bathroom while he was outside cleaning the jetski. And that he did not put her in the 2nd bathroom to shower because there was no curtain in the new house yet. (You can bet your britches I put a shower curtain up in the 2nd bath ASAP for the next time he has lady friends over to USE OUR BATHROOM). I have asked since D Day and the answer is always "nothing happened with this girl." His SA, from what little I understand of it, is a bit about fantasy/ mentally indulging... viewing "opportunities"... hard to think he didn't view this as an "opportunity" if this other girl had made a move.

2kidsandadog-

My life was dead and my spirit was beyond dead.

I'm so sorry (((2kidsandadog))). This sounds horrible. I hope your healing is progressing well?? What you said about your WH rings familiar with what noescape said about how some waywards really get into turd mode in the aftermath, despite both spouses being wayward.

ETA, forgot to say that sister said everything was "fine" and nothing untoward had happened/ been said/ etc. Part of me thinks she'd cover for him if something did happen, but she would be FREAKED THE EFF OUT if he said or did something *towards* her, so I guess I'd know if something bad enough happened. He was still there until the afternoon when he had to scrape himself off their futon and drive a few hours home.

[This message edited by NothngElseMattrs at 11:31 PM, August 6th (Monday)]


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
pbjkiki
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Member # 35145
Default  Posted: 7:33 PM, August 7th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm at rock bottom. I've reached a point where, if I got a tempting opportunity to cheat, I would honestly consider it. THAT IS 100% NOT ME. I never want to have to tell the next guy that I ever cheated on anyone.

It is literally so bad, that guilt/moral demotion/retaliation, etc, that you all describe here...would be a step UP.

I don't want to leave, but I can't feel this way in the relationship anymore. And I have zero faith that the restentment and jealousy will ever subside.

He is contrite, penitent, well-behaved, transparent, patient, accommodating, diligent, and unflappably apologetic. He's cut off all his behaviors long ago. But it is doing NOTHING to heal me or us. Why can't I let it go or get over it? I am 100% checked out. My friends finally encouraged me to get help/medication. I'm not me anymore. I am dead to the world. They are worried.

Pretty much what I've heard here is that it only makes things worse. Is there any case where a RA ever helped the BS?

Is it ever a superior option to just leaving?


Posts: 333 | Registered: Mar 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 7:58 PM, August 7th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pbjkiki-
You say your friends are worried about you. From reading your post, I am worried about you too. You are in a lot of pain. But the answer to your question and the answer to your happiness is not an RA. I cannot stress that enough. It does not help anything.

You will just loathe yourself and create more problems. If you are completely checked out of the relationship and so dissatisfied with it, and IC/MC are not helping... then perhaps now is the time to consider what your life would look like without your WSO. That is much healthier to consider than an RA.

His A may be a dealbreaker for you. For some, it is. I think you need to do some soul searching as to whether it was a dealbreaker for you before you look for or accept any opportunities for RA's. Wayward behavior is never the answer.

I am sorry for your pain. I hope you can find peace.


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Helpless  Posted: 11:45 PM, August 7th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Hi all,

Still not caught up. Haven't slept well for a bit & feeling darkly depressed.

Today was my birthday. I just wanted to die. WH/BH had brought something up about my A (I'll have to put in my sig-it's 15 or 16 years ago-1 month total of inappropriate office flirting + one quick french kiss-just trying to nutshell it, not minimize), something about him having the very quick " I kissed a guy" to I asked WH/BH to grow some facial hair similar to AP. I was gathering a timeline & details together for him & wanted to give it to him all at once, so we could talk & I could be there for him & answer all Q's.

He had brought up FB the week before (I had a really bad FB addiction in the recent past after becoming depressed ay trying to connect with WH/BH & being unsuccessful (he was in A2 with MOW#1 from A1 at the time, hence the distance), and I had remembered that I had contact with my AP on FB a couple of years ago. We had a mutual friend & both commented on the post. I said "hey AP". Then AP messaged me & we had a brief convo. There was nothing sexual, I was indifferent feeling, and never spoke with him again. I wanted to tell WH/BH, but felt conflicted because I wanted to give him the timeline. So I told him, but he had to leave for a meeting so I asked if we could please talk about this tonite (last nite).

So I gave him every detail I could remember plus anything my friend remembered (my friend worked with us at the time-she says she doesn't remember us flirting or anything).

