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I Can Relate     Print Topic    
User Topic: Betrayed Men- Part 8
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Default  Posted: 11:37 AM, April 9th (Monday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

She is a little girl

I think of my WW the same way. She has said to me that when I talk to her I make her feel like a child. When I told my IC that he said, "ummm, so she feels like a child. There is some good information there."

Work on yourself man. WAL is spot on.

Bottom line detaching is best. We can't change them. What I can do is point out what I want the M to be. Then ask her if she is willing to work on that with me. Then watch and observe. There is no flow. I want measurable action at this point.

Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 10:52 AM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Wert - I am looking into ACT and think it is exactly what I could use, never heard of it before, posting the basic part of it for whoever else may need it or is bored and looking to google something.

Taken from Wikipedia

"ACT is developed within a pragmatic philosophy called functional contextualism. ACT is based on Relational Frame Theory (RFT), a comprehensive theory of language and cognition that is framed as an offshoot of behavior analysis. ACT differs from traditional cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) in that rather than trying to teach people to better control their thoughts, feelings, sensations, memories and other private events, ACT teaches them to "just notice," accept, and embrace their private events, especially previously unwanted ones. ACT helps the individual get in contact with a transcendent sense of self known as "self-as-context"—the you that is always there observing and experiencing and yet distinct from one's thoughts, feelings, sensations, and memories. ACT aims to help the individual clarify their personal values and to take action on them, bringing more vitality and meaning to their life in the process, increasing their psychological flexibility.[3]

While Western psychology has typically operated under the "healthy normality" assumption which states that by their nature, humans are psychologically healthy, ACT assumes, rather, that psychological processes of a normal human mind are often destructive.[5] The core conception of ACT is that psychological suffering is usually caused by experiential avoidance, cognitive entanglement, and resulting psychological rigidity that leads to a failure to take needed behavioral steps in accord with core values. As a simple way to summarize the model, ACT views the core of many problems to be due to the concepts represented in the acronym, FEAR:

-Fusion with your thoughts
-Evaluation of experience
-Avoidance of your experience
-Reason-giving for your behavior
And the healthy alternative is to ACT:

-Accept your reactions and be present
-Choose a valued direction
-Take action"

And it is one less step in the process!!

Wife Tired Girl
3 adult sons
"a wayward...annnnd just a tad betrayed."

Posts: 838 | Registered: Mar 2012 | From: Arizona
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Default  Posted: 1:10 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

For all my friends on this thread;
$40,000 and counting. Third trial date April 23.
She actually admitted, (on the stand), last Tuesday to being Romantically involved with another man, then named him and told my lawyer it has been going on since 2006. Actually, I think since 2004, doesn't matter.
Then this is what really hurt me. I had suspicions that my kids, 4 & 8 have been in contact with this low life boyfriend, she said, yes, he has been to our house.
It floored me, even though I pretty much knew already.
I was devastated again, but this time in court.(Remember, in NJ, there is no fault), thereby negating any behavior in the judges decision, but I'm hoping that after two days testimony from her and also her low life Father, that the judge has a clear picture of this family and her total, disengaged, immoral, unabashed,selfish, self-centered unconscionable, unremorseful piece of trash that she is.
My savings are gone, now dipping into my retirement to continue the process. Hopefully just another 2-3 days in court, but I'm told that everything can be appealed to the appellate division and I still have a civil lawsuit from her Father for a supposed payment for the new home construction, (long story).
What a mess, what a system, and what a horrible decision I made back in 2001.
I found it so ironic, while sitting in court, that I almost started to laugh out loud, but restrained from doing so, why, because I put my left on the Bible and said, 'I do'. The same two words I spoke in 2001. The same two words that got me into this mess. How ironic.
PS - 18 months, still in the same house, (yes, as noted, to continue to be close to my boys). Hopefully, the judge will be fair, grant me 50% joint legal custody, require the property to be sold and split the land preservaton money, ($700,000).
She plans to marry the boyfriend, have a kid with him and stay in the house. Sorry, maybe two out of three. That's it.
Still very painful. Everyone here knows the pain and we pray for each other everyday.
I pray for my boys and my health and all of you who are cheated, betrayed and hammered into a bloody heap.
Stay strong, don't waver, yes DETACH! and be careful.
GOD Bless,

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
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Default  Posted: 1:15 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


Thoughts going out to you. I HATE the legal system (and yes I am/was a trial lawyer...quit last Monday).

We are also a no fault state, but believe me, most judges will bend over backwards to get the "right" result. Hopefully you have one of those judges, and even if it is a no fault state, he will see where the fault does lie, and he will do the "right" thing.

Thoughts with you brother.

My Friends call me Wonderboy--That's Mr. SuperduperWonderboy to you Tred.

Posts: 1267 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Everett
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Default  Posted: 1:24 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Mypoorboys -

Wow. My best to you and your kids. Keep strong and well, to be blunt, fuck her.

I'm in a no fault state also. My sitch would not be pretty if I go down that path. Not a reason not to, but ugly non the less.

take care of yourself.

Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 1:58 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a buddy who has spent over $250k on two D's.

He says it costs so much because it is sooo worth it.

good luck MPB

time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
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Default  Posted: 2:18 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks everyone,
for the encouragement. At this point, obviously there is no turning back.
If there is one thing I've learned, don't cheap out on the lawyer, get a shark, pay the price and pray that the judge sees through the FOG!
Keep Chugging, and pray for all of us WSs

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
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Default  Posted: 5:30 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Any good divorce lawyer will tell you, regardless of no fault or not, "judges don't like boyfriends".

That's a fact. Good luck MPB and God bless.

BH-41 (me)
M 11yrs, together 14
DDay 3-30-2011
2 kids, 9 & 7
1 yr LTA w/MOM
Divorced 5-16-2013

Posts: 235 | Registered: May 2011 | From: Northeast
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Member # 34280
Default  Posted: 6:05 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

MPB, saying prayers for you, and for all of us who need them in dealing with this bullshit. I've heard it said that D is ridiculously expensive because it's worth it.

me- 39, American (BS)
her- 45, South American (WS)
1 child (my stepson)
EA discovered 3/10
D-day (PA discovered) 8/11
D-day II, April 8, 2013 (while overseas w/family)
Attempting R, despite relapse.

Posts: 126 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: At sea, away from family
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Default  Posted: 6:13 PM, April 10th (Tuesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I feel like this is small potatoes compared to MPB's torment, but I was wondering if any of you guys dealt with R with an emotionally immature wife. I've been waiting for fWW to really make an effort to show me that she's willing to R, and I've gotten what I asked for, what I was waiting for, and suddenly I'm not sure I have the energy to deal with her anymore. If you asked me yesterday if I had it in me to truly forgive her, I'd have said, 'sure, of course.' Today I find that I'm coming to the point where I have to put my money where my mouth is, and suddenly I've got doubts. I believe that it's possible she won't fuck around anymore, but I don't believe (yet) that she can make me happy. I have some self-doubt, and now, some fear for the future, just when I was getting comfortable not giving a fuck. Is that normal?

me- 39, American (BS)
her- 45, South American (WS)
1 child (my stepson)
EA discovered 3/10
D-day (PA discovered) 8/11
D-day II, April 8, 2013 (while overseas w/family)
Attempting R, despite relapse.

Posts: 126 | Registered: Dec 2011 | From: At sea, away from family
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Default  Posted: 7:17 AM, April 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have some self-doubt, and now, some fear for the future, just when I was getting comfortable not giving a fuck. Is that normal?

I can't tell you from a statistical perspective, but from mine I think it is normal. One thing my MC said to me was, "your wife, no matter what she says or does will never say of do it perfectly. You need to fix you."

If she really is giving all you have asked for and you are having self doubts, they are yours to deal with. Take time, be kind to yourself, clear your mind for a while and re-evaluate. Good to hear she is trying to put in the effort.

Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 7:32 AM, April 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I hope there's some follow-up...along the lines of;
"Romantically involved"?
"You mean "Physically", "Sexually"...correct?
"On what planet is it NOT moral turpitude to expose innocent children to an affair partner?"
(along with a bullet-point background summary of the OMPOS)
Don't remember the particulars,
- did POS abandon/cheat on his wife & kids? Can his XW/XSO lend a hand w/ details of aberrant behavior?
- any character stuff/criminal bckgrnd chk, drug test?