WH/BH was upset, understandably. He got angry & he got sad, all ok, even though I cried & cried because I did this, I hurt him, and I couldn't undo it.
Then he got upset about my inappropriate & disrespectful (to him & our M) behavior on FB, when I was extremely depressed. He said some extremely hurtful things, and although I understand, and know I made unhealthy choices from my depression, it hurt so much.

I woke up depressed & like I wanted to die this morning. I've had too many of these mornings over the last 4 months since WH/BH's A3 was busted. I just can't take anymore pain. Just when I feel like I've hit bottom, there is another bottom to hit.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
beachbunny
♀ Member
Member # 35476
Default  Posted: 12:13 AM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

After WH/BH's A1, I worked so hard-MC/IC/Meditation...etc...I only found out a couple of weeks ago that he had taken A1 underground while we were in MC. It explains why he treated me so badly during that time. Not only did the A being exposed shatter me, but the meanness & hostility after exposure & during MC nearly killed me.

So to find out 2 months ago that he was chasing the MOW#1 for the past 6 six years & then to also have a A3 during Feb & March of this year...well, I'm pretty destroyed. That is an understatement.

I am beyond depressed & really just want to curl up in a ball & die now. I've just been crying nonstop for what feels like months. I don't see how I'm going to get better or feel better-ever.

A massive effort of support has been given to him. He says he wants another chance, but he's destroyed our M so many times & me. It feels insincere & I don't have it in me to survive any more of this.

I put my heart on the line so many times, just to see it crushed over & over.


BS/WW: Me 43 WH/BH: Him 45 (badchoice)
Me: EA/PA 1997 DDay 5/99 (see profile)
Him: See his profile-15/16 y LTA
2DS:5 & 11 my loves
You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice.

Posts: 678 | Registered: Apr 2012
whatjusthappened
♀ Member
Member # 34695
Default  Posted: 12:47 AM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

pbj,

I promise you, there is no "step up" in being WS. None, nada, zero. Not only will you still have your SO's A to deal (because that doesn't go away), but you get that PLUS your own guilt and shame to carry around trying to sort through. It doesn't just double your load, it grows exponentially. My H's A was not an RA, but he could tell you it doesn't make anything better.

You and I seem to have similar DDays. I know as recently as, oh, 3 hours ago, I felt a sadness and despair so deep over his A that I really just wanted to die. Sadness and hurt that deep cannot be described. Have you talked to your Dr. about AD's? Perhaps that would help. And perhaps his A was a deal breaker for you. If it is, that's okay. But please don't think that an RA will make you hurt any less. I can't emphasize that enough.

bb,

I was thinking of you today and hoping you were feeling better (physically). I am so sorry that this is adding to your burden. Gently, I'm wondering the same thing about you that I just asked pbj - are you on or have you considered AD's? You're concerning me because what you describe seems to be enveloping you to the point you can't escape it. You have definitely been dealt a shit hand with your H's A's (and I say that as someone who hopes that he can fix himself - not especially condemning him). I think as a MH, you are working very hard to figure out your "why", despite how painful that is, and you probably feel like he's not putting forth the same degree of effort (maybe I'm projecting, bc I totally feel that way). I have no magic words, but give yourself a bit of a break. You've been through hell.

Hugs to all


Me - 39
Him - 38
Married 15 years
2 DS
Day my world crashed down: 12/22/11
In R. Most days.

Posts: 777 | Registered: Jan 2012 | From: AZ
StartingOver917
♀ New Member
Member # 36391
Default  Posted: 9:27 AM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm new here and originally posted my concerns on the Wayward's board.
The last few days my emotions have been all over the place and it's hard for me to bring it up to him because he seems to be doing great going on like everything is great and I dont have to courage to bring "it" up. He acts like he just didnt find out that I slept with my ex less than 3 weeks ago and its driving me crazy!! (He is what I call emotional unavailable-a issue that has caused several problems throughout our relationship) I want him to be mad, hurt, pissed or something! Besides the initial blowup he's as calm as can be as nothing happened. Then I start having crazy thoughts like maybe he's not that upset because he never stop having his affairs and he feels like he really cant say anything because of his guilt. I just want to get off this rollercoaster but the looks of it it appears I am on it by myself. I want to talk about this but how can you talk to someone who acts as though it hasnt happened?!!!