I'm just ideating out in the open - maybe fantasizing, heh...
that there might be, you know, some actual justice.
Praying for you.

wonderboy, should I be sorry you quit, or is there a new (and better) path? It's good to have a law-guy as part of the "team" here.
I've been tickling the idea of becoming a PI...sort of a cheater-finder guy...
Fine, maybe I'm just self-medicating

I drink for medicinal purposes, after all...
I'm sick of being sober.

westerly, having doubts is completely normal.
It sounds like you're pressuring yourself to forgive(?). There are tons of discussions on forgiveness on here as you can imagine.
- acceptance = acknowledge (that it happened)
acceptance does not mean "allow", in this context.

What worked for me was praying for the "they know not what they do" type of forgiveness. It was ok for me to admit that I couldn't do it, and to ask for it to be done for me in my heart.
Since I'm dealing with no empathy and a remorseless, villainizing, vindictive one, it has been difficult. But I accept it as a "process", and back off forcing myself, and let myself experience just "what is". Whatever is.
Pressure off.
Take your time to let your heart and gut and feelings settle down to peace and certainty.
I've tagged the following thread to my profile to fetch it easily, since it's not in the healing library:

Hope it helps.

Strength and honor men!

Posts: 6013 | Registered: Dec 2007 | From: texas
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Default  Posted: 1:09 PM, April 11th (Wednesday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I read your WWs posts. She's getting good advice, but don't get your hopes up (sorry, just wanted to be bluntly honest). This close to DDay, I had a regretful WW (if that) who wanted to "appear" to want to do the right thing. Of course, I had no inkling of her childish and selfish approach of maintaining the status quo and saving her ass. Being a madhatter made it worse.

I'd say your detachment is critical to maintain your sanity and getting a sense of self back. I did the opposite and now bear scars which I will carry for the rest of my life. Truth be told, I am envious that at least you are getting good advice so early into DDay and that you're seeing her true colors so early on. It took me a whole year to realise that this was someone I really did not know and who would consciously continue to harm me, the kids and the M for her selfish ends.

MPB))) you go bro. You're on a crusade to protect your kids no less and I wish and pray for the best outcome for you.

Posts: 739 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Default  Posted: 7:37 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I really do appreciate the male point of view in this forum - thanks.

I have been thinking about D a lot lately. The tough reality is I want to see my kids every day. That is my main focus. With that being true it follows that I stay.

With this as a given I really need to let go of outcome and focus completely on me. That is what I am doing and better and better everyday.

Hard sad truth is I very well may end up with a loveless marriage. Not a bad one all together but just not one that I would choose.

For me the stay for the kids may be as much about me as it is for them. Partly selfish? Yep. I hate this shit.

Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 7:49 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Man, I hear you wert, I just can't only see the kids every other weekend. Sometimes I think that would be worse than not seeing them at all.

time wounds all heels

Posts: 5359 | Registered: Mar 2008 | From: deliverance land
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Default  Posted: 8:06 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Sometimes I think that would be worse than not seeing them at all.

That is an incredibly selfish thought I have had as well. Flee. Start over. Our kids would be scared far worse than we can ever imagine. Must worse than D.

Posts: 1364 | Registered: Jan 2012
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Default  Posted: 8:08 AM, April 12th (Thursday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

Thanks my friends for being so supportive and informative.
Some of you have followed my journey,(fiasco), almost from the start and know how difficult it has been to just, 'hang in there'.
I've been blessed by GOD with the gift of life and I plan to live for as long as I can to guide my kids through life, teach them morals that are based upon ions of human existence, GOD, country, right from wrong to build character in them.
To do this, I must first take care of myself. That is one of the , '180' tips listed in the library that has given me the strength to persevere.
Yes, jjct, my good adviser, I hope that the judge does see the damage and I will follow under my testimony, (April 23), to paint a picture of this rouge cop boyfriend for what he is and the threat he poses to my kids.
At minimum, I'm hoping to get a, 'stay', to keep him away from my kids for a certain time frame.
Once the dust settles, I have intent to damage the cop by filing a formal complaint against him for , 'conduct unbecoming an officer'.
I have a feeling it would amount to a hill of beans, but there are two people with no conscience here.
If the louse gets his due coming to him, he will, at minimum, get a temporary suspension, thus negating any potential, future promotion.
People tell me, I have to be careful when dealing with a cop. Maybe, but when I get to that decision, I will make it with just as much commitment as I have employed during the last 18 months.
Yes, she probably would do the same thing to me, and most likely has, (limo driver texting her wee hrs. in the morn for months), but I don't give a rats' ass what or who this OM is. It is what he has contributed to, knowingly screwing a married woman with young kids, then destroying the family.
GOD willing, there will be justice handed out. I pray not for vengeance. I ask only that there be consequence to one's actions, behaviour. Without it, our society will just continue to waste away.
Maybe that's the plan, ie. another Sodom and Gemmorah.
GOD give us strength to endure the unendurable,protect your precepts, live by your commandments, and honor those that are honorable.
GOD Bless all,

Posts: 176 | Registered: Aug 2011 | From: New Brunswick, New Jersey
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Default  Posted: 5:32 PM, April 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

I have a question for the guys in R. My WW had a 3 month EA which had a one night stand in it.

thats the thread started elsewhere. Anyone in a similar situation? How do you deal with the not knowing?

I realize that R takes a long time to get to, but unfortunately there is a pregnancy complicating everything. I am planning on telling her that I won't raise another mans child. I feel like I need the solid answer on this stuff SOON!! I honestly feel like we could come out stronger on the other side of this. And I know that it's possible. I guess I just need to hear from other guys that it's possible. i don't know. the people on the other thread seem too bitter over their own situations to be straightforward.

Her: WW(29)
Married 1 1/2 years together for 5
D-Day: 4/11/12

Posts: 27 | Registered: Apr 2012
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Default  Posted: 10:01 PM, April 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage


I think you need to get together with your WW and tell her how it is, how you feel, and what you expect. Be the better person and be totally honest.

Tell her, I cannot deal with raising OM's child, and maybe we should just call it a day and go our seperate ways.

I'm with you on that one. I made the FWW get tested for STD's and pregency, and told her if she got pregnated by the OM, we were done.

[This message edited by jimbo25319 at 10:04 PM, April 15th (Sunday)]

Posts: 480 | Registered: Apr 2011 | From: Maryland
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Default  Posted: 10:28 PM, April 15th (Sunday), 2012View ProfileEdit MessagePrivate MessageHomepage

You'd better be damned sure that raising OM's baby is a dealbreaker for you before you decide to give recon a go, because I can tell you this -- if she goes ahead with an abortion as a prerequisite for getting to stay in the marriage, she's going to resent the hell out of that requirement, and much sooner than you think.

Aborting the OM's baby, especially if he wants her to keep it, is going to forge a trauma bond between them that points squarely at you as their mutual abuser. You killed their baby.

Having said that, I'd make aborting the baby a definite requirement if I was dead set on staying in the relationship. I wouldn't raise some other guy's kid, either. (Not really. I'd adopt a kid. I'd marry a woman why had kids. I would not raise some OM's bastard.)

I mean, if you *can* wrap your head around that -- and I've seen a few guys around here do it -- good on you. You're a better man than I am. Or you've figured out a way to get half of his income in CS, which is pretty good revenge for 20 some odd years.

I think you can come out with a stronger relationship after infidelity, but a great deal of that hinges on whether or not your wife can do the sorts of work on herself necessary to pull her weight in an adult relationship. It's amazing how much better marriages get when one person isn't getting cornholed on a regular basis by an OP and invest themselves in the relationship.

I do have to tell you that I agree with some of the posters on your previous thread. The agrument that she got pregnant after one sexual encounter with a multi-month EA and because the condom broke is almost always a complete line of shit. She's very likely minimizing to cover her ass, because if she can pawn it off as essentially an ONS gone wrong, she can wheedle you into accepting the baby and accepting the OM as the father, and thus a fixture in your life. It's a cake-eating mentality.

If you do end up deciding to work this out and keep the baby, you need to start working now towards getting yourself kept off the birth certificate and protecting yourself financially in the event that baby-mommy and baby-daddy decide to form their own family unit in the future. You do not want to end up paying this fuckhead CS for the next 20 years to raise his own kid because you decided to give your cheating wife the benefit of the doubt. That would be a tragedy. It sounds all noble and reconcilation-y when your head is a fucked up with the trauma of discovery and you still believe you're married to a wonderful woman who made a little mistake, but it sucks donkey balls in real life when you're living in a shithole apartment and financing their family vacations to Vegas.

Machiavellian idiot savant

Posts: 6687 | Registered: Apr 2007 | From: Indiana
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