Posts: 27 | Registered: Aug 2012
NothngElseMattrs
♀ Member
Member # 35917
Default  Posted: 8:36 PM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

((((((Bb)))))) I'm so sorry you have had so many bad mornings when you wake up. Have you considered AD's? It might help you get back on your feet a bit... 4 months is a long time to have to wake up every single day and feel that way.
A massive effort of support has been given to him. He says he wants another chance, but he's destroyed our M so many times & me. It feels insincere & I don't have it in me to survive any more of this.

You need and deserve support too!!! Is there a SAnon meeting near you so that you can work on your healing with spouses of SA's in a safe environment? I wish there was one near me but there isn't. There is only one CSAT near me and he said there are only 2 SA's here in my city that he knows of that he would allow to be sponsors to SA's... that's how little of a base of SA's there are here, so forget SAnon support :/ I hope that maybe there is some in your city?

Are there any hobbies you were into before D-Day? Any group activities? I find that I want to hide into my depressed shell a lot, and stay home and not do anything, but I'm hosting a dinner Friday for my female friends from work so that I can be social again. Some of me doesn't want to do it, but I need that motivation to make me clean my house, cook real food, and spend time with others. It also gives me something to look forward to when I'm not being a snail inside my shell of safety.

Are you doing things that are good for you? Maybe take a bubble bath tonight and tune out all the noise of kids and badchoice and chores/work/any other worries you have. Just enjoy some time that belongs to you and only you. You definitely deserve it.

I just read wjh's post and totally agree with all her comments.

Startingover- welcome to the MH thread. I'm sorry you find yourself here but we are a good group and I think we are all making progress in healing. Sometimes it's slow, but that's okay. There is good support here.

I dont have to courage to bring "it" up.

Sometimes a BS needs the WS to bring up the A, to show that they don't want to just rugsweep it. Obviously you're having a lot of trouble dealing with it, so you are not trying to rugsweep. In fact, it seems your WSO/BSO is rugsweeping. But my guess is that he is doing that so that he doesn't have to own up to his own issues and his A's to you.
He acts like he just didnt find out that I slept with my ex less than 3 weeks ago and its driving me crazy!! (He is what I call emotional unavailable-a issue that has caused several problems throughout our relationship)I want him to be mad, hurt, pissed or something! Besides the initial blowup he's as calm as can be as nothing happened.

Do you think any part of your A had to do with resentment at not getting acknowledgement/attention/validationfrom him? It seems like that may be an issue at the core of your relationship, so it might be worth exploring. Counseling together would be a really great way to explore this dynamic once you heal more. It sounds like you are still in crisis mode, which is totally normal this recent after D-Day.

All you can do is focus on your reaction/response. The only thing you can control is you and your actions. You cannot control his choices, actions, feelings, etc. This is something important to repeat over and over again as a WSO and as a BSO. It's really hard to accept and let go. I struggle with it myself, but I'm getting there. Reading and gaining more knowledge about my issues and my H's issues helps a lot. There are some great resources in The Healing Library on this website as well as many books commonly recommended to WS and BS here. These are the ones I am starting with, maybe they can help you:

-Codependent No More
-Boundaries in Marriage
-Mending a Shattered Heart (I am the spouse of a Sex Addict)
-Don't Call it Love (Another book for folks dealing with SA in marriage)
-Not Just Friends

There are many more that the others (especially veterans) on this thread can chime in and add, I'm sure. Keep reading and posting! We have great fellowship here on SI. It is great to surround yourself with others who are motivated to work towards healing and getting to a relationship with themselves and their spouse (or SO) that is healthy. Some end up S/D, some end up in R. But the important thing is to do the best and right thing for you!

((MH's))


"Is all that we see or seem
But a dream within a dream?"

Posts: 496 | Registered: Jun 2012 | From: The wind before the storm
girlfromipanema
♀ Member
Member # 30976
Happy  Posted: 9:37 PM, August 8th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I'm struggling recently with the idea of a revenge affair. Possibly domineering in similar situation. I would not have an affair with a man married to a loyal, unsuspecting wife.

Part of my "reasoning" is due to something my h told me after dday, which was that he wouldn't be upset if I had been with someone else.

It's a bit more complicated, but I'm on my damn phone...

initi


Married: 8 Years
Me: BS
Husband had LTA (5 years) with former close friend of mine.
Attempting Reconciliation

Posts: 220 | Registered: Jan 2011
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